**OFFICIAL M860TU/ETU Owners Lounge**

Are you using cooler or not?

 

Negative

It's 52 now. I'm actually using it in my lap at the moment, although I guess I shouldn't be.
I will get a cooler as soon as I can, just trying to figure out which of the ones I can buy in a local store is best.

did you try installing those drivers mentioned above yet?

also I just noticd I'm missing some keystrokes once and a while.. thats weird?

 

Another np8660 video found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbYeu7MpQ4c

Not sure if someone already posted it, if so, I apologize.

 

IMO, the plate between the mobo and the HDD has something to do with all this. Not that it is the full cause of the problem but it's part of many factors that causes this problem.

(btw, thanks for sharing your info)

 

Wow, this is an amazing lappy!.... hope it will last some years
Everything looks perfect so far... start testing...

 

Well partially we do have a solution for now on this hdd problem i guess.

Coz a 320gb hdd at 5400 has not that much heat problem. (we have three instances till now including me)

so a 5400rpm hdd has no heat issues! great then like my signature says my laptop is just perfect!

 

And there was other people with a 5,4k that had heat issue over 55. Maybe they are gone now but I remember some running hot.

 

oxandrolone, would you be able to fill out the np8660 Mini-Survey here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=292265

you seem to be getting better hdd temperatures (so far) and i'm sure your info from the survey will help!

 

does anyone have already a solution or something to drop the HDD temperatures? yesterday i was at 62ºC

 

I don't know why you're all so surprised at the HDD temperatures. They are high performance laptops, what do you expect? The temperatures that have been quoted aren't life threatening, dangerous or even that dodgy. A few of you have made this get out of hand.

 

The only solution I can think of for myself right now is to get a keyboard, so that the heat won't bother me anymore.

mouthus, do you own this laptop? if you do and if you also have the problem, maybe just maybe you will feel for us.

 

As someone already mentioned... aren't we all going into a globalized hysteria? The laptop does great managing heat from both CPU and GPU (with one fan does incredibly much better thant the AW m15x with two), but the HDD run on the hot side. Aren't we all getting a bit too focused in it? Did you guys experienced any real problem? Let's say... CPU or GPU downclocking (due to overheating)? BSOD? HDD failure? I'm sure someone will always have a problem... but if we all run around like crazy bees, we won't really get anywhere.

Just for the record, I've owned an M15x and it would also warm up quite a lot on the right side of the touchpad (to the point of making my hands sweat). Maybe that's something we will have to live with.
Some people just said it's physically painful... if that's really the case, than maybe theres a problem and shouldn't be working like that... But, again, aren't we all just being drawn into a mass hysteria?

Here's a sugestion... Enjoy your laptops, throw games, GPU and CPU benchmark tests, HDD benchmark tests, transfer GBs and GBs of information, etc etc... If it runs fine then great. If it fails, than I guess people will have a more solid ground to start making some point.

Human nature is as such... we will always find an imperfection. Share this with everyone and they will take you as prophet and follow you blindly (even if they never thought about that). Such is humanity...

 

Read this thread if HDD temps are a concern http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=291692&page=13 read posts from #123.

Hope a few of you can try this and see if it works

 

I'm going to say the same thing that I said to Daniel: I know the temperature of 60 degres is OK and that the hard drive shouldn't fail because its rated at xx temperature and we are overreacting and all and stuff but when the hard drive is hotter than the GPU and reach some 70 degres, I think its legitimate to start asking if there is a problem. Also, how can you explain the big difference between the temps of several users? So you are saying that this is normal that one hard drive runs around 45 and the other one at 70?

 

I wonder if your other 25 posts are as useful as this one.

 

the problem though is that you guys keep on asking if there is a problem and are continuously given the same answer. NOTHING IS WRONG! its hot, but i would rather have a hard drive that will be worth squat in a year burning out rather than something like a cpu or graphics card wich will cost huge money to replace.
Find it too hot? then get out of the fire. As gophn says, theres no need to but any part of your body on that part of the laptop. If the laptop was going to be hot somewhere on the interactive panel, would you want it anywhere else? I think not.

 

It really doesn't feel hot to me at all. I tried the laptop on a surface similar to which Chaz spoke of, it reaches 57 C. It felt warm, but my Toshiba P35 has felt much hotter than this thing has so far for me.

Oh, time to change signature.

 

So you are actually saying that this is normal to have a hard drive running at 70? I know its normal to have it between 50 and 60 but 70 is too much IMO.

