*** The Official MSI GT63 TITAN Owners and Discussions Lounge ***

Just wanted to say thanks guys for checking and confirming the dual channel question...good to know that no main board flipping required...

 

Yep the good old core 0/2/4 temp problem again.
Convex heatsink plus VRM thermal pads above the CPU cause the cores closest to the VRM's to have less heatsink contact. Thus the paste pumps out and dries out faster on that side (topside closest to the VRM's).

Only permanent fix is to reduce the thermal pad thickness by half (1mm to 0.5mm) and then to sand the heatsink flat (less than 0.1mm of total copper needs to be sanded; use a decent sanding block like a Preppin Weapon sanding block and a various size sandpaper kit (150 grit to 3000 grit, going up, starting with 300 grit (about 20 strokes) then 20 strokes of 450 grit then 600 then 800 then 1500 then polish with 2000 and 3000 (a lot more strokes when polishing). Sanding requires removing the C-clips from the heatsink screws as you must remove the screws from the heatsink completely so they don't rip the sandpaper. A micro flathead screwdriver can get those out.

 

Good to know. Kinda makes LM application a bit more dangerous in a stock machine.
Wont the thermal pads give a bit over time?

 

Thanks for the info . Thought this may be the case... . As removing the heatsinks voids warranty, I will probably hold out on this. Interestingly I have managed to reduce variation to a maximum of 7 degrees by placing some additional padding between the rubber piece on the heatsink and the bottom case.

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

 

No.
You have direct die cooling on an exposed BGA CPU. There is no heat spreader to help spread the heat around like there is on a desktop CPU. So any even slight difference in pressure directly on the die at any point is going to cause an instant and sharp change in heat transfer at that position. Direct die cooling needs perfect contact pressure. Liquid metal works if you know exactly what you're doing and take precautions with insulation and foam dams.

 

OK, started to do some basic testing, just to see where it's at. Everything was done with just the back raised and in a constant temp 23C room. Ran Battlefield 1 on Ultra for 15mins

Fully stock (although I forgot to set it to High-Performance for this one... my bad)
https://i.imgur.com/1ZFAEcT.png

Stock paste, -125mV
https://i.imgur.com/8fmp5CW.png

Heatsink out
https://i.imgur.com/V5s9BDx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2W3dl3l.jpg

Kryonaut, -125mV
https://i.imgur.com/rwWUtcb.png


So..... Not great...
I still have to test the undervolt better. -125 was just a quick test, it should go further.

 

What are you using to stress test the CPU exactly?
I can tell from the very first CPU stock paste picture that there was more pressure on the bottom of the cores than the top.
But 97C at 1.18v is really....really....bad.

 

Just spectating the same game of BF1 on the same map with the same settings for 15mins.

Undervolting didn't make much difference. I'm just using Throttlestop. Any tricks I should know? Like Dragon Center using XTUServices.msc or something like that I gotta turn off first?

 

Wow that is...surprising....and not in a good way. It doesn't look like the Kryonaut repaste made much of a difference at all compared to stock. And the fact it has a pretty decent undervolt on it to. I usually repaste with Gelid Extreme on my lappies and I have one of these GT63's on the way and HIDevolution is doing the liquid metal pasting on it for this one because a.) they know what they are doing with Liquid Metal and b.) me....not so much. lol Also having the Fujipoly pads put on this GT63 as well. So I will post when i get it and see what LM and fujipoly pads (and undervolt) does with this unit. I would expect temps at most in the 80's range on max but after seeing those temps with Kryonaut....again...just surprised. I am selling my larger MSIGT73VR 6RF with a 1080 in it and my MSI GS43VR with a 1060 in it for the GT63 as it seemed to be the perfect combo of the 2 with all the power i needed...I hope that isn't a mistake but there is no turning back now

@Shark00n, were those temp readings with Kryonaut with fans on Max too? and did you repad it as well or just repaste it?

 

PC on Sport. Fans on Auto. I don't usually run max fans, they're too noisy.

I'm not very happy with this either...

 

Yeah it would seem at least the Kryonaut repaste and pretty decent undervolt would have yielded some benefit just doing that alone which is the strange part...

Good to know about the fans. I don't like running them on Max either on my other MSI laptops because they sound like mini jets taking off! But then again haven't really needed to on my other ones (mentioned above in my last post) as well as the Auto setting ramped up the fans when needed and took care of things. I usually run the Sport profile too.

Will let you know what my system is like when received with the LM and Fujipoly pads and undervolt...i can't remember, did you buy yours from one of the online places stock or a place like Microcenter?

 

From a store that has retail and online. I live in Portugal though.

