*** Official Clevo P775DM2/3(-G)/P75xDM2(-G) (Sager NP9152/NP9172) WINGMAN 2.0/BATMAN 3.0 Lounge ***

All models had and have power limitations in place (same as MSI an others).
It's just that with the Mods we have put new limits in place as per our own test results.

 

Yup, you are right.
Let me phrase my question this way.
Is p775dm3 more like p750dmg or p870dm in terms of power limit.
You remember that I kept on saying CPU clock doens't keep straight when OCed over 4.5 with p750dmg?

 

The throttle doesn't only account for total board draw. We can't directly compare an SLI board to a single GPU board, in order to understand if it will throttle in a certain scenario or not, as each slot/component in addition has it's own limits in place.

Edit: Those things cost A LOT of time and effort and wouldn't have been possible if it would not have been for a P8 review unit and the blessings to turn it into a crisp if that would have been the cost to get things working as intended.

 

@Donald@HIDevolution,

Now that all the Pascal equipped Clevo's have been posted on HIDEvolution and the dust has settled a bit, you guys might want to do a once over on descriptions to ensure everything jives.

Also, I saw in the P870 discussion that another reseller confirmed 1080p 120hz w/G-sync displays are about a month out. Is that the same case with you guys?

 

After a rather substantial fail with ordering an MSI GT72VR (where Amazon was kind enough to intercept the package before it got delivered), I decided to change it up and roll with a P775DM3-G with a 6700K and GTX 1080 courtesy of @ Donald@HIDevolution.

A little spendy I realize, but with 0% interest financing and the funds from the sale of my NP9772, the cost of the upgrade won't put a real strain on my bank account. Can't wait for it to get here.

 

Master @Prema any word on the 120hz 1080p and 4K G-Sync screens? Metabox seems confident about their (eventual) arrival later this year. I just called them again today. Strange that the US resellers are being tight-lipped on their existence.

 

Panel production can be beset by so many issues that talking about them down the road before they are in the warehouse for shipping can be a fruitless exercise.

 

From what I've heard the P775 won't be seeing 120Hz panels anytime soon. Hopefully it's the kind of thing we can swap in down the road when they're finally more available.

 

I have confirmed that I will be able to upgrade (when the 120hz monitor is released) prior to completing my order. Tbh before you drop the big dollars for the purchase price is the best time to try and lock in a good upgrade price for the screen, because they want your $ get it in writing if you can and hopefully they can share a bit of their margin lol

Just got the tracking info, mine has been shipped xD

 

So you're getting a P775 with 120Hz FHD screen? Where from?

 

I've seen 4K screens for them, but not 120Hz yet.

 

Just ordered mine. Super excited! Big thanks @ Donald@HIDevolution for the help!

 

Anyone have one of these yet? How is the fan noise? Notebookcheck's review for the 980 version said the fan was "high pitched" and behaved strangely when idle.

 

The new ones have 12V fans and they will sound like a jet engine when maxed out @ 4300 rpm xD
But, hey these Pascals cards need solid cooling.

 

No I'm getting the 60hz, but I secured a low fixed price for an upgrade to the 120hz monitor (when it is released) before I completed my purchase, as it would have otherwise been a sticking point for me. Metabox (Australian Clevo vendor) was happy to accomodate.

 

Aha cool, nice planning ahead.

 

Arent you going to loose GSync with a 60hz->120hz screen upgrade?

 

They let me pay 10% deposit to guarantee the 4K 120Hz option instead of paying the full price upfront. Bet those screens will be selling like hotcakes whenever they're out.

 

I don't believe so, they are stating that the 120hz 1080p monitors will be g-sync compatible, so it should be fine to my understanding. Hopefully it never drops below 120fps after I OC the gtx1080

 

I am curious though (and am totally ignorant around this point), with high settings on most games resulting in such a loss of framerate with only a single gtx 1080 on 4K, would there be any benefits of gaming on this laptop with a 4K screen? And couldn't g-sync on 4K potentially lock it to even lower frame rates in an attempt to ensure smooth frame rates?

 

G-SYNC shouldn't ever really hurt your framerate, it should just let your display refresh at whatever rate your computer is able to draw. So if you're doing 45fps at 4K, rather than your display being forced to pick between 60Hz and 30Hz to prevent tearing because it's locked at a 60Hz refresh rate, it can just actually refresh at 45fps.

Whether a 1080 is able to drive a 4K screen at over 60fps on most games is another question. 120Hz GSYNC for a 1080p (FHD) display definitely seems like it makes a lot of sense as a future upgrade, since a 1080 should be able to push that resolution above 60Hz for most games.

 

So the GSync license wont break on the BIOS level meaning I can install any display with the correct EDID and GSync will work?

 

You may need a bios update too, it all has to be white listed.

