**OFFICIAL M860TU/ETU Owners Lounge**

So I just got my M860TU today, and yeah, I'm having those hard drive heat issues as well. Getting a slight beeping sound. To be honest, do hard drives even beep? Sounds more like a motherboard beep to me (southbridge maybe?)

 

Your power brick doesn't have a fan in it? You sure about that? There should be a little fan vent on the same side as the wire that leads to your notebook.

Yeah the connection to the notebook is just -slightly- iffy. Doesn't seem like it'll come out during normal use, but it does on occasion when I move my notebook. And by "move" I mean shifting it from one room to another. No biggie.

 

I haven't had any beeping sounds from my unit, Clyzm

 

I'm getting this very slight beeping sound, seems to be coming from right over my enter key, can anyone tell me what part is there?

 

A piece of hardware is telling you something is wrong. Ad@m's notebook did the same thing.
Which reseller did you buy your notebook from?

 

Xotic PC.

10char

I'd like to know which specific part though

 

Mine has a fan in the power brick. Maybe you are the only one got the right power brick, becase my hard drive is really hot. Maybe we all got the wrong power brick?

JagerQ can you post a picture of your power brick? I think many of us received the wrong power brick and have something fried, because I do remember smell burning the first time I plugged in my power brick. So a picture of your power brick would be very helpful, also I would like to know what is the temperature on your hard drive. And where you bought your laptop. Also where you are right now, it will help to determine what kind of power supply you are using.

 

Yeah, no fan in the brick. Part number is 0227A20120 and puts out 20V/6.0A.

I took it apart to see what was in there. Seems Eurocom has taken some steps regarding the heat and put some extra shielding between the HD and the motherboard. It's got what appears to be some sort of cardboard/foil in between them.

In touching stuff, the HD was a bit warm but the ram was hotter though. There is a warm spot to the right of the touchpad, but nothing annoying to me. It works fine as a laptop; better than my wife's old Inspiron.

My HD is a Seagate Momentus 7200.2 120GB. Haven't benched anything as I am trying to get my hands on Vista 64-bit and have a 32-bit upgrade DVD/key right now.

 

I just figured out that my Seagates are cooler than my WD and Hitachi... strange.

Note: all are 5400rpm.

 

also, my CPU multiplier seems to be fluctuating... any way to fix that?

Went ahead and emailed Xotic... we'll see what happens.

I'd rather see if this is fixable via BIOS update though.

 

Getting 53 degrees load now... wierd... also that beeping got a lot quieter.

You know what, I'm starting to think I'm fretting over nothing. I'm gonna wait it out a few days before I jump to conclusions.


edit: 57 degrees while installing unreal tournament 3, beeping sound completely vanished.

edit#2: hit a high of 59 degrees after un-indexing my hard drive, and installing UT3. The beeping sound seems to go away when something is consistently stressing the hard drive (i.e. installations)

edit #3: Just finished playing UT3, hard drive was dead SILENT while playing, and hit a max of 61 degrees.

Also, UT3 runs buttery smooth at 1680x1050, maxed out =].



Alright... I got the beeping problem narrowed down. Whenever the hard drive is idle, it beeps. Why? I don't know, but what I do know is, my HDD light goes on, beeping goes off. I do something that uses the HDD like install something or play a game, beeping goes off. Honestly, unless this thing dies on me, I don't see it being worth the hassle to RMA.

 

Hey guys, just got my m860tu, was hoping one of you could tell me how to configure my hotkeys. ie I'd prefer to open something other than outlook express with the first one.


Thanks
(preferably IE linked to gmail )

 

oxandrolone, I can't find how to open it, I even looked it in the registry and I didn't see an option to change it. It is possible that you can find somone to hack it for you.

 

I think that's normal, in general. I think the coolest running drives are Samsung spinpoints, then Seagates, WDs, and some of the hottest are Hitachi Travelstars, last I checked (~yr and change ago, platters and sizes being equal).

Clyzm: Sure it's a beeping sound? And not a quiet "click... wrr... click... wrr" ? Seagate drives (maybe others by now, but this was specific to Seagate a few years back) idle like that (keeps the drive heads moving) (what hd do you have?)

 

I've got a Toshiba drive, and yeah I'm 100% sure that it's not drive heads moving. It's a distinct beeeeeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeep etc. Kinda like a metal detector? But really quiet?

