New M6500 Discussion Thread

Ok, there's something wrong here. Obviously I ran into some kind of false friend, because what dict.leo.org told me about "not to blame so." makes sense if you want to say that you don't accuse so. to do sth. It seems like this is not true.
So I'm very sorry for that mistake. I do not say that you're lying, I only say that there is contradicting data on that issue. I hope you'll accept that apology.

Ok, let's try it the other way around: This little program reads and prints the DMI tables of the BIOS - nothing more, nothing less. I checked the source code if there's some bug that might only occur at certain amounts of RAM (especially 16/32GB) but I found none. The program will run into trouble if you have 128GB of RAM or more, but even then it will say "I don't know" instead of returning wrong values. So the only explanation I see is, that the DMI tables of the M6500 actually report 16GB.

You're partly right. I don't plan to purchase an M6500 with that amount of RAM, but according to you someone deos. If I were this one and I had another M6500 at hand, I'd check it. And if there is something odd I'd like to know the reason. At least that's what my company does when new hardware is bought. I don't want to fight, but ths issue bugs me. Why is it so hard for you to consider that there might be a wrong entry in that DMI table?

Sorry, but Dell does exactly that. Dell advertises the M6500 to be available with RHEL, but doesn't sell them with it.

 

Went to the dmidecode site. It warns "Beware that DMI data have proven to be too unreliable to be blindly trusted. Dmidecode does not scan your hardware, it only reports what the BIOS told it to." Under Bugs it says "More often than not, information contained in the DMI tables is inaccurate, incomplete or simply wrong. "

My guess is that the bios info was entered when the largest SODIMM available was 4gb. My other guess is that if the machine works with 8gb DIMMS, and the number of users likely to use dmidecode is small, then the benefit to risk ratio of updating the BIOS shows more risk of unintended consequences than there is benefit in correcting a value in the DMI info.

It could also be that with the way the Dell is set up to use 4 slots, dmidecode misreads the amount of MAX system RAM even though it gets the number of slots right.

I can see where you are coming from, but the argument is more academic than practical. If there are known machines using 32gb of RAM with Bios A04, then the M6500 can use up to 32gb of RAM. The tough part is verifying things because the 8gb sticks of RAM are quite expensive. It might be a couple of years before prices fall enough for us "normal" people to be able to afford it. Until then, we have to wait for one of the oil & gas industry M6500 super users to actually post here.

 

To be clear, my view is your contributions to this forum are very helpful and necessary. Many times you step in and provide accurate information or guidance.

That said, you are one employee of a large organization. When you make broad claims about the performance of your company, be prepared for some feedback.

Here is an example of Dell advertising a configuration they do not stand behind:

Dell Precision M4500 Mobile Workstation Details | Dell

Dell has advertised the RGB LED for the M4500 since it was announced. But, to my knowledge, the RGB is not and never has been available. If one advances a few web pages and studies the tech spec tabs, the info about displays is ambiguous (not specific). That is no oversight on Dell's part.

If helpful, I can post M4500 product brochures which list the RGB.

The production status Order Details info posted on Dell's web site for my order described my display as:

"15.6" HD+ (1600 x 900) Wide View Anti-Glare RGB LED Display for M4500"

If you need proof, I can send it privately.

This order was placed several months ago, maybe things have changed for what concerns the Order Details info. But, at the time, my experience was not unique. Many of us were misled. Even today, the RGB is still advertised on the M4500.

If I am wrong about the above, please correct me. I will be pleased to acknowledge my error.

I also think Dell should explain the severe functional limitations of the fingerprint reader on its laptops. Customers are left with expectations which are not fulfilled.

As far as standing behind the product, I purchased several Latitude D610's and D810's which had severe problems with the touchpad. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it was jerky, sometimes it would freeze and not respond for several seconds. In spite of numerous BIOS and driver updates, the problem was never fixed on XP. IOW, Dell did not stand behind the product. I also had many Optiplex desktops which failed because of motherboard capacitor problems; getting Dell to repair the units was always a major hassle. In spite of all the contact information Dell collected about me, I was never contacted about the capacitor problem. Yet I always receive a healthy amount of Dell advertising via electronic and snail mail. Lastly, almost everything I've purchased from the outlet this year has been defective. Most of the symptoms show up quickly. The product is not being tested effectively by Dell. Built-in diagnostics don't detect the errors. I find it takes hours of my personal time to simply return defective product and get good product from the outlet.

 

Thanks for the clarification! I must have missed that. Up to now all machines where I could physically check the maximum RAM reported the same value via DMI. Seems like I've just been lucky so far.

Sounds reasonable.

No. The value that dmidecode reports as maximum capacity is not derived from any other data but simply stored as an independent number in kB. So it has nothing to do with the number of slots or the size of actually mounted DIMMs.

Given the missing reliablility of that data I agree. But it would still be nice to fix this with the next BIOS.

 

Speaking of fingerprint reader issues ... this has been an issue for me since I've had my M6500 and my $99 FIPS fingerprint reader.