 

Been agonizing over a new machine for a while: back and forth between sizes, models, and sellers. This weekend, I'm leaning towards a builder off Clevo chassis rather than a Sager Reseller.

However, when I look at something like Mythlogic, I see that the 750DM2-G does not have Optimus.

- 15.6" (16:9) Full HD (1920x1080) IPS LED-Backlit Matte Display, 4K Screen Optional with nVIDIA G-Sync Tech
- Intel Core i5/i7 DESKTOP Skylake Processors
- nVIDIA GTX 1060/1070 6144MB/8192MB GDDR5 DX12 Video Card
- SuperSpeed+ USB 3.1 and Displayport 1.3
- NO Optimus, straight nVIDIA Graphics
- 4 FHD+ Simultaneous displays

HIDEvolution's site doesn't say specifically yes or no, but I'm assuming they don't have Optimus on this model either?

When I look at Sager resellers, however, such as XoticPC, the NP9152-S clearly states with Optimus:
- NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 GDDR5 (6.0GB) with Optimus™ Technology (Upgradeable)

I'm a programmer, I game on a desktop so would not this machine. I want a DTR class laptop for CPU power, so I'd even be happy with Iris Pro graphics if they had it in this form factor.

Stretching battery life doesn't matter to me for my usage scenarios (mostly lug between 2 or 3 worksites, not mobile on the go), however keeping heat down while I stress the CPU is important to me...I don't want to pay for desktop class CPU only to have throttling.

Mythlogic was nice enough to promptly answer some pre-sales questions and confirm that even with straight nvidia graphics, if I'm just doing stuff that isn't GPU-intensive, that the 1060 would throttle down and not be an oven like it would be in gaming.

What would I be missing without Optimus given my likely usage scenario?

Thanks for any insight the group can provide.

 

Optimus is about extending battery, with it on you will go from 2-3 hours to 4-5 hours doing office tasks so it depends on what you need.

 

Thanks so much for the reply on the battery life, but a follow-up on the heat question:

Wouldn't a Sager with Optimus on this chassis be superior on heat than a non-Optimus Clevo build? If I understand correctly from the nvidia whitepaper, the Optimus actually uses the IGP when it can and completely switches off the 1060 for those tasks.

Would a straight nvidia graphics 1060 that's being asked to do "office tasks" as you put it, throw out more heat than an IGP with the 1060 switched off under Optimus would? Or are these new Pascal GPUs so efficient that the heat differential in that scenario would be a nit?

 

Yes that's exactly how optimus saves power. You don't have the gpu active or the power hungry gddr5 memory interface. The igp just uses the already active system ram and is designed for lower power and frequency operation. At idle the couple of watts saved can have a huge impact.

 

The one mitigating factor that might help out the non-Optimus config is that there are separate cooling systems for the CPU and GPU -- so even if with the 1060 always active, it's got its own cooling. So your peak CPU/GPU temp might be lower than with the Optimus CPU/iGPU config.

You'll almost surely be pulling more power and generating more total heat, but that heat will be split among two sets of heatsinks/fans.

 

But having Optimus means that the data stream goes through the CPU anyways. To enable or disable it, many times (not always) it's necessary to configure vBIOS and BIOS to send the data to be processed in the GPU then the data stream is pushed through the CPU and iGPU then to the display.

It's dirty on some configurations.

There are also configurations that don't suffer from this, but inclusion of Optimus could cost money.

Now, I don't want to sound rude, but I've no reason in this world to want optimus in a laptop that's practically supposed to replace a desktop.

Just for the sake of it, I have a 6.4" phone and a 10" W10 tablet, if I need power, I seriously doubt anyone who powers up a 6700K expects a lot of life from the machine while on battery.

 

Right, my original question was all about heat, I'm not at all worried about battery life being plugged in all the time.. I just don't want any throttling due to heat when I've paid a premium for a desktop class CPU.

Maybe I was off base, but I assumed that if I could run iGPU only when I'm just coding/compiling/testing, running multiple VMs, phone emulators, etc, and really hammering that CPU, that I could keep the heat down as opposed to that big 1060 running all the time.

 

It's switchable in the bios. Most of the time you will be fine with Optimus on most likely, this will reduce noise at idle.

Some people get a bit hyperbolic about optimus.

 

you could also downclock that 1060.
Have you considered a laptop with 6820HQ or 6820HK. you could clock them at 4ghz get within like 5% of desktop performance

 

If you JUST care about CPU temp, offloading some work to the GPU (by not using Optimus) is going to help, even if the laptop overall is generating more heat.

 

Welp ordered my Sager NP9172 today. Now the waiting game begins.

 

If you're like my setup, the dGPUs will sit there and not even reach 45-50C. Now, I don't have this model (... Yet), but in the course of a day, I may run two instances of an IDE, be it VS, Eclipse, or Android studio, debug client side or a web server, run scripts and write queries against SQl Server, and when that is done fire up an emulator or two or run 2 or three separate VMs to test everything.

