*** Official Clevo P370EM / Sager NP9370 Owner's Lounge ***

Thanks a lot Myth. Well I hope that could be fixed soon with some bios updates. Mine from Eurocom. Thanks again +rep from me.

 

hey, mythlogic. so you can't just swap the 7970M card from P370EM to any machine out there? it's meant for this exact laptop and no other? what about vbios flash then? tnx

 

Nope the P370 cards are part specific to the P370.. We tried to plug a normal P150EM 7970m into a P370 and yea that didn't work out put light on the screen but wouldn't finish post. Did the same but reversed (Put a P370 7970m into a P150) same thing, put light on the screen but wouldn't post. The vBIOS's are also specific to the P370. So there are 3 currently shipping vBIOS's for the 7970m from Clevo: P1xxEM, P2(5)70WM, P370EM.

The P270WM is compatible with the P1xxEM, but is NOT compatible with the P370EM
Don't know the compatibility of the P1xxEM or the P370EM with the P270WM (It isn't out.. yet)
The P370EM is NOT compatible with the P1xxEM and same story on the P270WM (Don't know.. yet)

The above is just for vBIOS, physically the cards all fit because of the MXM standard.

You can vBIOS flash inbetween them, but it would have to basically be blind as you can't get it to work in a P370EM long enough to pull the vBIOS off the card. So you would have to blind flash it, or read it directly off the flash with a tSOP clip.

 

Thanks for the explanation. Are the vBios of 7970M in master and slave the same or they have different vbios?

 

Thankfully with the newer MXM standard etc, the whole master slave thing is a thing of the past. Long as you have a pair just put'em in with the CFx cable and have fun.

 

Allright, I just looked it up further more, and it seems it will be released between november and december. Btw, do you think it's wise to get the XM processors or will the QM will be sufficient? Because I have been thinking of getting dual 680m (sli), and having a strong processor might get you future-proof for at least 3-4 years? RAM, HDDs, and other compartments can be upgraded later on.

 

If you aren't going to OC it, then the real reason to get an XM is wasted, so the suggestion would be to get a 3840QM and enjoy it.

 

mythlogic, thanks for the clarification! Is it the same with Nvidia cards as well? The last one from me, considering to order 4x4Gb of 2133Mhz PnP ram for the beast, do you think it'll work at advertised speeds like 1866Mhz PnP modules? tnx

 

I would love to see a link to someone selling said 2133Mhz memory We finally got some 1866 that is being made for us that isn't crazy expensive, I know kingston talked about it at CES and then promptly went dark. So yea where can you purchase such goods?

The nVIDIA cards don't have the same limitation, they have specific vBIOS's for each platform but they all work with eachother.

 

So 4x4Gb 1866Mhz of PnP ram works great on all EM models? BTW, here's the Manufacturer Part Number KHX21S12P1K2/8! they're sold for about 75$ for 2x4Gb

Links - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kingston-KH...771?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5aea92e7c3

http://www.pcsuperstore.com/products/11775315-Kingston_Technology-KHX21S12P1K28.html

http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/con....asp?root=&LinkBack=&ktcpartno=KHX21S12P1K2/8

 

1866 works fine on the EM platform no matter what the CPU you have (Even dual cores). 2133 we know will have to be 3720QM+, but thanks for the link, just bought some kits for testing, we'll get them tested this week.

 

that's some good news) i guess all the community enjoys some 2Ghz+ ram laptop testing. there were a few guys at AW M18x section who tried 16Gb 2133Mhz ram with no problems. + rep when i can!

 

Could owners with single 7970M share their idle temps? Thanks in advance!

 

Indeed. The fan controller is (??still??) unstable. The fan spins too fast for Tim4's specific ambient temperature and cooling setup.

Surely Clevo has addressed these issues on this brand new platform by providing individual users the ability to customize their system's fan tables as required on an individual basis (e.g. given environment, seasonal and mood changes...)?!??

 

Didn't quite get you... Could you, please, explain a bit? As a "individual user" I haven't changed fan tables...

 

Clevo tries to provide a one-size-fits-all fan profile for their PCs which can't be done! Users "should" be able to specify to some extent, and in particular at idle, how the fans behaves (speed vs temperature) to suit their personal requirements.

Assuming your cooling solution is in good order (good paste, healthy fan, clean ducts) the sligthest breeze of air will most likely be sufficient at idle to keep your GPU well within safe operating temperatures. In your situation: either your cooling solution is better than what mythlogic is able to provide, mythlogic never test their systems at the same idle clocks you have, or your ambient temperatures are lower than mythlogic's test environment. In any case (and assuming you want constant fan noise instead of ON/OFF cycling) this means that your fan blows too much air on the GPU's heatsink causing the GPU's temperature to drop below the "GPU fan turn-off threshold" (40°C in your case). Without airflow, your GPU gradually heats-up until it trips the "GPU fan turn-on threshold" (56°C)... and the cycle repeats.

