Official Coffee Lake Refresh Thread/BIOS for ALL Clevo Laptops - RTX CARDS NOW SUPPORTED

I don't understand why you claim that protecting someone's copyrighted Intellectual Property is somehow illegal, or morally wrong.

What is both morally wrong, and illegal, is trying to steal copyrighted Intellectual Property, or through coercion (...the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats) get the owner of it to hand it out for free.

The Custom Prema BIOS is a precious and valuable result of Prema's work, is copyrighted Intellectual Property, and deserves to be properly protected.

 

It's morally wrong when companies making profit from his work, Is this honest and legal?
I mean he edit and code from a freeshare bios. But did he wrote the full clevo bios code? It is like when you have a game and you want to sell a mod, is it legal to sell a mod? Yes he doesn't sell directly but his partners do. You want a prema bios so you mostly need to buy from a specific list of sellors. Restraining sellor list is not called protecting a code since a simple bios backup break the rules then sharing to the world is morally wrong. Yes you code a mod but you didn't code the full game. So i feel doubty about this kind of method of "sharing" and claiming intellectual propriety. Anyway it is not my problem and not my decision but the road he decide is not very helpfull for a restrained community even if i can understand his choices.

 

So, you believe making a profit for producing a superior product is morally wrong, or illegal? I am sorry but your are apparently debating Capitalism vs. socialism, and you are on the side of socialism, where private copyrighted Intellectual Property does not exist. We are on the side of Capitalism.

There is nothing morally, or legally, wrong with getting paid for one's endeavors, particularly when they are unique, beneficial to many, and virtually impossible to duplicate.

You are totally wrong stating the the Custom Prema BIOS is edited code from freeware. It is not.

Given the above, does your position change?

If not, maybe Prema should just retire from this forum where he has done so much good, for so many, for years. It is people just like you that would make him do just that.

How about it forum members...is that would you would like to see? If yes, do nothing...but if no, stand up and be heard.

 

That you don't see me helping user silently in PMs doesn't mean I don't do it.
That you don't see me fighting for the community behind enemy lines doesn't mean I don't do it.
That I don't react to people cheating doesn't mean I don't know about them.
That I don't reply to you today doesn't mean I won't do it tomorrow.

Rest assured that I am doing my part day in and day out without loosing a word over it.

Change is coming, be patient.

Edit: @DARCODER please stop PMing everyone and their mother to backup their P870TM-R PremaMod, my inbox is full of user forwarding me your messages.

 

Nope because i stay under the law. assuming your reading, Prema is the owner of bios clevo so all the code is wrotten by himself. By himself then yes he does what he want.
I allready tell that i totally understand his motivation and i might act like he did because his work is a huge amount of time.
But in reality, Prema is editing and might create new code under a copyrighted intellectual propriety. Sharing and protecting his intellectual work is allright, but knowing that some company is making profit of it is illegal because the bios is not totally edited at 100% from himself. It will be legal if clevo computer agree that method. But then even after that agreement, the unfair competition is questionable. I trully hope Prema will not be under law problems but im sure if he get some trouble, as a capitalism as you claim you are, you will let him down, even if his motivation are good. Im sad for him a lot of true users cant enjoy his work and selling Prema bios clevo is again not protecting anything as you can claim, this is an escuze. We all know as i said we can simply buy from a prema partner and backup the bios.
Anyway, i stay in my words Free access to knowledges for better sharing experiences

Dont mix personnal judgment by saying is people like me making him doing like that, that's a stupid conclusion. All i did was sharing my knowledges and experiences for pleasure. You assume i am the kind of man stealing work and ideas then selling by my name? Explain youself better what you mean

 

That was weeks ago and i didnt did it since someone tell me it was your work, you can ask a copy of discussion to them so you will see i reply direct without waiting an answer to them.
Its a useless ask what you tell me. But thanks for remind me if you were worried about.