 

Hi everyone,

I'd like all M860TU owners to try the "G50" mod. That is, covering the main fan vent on the bottom plate. The logic being that if the main vent is blocked, the fan will draw air through the other vents on the underside instead, including the one above the chipset and RAM. I know it's been established that the heat is coming from the harddrive but I still think having air circulate through more of the chassis would be beneficial for all components.

I've tried doing it myself, but it was very poorly improvised with a piece of gladwrap over the outside of the vent. It's not a perfect seal so what someone needs to do is either tape up the vent from the inside, or place a piece of clingfilm over the outside and tape it down to create a seal.

Before the "mod" my harddrive peaked at 68'C while copying files from an external harddrive. After the mod it peaked at 58'C and while the ambient temperature may have changed I doubt it would make that much of a difference to the enclosed HDD.

This is why I need other people to try it and to do it properly.

 

I expected the M860TU to be hot, but the reason we are here in the Sager forum and not AW's is because we also expected more from Sager. We were told that Sager were the best in the business when it came to managing the thermal budget. Again, I expected it to be hot but not too hot that it's operating beyond the specifications (e.g., hard drive).

Also, stop saying the hard drive can withstand 60C because not everyone has a Seagate... there are other hard drive brands that the M860TU uses too you know. With all due respect to Chaz, his one review of the M860TU should not discount the many other reviews that indicate a hot hard drive or something that's causing a hot hard drive.

 

Honestly, it's miles better than the heat issues in other manufacturers, with the components that it has. I guess best in the business doesn't really mean perfect if users cram the fastest components in a case? I'd assume default config would run very cool (and it seems to be the case - the one person with a default (SATAI) HD is running very cool, in the forum HD survey thread - it would be nice to have more data). I sure found that interesting.

Also, this is a performance notebook, top of the line, with a reputation for being very hands on. I don't know what people are doing buying this notebook if they're afraid to open it up, examine heatsinks/thermal paste, mess with their cooling setup, undervolt, change out components and the like and just notice a temperature, freak out and send it back asap. I expected overheating, perhaps massively so, and it was just a question of "how little overheating" will a Clevo get, in comparison to every other brand. I don't consider it major if the GPU and CPU are way below specs; the hard drive is the easiest (and cheapest) thing to change out, if need be, worst case scenario (that is, not when it fails, but in order to try slower ones which may make a difference).

 

But the data is not the easiest thing to restore . So you mean 70 degres for a hard drive is "a little overheating"? Seriously, there some 45 degres while others have 70. Is this normal?

 

I could care less if the hdd fails, and I've got to by a new one, But the heat that sits there on my wrist wasn't something that I saw I was ever going to get used to. sure it is a great machine, very fast, great graphics for a laptop, but when all you doing is surfing the new for an hour, and your wrist is turning red, that's a Little too much heat.

 

its the right wrist right?

If so, I went over it... its not the HDD causing that (from my observations)

The HDD is situated under the center (where the touch pad is).

The items on the right palm rest are:
- CPU
- Chipset heatsink
- CPU heatsink
- wifi card
- turbo memory
- tv tuner

If you can check which of those items are giving off the most heat, then we would have a better idea of why the right palm rest is radiating so much heat... which I think the HDD is not solely responsible for.

 

Wait a sec... Gophn, you wouldn't happen to have the layout of the motherboard handy would you? Is it possible that you could tell me which component is directly under the enter button of the keyboard?

I'm having an issue with my M860TU beeping, very low volume, high frequency, constant beeping, whenever I'm not accessing any files on my HDD.

I thought that it might've been the hard drive, but the beeping is coming from that location (the enter button), and you just said that the HDD is near the touchpad. I'd like to know which component it is, and maybe I'd be able to fix this without RMAing the laptop (I really don't have time for that, school is soon)

 

And I think your right, When someone posted a pic of the underneath, only the bottom half of the HDD had heat, than than some other components, maybe memory? but regardless where the heat was coming from, it was more than i desired.

 

I believe if we can determine which item is radiating the most heat, we can do a simple mod (like adding a heat shield between the component and the motherboard) to help prevent the heat from rising to the keyboard/palm rest areas.

 

Call me stupid, but I think when you spend that much money, They should of solved this problem, before they shipped them. We shouldn't have to try and fix their shortcomings.

 

That may be true... but no new technology is immune to issues... even if they are minor.

The main concern for these gaming notebooks is the GPU and CPU heat... which are fine for this notebook.

