The Official MSI GT70-2OD Owner's Lounge

I tried searching for 3DMark scores, and people seem to get so much higher for Ice Storm.

Is this a suitable score for 780M ? http://forum.notebookreview.com/att...icial-msi-gt70-2od-owners-lounge-untitled.jpg

 

Ice storm is more of a mobile phone benchmark so you can see some odd numbers, if your firestrike scores are ok I would not worry.

 

Could someone help me out on exactly which models offer super raid 2?

Was just informed from a reseller representative that only dragon editions have super raid 2 adapters in them? Is this correct? I thought the GT70 US001 model also has the super raid 2 adapter since it can support up to 3 ssd's in it? Anyone know clear answer to this?

Last piece of the puzzle needed before I pull the trigger on ordering a laptop...

 

The best thing you can do is call a few different resellers on their toll free numbers and get the information you need first hand plus compare the best deal offered by each reseller.

I believe that if a new Haswell powered GT60 or GT70 (C and D) has at least 1 mSATA SSDs in it a Super Raid 2 adapter is needed to hold it.

 

yeah I planned to do that during my lunch break tomorrow. But what I'm confused is, is the super raid 2 adapter even needed? If the GT70 OD-001US allows up to 3 SSD's to be customized, won't it still triple the speeds? Or is it capped or something? Why exactly is the super raid 2 adapter needed?

 

SSD performance depends largely on the SSD model and capacity with the 240/256GB being the sweet spot..Normally there's a difference in write performance going from 120/128GB to 240/256GB but with the new Crucial M500 the divide is between the 240GB and 480GB

The large sequential read and write numbers in synthetic benchmarking are important in only about 1% of daily disk access.About 80% of daily disk access is small file reads and writes with the majority being writes.So examine the 4K scores in all Queue Depths.

Warranties vary from SSD to SSD also.

It's very hard to find SSD reviews where the drive is tested while it's the C: primary boot drive in use with an OS and data installed.

Which mSATA or 2.5" SATA III SSD?

Do your homework and decide how much you're willing to spend if you want to replace the stock SanDisk X100 when buying the notebook or upgrading later.

Most performance differences are seen while benchmarking and not in actual daily normal use.

 

Ken is doing some upgrades for me now, which includes the new mSATA Plextor M5M series. I'll run HD Tune, CrystalDiskMark, and PCMark 8 on these SSD's soon.

Plextor M5M Series

Marvell vs. SandForce - Choosing the Best All-Purpose SSD Controller

 

Interesting! I am intrigued by the Plextor SSDs hmmmmm...

How good is a 6k GPU score in firestrike?

 

Sorry to say I find that linked review completely useless.

The testing is done on a 99.9% empty G: drive from a C:drive that's in safe mode.

Who buys an SSD for anything other than to be their primary boot drive.

Anvil storage Utilities SSD benchmark run on the raid0 array or single drive while it's the primary boot drive will yield more information to the benchmark screenshot viewer than any other synthetic benchmark suite.
http://www.ssdaddict.com/apps/AnvilBenchmark_RC6.zip

It should be run set to 100% incompressible and the set to 0Fill to show how it performs with both types of data.

 

Oh dear - just waiting for mine to be delivered and AnandTech releases an unpleasant review: AnandTech MSI GT70 Dragon Edition 2 Review
]

 

So just placed an order for a GT70-20D and looking forward to receiving it. I was just curious what people have seen for turnaround from the time the unit was ordered until it was shipped. Went with 2-day shipping so was hoping to have it before the weekend, but not sure how long the processing/build normally takes. If it is any help, it was ordered through GenTech.

 

Just ordered and excited to receive it. Curious what you folks have seen for turnaround times from when placing the order to when it was shipped? If it helps I ordered from GenTech

 

See that review, that is finally somebody saying something that corroborates my own personal experience with the GT70.

So what is up with all those benchmarks across the web and other threads on this forum, where the reviewers/benchmarkers are stating GPU doesn't go above 60C!? For example:

MSI GT70 Dragon Edition 2 and GT70 2OD- Review by Gentech - YouTube

Max temp of GTX780M after benchmarking ~ 60 C !?

Not in my experience...try 90C, after just one benchmark, with 80 C on the CPU (is this not insane temps for a CPU), and evidence of the CPU underclocking itself.