Should Clevo decide to finally address their end-user's requirements in this respect (I'm assuming resellers/system builders like mythlogic, sager, et. all, have communicated their customer's demands to Clevo a long time ago), you should be able to customize your fan/temperature tables in BIOS settings or within Hotkey, at the very least, your idle fan speeds and temperature thresholds such that the GPU temperature remains within a sweet spot between Fan turn-off and Fan turn-on thresholds for your particular ambient temperature range. e.g. An individual working in a 22°C ambient room may never experience fan ON/OFF cycling; but otherwise be constantantly annoyed by ON/OFF fan behavior when moving to a 21°C ambient room... Ambient temperatures are different during summer than winter, at equatorial regions vs polar regions, and some people may like the fan cycling ON/OFF vs constant noise...

Airflow is without a doubt required. However, without any control of your fan speeds vs temperatures your stuck with that annoying ON/OFF cycling. I have a powerful silent external cooling solution to do the job, so I souldn't have to tolerate any fans whinning in the background when I don't have to. Personally, I think 56°C fan turn-on threshold is good because I don't want the internal fans to be running at all at idle to moderate loads when docked in the office. 40°C fan turn-off threshold is an easy target to hit also, should a temp spike occur, the fan will be quickly silenced. So really, Clevo has fixed the fan behavior on this new platform as far as I'm concern; but completely broke-it for others... and the cycle repeats... Now let see how many rounds of BIOS fixes with "improved" fan profiles will Clevo rollout for this platform...

 

How can the aw18x be more powerful then a same specced P370EM, do you have some benchmarks?

 

Since this is still a fairly new laptop and information is still somewhat sparse for prospective buyers, I wanted to add some of my observations on things I was curious about but never found the answers to until my laptop actually arrived (in case any Googlers run into this post):

My specs:
i7 3630QM CPU
GTX 680m single GPU, 4gb (not SLI)
12 gb 1600 mhz RAM
120 gb Intel SSD, 750 gb 7200 RPM HDD
Matte screen ($30 more than basic glossy)

Speaker Quality:

- I've read several complaints about how the NP9170 speakers are terrible (which is largely why I opted for this laptop despite only wanting a single gpu). These speakers (NP9370) actually sound pretty good. The bass is definitely present and decent for a laptop (though it won't rival a mid-quality $50 external speaker setup with standalone subwoofer - it will be better than a low quality external speaker setup). I'm not an audiophile in any way, but I've had an Alienware M18x (which people generally agree has decent speaker sound - again, for a laptop) and I'd say it sounds about the same as that, if not a little better (M18x can sound muffled at times). I also played around with the Samsung Series 7 Gamer (which although gets decent reviews on sound, has no bass whatsoever) and the NP9370 sounds MUCH better than the Samsung Gamer in my opinion, if only due to the fact that it has bass (though the overall max volume is definitely not as loud as the Samsung - that laptop has unreasonably loud max volume). As far as I remember, the sound is also better than the Asus G73JH, though admittedly it's been awhile since I heard sound on that system since I messed up my sound while trying to repaste my GPU.

- Anyway, I tested the sound on a few songs where some of the bass and high effects won't come out clearly on bad speakers, and that wasn't the case for this laptop.

- That being said, you may have to play around with the Creative Software (the Equalizer settings help a lot) to get the best sound out of this system. Note that I haven't tried headphones though, partially because I don't have any good headphones.

Temperature:

- I read there was some concern about a single GPU config potentially causing the temps of the CPU to get hotter since the slave GPU and CPU share some cooling (part of the CPU copper is cooled by the slave GPU fan). I can't speak to this because although my config was only for a single GPU, I actually got all the fans and they all seem to run when needed, despite one being over an empty GPU slot.

- Also, after about 30 minutes playing Witcher 2 on ultra settings (minus uber sampling), my GPU max temp was 77 degrees, max CPU was 66 degrees. This is very similar to the temps I had with my Alienware M18x equipped with a GTX 675m (which is supposed to get hot). When I turned on uber sampling (surprisingly, even a 680m can't handle this setting without a somewhat large fps drop), max CPU temps were actually a little cooler but GPU was the same.

- Idle temps for CPU are about 38 degrees, GPU is 34 degrees (all temps are from HWinfo64). Overall, temps are really good compared to the other gaming laptops I've had and the cooling system is impressive; but then, I don't OC.

