Dell Precision M6700 Owners Thread

Well, if it's a different port, then the Intel GPU is obviously bypassed, but this is a more expensive solution for Dell as they need to order motherboards which support this extra connection.

I presume there is a difference in connectors between the IPS screen and the regular hence they couldn't route it through the IGP conenction while disabling the IGP (e.g. like the Optimus option in BIOS)?

 

We're splitting hairs here. TRIM the function doesn't reduce writes, but TRIM the command reduces writes by disabling features in Windows that excessively write to MLC SSD's as well as invoking the TRIM function.
Sorry I didn't have the time to find the Technet brief for exactly what the trim commands encompasses. I will post a link when found.

Gotta go - someone said I had promised to only take a minute to reply. I'm in trouble now

Edit: Been released from chains for a moment
There are HDD RAID configurations for Data storage, if I recall MoldCad is using this setup. I've only read about this setup and have never used RAID striping so I don't know how it really works for something like this. Obviously if money outlay is a concern but some speed (always ) is required then SSD/HDD setup is good. If heat and noise are the concern and money is no problem then a secondary large SSD might help there - but they do get somewhat warm and the machine itself is not always perfectly quiet - there are 2 fans cooling the box. Also, if you're wealthy enough for both there's SSD RAID or SLC SSD.

There are a multitude of configurations available for the modest and the not so modest. I don't think anyone should spend money for an SSD and put it in a HDD/SSD setup on an M Precision.
For creative programs such as Photoshop, I'd be interested in someone explaining to me how that would be beneficial because I've used both on an M6600 and can't tell the difference therefore discounting the need for a secondary MLC SSD.

Just for fun, do you know what the acronym PCMCIA means? Personal Computer Memory Card International Association?

Nope,

Spoiler

People can't memorize computer industry acronyms

P.S. I write like I'm talking face to face. It may come across harsh - I don't know (biased), but I'm trying to do better.

BTW, I knew you were going to hit me with that "TRIM" not being fully explained but literally she was screaming for me to get off the computer and back to the T.V. program. I'd wandered off. She hates it when I come back and rewind.

 

Yes, it is a different connector, presumably to support the 10-bit signal. (There are photos... somewhere deep in the M6600 thread. )

 

I'd like that, anything that can help me expand my knowledge is welcome. And yeah we're splitting hairs, but the important thing is that we agree on what is most important to put on the SSD: The OS and programs.

Trust me, if i had the money, i'd be running a 4x256GB RAID 10, but i don't. I do have a few older smaller capacity SSDs, but the problem is mainly the capacity. So for now, i'll be using a 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe (already have it on hand) and the HDD that came with the laptop, i'll get another SSD when windows 8 comes out probably.

Didn't take any offense, don't worry.

Gotta keep the miss happy, first, priorities.

 

First of all, Photoshop isn't really the critical app, but Adobe Premiere video editing software is much more critical regarding swap files. Are you saying that putting the Premiere swap files on a SSD drive with nothing else on it would theoretically slow down the app compared to letting it just use the single primary 750GB HD?

 

RV, I do now have to be careful here because I'm not a computer hardware engineer. I'll have to leave the math to @tijo and the video editing/math to @bokeh. MLC SSD's are different from SLC SSD's and RAM. On top of reducing writes for longevity and page clearing TRIM - there is also heavy duty error correction for the way in which MLC SSD stores electrons. Unfettered access to a large secondary SSD, i.e., large amounts of clean adjacent sectors, would probably be faster though at some cost and longevity to be determined later.
Anything >=M6600 will accomodate a lot of different drive configurations. Most of my post was aimed at what drive you would have in the build and what the plan was after it was received. Having some spares in the toolbox allows some flexibilty in the initial build then in testing; new large SSD's aren't cheap. Please do let us know the results of any empirical testing that is done, as it would add to the knowledge base here.