 

Anandtech just posted a review of the GT70 Dragon Edition.

98C for the CPU and GPU performance that is nowhere the real truth.

Way to mess up a review. I used to go to Anandtech for good reviews. This is just BS and mockery of MSIs GT70.
I wrote harsh replies to his review under the name "huaxshin". You guys should write something too.

AnandTech | MSI GT70 Dragon Edition Notebook Review: Haswell and the GTX 780M

 

Not so fast.

This review corroborates my personal experience with the GT70.

Perhaps you very early adopters have all been landed with units from the cherry picked samples sent out to review sites, but for me, one single run of 3D Mark sends CPU to 82C and GPU to 90C. That is after one single run! Perhaps the ugly truth is that the units which provided for the early review samples, that resulted in statements like 'temps no higher than 60C', will be the preserve of the only the very most fortunate GT70 owners. Perhaps insanely high temps, CPU throttling, followed closely by component degradation will be the norm for the majority.

Only time will tell.

 

Dude,
How is 98C even close to 82C?
The CPU doesn`t throttle at 82C...

You are the only person in this forum who complain about this notebook.
From DVD problems, to GPU problems to USB3.0 problems.
Nobody else have them.

Why haven`t you RMA it if you are not happy?

 

I'm skeptical. They blamed the entirety of the throttling issues on the cpu (which curiously wasn't a higher end model but whatever) on the single fan and unique cooling design.

I don't think having only a "single fan" system has ever been make or break for cooling a gaming laptop. Several 17 inch and All 15.6 inch and under gaming notebooks only have one fan, including the one's with 680's and 780's. Results like those make me think it reeks of a bad paste job imo. Poor job on Msi's part not sending them a top of the line quality control checked model though.

 

How is it not the truth? By the very definition that would mean they lied.

I don't think that's plausible.

 

They shouldn`t have put out a review with a notebook with a bad paste job. They should have asked for a new one from MSI, posted that the first review sample they got had a bad paste job. If the new replacement was working properly, then said it was a small error from MSI.
If the same paste problem occured on the new replacement, write harshly about it in the 2nd review.

Thats how I would have done it. Not "Ok, this notebook clearly have a bad paste job, but heck, atleast we can publish a new article although we know it does not represent the truth"

Exactly. People always think the GT70 have bad cooling, but they forget entirely about that the notebook have one of the biggest fan in the market that is capable of moving a lot of air. Plus the new improvement with the heatsink this year

 

That was 82C after 1 single run of 3D Mark. The Anandtech review had been stressing the laptop for hours, as any good reviewer should.

Here is a link to a UK forum where a Haswell/GTX780M owner is posting his temps:
Intel Haswell 4900MQ Temperatures Stock - Overclockers UK Forums

Although some other member says "nice", those temperatures are insane! TJMax is not the max safe operating temps, but the temps at which the CPUs will shut themselves down to avoid acutely damaging themselves. In practice, the max full load temp should be at least 30-35 C lower than the TJMax. i.e. 70-65C.

I am RMA-ing the laptop but am very concerned that the replacement that I get will have the exact same issue. Have been reading that the early Haswell CPUs that ended up in review units were all cherry picked and the mainstream of those CPUs are all running much much hotter. Perhaps MSI's cooling system simply never accounted for Intel's dishonesty regarding how hot their new CPUs would run and MSI is left with howling schoolboy error of a dual GPU-CPU cooling system?

 

Prime95, do you know what that is?

 

It would be good to test without the thermal bridge. MatTheCat, your experience does not reflect in the Anandtech review. Yours was actually worse because you were artifacting. Your case is something different.

High temps will most likely be the norm as these seem to have a regular pastejob instead of a particular one with good thermal paste and careful skill. I would advise people to buy through resellers and take advanage of promotions like GentechPC's to free paste job with IC24. All resellers offer paste change as far as I know, which will help reduce headaches. If you live in a place with low ambient temp, you will be more than fine even with stock paste.

Now everyone, don't get fighting over temps. My review will be done soon, but the truth is that this is a hot running laptop. I did not get nearly as high in temp compared to that Anand review, but I still reached the 90 degrees in both CPU and GPU after 3 hours. this was taxing the system with 100% utilization and I did not get throttling. Mine, of course, came with IC24 thanks to GentechPC on stock. I even went as far as repasting to corroborate and my temps remained the same in general. When not taxing the system, temps are very cool with CPU runing in the 40s range, tops 50 when browsing the net, office etc. I blame the fanspeed and the thermal bridge, which doesn't help at low fanspeeds.

