** 1070 laptop: "bd prochot" causing cpu throttling to 800MHz and stuttering **

I can get a 8850H and GTX1070 for 2200€ new, and my laptop cost 1900€...for me not is a problem give more 300€ for this new laptop in case that they give me the money but im just with doublts what model i will choose.

 

MSI Portugal has given some laptops due to their own screw-ups during repair..

Exceeding 30 days would be one reason to force them into the wall, maybe..

I have seen that the direct MSI contact is not visible on Zwame anymore, given that I'm banned there no idea if its now visible to registered users, or if they bailed that place..

IF they are around there, nag the MSI forum account.

If not, nag the support/repair center.

When they get tired of you, they might give you a new laptop.

 

The reason why MSI left the zwame forum was only because they not paid to still doing publicity on the forum

 

The forum also benefits from having brands represented there, asking for payment is a bit iffy IMHO, but that is way off-topic.

 

"A MSI decidiu não renovar a publicidade aqui no forum e por isso a secção foi desligada. Não existe qualquer teoria de conspiração e nem faz sentido numa marca como a MSI fazer o que apontas. "

One of the comments to @streetunder_

 

@senso Tbh... I did not need to nag anyone for the offer I got. Neither did I have to force anyone "into the wall" about the problem. I was simply being patient and kept inquiring about updates on the repair process. I did not expect an upgrade nor asked for it and neither should anyone else. It is an overkill that they are giving me and it wiped my doubts about msi support for forever. I also own an x299 motherboard from them and a desktop gtx1060 and an amd 6770 (long out of warranty, abused daily for past 8 years+) and all of these have been perfect since day 1. I still think they should keep the Polish repair center under closer surveillance and improve the speed of communication, but now I feel they have my back if something goes wrong as long as I communicate to them properly about it. That goes for the Dutch support though so I can't speak for any other country.
MSI decided all on their own to offer me the gt75 and I was a little shocked, expecting some drawbacks such as reduced warranty time etc, but none of that is happening so I am just nervous for it to arrive now like a kid before Christmas.

 

I know that new laptops, as well as backpacks, plush dragon's, mouses, etc, have been given to costumers due to laptops being for repairs over 30 days, as far as I know, the MSI director would make the repair center pay for a brand new laptop if a laptop was in for repairs for more than 30 days and there was no justifiable reason to that(and the only one was, MSI warehouse was out of parts).

If some tech didn't do it, or it legit got forgotten in a corner due to a lack of parts to test in that week, the costumer would be given a new laptop.

When I worked in the laptop repair world, a client asking even once a week if its done was called nagging, because in most cases the repair center was no reason to be holding the repairs, its lack of parts that delay everything.

Cases like heats playing X game, stutters, random X thing happens was threated on a case by case, and it would depend on a lot of factors on how the techs would threat each case.

A brand-new-ish laptop with stutters would usually be given a new image, run some tests, and off it goes, if client complains again its looked up a bit better, because lots of expensive laptops are bough to new kids/tech iliterate people that dont even install/update drivers.

Given how many times you called/emailed them, and how many times your, and other laptops where sent back in, and dont get me wrong, you where nagging them

 

@senso The only reason my laptop was missing for 3 months is because the repair center installed a limiting VBIOS that hides the problem and because Polish center was not communicating that well. Even Dutch support had to wait for almost 3 weeks for a response from them after I explained the problem again to their own Dutch engineer. They were super kind and patient with me and I swear I did not nag, I was always super polite. The person I call here is the call support, it's his job to answer calls and talk to people - only ever heard 1 guy too so I doubt they have more than 1. Plus I am freaked out of calling in Dutch since it's not my native language so trust me, I only call when I have to.
Also I did my best to educate myself on everything before attempting to talk to them, I know how to clean install drivers using DDU, install vbios, kill windows update in services to test specific version and prevent it from messing up drivers, enable it and update everything and test again, update bios, chipset drivers, downgrade the drivers... I can clean install windows 10, make full hdd backups, I know how to solve problems with resetting windows, exactly what program takes care of what, I know what registry to edit to make some annoyances go away, read out ec firmware... And I can also track performance via msi afterburner and hwinfo in real time on screen! I swear before I bought this laptop I did not even know something like vbios existed. I do now. Does it help me in my psychology education? Hell no, but it sure cost me a lot of time and effort.
The least I expect is when I call once every 2-3 weeks after the laptop is gone for more than 30 days that I get some help and support when stuff goes wrong on hardware side. I have not learned how to diagnose hardware issues yet, maybe it's time to get some special equipment and open my own repair shop...?