I have to run more tests. I could go the LM route, the results would be great I bet, but I'm trying not too.
Even with foam damns I'm not too confident with the CPU part of the heatsink, maybe the contact isn't the best. I don't want to start lapping it because then my warranty would def be over.
I carry the laptop everyday so every knock or bump with my backpack would just cause anxiety lol.

@JNogueira did MSI say something about liquid-metal? Would that invalidate our warranty?

 

Can anyone recommend me a skin or top cover? I really prefer the murdered out look and want to cover that fugly dragon

 

They didn't mention anything related about what kind of thermal paste to use or not. So I assume that the repasting includes LM.
But if you will be moving around with the laptop frequently, I would stay away from LM.

 

Regarding your concerns about the safety of liquid metal thermal interface material, yes applying anything metal conductive to a piece of electronic equipment has its risks, but we have a proprietary means of application to prevent leakage. Also, you can rest assured that any upgrades that we perform will be covered under warranty. Regarding its long term effects, we have been offering liquid metal thermal compound for over two years with no ill effects or reports of issues from users. On the contrary, we found liquid metal thermal material to be more effective than traditional thermal interface material over the long term.

 

Hi Donald.
I am 100% sure that HIDevolution can deliver anti-leakage LM on these PCs. You have a really long success story and good reputation. It is important to highlight that for sure.

But you'll have to agree that applying LM without an anti-leakage mechanism is risky. I am not aware of any efficient system that can be safely applied by the regular users for all-around transportation.
That's why I warned Shark00n about the risk.

But if he has means and tools to do such change, then that will be a different story, of course. I don't think that we can order your LM proprietary system from Portugal, Europe so we can apply ourselves, therefore my warning about the risks. Unfortunately HIDevolution has no operations homebase in Europe (hope it can be possible in the future for the sake of all of us)

It is important to let everyone know that LM is not a thermal paste and requires additional skill and techniques to avoid leakage that can destroy the motherboard.

Cheers

 

Agreed. Applying LM without properly sealing it is not just risky, it is dangerous, and will almost inevitably cause damage to the laptop.

We ship all over the world, and provide our HIDevolution Global Warranty that covers shipping both ways. There is no reason to need a home base in Europe, or anywhere else in the world. We are indeed in a Global economy...we no longer have to think 'local', which can be very limiting.

 

Unfortunately we have to deal with border customs department questions in order to avoid extra taxes for overseas shipping. Sometimes the problem is not sending the laptop. The problem will hit us hard when receiving it overseas and all the documentation exchange, etc etc.

Although I agree with you, we are not truly a global economy yet as long as these "constraints" do exist that heavily limit the final decision, specialty considering the time without the laptop when in transit.

Someday in the future we might get there... Hopefully.

Cheers

 

Good to know. I'll probably still e-mail them for verification on that.

I think HID has offices in the UK. I spoke to Donald some time ago when I was thinking of going all out on a P870, GTX 1080 with the SLI vapour chamber cooler and the 780W Eurocom PSU. They send it to the UK and then to any EU country without the customs charge on the customer's behalf. (At least until Mrs. Theresa May figures out what she wants)
It's definitely the way to go if you want a proper and working system out of the box!



I'm quite familiar with LM. Just wasn't counting on needing it this badly. Repaste temps are... not great. And I wasn't even testing it in an extreme environment. Summer temps are a b*tch here! They totally tell the good laptops from the bad ones out there and there's mostly bad ones. I have friends with Clevos, Lenovos, HP and Gigabyte (all BGA "slim"ish machines) and they all have many difficulties in the summer. Thermal throttling and screaming fans...

My last machine was an Omen X (with mechanical keyboard and beefy vapour chamber cooling). It was great but ultimately too large and heavy to carry around. It would rob me too much weight on carry on lugage when flying so I had to sell it.
Then I got an Asus GX501GI (new version with 8750H and 1080mq) thinking I'd just liquid-metal it. It was a very cool machine but came with a dead left speaker and got really hot when stock. Asus took more than 40 days to fix it so I just ended up getting my money back. Was pretty "scared" about how hot the new 8th series cpus are and ended up choosing the GT63 as a nice trade-off between portability, performance and temps. Last part wasn't as good as I hoped though...