Screen Quality

- I just got the basic matte screen, and I'm pretty impressed with it. It's not as bright as the Samsung Series 7 Gamer (though I think that laptop gets too much credit for sheer brightness as opposed to color/contrast/image quality) but it is pretty bright. It's difficult to really compare this screen with the Asus G73jh or Alienware since both of those are glossy as well. I will say matte screens do have a grainy look to them that may not appeal to people who have only used glossy screens in the past (i.e. the whites are not as plainly silky white), but I personally like the screen and it's nice not to have so many reflections when I'm watching a bluray.

- I got a dead pixel!! :O this is the first screen of any kind (laptop/TV/etc) where I've ever had a dead pixel... at least now I know what it's like to have one firsthand. Luckily I signed up for the No Dead Pixel Coverage. Still, it may be worth considering getting that coverage, though I think I was probably just unlucky.

In summary, I would definitely recommend this laptop. I don't believe this is much more expensive than a similarly-specced NP9170 (maybe $75 more when I bought mine), and that money is worth it for better sound, mic in better position and potential upgrade to dual GPU's.

 

Thanks for providing the thorough info! I'm sure there are plenty that will find that very useful.

 

aaron360. I can just double the post above. Thanks for info and comparisons. That will be very useful for everyone.

 

Where did you buy your P370EM? Any additional fees to get the fan for the 2nd GPU even if you only opt for the single card configuration?

 

I got my laptop at XoticPC. I didn't request or even mention the 2nd gpu fan when I placed my order, and it just came with it without any extra charges. I can't say if that's normal or not, but I read somewhere that someone else got a 2nd gpu fan with theirs and I think he ordered his from a European company.

 

I can't speak for other resellers, but it was originally stated to me that when the second GPU was not selected, that the fan would also be missing which is what we've been advising people with. I always thought it was strange as it'd create a dead spot in air circulation which is not good. I even went as far as recommending taping the spot off so the pressure is maintained.

It is now appearing like the information is incorrect and they do indeed come with both fans regardless of the GPU configuration. So good news for all and takes care of all concerns!

 

310.33 Beta drivers are working really well for me, not that I heard any complaints about drivers but these new drivers kick butt. I think my temps are even a bit lower and I seem to be getting maximum usage of both GPU's instead of one at 99% usage they are both spiking to mid 90's percentile.
I really think the performance is a bit better.

 

Has anyone else used the Dead Pixel Guaranteed Coverage on a Sager laptop before? I may have to modify my opinion about it, as after e-mailing with a rep, I'm not sure that it is actually worth it...

The information about the pixel coverage on the website says:

2. Selecting our “0 Dead Pixel Insurance” option on any Sager Branded Laptop will Guarantee that ANY dead pixels will be treated by Sager as a DOA unit, and Sager will cover 3 day shipping both ways and replace the unit. (Continental USA only). This guarantee is for the first sixty (60) days of receipt of the unit, and not the entire year period of the general warranty.

However, in order to go through this process, I would have to put on deposit the cost of a whole new second laptop on a credit card, until they get the first one back. That doesn't seem normal to me. The other option (and the one they seem to be recommending) is that I send my laptop in and get the screen replaced. That's not necesarily a bad option, but I'm not sure I would've paid $60 if that's what the coverage details said to begin with, particularly since it seems that is the process for any defective part and doesn't necessitate an extra $60 to guarantee that solution.

Anyway, just a head's up that though the Sager dead pixel coverage sounds like they'll bring you a convenient solution if you're unlucky enough to get a dead pixel, it's not quite as convenient as it sounds.

 

Nice write-up. Regarding the temps: Keep in mind that your CPU is 35W and you only have a single GPU. We have seen that dual GPU systems tend to generate quite a bit more heat, especially when paired with xtreme CPU. Also, 21C ambient is slightly below average room temp. There are people out there with room temp of 25-30C and for those, it could mean 82-87C on the GPU even on a single GPU system.
What I'd like to see is some real life gaming temps from someone with 3940xm+680mSLI, @25C room temp, no cooler pad and no elevated back. That would shed some light on the true potential of the beast.
There's also an important point to consider when testing the temps, - fan thresholds. You never know how it's set until you push the system to its limits. For example, your 66C for the CPU could actually be incorrect if the fan is set to hit 70% of its rpm @65C. That would mean that @100%rpm the fan would lower the temp to 55C. It could also be that the GPU fan is set to hit it's max rpm @ 75C and thus your 77C would mean the GPU cooling is barely holding it. That's why, I always run a Wprime/Prime95 @8 threads + Furmark multi GPU (no longer valid since Nvidia has implemented throttling there), OCCT or similar software. If the temps stabilize and stop climbing at max load as well as stay in the safe zone - you are fine and there should be no surprises during long gaming sessions down the road.