Where it does help, is on high fan speed. Using turboboost with the laptop sent my stock clocks all the way to the 70s for CPU and 78-80C GPU. In a similar 3 hour scenario. Keep in mind all my testing was done on high ambient temp, which worsens my temps on its own.

As for CPU temps, 40 to 80 C in the core series are on the normal range. Most laptops operate in such range. Max temps see 100C or above reaching the target TJ and start downclocking in realtime to reduce heat. I tested this with the older 920xm and heavy overclocking. Once the CPU reaches the Target TJ the CPU clockspeeds keep going down until temps get controlled under the target TJ.

 

Temps generally above say 80C on a desktop CPU or GPU (often lower for a CPU), would be a matter for concern and the point at which overclocks would be scaled back

The reason for this is these sort of temps means rapid degradation of the components.

Why then are these temps 'ok' or 'normal' on a gaming laptop? Are the chips used in laptops special chips, super resistant to heat?

 

Because the desktop CPUs is cooled by massive fans in a big case while notebook CPUs is cooled maybe by one shared fan in a confined space.

If you are near the 90s, thats when you can begin to have some concerns

 

I understand that. This is why I can run my desktop Sandbridge 2600K on stock volts at 4.5Ghz and have the temps never go above 60C, no matter what.

But if 80C would be a dangerous temperature for a desktop CPU, regardless of cooling, why is it ok for a laptop CPU?

Why is it that now that all the cherry picked early Haswell 'review' CPU's have been snapped up, that 80C is just 'normal', when these temps would be damaging to earlier Intel CPUs with larger manufacturing process sizes and therefore more heat resistent?

 

Again, because the desktop have such great cooling abilities, you can raise some questions if you despite that reach high temperatures.
Notebooks doesn`t have this ability, so it is expected.

I don`t remember the danger zone now, but I think its 105C when the silicon is in danger. But the CPU usually shuts down before that happens

My GT70 with GTX 680M:
3610QM: After 3 hours of skyrim: Around 70C
680M: Skyrim: Tops 75C I think

Since the cooling have improved with the newest GT70, thats why I have hard time beliving the Anandtech review.

 

80 is not dangerous for a desktop CPU. It is not dangerous to any current Core i7 CPU of any series, or even Core in general series.

 

Hello again, just wanted to check one more thing before I confirm my purchase. Does the DisplayPort support a resolution of 2560x1600?

Thanks.

 

Looking forward to that full review ryzeki!

Will probably sway me to upgrade this gen or wait for maxwell.

 

Ok, I am not an expert, but this flies in the face of everything that I have learned about CPU's and safe temps.

Certainly on any tech forum where desktops are the core focus, 80C + is universally advised as being 'far too hot', although it is always pointed out that the TJMax is 100C, at which point the CPU will throttle itself.

 

Everyone advises against high temps, it's normal. But when a system runs at such temps from the get go, you get advised to mod or do something. It's always the same. There is no univeral law for temps, all CPUs/GPUs behave different, some have inherent low temps, due to yields, others very hot. Hardware is made to self protect agains catastrophic failure. If a person disables such measures to fiddle with the hardware, is another story. OVerclocking is not "officially" supported by most manufacturers or designers, yet it seems to get encouraged every now and then.

CPU throttling starts at 100C, and it's a controlled reduction in clockspeeds. The GPU also starts throttling at high temps, by first disabling Turbo boost and going back to "stock" clocks. The important thing is to always have a working system. IF it's not working, and you are artifacting, they need to fix that first. A system that runs at 80 degrees vs one that runs at constant 90 will perform the exact same. It's just that the latter will have quite a reduced overclock ceiling. Keep your machine clean and your laptop will last. We still have at the office some old core 2 duo laptops runong at 90 degrees using T7500 cpus, working still hard and going strong.

 

Thank you! I hope you will find it very useful and remember that I will keep updating and hearing comments to add more tests etc. I do believe I can make it tonight

 

On a different note, and perhaps my aesthetic tastes are different than the mainstream, but I'm not sure why (particularly the Alienware crowd) thinks the GT70 looks so tacky/ugly/gaudy/etc.