In any case, I'm not too concerned anymore. Worst comes to worst, I'll grab one of these and throw it in there:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019217&cid=HD.517.47


Again, anyone got any reason why my CPU multiplier is going insane? There's no speedstep option in BIOS, silent mode is not on, I'm plugged in with performance mode on. I'm really at a loss here.

 

Are the Dimensions (WxDxH) -- 70 x 100 x 12.5 mm fitting into M860TU because of the Height?

 

Hmm.. might not fit in height wise actually... dang.

Just went on Toshiba's site and looked up the drive thats in my system... and yeah... 55 degrees celcius is supposed to be the max operating temperature. I don't think I've seen a single M860TU so far that gets less than that on load.

 

And if the hdd or something near it is getting too hot is it really a gd idea to put a hard drive that someone has just said usually runs even hotter in its place?

 

I'm sure that's the multipliers going up and down if your CPU is not being used. Try installing a CPU test program (e.g. Prime95) and stress your CPU. You will see that under demand, the CPU will always be at 100% and will immediately go down when the "stress" ends. It's normal... no reason to freak out about.

 

Alright, thanks milcs.

By the way, after booting up this morning and being on for a little while, I'm idling at a nice 45 degrees, with a startup temp of 34 degrees. That beeping sound is still there.... but I'm still waiting for an e-mail back from Xotic regardling the matter.

Did 3dmark vantage again, and got me 55 degrees load temps =D.

 

has anyone tried undervolting the P9500 yet? would be nice to see how low you can drop the temps under load.

 

I think people have too much on their plate with the harddrive temps at the moment.

I know my first priority will be the harddrive. No one seems worried about CPU temps so there's no rush to see how low it'll go.

I'm guessing you can probably drop it 0.2v max stably with a temperature difference of about 5'C.

I only do it for the battery life anyway.

 

We know the CPU and the GPU are OK. The only thing we can complain about? The hard drive temp! After that, it will be the screen and after, it will be the battery life.

 

sure we're complaining about the HD temps, but it doesn't mean we still can't undervolt it , less heat form cpu is less heat everywhere (extremely small proportions, sure) and more battery life

 

ahh! once again are there any official/ detailed or better reviews out for the m860tu yet.

Why is there such a long delay! Is there really that bad a problem that the reviews are actually being postponed till a fix could be found? I guess thats a valid assumption !!!

One thing that is really bothering me is that both Donald and Justin who seem to be there if some one actually talks negative about them and back them with a very prompt response without a single exception (which is great to see their commitment) are just not bothering to answer this question of heat problem even after about 500 odd repeated posts on that problem!!

So i guess hdd heating is pretty much something that has been bothering even the resellers!! They just seem to have no answer for this! Then thats really bad. I am not against them in any way but cant help think that way coz this is the only issue that they have actually left unanswered (can it be on purpose?) I would like to hear them too!

A through review was promised by monday and its almost the weekend! Y do they have to keep us speculating about something unless there is actually a problem!

but any ways if there are any reviews out please post the links here people. (

Thanks in advance

 

Speaking of overheating, has anyone purchased a well suited notebook cooler for this laptop?

I've been looking around but apparently most stores have really poor selections.

Looks like I might have to order it online, which sucks cause shipping will be painful considering where I'm living.


My HDD is currently running at 36 celcius, but yesterday after a few hours of use it hovered around 53-55. Haven't tried it under a load yet.

 

Again, here's someone who comes out of nowhere and complaining without keeping track of the story. We do not have centralized post with fancy sticky so you're stuck finding the info yourself.

First of all, there was like 10 first impressions or first thought about this laptop, the temperature, how it feels, the build quality, 3dmark and all. The reason why there is no official review is because the "officials" just received the laptop. For example, Chaz just posted some first impressions and will be back with a full review because full review takes time. And if you check carefully, there's not so much people who got this laptop and the one that have it are eitner too concerned about their problems, either dissapeared in the wild.

Now if you read all the posts in the many threads, you would find that Justin asked Clevo/Sager about the hard drive problem. Also, they did post some answers to our concerns but that's not a reason to post something everytime a thread is started.

If you want to answers, why don't you call Sager or Clevo?

 

Thank you livesoft.

@racoon...
We sent NBR a Sager NP8660 for review to get a 3rd party perspective, and while expert reviews do take time, Chaz has already posted his first impressions, which cover the hard drive issue, in this thread

As for the review promised by Xoticpc, the new reseller rules here at NBR prevent resellers from posting any product announcements, or product pictures...therefore the promised review cannot be posted without violating those new rules.