 

Well there are a few key differences. WithOUT the dead pixel insurance, only a single dead pixel (or 2 or 3) are NOT considered a reason for a return. Which means you would have to either return the laptop and re-do the entire order process (using the 30-day return policy), or just live with the dead pixels. The other key difference is with the dead pixel insurance they will check your screen while building to ensure there are no dead pixels at that point, so you are VERY unlikely to actually get any dead pixels in the first place. I got the dead pixel insurance on my machine, and received it with no dead pixels. I am sure I probably would have had a pretty good chance of not getting any dead pixels anyways, but on a machine that costs this much I didn't want to gamble it.

 

i have a very important question to ask everyone..

from my research, i found most of the people has GTX 680M sli..
but for me, i do not have that budget..
i only have budget for dual 7970M
what do i wanna ask is, :

is dual 7970M suitable with 3610QM for the NP 9370?
i only can have 3610QM in my country.. sadly, i can't get the 3630QM..
will NP 9370 have driver issues with dual 7970M?
will it have overheating issues with dual 7970M?
will NP9370 have enduro issues?
will NP 9370 have keyboard issues like the NP9150?

sorry for all my questions..
but i really need answers..
any answers is much appreciated..
thanks very much everyone..

 

You'll have no problem running dual 7970 with the 3610 processor.

The driver issues are the same as the enduro issues. This machine does not have switchable graphics which means no Enduro, so you'll have no issues with it.

The system is designed to run a dual GPU setup, just follow the same precautions as any laptop (adequate airflow, cleaning, etc...) and you shouldn't have a problem with overheating.

I haven't heard anybody have a complaint on the 9370 keyboard, but I may have missed it, I'm sure others can weigh in on that.

 

Yeah, my opinion of the cooling system was solely meant for those looking to buy a single GPU set-up. I've read that with two GPU's, the first GPU's temps are about where mine were at, but the slave GPU tends to get quite a bit hotter. I'm not sure what percent of people who buy this laptop have SLI/Xfire as opposed to a single GPU, but I'd imagine only a small minority can afford 680 SLI at least (though XFire may be more common).

As for the fans, mine are just set to the out of box setting and with that, although I max around 77 degrees with the gpu and 66 degrees with the cpu, whenever I alt-tab out of the game, it seems like the temps are running about 10 degrees lower than that on average for both gpu/cpu. I also don't use a cooling pad and my laptop is kept level on my desk. For the average gamer who doesn't poke around their system too much and just plays games without OCing, I think they'll find this laptop cools very well right out-of-the-box... (granted, the average gamer probably has never heard of Sager)

 

Very nicely put.
This is why I also paid the premium for this coverage.
Thank you.
It is one insurance I want to pay for and never need.

 

Mine is running at 27C room temp. I've got 69C max for CPU during benchmarking and 75C for GPU. Furmark 1080p maxed out at 84C at same 27C room temp. I bet that at 23-24C I woun't see it even hitting 80C. Eurocom applies ICD as default paste.

 

thanks xotic pc, derek..
ur help is much appreciated..
i hav another question to ask..

for the NP 9370, can i get one GTX 680M first and make sli after 6 months when i hav enuff budget?
if it is possible, is the installation difficult and troublesome?

my second question is :

is crossfire 7970M (dual 7970M) better in gaming if it is to be compared with single GTX 680 card in NP 9370?
thanks..
any answers is greatly appreciated.

My last question is: if NP 9370 is to be compared with alienware M17X.. both is using single hd7970M cards?
which is a better choice?
thanks..

 

I want know this too

 

Yea 2133 at least that kingston + these 2012 clevo shells (all of them) and no love.. The timings are too tight and even some custom 2133 we've tested with looser timings still isn't stable.. so no love this generation.

 

Thanks Mythologic! Was really interested in that too!

 

From what I gathered from past discussions is that they don't check the screen during builds, it's just insurance to expedite an exchange if you have a dead or stuck pixel.

 

Does the computer start at least with 16Gb installed or what do you mean by not stable? Hope at least 8Gb works!

 

Here's my scores with the new beta drivers!! Awesome, temps are awesome too..

 

What temps? min/avg/max plz

 

The Kingston SODIMM doesn't even POST, just turns on and off (Even with 1). We have some other ones that we had made for us by Patriot (Our Memory partner) for testing, with looser timings, those boot up in 16GB (4x4) but just BSOD all the time. They need to have the timings loosened just a little bit, but when we do that the shells don't POST anymore.