Perhaps the color scheme on the Dragon Edition won't appeal to some people, but just the regular build of the GT70 in black looks pretty great to me in the pictures. Kind of a similar look to the XPS laptops of a few years ago, which I owned and liked.

Personally I don't like the way Alienware laptops have ever looked (and I own a 14x) and have trouble understanding why they have this reputation for excellent design. They are chunky even by gaming notebook standards and oddly shaped. That, and I'm not sure how a glowing alien head is any more mature looking than a dragon logo, but whatever.

 

I understand titansfan, I agree. I think the stock GT70 looks rather elegant myself, very good looking.

 

Hey guys have u got problem with slow load/crash regarding scm software?,, usually happen when i resume sleep state,, when that happen, the touchpad notification will freeze on the screen and wont go away no matter what i do,, have tried uninstalling the software,, no luck yet with installing the microsoft framework(always stuck at the loading, which ver should i download anyway),, anyway i like it very much, the design is very nice, such a beast!

 

It's funny, I brought my GT70 Dragon to work the other day.
I expected a few comments of the "oh, that's too flashy for my tastes" type.
Yet I was surprised that everyone actually thought it was a very cool laptop and didn't know such a machine existed...

I guess people need to get out more often Lol!

 

LOL! (buzz, buzz, buzzzzzzzzzzz, and much clamoring in the background)

Well I am in agreement with Cloudfire and ryzeki here...... and yes, MatTheCat's situation is not a reflected in the Anandtech review..... and I do not believe either of these 'singular' appraisals, represents a fair view of this notebook...... and neither reflect what the vast majority of users are reporting.

Anandtech makes some good points regarding MSI's decisions and configuration choices, but this is subjective, and Lord knows, we all have opinions (after the fact) of what a manufacturer could have done differently, right? This can be said of every model, or brand. Regarding temps, we have seen numerous cases wherein some experience high-temps, and generally this is resolved with a proper repasting. How many times have we seen a sloppy paste job from a production unit, right? I generally re-paste with every notebook..... especially when equipped with high-end/high-temp hardware. This is currently being done, as we speak, on my new Dragon Edition. I cannot help but think the Anandtech unit would benefit from this, as well...... and how this may have changed Anandtech's bottom-line. Furthermore, some things written by their reviewer brings an agenda to mind, but I won't go into this.

Gaming notebooks are a different breed, have come a long way and given their constraints are actually somewhat an engineering marvel. I can remember a time not so long ago, when today's notebook performance levels were unthinkable..... and desktop performance was necessary for decent frame rates. To this end, MSI has actually done an outstanding job in the GT70 series, especially with temps, considering the hardware and associated power requirements on a single-fan cooling system. As ryseki correctly points out, higher temps are expected in a gaming beast, and those experienced with gaming notebooks understand this. Temps should also be monitored more often, and if temps begin to rise slowly over time, perhaps a good cleaning or repasting is in order. Keep em' clean, keep vents unobstructed, and maintain T.I.M.!

Also, since some folks are getting blurred with stress testing temps, I think it important to make some distinctions here. Folks need to consider 'normal' use of the product, and the manufacturer's designed intended use. Stress testing programs like Furmark, are tech tools designed specifically to task hardware to it's limitations. These are not generally recommended (especially for novice users), and are not within the scope of normal use, or the manufacturers intended use. Likewise, with intended use, temperatures generally do not approach levels seen while stress testing. Sure, if you want to stress-test, have at it, but you are stressing your components, and there are risk! It's your system, your money!

So in closing, Anandtech, re-paste that bad-boy and try again! To MatTheCat, RMA that dang thing, and ask them to re-paste too! To all else, do not fret..... given a good paste, normal conditions and intended use, the GT70 remains cool and performs admirably, especially given it's hardware. Heck, I've seen many lesser powered systems run much hotter.

 

Yep......I had problems with the SCM...until I got rid of Windows 8, now I don't/can't use SCM anymore. Actually, I have had loads of problems with this laptop.........check my previous posts for details in this thread if you want......no fixes found though except for RMA. Actually, how is your USB 3 port working with USB 3 devices?