Since there's no 3D stuff involved with this kind of work, heat won't be a factor from the dGPU. Like I said before, the GPU should pretty much be idle most of the time.

One thing you may want to watch for is drive heat. If you config to use m.2 SSDs and you are writing /testing stuff that does tons of i/o or are doing Gets over and over again, there are reports of some of the m.2 SSDs throttling as they get hotter with use. YMMV

HTH

 

Gratz, please post initial impressions and temps once you get situated.

 

Is there any word on whether the 120hz display will use the same connector as the 60hz?

I spoke to the Australian Clevo reseller (Metabox),and they have said that, if it uses the same connector, then they can retro-fit the display when they get them in (expected the middle of next month).
But that it's a bit of a gamble to make a decision based on that, as they can't confirm that it will be the same.

 

Definitely. If I have time I'll make a video. But all I'll promise is pics and a write up.

 

How much would M.2 SSDs throttle? Would they ever like drop below 100MB/s?

 

I confirmed that metabox will fit a new cable etc if they need to, he assured me in writing that it can be done, so if it can't I suppose it becomes his problem to fix

 

Thanks, yes, I'm probably worrying to much over dGPU heat since I won't be stressing it. The thought of a DTR is both exciting and worrisome, but I guess this chassis has been around long enough that Clevo knows how to not have it cook itself by now.

Also, thanks for the M.2 SSD warning. I am coming from mechanical 5400rpm drives anyway, so I will likely go with Samsung 850 EVO SATA now, even though I really doubt I'd stress the m.2. Going with SATA SSD saves me some cash now, and gives me an upgrade path in the future to m.2 nvme. Again, coming from mechanical 5400s, I'm sure SATA SSD will seem pretty awesome.

 

Amazo! Who have you been dealing with? I spoke to Daniel today, but he wasn't sure.

Knowing I can upgrade to 120hz at a later date might be enough to push me over the line.

 

I have been dealing with Emmanuel Lee ([email protected])
possibly head of sales from memory, who wrote pertaining to the 120hz screen, "Unfortunately I'm still waiting on confirmation of the screen replacement price, but can assure you that this won't be a problem and we can do it within a reasonable price (Small Labour Charge) on top of the upgrade cost." Emmanuel was very helpful with my after sales queries about the screen.
Also I really recommend Kris from Kong Computers ([email protected]) who was quite accommodating around purchase price when I bought the unit from them, a motivated and flexible seller, particularly considering their tight margins.

 

I queried this on forum recently ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-p775dm-g-samsung-950-pro-query.794499/), prior to my purchase, and some peeps weighed in to reassure me that I probably wouldn't notice the throttling, although I suppose my application may be different than yours...

 

I've definitely thought about a 650-based machine instead of this 750, especially since the 650 supports 64GB RAM. Seems like no matter how I try to configure the two, this DTR is only about $400 more. I like the idea of the thinner and lighter machine, but I'm net gains for the lower TDP of the HQ chip is washed out by the thinner chassis. I figure another half an inch of thickness, 2 more pounds of weight, and $400 more bucks is worth it for DTR.

 

Unless you're performing consistently heavy read/write cycles, you're not going to notice any throttling.

 

How much would/could it throttle, though? Would it ever like drop below 100MB/s?

 

In regards to throttling during M.2 SSD usage, it will depend on the model, and how much writing you're doing to the drives, but I think 100MB/s is quite low. [EDIT: saturnotaku's video shows the SM951 has multiple drops past 100MB/s for brief periods of time, but it finished a 250GB transfer before the 950 Pro.]

Just do the research for the model you have in mind, and apply those results to your development habits. For example, I have some test cases where many GBs may be written to a database or some test files. Or perhaps you're copying over 20 VMs in order to test things. I haven't sat down with PerfMon to watch the number of bytes written, but it is something on my radar.

Also, searching is useful - https://www.google.com/search?q=m.2+throttle&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I myself was considering the M.2 950 Pro. Here is a quick review regarding M.2 version of the 950 pro - https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-950-Pro-M-2-Throttling-Analysis-776/ and some suggestions regarding a hard mod that may or may not fit in a laptop - https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-950-Pro-M-2-Additional-Cooling-Testing-795/

Also, I hope in the next few weeks there may be some indication on how far out the public release of intel Optane M.2 drives may be. But don't know if we'll see that until well into 2017.

 

Worst-case scenario is you'll see a bit less less than full SATA-III speeds. Here's a video of the 950 Pro and SM951 that uses FLIR to illustrate what can happen.

 

Oh no, not 400MB/s!!! How could I ever live with those speeds?! LMAO!

That's not nearly as bad as I thought, thanks for the link.