As for us not posting in reply to the myriad of new threads that everyone is starting, we simply cannot keep up with them all. People should stay within threads that have already been started on a topic and we could be more responsive.

 

The problem is that everytime a new "review" or some temps are posted, a new discussion starts there. And if any tries to merge all the threads about the M860TU, it comes too big to keep track of it. If I just start a thread about the HDD, the discussion will continue on other posts exept if they are closed. Also, personally, I prefer that individuals starts thread to post their impressions on this laptop instead of their post getting lost in a mega thread.

 

to start with i just dint pop in as u are assuming! I am also wondering if u have been reading all the posts at least in this thread coz i have posted some of my views on my new laptop. I would say at least 10 posts!


Finally i said people have only reported problems and there are no solutions posted yet! And if u read through ur post carefully (with a cool mind that is) u would still find no answer to it! Do you have to say something about that?

All u say is that "you would find that Justin asked Clevo/Sager about the hard drive problem". thats obviously not the answer i am looking for.

I posted that reply intending to get any of the resellers response who have been quite on this issue for some time! Though i was successful in doing that but i still dint get my answer! I am sorry if any of u got the wrong impression but i wanted to know whats going on officially (A valid source ie). Infact if u read my post carefully i was also praising them I know reviews take some time ...

So lets stop this now and back to the topic again i have seen only 4or so inititial thoughts so i am right in saying a through review is still pending. Nothing wrong in asking. Then what are these threads for?

Finally the ultimate question of hdd temp is not answered yet. I guess no one is certain on dealing with it yet!

 

@ paladin thanks for your prompt reply. but i really wanted to have an update on whats actually going on from the resellers themselves. And your post does that very well

thats all i wanted to hear from your side

 

No, that was one or even two weeks ago.

 

Thats the only reason why i have been posting only under this thread! And if u observe carefully all my questions are related to other threads. As i thought it would be easy even for others to follow!

BTW i have a sager np8660 and this is the right place to ask my questions!

 

Yeh that was last week when the laptop was just released.

But as paladin says they are not allowed to have a review posted here in NBR i wouldnt say he broke his promise!

@paladin can you post your review not calling it an officail review ?

I just cant wait to see the verdict on this great laptop.

 

It isn't calling it a review that is the problem, it is posting product pictures, or anything that resembles a new product "announcement".

The point is that Chaz is the NBR reviewer, and has started the thread with his initial impressions that I linked to in my previous post, and in that thread he clearly states that he does not perceive the warmth or temperatures coming from a high powered enthusiast or power user laptop like the NP8660 as anything but normal and within specs.

Please keep in mind that this issue is subjective. Most people are not complaining about it, although they are commenting on it. Those commenting are saying that they notice the warmth, but it is not anything troubling, and they rather expect it coming from a laptop with this much power. Just like someone buying a Ferrari does not expect it to be quiet.

For those complaining all I can say is they should buy a milder laptop because there won't be any laptop under any brand with these components that will satisfy them. You simply can't have it both ways.

 

OK, here's the deal: no one here found the problem with the hard drive because no one tried anything and because we are not Sager technicians. From what I can understand from the many threads, they are several "suspected" causes of the HDD problem and what have been going with that lately:

- Hard drive speed (7200 vs 5400): totally random
- Hard drive capacity (large capacity vs small capacity): no influence
- Hard drive brand/serial/batch/model: Seagate seems more reliable but there are some out there that runs hot
- Powerbrick w/ or w/o fan: initial reports seems to confirm that w/o a fan, the drive is cooler but when you dig a bit, the powerbrick has nothing to do and if there's no fan, the powerbrick is just hot.
- Date ordered (preorder vs ordered after): initial reports: preordered laptop seems to have a problem with the hard drive
- Bad design (no airflow / should try with a fan on it): no test made
- No plate between mobo and hard drive (Sager vs Eurocom): no test made, one Eurocom should come on Tuesday
- Heatsink problem: no test made
- Northbridge: no test made.
- Hard drive itself: no test made.

So you could go ahead and diagnose from the list and see what's the problem or you'll just have to wait like everyone else. Im sure that when Justin will have his answer for Clevo/Sager, he will share that with us. As for now, if you can't wait, just make a call. We are trying to do the best and help but this is not the place to contact the resellers.