"real people" and their day to day habits are need to discover/experience these minor issues that might not have came up during their prototype tests... which probably focused mainly on low-level aspects.

 

I already clarified this in the exact part of my post that you quote! As I said it's the easiest thing to change out on your own, NOW/WHEN YOU GET HIGH TEMPS, and replace it with a slower/smaller drive, among other things. Did you see the people's specs with low temps? One was undervolting, and one had a default/sata I/5400rpm drive; the other people with low temps I couldn't find HDD or CPU info for.

The testing was *very* likely done on a default config, and they might have underestimated how much extra heat larger cpus (maybe) and larger/faster HDDs (most likely) add.

You need to buy a laptop from a company that does a lot more handholding. When you discover than your dell/aw/etc either runs with slower components and/or runs hotter or has worse cooling (in more important places, like the gpu) you can have them hold your hand while you send it back for repair. Imo, this is like buying a car, adding in slightly faster components than default, expecting not to do oil changes or not knowing how to drive it correctly, and then getting pissed off that that your investment wasn't perfect. This is ignoring the fact that, except for the two people with 65C+ temps (which doesn't include you, last I checked?) technically they were in specs.

 

I agree with you to a point. Sure we shouldnt have to fix our own problems but lets face it if Sager made announcement 2 weeks ago that the NP8660 was goingto e delayed lol everyone would be in a uproar. The NRB forums are awsome for solving problems and im sure with due time we will have a solution to the harddrive heat.

I am getting kinda of scared with my harddrive heat. if i shut the lid and leave it for a couple hours when i come back it will be anywhere from 52-54c.

I dont understand why it is getting so hot when the laptop is closed and isnt running anything. Something isnt right with that.

I did see the post about the Vista drivers. - i downloaded them from the link posted and it didnt change anything.

For the time i am staying away from gaming because i dont want to ruin my laptop.

JGR

320gig 7,200rpm

 

That's the other point. New electronics usually need 1-2+ revisions to work perfectly; expecting one company to perform wildly above every the performance of every other company is unrealistic.

Now your comment was pretty new/interesting. If the hard drive heats up when you close the lid (not when you game, no? why are you not gaming on it if it's unrelated) this might be an issue with the fans only kicking in when CPU temps reach a certain temperature. Idling would make HDD temps worse, as the heat is only building up in the one component that isn't being cooled either by fan or heatsink.

How about the people with hard drive temp problems try undervolting and/or lowering the temperature where the fans kick in and/or raise fan performance a notch? It sounds like the M860TU might be a bit TOO quiet.

 

Ok I think we are figuring out the HDD issues...

You need to prevent the HDD from unneeded activities:

by disabling:
- Drive Indexing service
- Windows sidebar
- Auto Defrag
- System Restore
- Volume Shadow Copy (Volume Snapshot Service or VSS)
- Microsoft Software Shadow Copy Provider service
- AntiVirus / Spyware suites

Read this for more details:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/...d-disk-led-activity-non-stop-blinking-issues/

My notebook dual boots with Vista and XP. In XP, the HDD is cooler... no doubt since I disable System Restore and Drive Indexing. In Vista, you need to disable more stuff... in the list above.

 

That's bull****, I shouldn't have to disable all that stuff which is beneficial in ways just so I can keep my HDD temperature at a safe level, absolute bull****.

 

I have done all of that and havent seen much of a differance. I will do a little more testing but as i write this my harddrive is at 57c in powersaver and normal fan mode. All of the things you listed i turned off.


As far as the heat goes. yes the HDD still stays nice and toasty when the laptop is shut. (still plugged in) I can also hear the fan going when the laptop is shut. I am wonderig is the laptop is having trouble slowing down. if theres such a thing.

The reason i dont game is because it idles at anywhere from 50c-57c and gaming it will go up past 60c. i did it once and i dont want to try again.

 

umm... the notebook is always recommended to NOT have the lid closed when its on... that goes for all systems.

its simple physics.

heat rises.... if the lid is closed .... then the heat is enveloped and makes the system warmer/hotter.

Set your system to go to standby or hibernate when the lid is closed.

 

I dont think they get that gopghn as they believe it should be ok because they did it with their run of the mill dells before.
Its a pity people cant seem to comprehend that this is a gaming laptop and will always be hotter than normal.

 

Just a fast question, anyone from Europe got their computer yet? And if so where from and why from there and not from kobalt/Rock/Novatech (remove the one u got it from ). I'm looking into these 3 and they all have some interesting options/prices except novatech which I can't select a European power cable anywhere .