 

It was, and is their own failure, not having the laptop with you for 3 months alone is enough in the EU for them to be legally obliged to return you the money that you paid for the laptop, or to give you an equal or better laptop as replacement.

Being strict with the law, after 30 days they should have stopped and said here is a) your money, b) a brand new, sealed system NO refurb(some brands send out refurbs as compensation/replacing systems; that is a big on the illegal side).

I more or less followed this topic, you did(as did other members with similar problems) way more than should be expected by a costumer, hope you at least enjoyed to learn how to do, and what all those things are, but buying a laptop shouldn't force the buyer into learning all that and sometimes even more.

I would have called the consumer protection long before 3 months, after 30 days MSI/the repair center in cause is at fault and they can be fined due to not complying with EU consumer protection laws.

I know that my English is atrocious and on this legalese speak I fail even more, and I might have passed the wrong image/tone of speech on the other post.

I just wanted to share, that from the repair centre side, they can't do much, and need to wait for the big boys from corporate to reply about what/how to handle each case.

The repair centres are also usually over-worked due to schedules imposed, and a system can be forgotten after one week, but it doesn't reduce their blame.

 

@senso either way I am happy with how it was resolved. It is an amazing upgrade I did not expect no matter what went wrong or well.
Also keep in mind the 3 months were in total 2x warranty claims (so it was not there for 3 months in a row, I had it at home for about 1 day in between and it traveled a lot too).
I will post a review of the new laptop and hopefully forget all this. And yes actually I feel kinda smart now when it comes to laptops and pc's, I can even beat my boyfriend now knowledge-wise. With hardware I suck though, my hands shake and I tend to get static so I would not ever open the laptop myself, he is there for that. ^^
Thank you for your input, I totally agree that withholding a product from the customer for reasons that are not valid enough is a no-no. I suggested to them once that if they cannot make it work I would rather have money back. I honestly do not feel like I gained that much in the end as plan B was a PC with 8700k and 1080 which would cost me around 1700 euro (I do already have peripherals and ssd since I had to buy them to use bf's old PC when the laptop was gone). So yeah, now I am getting something that is still less powerful than that but more expensive ^^
Now I am off the forums till the new and shiny thing arrives.

 

Heliada you got one hell of a deal. It was unfortunate that you had the issue to begin with but man a GT75 is such a great upgrade. When do you receive it? I am interested in your impressions.

 

@ryzeki well it was sent from msi Wednesday which is 2 days ago. It first has to go through the reseller's headquarters and then to their store in my town. I'd say next week Wednesday or Thursday is a good guess. I will review it and post gaming videos for sure. It will have stock factory paste so the 6 core i7 might run hot but I asked and liquid metal voids warranty here. My only choice is then sth like gelid gc extreme. Got a new tube of that in the drawer so if it comes to it I'll have to try it.

 

Be sure to tweak it as suggested by @Falkentyne to ensure the best possible temps. Out of the box the voltage might be crazy high which will result in higher than desired temps.

 

@ryzeki we'll see. It's not the i9 version but i7-8750h which is like the lowest 6 core chip that came out, still plenty for me I think. Might be different with voltages as I swear there are no reviews of that one so can't confirm ^^

 

Killing time before the new laptop arrives.... seems MSI in the Netherlands truly goes a step forward to their customers:
I am happy I live in this country sometimes. Loads of msi hardware in that little short video and plenty fun activities.
I might even go check the gaming day out if I am free that day this year. No idea if I have to work yet. Seems totally fun getting to try newest hardware and VR and stuff without having to buy it at first. Who knows maybe I'd enjoy it ^^

 

OMG guys it happened. There was a mysterious package on my seat magically when I went to the car!!!! What could it be...?

 

A Jokebook?

 

I have checked my car twice for one but nothing yet!

 

Same, still looking at my empty seat

 

Last update in this thread: gt75 8rg that I got in exchange for the bd prochot-ing gt72vr 6re runs AMAZING. There is 0 throttling when gaming but it is even louder at load and runs a little hot. I will be addressing those issues later, same as missing gsync (need to update bios). Other than that, just wow. Super impressed.