 

If you need the swap file often, then a SSD will make a difference vs a HDD, it will still be slow compared to RAM though so max the RAM before you get a SSD. As for the speeds:

500GB 7200RPM​	64GB SSD SATA 3​
128GB SSD SATA 2​	240GB SSD SATA 3​

If you are using the swap often on a 256GB SSD, then the writes will also feel faster, but if you use a low capacity SSD, the sequential writes won't be that much faster. Randoms are undeniably faster. In the end using the SSD for the swap file may or may not have an impact depending on capacity, the type of workload and the free space on the drive. Here's a part on what happens if garbage collection can't keep up with writes: AnandTech - The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ.

Nicely said. Some guys at the xtremesystem forums have been abusing SSDs to test longevity: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm. Highly technical stuff disclaimer, i understand some of it but not all. I'm not a computer engineer either, my background is in chemical engineering so once you hit a certain level of technicality, there is stuff i'm not entirely familiar with (i'm getting there).

If your main program is Premiere, you'd have to test yourself or ask someone who tried it. However, if you compare the speed to RAM access, even a SSD will feel like things slow down to a crawl, less of a crawl than a HDD, but still slow. Using the swap file for finite elements sure feels slow regardless of whether it's a SSD or a HDD.

 

I hope not. Separating the application from the files is critical to the workflow. That's whether you're using an SSD, conventional HDDs not a combination.

However, it's not until you move to After Effects that balancing this combination becomes the most critical for speed and efficiency. The closer you can get to faster access for the performance cache the better.

 

That makes sense. How is the standard FHD display connected to the mainboard: eDP or LVDS?

Without knowing more about how everything is connected, I wonder if the panel could take an 8-bit input. It is possible that the entire output chain is pure 10-bit from the graphics card to the display (unlike HP's workstation line) without any ability for the panel to accept any other input.

I've read of people putting in GeForce cards into the MXM slot of the M6600. Last I checked, the GeForce cards don't have 10-bit output enabled either at the hardware or driver level but if those IPS panels worked then I'd begin to wonder. If someone has a LVDS to eDP convertor then we could test this out.

There was some discussion at last year's IDF (2011) that spoke of Panel Self-Refresh technology coming to Ivy Bridge's integrated GPU. The feature would work only through displays connected to the iGPU via eDP. Someone could always pull the discrete graphics card out and see where the iGPU video output goes. Obviously I don't know how Dell is detecting the presence of the IPS panel to disable Optimus in the BIOS so I could be totally wrong.

Bokeh's M6600 and M6700 threads have pictures of the motherboards having both connectors. I've seen Alienware systems with both eDP and LVDS as well. Sure it might be more expensive to have 2 connectors but it allows for more panel options.

If I understand LVDS correctly then it is only a physical layer standard. The problem is driving a 1080p panel at 8-bit color requires about 3Gbps of bandwidth which exceed that of a 4-pair LVDS interface. To remedy this there is a more complex connector with far more wires to deliver 10-bit and 12-bit color at higher resolutions but there are other electrical issues (cross talk, etc.) that pop up. These can be solved but it costs money.

DisplayPort is a license-free, royalty-free, digital interconnect so it has a lot of backing by industry. It also supports the latest powersaving features and has enough bandwidth for high-resolution and 10/12 bit panels. This is probably why eDP was used for the 10-bit IPS panel on the M6700 over LVDS. eDP is the future internal laptop display connector.

My point is that I don't think there is any evidence that Intel's HD 4000 iGPU won't work over eDP. There are other laptops that use Intel's iGPU with eDP. We just need Dell to chime in as to why this limitation exists. Is it a panel limitation? Is it a motherboard trace limitation (iGPU signal isn't routed to eDP but is to LVDS) or something else? For nearly doubling battery life on the go, I'd be willing to deal with 8-bit color on a 10-bit panel as long as I could pick it in the BIOS (discrete GPU vs. integrated GPU vs. Optimus).

 

Well, I ended up changing my mind and ordered the M4700 to get more power within my budget. I will mostly be using an external monitor anyway. I will do some video rendering with and without the SSD after I install at least 16GB RAM (ordered with 8GB). I'll let you know if I feel any difference.

Thanks to everyone for the input!