 

@ Paladin - initially when the first wave of M860TUs shipped, people were commenting about how the heat felt... so you are right in saying it's subjective. But now people are commenting on the actual temperature of the hard drives and how they are operating beyond the specifications. There has been no answer to that from Sager or the resellers.

 

Nice compact summary!! I just wanted to confirm if i was missing something. Thats pretty much the same idea i had after reading all those threads except that the "date of ordering" one ended more like there was a problem with the preorder. but then again it wasnt conclusive enough as there was only 1 user who said so.

Even after exhaustive reading of most of the forums on NBR and based on my initial experience with my sager i would say the laptop is just perfect!

Well i was only hoping to know the resellers opinion on this issue (who were the only people) untill i posted my question who dint answer to this issue. So that all those looking for a more solid answer could be benifitted!

Finally i guess it cant be helped but we should have to wait another week or so for the official review!

Do post a link here when that is out ...

 

There doesn't need to be any "answer" from Sager or the resellers because the drives are NOT operating beyond specifications. You need to understand what those specifications mean.

Have you read Chaz's thread?

 

Bang on target there! Thats y i am so eager to see what they look like in an official review! rather than on a few (random) individual notebooks.

Though i feel mine is quite cool compared to what others had to say i just want to c the actual results in an official review!!

any ETA of an official review?

 

^--^
Have you read Chaz's first post in his thread?

 

@paladin - I think you are doing a great job anwsering everyone so I just want to ask one question. I know the hard drive won't fail and the temperature is OK and we don't have to worry because its actually normal but, how can you explain such a large difference in the temperature between the users, for example http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=292381 with those temps higher than the GPU and some temps like Chaz where all is normal.

 

@ Paladin - Uh, yes... my Toshiba 200GB 7200RPM (MK2049GSY) goes up to 61C so far. Specs according to Toshiba is rated for 55C, so I would say it's beyond specs. Also, Chaz review didn't mention any intense gaming which is what this notebook is for.

 

Yeh i have gone through the entire thread before my first post of today. this is what actually concerned me the most. He quotes " In my testing, I found the drive idles at 50 - 52*C, and tops out at around 61*C. These temperatures are NOT dangerous.
The hard drive could definitely have improved cooling though. "

That actually made me to conclude that (correct me if i am wrong)
1. The hdd temperatures are actually a concern.
2. the hdd is running a bit hot
3. Where he mentioned improved cooling he meant there is a flaw in the design
4. His temp is over the specified range by the hdd manufacturer (60*c)
5. Hes just reassuring which means nothing but pointing out to the obvious problem.

 

i am almost certain the temperature of the HDD is not the result of the HDD itself. I have literally had the harddrive copying and writing 100gb of data transferring all my music and the HDD maybe went up to 55C (52C is idle). However i remember another time when i was not doing anything harddrive intensive and it was at 62C, the highest ive seen it. I would wager, as some others have speculated that this is related to another component heating the harddrive. i have the 320GB 5400RPM btw.

on a more positive note, has anyone been playing crysis? what settings are you running at?

 

Could someone else try this too?
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...ENU.exe&DwnldId=16750&ProductID=2991&lang=engChipset Driver

I think the problem is here.
http://downloadmirror.intel.com/16750/eng/releasenotes.htm
2553383
SATA hard drive never gets spin down request while system is idle Vista

The Sager/Clevo drivers are old. These are 8.5 while the Clevo were 8.2
I'm still a bit warm, but it's better then the 65. And it is sitting in my lap.

Let me know.

 

So I hooked up my lovely new M860TU to my television today.........










And then played some UT3 maxed out at 1920x1080 on it...=D










I LOVE this laptop ^^.

I'll get FPS numbers for UT3 in a sec. Feel free to steal/use these pics as you wish, no credit needed. TV is the Sony XBR 2007 model 40", if anyone is interested to know xD.


UT3 FPS @ 1920x1080:

Lowest: 36
Average: 45
Highest: 60

Edit: you know what, I'm gonna throw up a gaming benchmark thread.

 

Some 3200 HDD runs hotther than yours. If its not the hard drive, what the explanation about such a big difference in the temperature reported by users. Also, when did you ordered/receive your laptop?

 

I hope it works, I am installing it right now.

 

I have Eurocom with a Hitachi 250 5400.


Hard drive right now is 49, if I use it for a few hours it tends to hover around 53 to 55, I have seen as high as 59. Haven't played any games on it yet though.