In regards to EC: As Falkentyne suspected, working msi laptops should have "9E" in EC register C5 and "C1" under register C6. It is an EU model so there is no discrepancy with US ones in that. Likely there was something wrong with the motherboard in the gt72vr since the issue persisted through several bios versions, resets, CMOS resets, EC versions, EC resets, windows installs etc.
Most important is: this is not an MSI issue, neither is it all gt72vr's being faulty. This is a question of few faulty motherboards getting out of the factory and I think msi handled it gracefully with all that sent it for rma (despite taking some extra time). I am completely satisfied.

 

Congrats on your new hell of a beast laptop

 

I still want to see someone with a USA GT72VR 7RE EC RAM dump in RW Everything to see if those EC registers at EC RAM locations C5 and C6 have 9E and C1, or if they have 00 and 00 there.
Because I find it hard to believe that NO GT72VR had this but EVERY other MSI laptop ever since the GT60 had it !!! MSI recycles code. Even the 16L13 has NOS (battery boost).
Because in that case, EVERY user in the world would have had BD Prochot throttling on a GT72VR and this issue would have been raised long ago, rather than so late. One person NOT in europe posted his EC RAM dump and it had 00 and 00 in those locations also. Maybe I should just forget about it and accuse MSI of producing a defective laptop. But some things I just can't let go.

And it's bothering me to no end. Maybe because I have nothing else to do in my life except suffer.

GT60 EC RAM (battery is removed; "41" in EC RAM register C6 means NOS is disabled and system is being throttled.

 

@Falkentyne you should totally let it go. You can't do anything about it Anyway since your gt72vr did in fact drain battery (you said you had it for a little while), then no, it is not possible ALL of them are like this. Also the older gt72 and gt72s are actually listed on msi website as having hybrid power officially and it is the same motherboard. Maybe something got corrupted in firmware at some point in the poor things' lives that no amount of resets and reinstalls solves, maybe msi will figure it out and release some fix for it. Or they won't. Who knows? I just hope that whoever else has such laptop, that they find out within warranty. That's all.

 

If only I could rep 2 times in a row.....

 

I will rep him her. Why bother anymore? Let all the Jokes run into the deapest sea and you should never ever look back. Move on to the bright side of life. I'm sure you know what I mean.

 

Her....not him.

 

sorry for my bad English first.I'm a Chinese.
hey,FaIkentyne.I am a owner of GT72S laptop with i7 6700HQ and 1070.I met the low-frequency problem like @heliada recently.
Thought the problem may isn't about BIOS or EC.It's just a design fault by MSI.
Low CPU frequency is the just first step.After this you may met something like power plan changed between AC/battery when GPU load is full with lower monitor brightness.Finally you can not boot your laptop anymore.
This problem happened since HM87 Chipset productions sold, including HM170/CM236(GT72S-1782/1783) and HM175(GT72VR-1785) .(HM170/CM236/HM175 are almost same,the only difference is HM175 cut some additional components like thunder bolt,DIMM slots etc.)
It's a design fault about power supply.

In China,MSI has so many production lines,so someone who paid to repair MSI laptops could get PCB design drawings,and they told me this problem caused by MSI using cheap components on mainrborad (maybe Capacitance?they wouldn't tell me details),they are not reliable. This design fault existed and affected HM170/CM236(GT72S-1782/1783) and HM175(GT72VR-1785).
GT73 and laptops after GT72VR are not affected because they changed design.
I sent my laptop to repair last week.After they replaced components and tested for me.The frequency-drop problem is improved.The lowest frequency just stopped at 2.5GHZ,close to default clock without any changes in BIOS.Maybe two or three days later the laptop will get back.I'll do more tests and post result.
By the way,Windows update and Dragon center could be culprit too.Uninstall Dragon center solved some people's problem,worth a shot.Dragon center is like XTU,so it would override options in BIOS and make problems happen.