 

That is a good joke. Your writing is almost incoherent and rambling most of the time, yet you are asking me to write with more clarity...now, that is funny.

"...that's a stupid conclusion." Really...you stoop to personal attacks?

I am done with this...and you.

 

Thanks for all you do @Prema

Are you watching this discussion?
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Don't write when you can't explain yourself about judging for no reason and mostly speaking for just spreading words. Speaking without shame letting persuade that i steal work and selling them? Since you conclude i am the motivation of Prema to act like that. From a company represantative, your are unprofessional to spread without proove even if it is true or not. Yes your conclusion is smart well founded to tell me in this way lol.. how to tell you more easier you spread fakness just for words. Someone who is judging and loosing words is happening when the truth is touch.
I remind you we are in a forum and we are here to share point of view in a same way. If you cant accept critics and cant debate, then just ignore my replies and ask an administrators if what i am writting need advertisment or not. But don't start personnal unfounded attacks, even more from a company representative.

 

Wow, so with all you new bios modders out there....The biggest complaint is @Prema? Really? Why? I mean you guys have this alleged great working product and all. That you give away and *cough* brick *cough* other users machines and then you pass it off as "as is" and "at your own risk" And disclaimer blah blah blah. Then complain about reseller's selling it? No! What you are paying for is if you brick that said system listening to certain users in a forum, that they will fix it for you. And any direct damages connected with it. Sorry, but I don't see you new guys doing any of that. I don't see you with stock piles of motherboards or GPUs at 1100+ dollars just laying around at your house. Don't see you with advanced shipping nor overnight shipping or anything else connected with fixing a bad bios job. if you are, then i will retract my comment. Just because you unlocked some menu items doesn't mean "fully unlocked" Not sure how this term keeps getting tossed around, when if it were "fully unlocked" then no one would be asking Prema for anything bios related.

And even if you were to try and reverse engineer it....I sure hope you know what your doing and do not fry your board and gpu in the process. Because if I find out about it. I will be in here talking about it for the next 2 months! I will happily accept my forum ban for clowning anyone trying!

 

You are missing the point: Prema has doubtlessly spent thousands of hours working on his BIOS/Firmware mods and people such as you are trying to distribute them freely. How would you feel if you poured most of your time into a project only for someone to later give it away to every Tom, Dick and Harry? It doesn't matter that its 'based' on Clevo's original BIOS, the fact is it expands upon it to such a point that it is unrecognisable from the feces that is the stock BIOS. There are options in the Prema BIOS that even proper desktop motherboards do not have. There are also many options which are more than capable of frying your components if used by someone inexperienced, which is likely one of the reasons Clevo have not adopted such options in their stock BIOS. I'm sure Clevo are well aware of what Prema does, if they had a serious problem with him modding their BIOSes they would have put a stop to it years ago - but the fact that he is still here delivering his good work to us is proof that they don't.

Also, there is nothing wrong with monetising something that is good, simply because many people desire it does not mean it should be freely available for all. Do you expect to get software for free as well?

 

This entire conversation makes my head hurt. Welcome to why you rarely see my text on these forums the last year or so. Let me get some things straight.

This is not correct. MXM was never plug and play. The form factor was the same, but driver modding (and BIOS modding for everyone NOT on an Alienware) was always required, and while the basic form did not change, the heatsink requirements DID change. 980Ms were a pain on machines like PxxxSM-A and PxxxEM because they quite literally needed new heatsinks that did not actually exist. The performance of those cards (and even the widely-considered broken 880Ms) in machines like P870DM which were designed to actually hold them proves this easily.

Mobile cards are DESIGNED to not be plug and play, and the driver install process proves this. They never were, and never will be, because as much as you or I or every enthusiast in the world complains, 10,000 people will prove that they don't care about our ideology for each one of us that does. And companies exist to sell things... whether they are worth it or not, or whether they even work or not, is irrelevant if people will buy it. See: AAA video games. Every Razer laptop made. 95% of everything ASUS gets out the door.

