*** Official Clevo X170KM-G/Sager NP9672M Owner's Lounge ***

Awesome. I've got one in the system right now, running without a hitch.. so far.

 

[QUOTE="Also, will it support PCIe 4.0 ssd with 11th gen cpus? I see MXM is 4.0, so should be the same for ssd)[/QUOTE]

It does indeed, PCIe 4.0 NVME drive installed and Windows running on it with 11th Gen. 10th Gen CPU does not see the drive there to boot from, so it must be moved over to the other side to boot.

 

Hello Guys!

As everyone I'm looking to upgrade my aging gaming laptop to something that lasts like 5 years of gaming.

With that in mind I'm trying to land on a decision on which CPU to choose for the 3080 for the X170km-g. The main purpose of the machine would be gaming and I was wondering which CPU to choose from the dizzying amount of intel options.

At the same time (not necessarily Clevo related), I'm kinda wondering if it would worth it to wait for the AMD mobile graphics cards, that are supposed to come out in a quarter or two, seeing the ultra gimped 3000 series mobile gpu-s of this hardware cycle.

I'm also wondering how would a X170km-g compare to the 3080 equipped XMG NEO 17/Tongfang GM7ZG8M laptops on wattage available for the GPU/Performance. (anyone aware any comparison/tests between these two?)

Thanks for your input!

 

You would be much better off with this if you want to get 5 years out of it. AMD won't bring anything amazing to notebook graphics and, again, if your goal is getting 5 years out of it, AMD GPUs do not have a good durability track record.

 

LOL

I literally threw my back out yesterday, while depositing the very hefty payment check for my new KM-G.

Not kidding. It still hurts.

And now I am getting slight buyers remorse. I just saw an ad for the new Alienware Aurora R12 gaming desktop. For ~3300 USD, you get a 11900KF, 32 gigs, a 2 TB SSD, and YES, the desktop 3080.

But I love gaming laptops. Half the fun is being able to show it to your friends.

The real question is, am I insane enough to waste money by buying both...

The voices in my head say...yes.

 

How much was your X170KM config and who did you order it from?

As far as desktop vs. laptop, obviously the desktop will be better performance and value if you do not need portability. Although find a better brand than Alienware if going that route.

 

Purchased from HIDEvolution
Price before taxes and shipping and before 2.5% cash discount=

4319 USD

Edit: That is before the cash discount.

EVOC High Performance Systems X1702L (X170KM-G) - 17.3" FHD 144Hz G-Sync - i9-11900K - RTX 3080
LCD Panel
17.3” Matte FHD (1920 x 1080) 144Hz, 72% NTSC, Wide View Angle, G-Sync
Display Warranty
30 Days Zero Defective Pixel Warranty (perfect panel guarantee)
Prema Custom BIOS
Prema Custom BIOS - Latest Updated Version once available
Video Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3080 w/ 16 GB GDDR6 (Max TGP 165W)
Processor
Intel® 11th Generation Rocket Lake i9-11900K 8 Core - 16 Thread Processor, 3.5 GHz (Max Frequency 5.3 GHz), 16 MB Smart Cache
Thermal Interface Materials
Gelid GC Extreme on CPU + GPU, and Fujipoly Extreme Thermal Pads on heat sensitive surfaces
Memory
32 GB Dual Channel DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 16 GB) - Speeds subject to system capability - installed by HIDevolution -
RAID Options
no RAID (1st drive as primary boot drive, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th drives as storage drives)
M.2 PCIe SSD Slot 1
Samsung 980 Pro 2 TB M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe 3D-VNAND SSD - Up to 7,000 MB/s Read - 5,100 MB/s Write
Wireless Cards
Intel® Dual Band Wireless Wi-Fi 6 AX201 w/ Bluetooth® M.2
Operating System
Windows® 10 Pro
Power Adapter
2 x Dual Full Range 280W AC Adapter
Keyboard Language
U.S. English

 

I made jokes about the high price, but I’m satisfied with the price, at least as far as HID Evolution is concerned.

Two things I don’t like:

1. Cleve used to have a 1440p panel, haven’t seen that in a long time.

2. I realize that putting top of the line hardware in a laptop is hard, but I still think Nvidia isn’t quite giving us the best performance and value.

But neither of those have to do with HID Evolution. I think their prices are fair and competitive.

Edit: HID Evolution managed to give me everything I wanted, including Prema Bios, and I stayed within my budget, so Kudos to them.