 

That's what I've been saying the whole time, faulty motherboard. Might also explain the coil whine I had that changed with cpu load and frequency. I also read about multiple msi desktop motherboards with bd prochot problem but even more severe, as in cpu staying at 800mhz permanently. The thing is, in China they might actually fix the problem (if you ask me throttling to 2.5 still means there is something wrong) but I know for a fact here in eu they would just replace the motherboard with another one which also has the problem or might have it in the future. China is the msi's headquarters, the factory is there too and they have a lot more knowledge than anyone else about the laptops. The question is whether they admit to the faulty design and honour warranties for this even after the warranty is actually over. I don't see that happening. Same as I don't see them recalling the faulty ones in big numbers. It won't happen and most people won't know till the warranty is over I believe.

 

Throttling to 2.5GHZ means problem still there,right.But I thought it would be something about software.I remembered that It's been a long while MSI stopped selling GT72S or GT72VR.GT72VR 1070 version pushed in 2016 and discontinued in 2017.That was why you can't see recalling.Maybe all problems are solved during warranty.I don't know why in other region they keep selling till 2018.And at start,model 1782/1783/1785 in China mostly is not designed for 10 series card.It's designed for 9 series mobile video card.Although TDPs are almost same(980M TDP@100W M1070 TDP@115W),but they didn't re-design motherborad,so performance problems happened.
Chinese consumers give MSI a nickname"cheap-MICRO STAR INTERNATIONAL" is only because they cut important design to reduce cost before.
And another problem is,something fault existed in video card too.Maybe you've just got Ver 1.0 MSI 1070 with GT72VR.It's the first batch,and MSI fxxxed it up.The earlier 1.0 1070 used Micron memory and to improve performance,they set memory frequency and Voltage too high.This also including desktop version GTX1070.That's really terrible.Many people sued MSI in the Consumer Association.After that,they released VBIOS to fix it,but it's not exactly same to yours,this VBIOS wouldn't change performance(lower voltage etc.),but made it more stable.
Not so long,they produced 1070 Ver1.2 with Samsung memory particles.No problem.
Maybe just because a lot of Chinese people know knowledge about electronic engineering,so MSI can't trick them and stopped producing.I see that in China most people have GT72VR are with 1070 Ver1.2,only a few people got ver1.0 and they solved problems.
I guess MSI noticed the problem,but they keep selling in Eu or other regions just because almost no one posted problem,and MSI think they could trick others.Maybe in China,Consumers' Association is so strict,anything wrong with productions may lead punishment to MSI,so they are really careful.But in Eu seems they are Indifferent.If you didn't keep contact MSI,maybe you just can only get your Video updated with vbios and worse performance.
Also,some other laptop model like p775dm1(clevo)also have this problem.I saw a guy own a I7 5th Gen CPU with GT72 sent email to TAIWAN HQ,and engineer wrote a special BIOS fixed problem.Maybe just something wrong with Intel too,not only MSI.

 

Uh Oh...pinging @Mr. Fox , @Papusan @Kittys you guys had better have a look at this. Looks like all of you were right....wow.....just wow wow wow.....

 

And one more thing,problem fixed since GT73,so you don't need to worry that same thing would happen to your new laptop.Also I suggest that don't put MSI laptop to your first choice when you decide to buy a new laptop.Before producing GT70,MSI is not competitive.GT72 made MSI competitive,but they left a lot of problems unsolved until GT73 pushed.Clevo machine is better.，just don't know their service in EU is good or not.

I just found another guy in China use clevo 751dm with 1070 have same problem long time ago,but it was caused by Nvidia driver.He tested power usage when using 375.xx(newest one that time,but cause frequency drop) and 375.06(stable).
375.xx







375.06:


see?Nvidia driver may cause Power usage become lower and lead to CPU low frequency too.So what I want to say is that the frequency problem may caused by many reason.Normally hardware is reliable and stable(except MSI's).Try to use Display Driver Uninstall or check "clear install"option may fix the problem too.Nvidia driver is unstable sometimes because every card's Asic Quality is different.Updating may cause performance problems to those Low-Asic Quality cards.If you are not interested in newest games,try not to update Nvidia driver.You can check reddit forum ( https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/)to know if the latest driver performance well.

 

@Kevin@GenTechPC

I remember when you asking me if i already sent the laptop to MSI, i decided send yesterday and not was with reseller...i sent myself the laptop and wil arrive at MSI Center on the 16/05...will left feedback when i got a response from them, anyways they promised that not will send the laptop with a Vbios or other camouflage method.