I'll probably just liquid metal it. I usually use a nice Kapton tape to cover everything around the dies and neighbouring circuits. Then I use the least possible quantity of LM (might be hard on the GT63 if CPU contact isn't great) and cut a foam square that goes around the chip and seals against the heatsink.
This is the foam I've used for the past year without issues:
https://i.imgur.com/lpSK5nR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YwtpBD0.jpg

It's a regular cleaning "cloth". Got 3 for 2€ or something. It's really nothing special. Just a compressible foam that's very easy to cut and expands nicely into the little cracks and crevices of the board and heatsink. I have absolutely no specifications on it. Just tested it with LM to see if it reacted in some way and no. Also put a bit in a hot pan to see how it handled temperatures and it almost didn't flinch until very high flame and heat. I've had success with it but maybe there's better things out there.

 

If VAT is applicable in your country, you will either pay it to your local vendor, or you will pay the same amount when you import.

It will vary depending on where we ship, but for members of the EU, we include all import related taxes to your country. We ship first to the UK, then on to any EU country. This way we collect from you and pre-pay the UK 20% VAT, but then shipping from the UK to any EU country is VAT free, and it eliminates all the hassles at Customs were you to import directly from the USA. With International Priority shipping it takes 2 business days to the UK, then another 3-7 working days to your door.

When shipping to UK customers, we collect 20% of your purchase price plus shipping cost which covers all of your import duties and taxes. You can rest assured, when it is delivered, you will owe nothing more than what you have already paid HIDevolution, and getting through Customs will be a breeze since everything is pre-paid.

We include all import related taxes to Australia as you checkout. This way we collect from you and pre-pay the VAT, and it eliminates all the hassles at Customs.

As for the rest of the world, I cannot give you legal advice on the Customs Duties or Taxes your government may charge for imports. A good place to look is http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/, or contact your local authorities.

Any warranty returns are shipped as such, with a commercial invoice for a nominal amount so VAT will not apply to the return. This will be the same, worldwide.

 

Which is exactly why i am having HIDevolution do my first ever Liquid Metal repaste on my unit i ordered through them. I am pretty experienced with regular thermal paste, building computers, diving into laptops, repasting, blah blah blah as most here on this board and do it often but for whatever reason, liquid metal scares the bejeezus out of me. It only takes one mistake and poof there goes your expensive purchase. Don't want to roll the dice on this new purchase and this unit seems to really need it too so going with the pro's. I know everyone is talking about "moving" alot with your laptops and how that is not too good for a liquid metal paste job...what about just moving it around the house? Is liquid metal so sensitive to movement that just the basic idea of that is a bad idea too? I.E. just carry the laptop from lets say downstairs to upstairs, moving to tables around the house, etc? I don't like to always be planted in front of a desk and monitor and like everyone its on my lap 50% of the time on a cooling pad so that wouldn't trigger any "leakage" if the job is done right correct? Just want to cover my basis since its my first experience with LM. Basically if i wanted a desktop and couldn't move anything I would just build another desktop...but the purpose of a lappy is some portability so any insight into just basic movement would be great for this liquid metal "newbie" @Donald@HIDevolution, @JNogueira, @Shark00n

 

I can only talk from experience. I've had two laptops with LM applied.

First was an Alienware 17R4. A badly engineered beast that had way too high temps stock, stuttering and bad core diferential temperatures.
LM fixed all of that. The system was awesome after LM applied.
I did not use any foam dams. Just lapped the heatsink slightly and bent the CPU tension arm to ensure great contact (tested with the thinnest layer of thermal paste as I didn't have any pressure paper).
LM quantity and application is important. If fit is good then the smallest amount will suffice. Just make sure to rub it well so it "sticks" to the die and heatsink. Just the surface tension alone should be enough to warrant safe operation. If you put too much then a drop can leak out and cause havok.
Used that PC for a year. Carried it everyday on a good backpack (Everki Titan) and had zero issues.

Then I started to build a huge library of important work things and was kinda anxious and afraid I'd have some issue so I sold it and tried to get something that would work nicely without LM.

So I got a vapor chambered HP Omen X. Kryonaut temps were good but not great. Fans were pretty loud so I ended up repasting with LM again.
As the vapour chamber mount and pressure was prone to more inconsistencies I put some foam dams in. Ran it for 5 months like that, again carrying it everywhere with no issues.

So LM is no demon. You just have to make sure that the contact and quantity are just right. It's very much worth it as temps are usually not a problem anymore after repaste. Laptops also operate much quieter.
The only issues are the possible dangers of frying something and the heatsink stains it leaves.
LM completely destroys aluminum heatsinks so you should only use it on copper ones. But it also reacts with copper, although much, much more slowly. The stains usually have no effect on performance but might trouble your warranty claims.