 

That would be a truly TRAGIC mistake and a much better reason for remorse. Alienware is never a good option. Their products are crippled, including desktops. You'd be much better off building your own or buying from iBuyPower or CyberPower (they use off-shelf components like you would building your own) and avoid all of the heartache associated with locked down proprietary trash from Dell/Alienware. Horrible option in many ways. They inhibit way too much user freedom to be posing as a source of high performance products, especially on the desktop side. They also do not support hardware upgrades. Just don't... you'll be sorry.

 

The Man. The Myth. The LEGEND.

The main reason why I was excited about the Aurora was because they actually have the 3080 and it doesn’t cost 2400 dollars all by itself.

I’ve never actually owned any of their products.

But the voices in my head are silent now. Thx.

 

The upside of the 11900k is it will most likely will be better binned than the 11700k and clock for clock may run cooler at a given frequency with some tweaking if you find a curve that is acceptable.

With the power and heat the 11th gen series can produce when pushed, I would be looking to find that sweet spot for optimal performance vs thermals / power.

 

It does have better compression technology.

 

Glad we got that sorted out.
My heart sinks when I hear that somebody bought an Alienware desktop as I consider all locked down product completely unnecessary in the desktop world.

 

Hi!
After seeing that Tongfang now allows dynamic boost to be disabled and the extra tgp to be added to the vga, I have to ask, does the KM also support this ? Does Clevo allow dynanic boost to be disabled and thus increasing the tgp so that the 3080 would run as 165W all the time instead of 150W+15W db ?

 

The Tongfang boost disablement might be a bug showing incorrect data, I think it needs to be tested extensively or get confirmed by the vendor for us to be sure.

 

Dear All,

I was thinking about the current, very special time within the hardware cycle and I was pondering the decision to shell out cash for a KM-G or to go with something like a Tongfang with a 3080.

My dilemma is that the Clevo and its modular, upgradeable nature might be unnecessary at this point, as with Alder Lake coming later this year, the km-g's upgradeability will stop with the loathed Intel 11900k. Since we have no idea about Clevo's Q3 (and beyond) plans with the new Intel architecture, we might end up in a situation where something like the KM-G will not be upgradeable beyond the 11th gen Intel generation.

This would mean that if I must buy a new gaming laptop before Alder Lake, it might be a waste of money as Clevo's upgradeability on the processor front will hit a hard stop after the 11900k

I wonder what you guys think about this.

Thx!

 

I am not sure that banking on the idea that next gen is actually going to be an upgrade makes good sense. We are seeing nonsense from Intel and AMD now. AMD is adding integrated graphics crap on their desktop 5000-series CPUs that already don't overclock worth a damn. Intel dropped 2 cores and 4 threads on their i9 going from 10th to 11th gen. They made the 11900K harder to delid than the 10900K on top of that (with the SMDs that can be broken off if extreme caution is not exercised, and needing to heat it in the oven to melt the solder.) So, I am thinking you need to strike while the iron is hot. The future has the potential to be extremely disappointing. To think otherwise seems overly optimistic.

 

Good point!

That makes me think if the km-g has any advantage at this point over Tongfang's BGA models for a gaming use case.

Looking at the below 3dmark ladder the km-g (even with Premas voodoo), and the tongfang models based on the bga AMD 5900HX are pretty close unless you really want that minimal advantage.

https://www.3dmark.com/search?_ga=2...ck=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

Additionally as much as I dismiss marketing faff, Intel is making very bold promises about the Alder Lake architecture and compares it with the glory days of the Core architecture debut that resulted in a very significant CPU power increase.

Decisions..decisions..

ps: That video made my inner engineer scream and shiver when I've seen it originally.

 

No comparison. The TongFang is a BGA turdbook with the CPU and GPU soldered to the mobo, fewer storage options, fewer RAM slots, fewer ports on the chassis, a CPU that is gimped on TDP and wouldn't overclock well even if it were not.

I'm not saying the TongFang is super-horrible compared to other turdbooks, because it is not and they offer better value than the other disposable trash options. I own a TongFang turdbook and it was purchased because it was the best super-cheap option. But, it is not even close to being in the same league as the X170. The only reason to consider buying the TongFang would be that it costs less than half as much and could be replaced in a year or two if something better surfaces. That is like comparing a Shelby Mustang or Challenger SRT Hellcat (X170) to a Hyundai Veloster. The X170 will tear its head off and poop down it's neck. It can be easily repaired and the turdbook has a throw-away mobo with the CPU and GPU soldered to it.