Stop lying. You have constantly claimed that you've not asked people for BIOS dumps "for weeks" every time somebody mentions that you keep asking for them. New people mention it long after you say you haven't done it for weeks. It's been MONTHS since you started saying you "stopped asking for BIOS dumps weeks ago", despite new people showing up and saying it every now and then.

Good luck and if you need me for something I can do, you know where to find me.

> Prema entered contract with companies
> Companies selling his work are doing so with both his knowledge and his agreement
> Clevo is not sending Cease and Desist orders to companies rebranding with Prema's mod
> It is open knowledge which companies are allowed to use his mod for retail.

So in conclusion:
Is it morally wrong that some companies go the extra mile and get sales for having superior products, services, prices, or otherwise-attractive-reasons-to-buy-from-them? No.
Is it honest? Yup.
Is it legal? Clearly.

You on the other hand keep trying to get your hands on a copy of his work while not being willing to buy from a company that provides it... so you can reverse-engineer it to produce your own work. Which as you've admitted here:

You did not say "we don't know how to do it". You didn't say "we still need to figure out how to do it". You said, as quoted above, you don't know how PREMA did it... implying that your intent is to learn how he did it, so you can do it yourself, instead of trying to figure it out on your own. Saying you don't have RTX so you cannot test is a moot point, since nobody has it that does not already have a Prema mod for it, since it's not supported at all.

And finally:

How about other companies try to keep standards worth it? Why don't you ask OriginPC to lower their prices by $1000 each unit so it's more in line with everyone else, since they do literally 0 things other companies such as Sager don't do? Or how about Falcon Northwest, who insists "100°C on all CPU cores is perfectly acceptable stress test results to ship" as part of their rigorous testing? What will you do for mySN/XMG who can't actually use the mod at all due to their extra close relationship with Clevo?

It's give and take, company politics, and offered services. You don't just show up and decide "I'm going to sell these, gimme the mod and it'll be fine".

And I'll just pre-emptively prevent you from arguing against my points made here by saying I'm not going to discuss what I said with you further. This is mostly a "corrective" post, not a discussion opener, because like I said at the top, this kind of thing is why you rarely see me speak here in the first place. I haven't stopped learning or improving myself, or trying to help companies that are willing to listen.

 

I am trying to redistribute? Seriously lol...from where this point is coming? You cumpare me without any reasons and proof like a stoler and now im listed as a stolers for many without any fact. Asking something is far different from delivering. Thats why i dont like lyers and people who are spreading fake fact.
First of all i disrespect lyers and stolers, and mostly redistribuing not personnal work. I am against that conduct.
The option of an unlcoked bios are easy to unlock, Prema is doing far more than just unlocking some options.
No it is not allright to sell a project when you are not the creator! Redistribute for free yes but not making profit! The code is from clevo and Prema ad option and might have edited some, you got it? It's is like selling a mod from a game. I want to see how a creator will react if a user is selling a mod. Yes he create the mod, but the origin of the code is not. Orherwize you create your own game, you create your own laptop with own bios.
As i said, some eyes are closed, i would be interested to see the answer from clevo governance and only from them i will stop debating about the legality or not of feeling force to buy from a prema list to have the honor of owning a prema clevo bios mod

 

But you already have their answer....You just haven't made sense of it....

 

Thats funny because again, you spread withput evidence, i totally agree you can ask a moderator my personnal conversation, because i ask to ONLY 3 members! So you spread ******** saying for months!! They can all come and share conversation and replies!!! But you cant admit the true evidence because the reality is not so a spicey story!
Then i am french speaker so i use a basic english and decoding words by words is not good because my english is limited.
And yes of course i want to learn, how do you think studies are working? From just copy paste without understanding? Make me laugh of course i want to learn like we learn a code to understand. Some people do job withput inderstanding without using the brain while some others jobs need creativity and basic understanding. How do you think prema has done his job? Oh yes he just hex millions of line without copy or learning anything, his knowledges come from the moon lol.