@k1ny

Thanks for your report also, i was the first showing this problem here in NBR and @heliada was the first in MSI fóruns...there is no others reports with this issue in web on msi laptops.

 

I read all posts few days ago since I met the same problem.If my post could help you,that's great.Keep pushing MSI guys and request for a new model MSI laptop.It's the only way to completely solve the problem.Old models really suck,they just treat consumers like fool.

 

After I got my laptop back,I'll do more tests and post results here.Frequency problem seems like an emergency,though power supply is not reliable.Everything is fine before,really strange.

 

Try to use imgur.com (popular image site) to post images if you can access it through china.
Some links like baidu cannot be seen by American users here. It would make things easier

 

Sorry,didn't realize that.I forgot the damn GFW.Next time l will use google+ or sth to save image.

 

@k1ny please check your private message. I have a request for you. It is important. maybe you can help where other have failed.
(yes it is about the "Unlocked" EC for MSI Gt73VR 7th gen (not 6th gen)), you will find some very interesting information.

 

Pedro, glad that you decided to go with that route and we are all with you here so hopefully MSI takes care of you.

 

Exactly. And this was from my post Wednesday...

 

@k1ny man I have to disappoint you. The problem is not drivers at all. I tried on several versions of windows, factory image of the system, clean install of the system from usb, drivers that came with the laptop, drivers on msi website, newest drivers on nvidia website, drivers from nvidia in between... all reinstalled with ddu. BD prochot persisted. It is not software related at all.
It also persisted through different bios versions and ec firmware versions and their resets to defaults (cmos/ec reset).
It is also not related to the gpu and cpu itself. GPU was 100% stable with samsung memory (at least I had that one) and I could even overclock it stable over 2000MHz running gpu benchmarks all day long. Never had a single crash.
CPU was also perfectly stable at 4GHz or even more, running cpu benchmarks all day long, not even breaking a sweat.
Nothing was wrong at all (in fact it was the most amazing laptop I could imagine aside from horrendous software and drivers) until the total system power draw got high - this points to problems in power delivery, voltage or motherboard in my opinion. In the end it all amounts to: the motherboard was f--ed. MSI agreed with me after I explained to what is happening and how the laptop should behave with a link to perfectly working ge73vr with 7700HQ and gtx 1070 just to convince them it is faulty.

And nah, the laptops are not sold in 2018 in EU. I bought the last gt72vr 6re with i7-6820HK in the whole country (at least as far as reputable shops go) back in May 2017. I just did not know there were problems as I did not have a game that would use cpu to 100%. I got AC:Origins as a promotion with samsung ssd back in december 2017 and since then I have been back and forth with forums and warranty till NOW.
Installing the limiting vbios avoids the issue as it lowers the voltage/power draw of the system by a good amount. Many already use it because of the crashing 1.0 cards so they will never know of bd prochot.
PS. the gt72 or gt72s both are listed as using hybrid power, while all gt72vr's with bd prochot problem CANNOT use it, at all due to missing EC values. Clearly something is wrong and since reflashing EC does not solve it, it means the EC is probably uncapable of detecting something on the motherboard and it all goes to hell.
The only solution is to: 1. replace motherboard with working one and hope it stays working
2. solder a working part on the motherboard
3. smash it to 1000 pieces and get a PC.

There is no software fix and if the laptop still throttles to base clock, that likely means the bd prochot was just disabled, as that is the exact result I got when disabling it in throttlestop.

 

100% correct.
Properly working MSI laptops ever since GT60 will have EC RAM register value "9E" in register location C5, and EC RAM register value "C0" or "C1" in EC RAM Register C6. C0 means the system is idle and C1 means some sort of load is requested somewhere.

if the value in EC RAM register C6 changes to 40 or 41 (same thing, idle or load), it means that HYBRID POWER is DISABLED for some reason and the system *WILL NOT* draw power from the battery at heavy load. This will cause system enforced throttling to cut power to the CPU if a certain "power threshold" is bypassed. That power threshold is, funny enough, the exact point where the system would "begin" to start using battery power. Things that can make EC register C6 be 40 / 41 are: Battery is unplugged, or battery is below 30%, or someone for some reason decides to manually input a value in EC RAM register C5 to a value of 80 or below. These throttling flags being on or off exist due to certain "checks" in the EC firmware, that I BELIEVE are stored in text strings (why? i don't know. Maybe because the unlocked EC, which NO ONE HAS, has them set to 0) in the direct EC firmware file under a "Throttle Trip" flag, as so:

CPU_CrtT = 1.CPU_ThtlT = 1.CPU_ThtlT = 0.SYS_CrtT = 1.SYS_ThtlT = 1.SYS_ThtlT = 0

The 1's and 0's mean certain conditions can turn throttle on or off. The CrtT stands for Current Trip, meaning the system will POWER OFF if a certain hardwired # of amps is drawn by the CPU or system combined. This only affects people trying to pull too much amps through the CPU trying to achieve super high overclocks. Like someone in this thread (guess who).

Since the very old GT60 laptop even has the EC values 9E and C0 in registers C5 and C6, the fact that the affected Gt72VR's have "00" and "00" there is troubling. Because having hybrid power disabled by having EC Register C6 set to 40 does NOT cause BD prochot on any of the other systems. It causes POWER LIMIT throttling of the CPU to 45W, then 25W (and then if necessary, to 800 mhz), which you might "think" is the same thing, but it isn't, because at least on those systems, you can "find a way" to turn ON hybrid power again (there's a way to force hybrid power on even if the battery is disconnected, by tricking the EC but this doesn't work at all on @heliada 's old system. The EC Trick would 'force' EC Register C6 to be C0/C1 even if the battery is disconnected. But this is impossible with C5 not even being used

 

I tested the new laptop gt75 8rg thoroughly on stock settings. The noise is bad, the temps are awful (up to 90 degrees on cpu and 85 on gpu with stress testing both at the same time - room temp of 23 or 24... after the stress test it feels more like 27 haha, it's a mini heater).... but the performance is actually up to par with a desktop. According to HWinfo, the gpu can pull up to 217W and CPU up to 95W or so. Now don't ask me how is all that powered through the poor 330W brick that is meanwhile getting very hot under my desk. I noticed no throttling even when benchmarking cpu+gpu at the same time.
I can assure everyone that battery does in fact drain slowly while gaming so whatever msi says the gt72vr was most certainly supposed to do the same. Next step: resolve some temperature problems.

 

90°C on cpu You need undervolt that hot dog...

Since you cant overclock on 8750H you should get a good undervolt on it.

 

Actually I can overclock it up to 4.1ghz on all cores but won't bother with these temps. I did some voltage tweaking already and it's now 81 degrees max. Still need to repaste though

 

8750H not is locked?

 

It is partially unlocked with max multiplier set to x41 (which means you can set it manually anywhere from 800MHz to 4.1GHz on all cores). It will not go beyond 4.1GHz but I think it is more than enough.
By default it is already up to 3.9GHz on all 6 cores so imho the difference of 200MHz is not worth the tinkering.

 

Well i think that will buy a laptop like you...i though that only 8850H was partially unlocked...since the machine will be only for gaming mostly, 8750H will do a good job in that case. Any throttling?

 

There is no throttling at all. Even running throttlestop benchmark and unigine heaven at the same time. CPU is dead set at 3.9GHz, GPU never drops below 1800 MHz. The battery does discharge when playing intensive games though. It needs repasting etc. I would not recommend to pay full price for it if you can live with a desktop at all - you will save several hundred euro and have a lot cooler and a whole lot less loud experience.
The gt75 is louder than the gt72vr by a LOT (maybe because the vents on the sides let all the noise reach your ears better). If I was offered money back I would get a pc, but I wasn't.

 

But people in this thread claim otherwise. Could be because of different brand?

I have mine with -122mv, yet it hits thermal limit (95º) within seconds Its repasted with gelid gc extreme, and thankfully, while playing it only hits 80s to mid 80s max.

 

Then something is wrong with either the heatsink or the mount. Or you just totally completely messed up hard.
Buy some pressure paper and test your mount.

Another trick if you can NOT buy pressure paper, is to do a ghetto test:
Remove HS from computer. Clean HS and CPU 100% fully and completely.
Apply a thermal paste "drop" about HALF the size of a rice grain. Smaller is better. Then mount the heatsink and screw it down (do NOT make ANY horizontal movements) then remove the screws and remove it. The spread pattern should show whether you have a imbalance or pressure problem or not.