 

Well I noticed that the fingerprint reader gets just as hot and it's directly in the middle. Maybe because it's metal?

 

Not to argue against basic physics but I have regularly closed the lids of every laptop (while running) I have ever owned and have never had a heat related issue. The amount of heat rising has always been negligible. I can close the lid of my 8660 while the HD is running at 50C and when I open up the lid again, it might be at 52C. I can live with that.

 

Calm down. Yes, the M860TU is expected to run hot, but the HDD situation is most unusual, even if it is within specs. And since the NBR community does have a lot of enthusiasts, solving the heating issue is important because it might limit the amount of headroom for anyone wanting to overclock their notebook. Dropping a few degrees never hurts, even if you're not gonna OC.

Personally, I'm just waiting for the bugs to get ironed out and waiting for more battery life reviews before I decide to buy the M860TU. I don't want to go through the m15x experience. Last thing I want is my palmrest or some other part of the case cracking after a few months of excess heating.

 

Delta_CT, you probably know that comparing the M860TU release with the M15x release is completely impossible.

The m15x release came with GPU and CPU overheating and downclocking, no leds where there were supposed to be leds, weak build, plastics cracking, etc etc...

With the M860TU you have amazing low temperatures for major components (like the CPU and GPU which will give you lots of space for OC) on a very solids computer... but you do seem to have slightly above expected HDD temperatures.

Again, I think people will always find something to complain about (I know it... I'm like that). But maybe it would be nice to stop and think... did anyone really have a real problem with the laptop so far?

The heat you experience on your wrists is exactly the same as I experienced in my M15x (the close match in terms of laptop you can find). So... maybe you will have to get used to the idea that these laptops are going to run hot.

For all I've seen, the M860TU deals with heat extremely well. If the HDD temps are improved, then I do think that it's a winner.

 

ummm my m860TU keyboard keeps clicking up on one side.. how can i fix it..

GUIDE ME

the m860tu is bloody cold seriously.. i was playing crysis in a workshop at uni that was hot and stuffy and it maxed at 80 GPU ...

i used the vista HD driver upgrdae to 8.5 and the laptop is now very cold...

im so happy i got this over the m15x.. milcs i seriously thank you ALOT

and yer i bet u u could play crysis on your lap with this notebook.. the single fan is right in the middle along with the hot GPU making it ideal for lap use....

Im so happy thanks NBR your forums have saved me thousands and given me a suprior notebook to the m15x.. beside battery life.

 

Heath, what do you think of your laptop.
I've read somewhere a guide to reset the keyboard.

 

True, I'm just being cautious. I've just had bad experiences with an overheating Inspiron 5150 that belonged to my sister. The heat cooked the GPU and a few months after I got that replaced, the mobo/chipset was damaged to the point that it will only recognize one stick of RAM. It's a shame since it worked great for office work in XP and I would be using it now for work instead of tearing my hair out over which notebook to buy.

I just believe that unless Sager/Clevo has tested prototypes for hundreds of hours non-stop at wide open throttle, it's hard to say what will happen in the future. It's easy to make things look good on paper. I'm an empirical scientist for work and there are many things that the theoretical fellows say will work. Well, sometimes they are correct, sometimes they are not. It's impossible to say unless you go to the lab and test stuff out. I just worry that a lot of these things are just done on paper, or on a computer monitor.

 

I'm incredibly happy for you.
More than a Clevo, an Alienware, a Dell, or whatever... you being pleased is all that really matters.
Good luck and hope your experience will continue a positive one.

 

In a way, it is. First the fan needed for the (rather humongous) AC power brick, and now the HDD temp problems. I still might consider placing my order (P9500+320GB 5400RPM), but right now I'm just kinda seeing how widespread the whole heat issue is and how it's gonna be resolved.

 

never thought Heathkidd would go for anything besides AW. used to debated a lot on AW vs. Clevo LOL

 

With a little further testing i can say that disabling all those programs Gophn said to in Vista improved the HDD temps. Not by much but hey even it its 1 degree its worth it imo. My laptop from a cold start will idle at 48c (preformance mode) with my zalmen on and in power saver low 40's c seems to by the highest so far. Also with Normal fan speed.

If members have not done it i highly recommend you do it. It also just seems to run smoother.

I still dont see why people are wondering about buying this laptop. Two choices for a 15.4 inch gamin laptop... M15x or M860TU. i think the choice is simple. well maybe not... that lime green keyboard is pretty badass.