 

I ask 3 members they bios and once one answer me is prema, i clarify and i send to the 2 others i dont need the bios before they even reply a sentence. And for asking even if it was prema or not, i am judge like a stoler. If this is not stupidity, what is it then? Now because of this im a stoler and someone who want to sell not personnal work. Again, spreading for spreading make me laugh about short conclusion.

 

hmmmm comparing Prema Mod to a simple Game Mod, insufficient analogy imho. its more like a complete recoding of an existing game, say, the Black Mesa HL2 full game remake with a complete engine overhaul which, of course, is based on the original HL2 game. sure, both share the same roots, but thats about it.

coming from a biotech background i can tell you that we as humans are 90 % genetically identical to cats and share 85 % of our DNA / Proteome with friggin mice (thats also one major reason why those lil buggers come in handy during pharmaceutical studies)

From personal experience, id say Prema Mod changes way more than just 10-15% of the stock Clevo Bios coding, and to see what a meager 10-15% can already do in terms of... wait for it....coding!

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Since i promised yesterday to do some benchmarks on how the CPU behaves on z170 chipset!

BIOS has loaded defaults in place so no undervolt was done or any tweak to the CPU so far!

Throttlestop is also Off so i didn't took any printscreen from it since i'm not using any settings from it!

So here are the benchmarks:

Cinebench r20:

Spoiler

Time Spy Extreme:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/34905574?

Time Spy:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/34905116?

Firestrike Ultra:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/34905639?

Firestrike Extreme:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/34905259?

Firestrike:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/34905345?

Any other benchmark you guys want done?

 

You're right I was not in the laptop scene at the time so just looking at the form factor had made me assume that it would be plug and play. at least the design of the card was the same so you could attempt using them in older machines like the M17x R4. without the MSI 1060/1070 being in the form factor it is we wouldnt be able to get a 1070 working in some of those older systems that have the cooling capacity to support them. The point I was going for is the form factor was the same so even with driver mods and such it was still technically possible, even if it was a pain in the ass. unlike today where we have all these wonky looking MXM GPUs.

 

Substantial similarity is not the relevant principle here. Prema's not reverse engineering a duplicate product intended to confuse the market.

Every time someone (Prema) generates an intangible output (new and/or edited code - Premabios) they are generating intellectual property that belongs to them. However, claims from the author seeking to enforce their rights relating to that IP will not be recognised unless the editing was done with permission of the original author (Clevo who can pass it through to the reseller) to use THEIR IP (base code) in that way, basically the 'clean hands' doctrine of equity replicated in IP law. That permission can be limited by conditions, e.g. "you can edit as you wish, but you cannot charge money for the end product" or any other kind of restriction (which is usually how it works for game mods).

Thing is, we don't know the terms of agreements between Clevo, resellers, and Prema, and they are well within their rights to keep the details private (commercial in confidence). But when things involve businesses, and are presented upfront and openly transparent to the market, and nobody makes known a complaint that their IP is being infringed, you can usually assume everyone's all above board acting in accordance with their agreements.

It'd be nice if Prema's mods were available for all like they used to be, but this is the way it's developed and we know what led to the change, so make sure the blame is appropriately directed to the scumbag that is responsible.

 

Hi Everyone,
Could somebody share a 1070 gsync vbios which works with dsanke mod bios? I am not quite sure what bios I need to have for 8th gen cpu (8700k). thx

 

Link in OP has vBios for your gpu.

 

Just is case this still isn't clear to everyone, yet:

Whenever you see a Partner Shop asking for a fee for the Mods or increased product pricing it is only to cover their higher risk involving RMA cases. None of that goes to me. They are not even allowed to sell you Mods as per our agreements.
Eurocon is the only company that has been repeatedly breaching this agreement by selling standalone Mods to user and as a result have been removed from the Partner program ever since.