 

Normally I would completely agree with you.

However at this point of the hardware cycle with a new socket/mobo/ram generation coming in 2-3 quarters I wonder if the BGA throwaway disadvantage is as significant as it sounds. For the new generation stuff Clevo will have to replace the mobo later this year anyway would be my point.

 

No clevo is against it.

Wrong it's not.
It's a permanent boost.

 

Thanks for confirming, that is quite significant!

 

You are making a number of assumptions here that I would not bank on:

1. Alder Lake will be great - will it really and when will it be great? next year is definitely a possibility
2. Clevo will have a socketed Alder Lake model fast - we do not know that either, I would not necessarily expect something this year

Some more thoughts regarding KM-G vs. all the AMD / turdbook options:

KM-G is modular and very easy to maintain, upgrade and repair, this deserves my support
KM-G has 2 Thunderbolt ports, 4 SSD slots and 4 RAM slots, I have not seen an AMD model that has ANY of that
KM-G has massive connectivity for people with multiple monitors and peripherals
KM-G is really surprisingly quiet in everyday non-extreme use, that is stock and without too much effort
KM-G is ideal for overclocking, benching and tinkering in general if you like that - I do very much

in short KM-G is awesome now and really cool while the TongFang is just another (admittably pretty acceptable) turdbook

Going beyond the pure consideration of which model one should get I have an issue with AMD not supporting socketed CPUs in laptops and I refuse to support that. A recent quote over here from XMG Tom was pretty telling. I also do not like to not have a Thunderbolt connection that I am not sure we will see in AMD powered laptops anytime soon even though it is now possible to offer AMD and Thunderbolt.

Even if I was into soldered AMD CPUs I would be very pissed off that their 12 and 16 core options of the 5xxx series are not available in laptops. With not even a high end soldered extravaganza available like Asus once produced with the GX800 they have NOTHING that excites me, there is not even something there to make fun of.

As for TongFang they are a good company from what it looks like and maybe they would even like to build a proper laptop with socketed CPU and GPU and the works. I wish them best of luck for that but currently there is only Clevo that is left standing in the high end laptop / modular DTR segment.

 

Thanks for your extensive explanation.

Now I'm debating which Intel CPU to get for the km-g and I'm wondering if an overclocked 11600k would be significantly different than a 10900k or an 11900k for gaming.

 

For gaming the i5 is the best price/performance value.
And tbh in gaming an overclocked i5 is doing the same as an i7 counterpart, in some cases even as an I9.

 

It really depends on the types of games you play. If you primarily play open world and/or RTS and/or sandbox games, go for higher core count CPUs such as the 11700K, 11900K, or 10900K.

If you primarily play FPS games or anything else, even a quad core is still really good (even for high framerate gaming at 144 fps), and will remain good for everything else for a while. In that case, get an 11600K.

My Ranger's i7 4930MX is still good for 120 fps in any game that isn't an open world , RTS, or sandbox game, and it's a 4th gen CPU. Since I primarily play FPS and TPS games, it'll last a good while longer. For any open world game it can't handle, my desktop's i7 7700K does 144 fps in them fine.

 

Just testing what the bare minimum clocks where to take the pole position.

We are striving to inspire more people to bench and encourage them to make the best out of their hardware, instead of discouraging others with massive day one runs this early in the hardware cycle.

We are doing it also with AMD:

Spoiler

FS:

https://www.3dmark.com/search#advanced?test=fs P&cpuId=2792&gpuId=1372&gpuCount=0&deviceType=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=overallScore&hofMode=true&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

TS: https://www.3dmark.com/search#advanced?test=spy P&cpuId=2792&gpuId=1372&gpuCount=0&deviceType=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=overallScore&hofMode=true&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

Spoiler

 

Eh, quad cores def can’t maintain 144 in more recent AAA shooters like Battlefield and Warzone.

 

Not in the easily multithreaded games.

 

As a dedicated DTR user myself I must say that nothing really excites me in this generation. 'Modularity' means little if the socket becomes outdated by the end of the year and MXM upgrades are scarce and pricey. 'Performance' is relative when BGA cpus such as the 5900HX come close to (and even beat depending on the application) Intel desktop cpus; and MXM gpus have the same TGP and performance as soldered ones. I don't get enthusiastic by a 300hz refresh screen, but I'm really tempted by decent QHD at 165.