Yep, as I said a few times before, its getting RMA'd....not only annoying but also slightly embarassing for me as well. This is the second laptop that I will have RMA'd to OcUK within quite a short space of time. The first was an HD7970 Clevo p170EM. That had to go back due to Enduro gfx switching issues. I have already asked them to repaste and also asked them to give the thing a quick stress test and report to me what the temperatures are before sending, as any repeat performance regarding temps (artifacts n glitches or not), will result in the replacement also getting RMA'd. It is at time like this when life would be made so much simpler if things like this were still dealt with in person at a local store.

I am noticing that Ivy Bridge (much more preferable to Haswell in my honest opinion) based Alienware M17x laptops can be had now for around the £1500 mark. Of course, they come with the GTX 680M, which is a drop in 3D performance compared to the GTX780M, but perhaps not a £1000 quid drop in performance....However, I do really hope to end up with a good functioning GT70. Despite all the issues I have had, I really like the look and feel of this laptop, and love the sound quality. Only bummer about getting a well oiled a fully operational GT70 back, would be getting lumbered with Windows 8 all over again.

P.S. I generally don't stress test......I only ever do this to check stability and/or temperatures and never do this continually for more than 1 benchmark or 10-20 minutes at time, which is why my temps were never going to mirror that of Anandtechs', who most likely left the machine under full load for several hours.

 

OMG! You stillllllll have not RMA'ed that notebook yet? USB 3.0 has worked great for me!

LOL! Yes, I have noticed you say you are going to RMA, but I was encouraging you actually do it..... and soon.

I know what it is...... you like the notebook so much, that even broke, it's very difficult to part with, right?

Yes, RMA's are no fun, but I've learned to get on with it, straight away..... shortens the frustrations and grief. Now days if I have an issue, I immediately box it back up, and get an RMA or a refund...... sometimes even in the same day.

Anyhow, good luck with your RMA, and/or your replacement AW system. I hope that works out for you...... sadly, I have yet to find that PERFECT notebook.

 

So far USB 3.0 gives me around 100MB/s transfers with normal HDDs. I wonder how much I will get out from an SSD

 

Yes I have!

BUT I AM STILL WAITING ON THEM TO PICK IT UP...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....WHAT AM I GOING TO DO!?!?!?!?

And besides, I am still naturally very curious about what was causing the problems to begin with.....so now I finally hear of another member complaining about one of the issues I had (albeit a minor one I never bothered myself much about), I am very curious to see if he has any other issues that mirror my own.

Was it ok to ask him that?

Also 100MB/s I would imagine...of course, you knew that already.

 

-MatTheCat, I'm having issues with slight background buzzing on rare volume frequencies (still looking for solutions btw) - and I'm considering to send it for a repair. With the amount of issues you've got I would of already packed and RMA'ed it. I really dont get what you're trying to achieve.

bump. nevermind

 

Why would I only get 100MB/s out of an SSD connected to USB 3.0? I bet I can higher, at least it should. It's supposed to have 5Gbps bandwidth, and 100MB/s is not even 1Gbps bandwdith.

 

I dunno....

100MB/s is all I get through the USB 3 on my desktop, both when transferring from HDD and SSD alike. I just thought that 100MB was more or less the speed of USB 3 portable drives....I have a pretty old SSD in my desktop though.

Eh buzzing through the speakers!?

How come I dont get this!?

How come nobody else gets this!?

I don't believe you! I bet you are just making this up! I am away to tell Cloudfire about you! He will soon put you straight!

















(sarcasm btw)

 

LOL! Don't you yell at me young man!

Naw, actually, I think we cross-posted..... I replied to you by editing my post#539

Anyhow, I feel your pain..... again good luck, and I hope MSI treats you well in your locale.

 

Does anybody know what the model of the stock mSata drives are on the GT70 Dragon Edition?

I was strongly considering upgrading to the Intel 525's but I've read more negative things about Sandforce than good when it comes to gaming.

 

This and other info and links can be found HERE!

 

Care to elaborate on that SandForce statement!

 

-_- d'oh not sure how I missed that.

I think I'm leaning toward a a couple of Crucial m4's in raid.

 

Hmm I think my comment went a little too far. From my understanding SandForce is particularly effective with highly compressible data, and more middle of the road with incompressible data, the latter of which games have more of.

As a result, I don't think there are sufficient gaming-related gains for the Intel 525s to justify the additional cost. Perhaps for different purposes.