In all the years I have been helping this and other communities, not in any mail, PM or private conversation have I asked a single user to send me X amount for any of my customizations or any of the time spent in helping them.
Everything has been donation based from day one and even if most of the time it meant not to receive a single cent in return.

Spoiler

 

i can confirm that based on almost 8 years of shared tweaking experiences with Prema hes never asked, i just try and give a lil sumthin sumthin here and there as my current finances allow, basically a gesture of appreciation for his time and efforts. everything ive donated so far ive received tenfold in tweaking fun and extra performance! (not to mention hilarious conversations at times )

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Ohh, thank you! Do I need programmer to flash 870km1 to "tm1"? I would flash with 6700k, then replace the cpu. As far as I understand, this bios is backwards compatible. Of course prior I would upgrade the vbios.

 

Most likely you would need one. Flash the vBios first then use the programmer

 

OK, no problem, I can ask support for that One more question. What FHD 144HZ can I buy to keep gsync? In the km1-g the screen 75hz gsync. Thx

 

Nothing is wrong receiving even asking donations, nothing is wrong helping people, but selecting companies to make available a mod is honest? This is call business so if you don't have the aggreement from clevo, and mostly if you bios contains some line of clevo code, you are not under the law. You know what i am speaking.. it's the same situation if someone use your mod bios, hex it then redistribute with other companies. How clevo and yourself will feel? Because it is not just your work, but also from clevo. It's like owning a car, you stage the engine, remap it or make any other customs. you will make a great job but claiming is your full work is true and not, who built the original engine, got it?
Me i stop starting to express myself because the truth about when i was asking a bios is cumpared as i stole and redistribute a work from many members, this can only happen when thirstyness of notoriety from goats is present.
I am here and i stay in my point of view as when i registered in this forum: free non selective knowledge sharing between members and non members forever.
It is my point of view, i express myself and members are all free to debate or not, to accept or not. If someone loose the words and feel to start lying just for likes, then maturity should be the next objective he has to follow.

 

Dunno if it will help but for my model I bought this one and have g-sync on it: AUO B173HAN03.1

It's 144hz with g sync. Plus your gpu needs to be the g-sync version and cpu needs to support it too (which the 6700k does since i had one too and now bought the 8700k).

 

Thx for your kind answer:
it would be 870km1-g (currently with gsync)
8700k + 144hz gsync screen

 

Should work. The LCD will work for sure and g-sync worked for me not in the official bios from Clevo but works great in this modified bios

 

I

already tried Dsanke bios from a km1G. Flashing good in bios and gsync was working with 120hz 2k panel. Just update first your 1070gpu. It will also work with original bios.

 

Great news thx. I prefer FHD for gaming, 2k would be too much nowdays for games with 1070

 

The one I told you (AUO B173HAN03.1) is 1080p 144hz with g-sync

 

Great, thank all of you for your prompt reply, I will get the AUO...3.1, and let us see

 

Let us know if everything is working when you receive it

 

One more thing, sorry I have forgotten. Do I need to flash the EC as well? or only km1 bios from the one post link? THX

 

As for the EC flash the latest official

 

[QUOTE="DARCODER, post: 10887409, member: 406224"Nothing is wrong receiving even asking donations, nothing is wrong helping people, but selecting companies to make available a mod is honest? This is call business so if you don't have the aggreement from clevo, and mostly if you bios contains some line of clevo code, you are not under the law. You know what i am speaking.. it's the same situation if someone use your mod bios, hex it then redistribute with other companies. How clevo and yourself will feel?
This is exactly what you are trying to do, so how does it feel?