I don't bench, I play games, and I might capitulate this year and go for Tongfang until the time is ripe to go DTR again.

 

Or you can do what I did. Have a desktop for truly intensive tasks like playing Cyberpunk 2077, and a cheap ($1k is relatively cheap) laptop to use for work and less intensive games. Priority over hardware upgrades go the desktop; priority over which trash can to toss my BGA laptop when it goes to laptop Nirvana is in discussion. My P870TM is in a laptop bag, in a closet, where its fans stay nice and quiet. Thermals are really good too (~25 deg C for both the 2080 and 9900K).

 

Hi Bro. Nice benchies.

Buying cheap trash that you can toss into a dumpster is a justifiable use of BGA turdbooks. That's where they ultimately belong.

But, it's a shame to leave that P870 monsterbook cooped up in the closet. He needs to be turned loose to reign hellfire onto the peasants that walk in the garden of his turbulence.

 

This is my dilemma here too!

The culmination of the absolutely lackluster 11th gen from Intel and the crazy crazy performance of AMD's 5900HX makes this particular choice very hard.

You have the absolutely godly KM-G chassis just coming out with an end of life socket, and trash 11th gen Intel offerings that you will not be able to upgrade in a year while they are inferior to to the 10th gen. This challenges the significance of a desktop CPU socket vs the BGA Ryzens of equal if not better performance. A year from now the 3k + USD/Eur KM-G will be succeeded by Intels latest, and even if the initial Alder Lake CPU's end up lacking, the socket (and thats the most important point here) will be with us for 2-3 generations.

The Timespy scores (and I'm completely conscious that real use scenarios might differ) shows the KM-G with an 11900k being very close to the 5900HX equipped laptops that cost hundreds of dollars/euros less.

I also appreciate that I'm airing my doubts on a Clevo forum and debating its parity with Ryzen BGA based offerings and the heresy of that, but matters of taste and theology aside it is a value question imho. (and we havent even seen the 5980HX in the wild yet)

 

Not sure what you expect on this forum.
If you still want to move over to the dark brown side you can of course do that but don't expect any applause in a thread that is dedicated to the currently only LGA + MXM laptop that supports the latest and greatest or should I say not so great?

Yes it is compromised but it is a reasonably well designed device that is not just meant to be effectively tossed into the trash can if either the main board, the CPU or the GPU fail.

Leave it to Intel and Nvidia to make a complete mockery out of their current CPU and GPU generation high end models to further hinder sales of this great product and some areas where Clevo makes asinine decisions are obvious to all but Clevo themselves but it is the best we have. You can always get a 10-core CPU from the last generation if you want a good higher core CPU and the new generation seems to be pretty good actually if you are only after a 6-core option for gaming.

As for pricing you will always save a certain amount with everything soldered on but if you do the math you will probably see that it is not THAT much and resale value of the KM-G should also be higher.

 

Choosing a gaming desktop + office laptop is sound advice for 99% of user cases. However I need the mobility at home, for which a DTR is better suited. Eh, I remain optimistic and maybe I'll buy the X170TM in the future with a 200w rtx4080

 

These are legitimate issues to struggle with. You'd be nuts if you were not struggling with them.

• There is NO SUCH THING as value where laptops are concerned, and there hasn't been for a decade or more
• Due to scalping and availability problems, there is no value to be found on the desktop side
• Do we forgive Intel for lack of innovation and getting caught with their pants down?
• Do we forgive AMD for their almost nonexistent overclock abilities, hideous memory performance, buggy drivers, crappy firmware and questionable reliability?
• Are we OK with paying too much for a disposable, castrated, overheating, poorly engineered pile of feces BGA turdbook just because its cheaper?
• Does spending less on that pile of feces represent value, or simply a slightly less frivolous waste of financial resources?
  
• Do we still give any credit for value when it goes tits up out of warranty and a new mobo+CPU+GPU combo makes buying a new laptop the best decision?
• Are we OK with giving money to companies that intentionally build broken garbage that is soldered together so they can continue to sell us more of the same?

What we have are many problems, nothing to be happy about or thankful for among the options, and the task at hand is limited to identifying the most tolerable evils that we are willing to put up with. Saving money might be the smartest thing to do considering it's all feces, but spending money on any of it negates the notion that true smartness exists... anywhere. You can't take it with you and in the end it's all gonna burn. Your friends and loved ones probably are not going to remember what kind of digital and electronics garbage you wasted money on.