 

Aw come on... damn it

Eagerly waiting to see if the Patriot RAM will work

 

It will be possible to upgrade in the future, this will likely be an upgrade kit supplied directly by Sager to do so and will just need enabled in the Nvidia Control Panel to enable. Should be fairly straightforward to do so.

Dual 7970 will definitely outperform a single GTX 680.

I'm going to be biased towards the Sager side of things in the battle with Alienware. In my opinion the lower price, same configuration options, same power in the system, will lend more points to Sager than Alienware.

 

mythlogic, that's just superb! ordered the 4x4gb kit for myself... damn.. it's like it was made exclusively for AW IVB systems!

Tnx for testing, BTW

 

Well I'll tell you now that I've seen a max temperature of 93C on GPU #2 and like 77C for the first GPU when the 2nd was at it's max temp. That was playing the first Crysis and also MSI Kombustor fur benchmark.

Since I've updated to the 310.33 beta I've been at 66C/75C max for GPU1/GPU2 (my 2nd usually gets hotter than GPU1) playing Crysis 2 for more than 1.5 hours. Min temp 31C/29C and the average in the 50's,60's/70's and my max temp in Kombustor was 86C which I'll take any day over the 93C.

I just got some Shin-Etsu G751 thermal paste and I'm not sure if I'm going to apply it just yet now that my temperatures are better. The guy at Sager whom I messaged regarding a few things told me 92C is just fine for a high performance GPU, though I'd rather not see those temps.

 

It seems that 3D P370EM3 VISION 2 is already available @ eco_items or 3D P370EM3 Vision 2 17 3" FHD SLI 2X 4GB NVIDIA GTX680M i7 3740QM16GB 750GB | eBay

 

TimeLord84, i would not recommend you to run furmark or kombustor cause it really stresses you gpu's too much and you never see such high temps and GPU load anywhere else! What i usually do i run 3dmark 11 first and 3dmark vantage second to test the highest temps i could get on vga and for max stability. repasting form the stock TIM is necessary you should easily drop the load temps by 5C which opens a room for OC)

Well it was said quite a few times but the GPU2 and CPU on this beast share a HS that's why the temps are different from the GPU1, which is normal. I wouldn't worry on the regular basis (2hrs of gameplay) if any of your GPU's temps stays under 85C line!

 

I actually did upgrade the thermal paste to IC Diamond from Sager. After I seen those 90'sC temperatures I was starting to worry. I have the Shin-Etsu G751 now but I'm not sure if I'm going to rush it unless I see some irregular temps again, or when I upgrade the CPU and have to paste anyways.

Crysis 1 is hard on video cards I've noticed. I'm ecstatic to see 70C as my max temp for GPU2 on Crysis 2 after big scenes where even my framerate dropped just below sixty. Metro 2033 gave me a 81C GPU2 so far but I only played it for 10 minutes.

 

Hey guys, Just received my np9370 a couple weeks ago, and couldn't be happier with it! I ordered through lpc digital and couldn't be happier with them either. Ordered it on a wednesday and got it the following tuesday! No rush added.

I noticed while looking at the bottom of the computer that you could see all 3 fans were present. So i took the back off In hopes that i was the 1 millionth sager sold and they gave me a free SLI upgrade ^_^ This wasn't the case. BUT. I was glad to see that i did get the second fan, Seeing as there is a cpu sink running right to it, and it seems it would have been much worse off without it. Pic, if it matters. And use this for reference as well for the next picture, Cause i'm curious about the cables to the right of the ram.



So i'm asuming this is common practice now? I've heard of others, even in this thead, that have the second fan upon no request. While i clearly noted i was going to upgrade later and i was concerned with the cost of components, Maybe larry hooked me up?

The next question would pretty much confirm this theory. do these loose cables down to the right of the ram have anything to do with sli? Or might they just be power cable, and or heat monitoring type cables?



Can anyone link to a picture where you can clearly see the sli cable? i've seen the bottom of this computer a thousand times while researching, but dont recall details like this. I'm also curious on opinions of when the 680m might drop in price? i'd love to get another one of those bad boys in here, But really isn't worth 500 dollars atm. A single pretty much kills it at everything i do. Just curious. Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any help clearing up these questions.


and if my post contributes nothing else, Might as well give you guys a nice laugh at the expense of this lenovo psu that was at my work this morning



I'm assuming this long flat ribon type cable is the SLI cable? running from one gpu to the other

 

The Sager NP9370 is now available with Dual GTX 670MX in SLi. It is also offered with the 120Hz 3D Screen.