Because it is not just your work, but also from clevo. It's like owning a car, you stage the engine, remap it or make any other customs. you will make a great job but claiming is your full work is true and not, who built the original engine, got it?
Your analogies need serious work. You rebuild a Chevy engine from the ground up, it's still a Chevy block, but none of the other parts are Chevy. The pride comes from "rebuilding a Chevy block" not taking credit for making the block. SMH!

Me i stop starting to express myself because the truth about when i was asking a bios is cumpared as i stole and redistribute a work from many members, this can only happen when thirstyness of notoriety from goats is present.

Not even sure what this means?

I am here and i stay in my point of view as when i registered in this forum: free non selective knowledge sharing between members and non members forever.

That's fine, just don't force your overly opinionated ideas on any other forum members that do not want to listen.

It is my point of view, i express myself and members are all free to debate or not, to accept or not. If someone loose the words and feel to start lying just for likes, then maturity should be the next objective he has to follow.[/QUOTE]

You been throwing that lying around allot lately and that generally happens when you are lying. So are you? I'm just asking because guilty people tend to do exactly what you are doing.

 

Do I need to do the cpu pin mod? Some say it is not necessary...

 

I did it for the 8700k. Didn't try the CPU without it and it's running smoothly

 

It will burn if you don’t isolate the pins.

 

You been throwing that lying around allot lately and that generally happens when you are lying. So are you? I'm just asking because guilty people tend to do exactly what you are doing.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what im trying to do you are saying? That i want to do? Stoling or making profit? I stop reading your stupidity. You deserve an awards for spreading bs without any evidence of fact. Show me where or how i share a non personnal work? Look i already share with my personal finding how to edit a bios. Thats make me laugh,
I dont have to express an opinion of analogy because when people are not mind open enaugh to understand and make a dissociation of what is an evidence and what isnt, you just proove nothing. You just write to express fakness. So for you im a stealer and not honest and mostly a liar. Great to hear without fact.... how wait i ask 3 members their bios, it is so bad, it is so illegal. So smart analogy.

 

QUOTE="DARCODER, post: 10887671, member: 406224"]You been throwing that lying around allot lately and that generally happens when you are lying. So are you? I'm just asking because guilty people tend to do exactly what you are doing.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what im trying to do you are saying? That i want to do? Stoling or making profit?
No, that's not what I said. Please quit making up stuff.

I stop reading your stupidity.
This is pretty much you in nutshell.

You deserve an awards for spreading bs without any evidence of fact.
Cut it out with the evidence and fact Nonsense. All your err umm facts and over the top nonses is coming from you with no proof backing it up whatsoever.

Show me where or how i share a non personnal work?
Reread it. It says you are trying. key word "TRYING" but you are failing miserably!

Look i already share with my personal finding how to edit a bios. Thats make me laugh,
And yet you are in here begging from others to further your exploits. And trying to bad mouth someone who actually knows what they are doing. Your over there playing guess work. Not to mention all the machines you have already helped brick. Not to mention on some of the Chinese websites where said bios brick their systems.

I dont have to express an opinion of analogy because when people are not mind open enaugh to understand and make a dissociation of what is an evidence and what isnt, you just proove
I not here to prove anything as of yet, just point out your inconsistency. So tell the truth and point us to the people who already burnt up their systems and are looking for your help in fixing them, but wait? You don't know how to. So cut it out already.

nothing. You just write to express fakness.
Pretty sure you're the fake one. I don't need to beg for mods and complain when they are not given to me. Then run around a forum trying to campaign against someone that does have the answers.
So for you im a stealer and not honest and mostly a liar.
I never said any of that so quit looking for sympathy. Although I did say you are TRYING, so there is that.

Great to hear without fact.... how wait i ask 3 members their bios, it is so bad, it is so illegal. So smart analogy.[/QUOTE]Again, you are not making sense. First understand the words before replying. If you do this then things will go better.

 

Thx, that I definately do not want

 

This is exactly what im trying to do you are saying? That i want to do? Stoling or making profit?
No, that's not what I said. Please quit making up stuff.