I completely reinstalled my OS yesterday and created a dual boot with Win 7 32 && Win 7 64;

My reasoning was that I saw the "Dell ControlVault w/o Fingerprint Sensor" in device manager, and through exhaustive research found that the Wave Embassy Suite doesn't have 64bit support except for preboot management

I finally got a Dell rep to remote into my system yesterday after the clean install (on the 32bit OS) and after about 3 hours of installing, updating, uninstalling, and reinstalling, he determined with my help (and this blog article) that my fingerprint reader is defective.

I am waiting now at my office for a Dell tech to come replace it.

Notwithstanding all this and other M6500 issues, there is still no 64bit support for using the fingerprint for website passwords, which is a severe limitation of the technology and kind of kills the "cool factor" of the whole idea.

Anyway I wanted to post about this here, in case anyone's had the same issues (I know some people have had same issues from a few months ago when I posted here trying to figure this out), if you have the FIPS fingerprint reader and go to Device Manager, and see "Dell ControlVault w/o Fingerprint Sensor" that it may be a hardware issue with the cable routing of the M6500.

Hopefully this saves someone a lot of frustrating head beating.

 

Well, the dell tech just left and we are even more perplexed.

He replaced the hinge cover with the FIPS fingerprint reader in it and we powered on the machine to test it out.

Not only does the ControlVault still not see the reader, but now as soon as machine does the initial memory test, the new fingerprint reader gets EXTREMELY hot to the touch. Which, ironically, would make it very hard to produce a stable fingerprint!

But that doesn't matter because after uninstalling and reinstalling all drivers, it still says "w/o Fingerprint Sensor".

Something is terribly wrong and I would like to know if anyone has a FIPS fingerprint sensor and actually uses it and it actually works...

Regardless, the Dell tech has decided that the replacement hinge cover and fingerprint reader is faulty, and that the little cable which runs under the keyboard into the fingerprint reader might also be faulty. They will be replacing both items on Monday.

Now we're back to the old panel which, while still not being operational, at least won't burn me if I accidentally touch it!

 

I've used my fips reader in Win7 with control vault for both preboot and windows login, but the broadcom chip on the other side of the reader itself won't let it integrate with anything beyond controlvault from what I've read. If I'd have known this, I probably would've opted for the cheaper option myself to get the full functionality of Win7's biometric options.

Unless broadcom themselves do something about their subpar support, I don't think you'll ever have options for using the reader for anything but logging into the machine.

Bottom line it though, it _did_ in fact work for me for authenticating to the TPM module pre windows and into windows in 64 bit win7. At the moment, I only use it for preboot authentication, though.

 

I have one of them, but since it is completely and utterly useless in the configuration Dell ships it, I don't use it, and I uninstalled that POS Wave Embassy software. The fingerprint reader situation in these top-of-the-line machines is a scandal, plain and simple.

 

A new M6500 user who opted, in a moment of doubt, to keep his new purchase when those around him were mac'ing up I'm frustrated to find that when I use AutoCAD with anything more than a small sized dwg I get almost unmanagable mouse lag on the screen. I spent a small fortune on a top end laptop to improve performance whereas here I am just seeing it worse than on my supposedly less well specced desktop. I've tried drivers. The Firepro card is recognized as a good choice for AutoCAD 2011 so what the hell is going on? Am I going to have to sell this otherwise lovely machine and go for the damn mac after all, because I can't use it for it's intended purpose like this?

 

Glad to know that it works for you - that means that it's at least possible and there is hope for me. I am hoping that the dell tech who comes out on Monday will have a working replacement hinge cover for me since this most definitely is a hardware issue at this point.

I read all the same info and was hoping a dual boot system with 32/64 would allow me to boot into the 32bit mode to do online banking and use my fingerprint reader, so I will see.

Maybe if we all started a Website dedicated to the fingerprint reader issues on dell machines it would get a lot of traffic and get Dell or Broadcom to develop some 64 bit drivers and stop using the crap 3rd party software they have going on. Windows 7 comes with excellent biometric device support and it doesn't make sense to not use the technology.

[edit - I would contribute my personal development time as well as host the site in the infancy stages until traffic got too expensive ... I mean, if such an idea were to come to pass or anything]

[edit2 - I registered " [ DellFingerPrintReaderNotWorking.com ] just now.. there seem to be a lot of issues with this. I would like to create a forum/comment based site where people can:
1. Vent frustrations with fingerprint readers
2. Tell their stories
3. Enter their company info, number of employees using dell, and approximate the number of Dell computers (and average purchase price) that their company did not purchase as a direct result of the fingerprint issues. In a secure business environment these features are a big deal and expected to work.]

If we can succeed in visually, statistically demonstrating to Dell how much money they have been losing since having their entire line of top-end laptops not work for most people, perhaps it would get some of the senior management to allocate the resources to develop proper Win7 integrated drivers that would at least pass through the UPEK or Authentec device to the system instead of blocking it, I think we may be on to somethiing.

Judging by forums here and elsewhere there might be enough interest here:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com...e/thread/8edb3bb6-1d5f-419e-b731-3aab62c88632

http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaView?id=087700000000XtBAAU

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=413346


They can take our lives...

They can take our high tech gadgets...

But they can never take...

Our ... fingerprints!!!

<cut to braveheart music>