 

• Due to scalping and availability problems, there is no value to be found on the desktop side *So true brother.
• Do we forgive Intel for lack of innovation and getting caught with their pants down? *Its a flip coin on this point, but getting caught pants down brought back some competition to say the least.
• Do we forgive AMD for their almost nonexistent overclock abilities, hideous memory performance, buggy drivers, crappy firmware and questionable reliability? *Hard to say but this is a flip coin too, but yes drivers and reliability does waver me to no forgiving totally for at leas the reliability side of things we all remember the AMD MXM GPU fry up.
• Are we OK with paying too much for a disposable, castrated, overheating, poorly engineered pile of feces BGA turdbook just because its cheaper? *HELL NO! you get what you pay for, with a turd book that's stupid prizes.
• Does spending less on that pile of feces represent value, or simply a slightly less frivolous waste of financial resources? *HELL NO! if it was a BOGOF then maybe but a turdbook is a turdbook and no matter how cheap it is, its not worth it.
  
• Do we still give any credit for value when it goes tits up out of warranty and a new mobo+CPU+GPU combo makes buying a new laptop the best decision? *HELL NO! why give credit for planned obsolescence, when it just causes more e-waste.
• Are we OK with giving money to companies that intentionally build broken garbage that is soldered together so they can continue to sell us more of the same? *HELLO NO!, why you think i am ditching MSI for a Clevo DTR system as i am fed up with buy BGA get stupid prizes.

The only thing i struggle with is which lung or kidney to sell to buy my config. With the state of how BGA CPU and GPU combos and BGA CPU + MXM have been for me i am no longer struggling to choose Socketed CPU and MXM GPU's, right now its only Intel Clevo DTR systems out with this format so intel it is.

To bring it back on topic i have now chosen my config for the KM-G and where i am ultimately buying it (Whom is not a Prema Partner unfortunately) now its the case of saving the £1984 to get it or in my case £1484 now as i have £500 saved so, i am even lowering my vaping just to save quicker to get this KM-G.

Hopefully this system will last me the 5+ years i need it for.

 

I suspect that it will. And, the beauty of sockets and slots is you can start with low end to stay on budget, like i3 or i5 CPU and 2060 GPU if cashflow is an issue. If you want to upgrade it to like 10900K and 2080S/3080 in a year or two you can do that. If it breaks you can fix it, too. With BGA one only finds themselves up the sewage creek with no paddle.

 

If you only buy every five years and you need an upgrade now this is the best system you can buy, no doubt.

 

Thanks Guys this was entertaining

Now if Clevo would build an X170 KM with a ryzen desktop processor and a 3080 I would be happy.

 

Yes, it would be really nice if they offered such an option so the people that wanted a Ryzen-powered system could choose that as an alternative configuration. Variety and options are always welcomed.

I am doubtful that Clevo has an appetite for the additional overhead and headaches that would follow. They tend to stick to what they know makes money and what they're good at.

 

You might want to also pass that thought to AMD as they have to support Clevo in offering such a system and it looks like they are not very eager to do that.

 

At the moment AMD are just selling everything anyway.

 

For the love of everything holy, I cannot figure out how to remove the keyboard to install the last 2 ram sticks. Has anyone done this yet? Are there release screws on the bottom, or is it just a keyboard-prying situation? If the latter, what tool works best without damaging the keyboard?

tia

 

Usually the screws go through the base, with any indicated with a keyboard symbol.

 

There are two release screws with a keyboard symbol next to them.

 

Take a Look at this

https://download.schenker-tech.de/package/xmg-ultra-17-idxul17m20/?wpdmdl=3823&ind=1595923854023

 

Does the KM support xmp profile settings with the default bios so that ram modules with xmp 3200 mhz could run on 3200 mhz or only jedec 3200 mhz rams are supported ?

 

Modularity is important when it comes to replacing broken parts or upgrading to the best components available at launch date many years later. I had to replace GPU, DVD-Drive and upgraded CPU and RAM to 16GB (it was not possible to order with 16GB at that time). SSD made the system reasonably fast. It is only intermittent keyboard failure that is forcing me to upgrade.

 

Generally I would agree. (tho we shouldnt forget that the listed components easily add up to a new laptops cost)

But at this particular point in time the KM-G is coming out with a socket that will be succeeded by Adler Lake in a quarter or two. That is the point he is trying to make imho!