I stop reading your stupidity.
This is pretty much you in nutshell.

You deserve an awards for spreading bs without any evidence of fact.
Cut it out with the evidence and fact Nonsense. All your err umm facts and over the top nonses is coming from you with no proof backing it up whatsoever.

Show me where or how i share a non personnal work?
Reread it. It says you are trying. key word "TRYING" but you are failing miserably!

Look i already share with my personal finding how to edit a bios. Thats make me laugh,
And yet you are in here begging from others to further your exploits. And trying to bad mouth someone who actually knows what they are doing. Your over there playing guess work. Not to mention all the machines you have already helped brick. Not to mention on some of the Chinese websites where said bios brick their systems.

I dont have to express an opinion of analogy because when people are not mind open enaugh to understand and make a dissociation of what is an evidence and what isnt, you just proove
I not here to prove anything as of yet, just point out your inconsistency. So tell the truth and point us to the people who already burnt up their systems and are looking for your help in fixing them, but wait? You don't know how to. So cut it out already.

nothing. You just write to express fakness.
Pretty sure you're the fake one. I don't need to beg for mods and complain when they are not given to me. Then run around a forum trying to campaign against someone that does have the answers.
So for you im a stealer and not honest and mostly a liar.
I never said any of that so quit looking for sympathy. Although I did say you are TRYING, so there is that.

Great to hear without fact.... how wait i ask 3 members their bios, it is so bad, it is so illegal. So smart analogy.[/QUOTE]Again, you are not making sense. First understand the words before replying. If you do this then things will go better.[/QUOTE]
Again, spreading lies lies and not fact of evidence and switching the truth of speaking about the legitimity of a work to say helping members... you speak just for spreading words. I laugh for real, non sense and putting lies into a fake truthness by mixing some post from left and right. Im sad of you subjectivity. You can continue spreading bs and lying. My intention stay the same and i will never make profit or selecting who can access knowledges for the profit of others. Continue spreading if you feel good, i will stay in my point of view since you cant act using some true fact. You can continue your show but Dont use the word begging because its not true, you make me laugh, like i m begging lol again a fake fact. Pathetic you are, continue im interested what is your next case of explanation. Im very interested how you convert fakness. I think you will be a good members of the beleivers of the flat earth lol, your argumentation is very strong. Show me the way

 

Again, you are not making sense. First understand the words before replying. If you do this then things will go better.[/QUOTE]
Again, spreading lies lies and not fact of evidence and switching the truth of speaking about the legitimity of a work to say helping members... you speak just for spreading words. I laugh for real, non sense and putting lies into a fake truthness by mixing some post from left and right. Im sad of you subjectivity. You can continue spreading bs and lying. My intention stay the same and i will never make profit or selecting who can access knowledges for the profit of others. Continue spreading if you feel good, i will stay in my point of view since you cant act using some true fact. You can continue your show but Dont use the word begging because its not true, you make me laugh, like i m begging lol again a fake fact. Pathetic you are, continue im interested what is your next case of explanation. Im very interested how you convert fakness. I think you will be a good members of the beleivers of the flat earth lol, your argumentation is very strong. Show me the way[/QUOTE]
Your no one to prove anything too. And the minute I win or get something, I'll be more than happy to provide, but not for your amusement of using the words lie and fake and stolie or what ever it is your trying to say.

 

Could you perhaps take the argument to a different thread, or PM? It does seem to be rather off-topic and it is distracting. I'm getting notifications and it's just about your posts rather than something more useful.

 

because of fake spreading you are convinted to share without fact or base from any kind of evidence. That's what happen when there is a lack of mind opening and maturity.
As Philstopford mention, i will stop repying on this nice free sharing knowledge thread members who doesnt or not agree my point of view, pm is good as wel if a feeling of venom spreading is needed

 

You mean to tell me that you would rather not know. Use his advice and brick your laptop?