Many manufacturers also refuse working on systems with LM applied. It's a safety issue as no tech can verify what kind of liquid is there and usually liquid-metals are quite toxic (not true with most LM pastes though)

 

Thanks for that info Shark00n, yeah, not going to trouble with it personally and just having HIDevolution do it. Good to know basic portability shouldn't be an issue on this. I was just going to Gelid Extreme it myself but when I started to see the posts and reviews about this puppy heating up pretty good, decided to finally jump in the LM "magic"...thanks again

 

If there is anyone here that knows the answer to this it would be @Falkentyne...

Is it possible to enable the Intel HD Graphics even though nothing is connected to it? In the unlocked BIOS under system agent settings there is an option to enable the integrated graphics. But when you enable it the computer won't post. Is there something else that needs to be changed?

And if you have to ask why, it's because Adobe Media Encoder utilizes it to accelerate encoding (Intel Quick Sync). If you are encoding video you don't get the help from the hardware without it, especially with the new H.265 stuff.

 

Change the value in (Embedded Controller) EC RAM register F1 in RW Everything to a 01 and then reboot and see if that does anything. Look at the grid. F0 is bottom left. F1 is one to the right.

 

Not sure where to find this... Do I have to edit something?

 

RW Everything. download it. Then install it.

Click embedded controller
go to coordinate F1. I already told you where it is. If you took basic algebra then you know about X/Y coordinates. It's just in hexadecimal from 0 to F (0-9 then A-F is 16 values).
Change the value to 01 and reboot. Bottom left is F0 (look at the grid). So F1 is to the right of F0.

Also when you change it to 01, tell me if it automatically changes to something like 02 or 05 afterwards.

 

When I change to 01 it goes back to 00. If I change to 02 it will stick. 05 goes back to 00. Should I try 02?

EDIT: Tried 02, rebooted and it's back to 00.

 

Interesting.

"02" is the code for integrated GPU on the GT73VR and GT75VR.
"06" is for Nvidia GPU.

Try 02 and reboot and check if the Nvidia GPU is disabled or not.

 

Tried 02, rebooted and it's back to 00.

No Integrated Graphics, still GTX 1080 in device manager.

 

It will turn back to 00 always after a reboot.
That's normal.

But I don't know if the code to disable the dGPU is present. I don't have this laptop to do any tests.
People have tried forcibly enabling the iGPU in the unlocked Bios and wound up with a black screen. There are three entries for iGPU in "System Agent" but again I can't test anything.

No one has tried this on the GT75 Titan.
(including setting EC RAM register F1 to "02" and rebooting).

 

Is it possible there could be hardware missing to make it work? When I enabled it in system agent settings, the power light would come on on the button, but the lights on the front of the computer didn't even come on. No HD activity or anything.

I noticed some other MSI BIOS have an Intel Graphics Multi Monitor setting to allow use of both cards simultaneously.

 

Probably not.
There are three options in System Agent.
I assume you tried a combination of all three.

I would have to see if someone tried the GT75 Titan (8RG, etc) and tried toggling EC RAM register F1 (to a value of 01 or 02) and then rebooting and seeing what happens.
But I can't help you because I can only tell you what other people have or haven't done, without the laptop in my possession (I am have no access to them).

How did you manage to reset the laptop if you got a black screen at POST?

 

I posted a pic of the options below. Those are the defaults. I tried just enabling intel graphics and then I tried also making it primary display. Both times no boot.

Was able to boot by holding power for 45 seconds or so to clear BIOS.

Anyways, I appreciate you giving it a shot! I'm bummed that this is an awesome machine in all other respects but it's actually almost 2x slower at video encoding with Adobe than my old MSI GT70-0NE.

 

On to a new thing... I can't get the Nvidia drivers 411.63 or 411.70 to install for the GTX 1080. Says no compatible hardware found. 399 installs fine. Anyone else have an issue?

 

Yes. Same issue here

 

I sent NVIDIA a message and some installer logs... They had me try a couple things and then fell of the face of the earth. Haven't heard back.

Also tried reinstalling Windows so don't waste your time.

 

Also... if you go here:

https://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/227-geforce-r400-series/

You can get a modded INF. Drop it in the Display.Driver folder inside the NVIDIA drivers, overwriting the old one, and it will install, but you have to disable driver signature enforcement. I just don't get why we are suddenly not supported any more.

 

On my MSI 16L1 aka Tornado F5 I can enable in bios the IGP (hd630 on 8700K) but obviously Windows 7 cannot find and install its driver.

Now I'll try on my 2nd boot Win10 and will edit this post.

These are the option on my bios but I did not try them all yet, apart from enabling IGP

Spoiler: pics

 

That's crazy... I have some of those sane options like primary display configuration but they are blank inside. I bet Win10 finds the driver...

 

-enabled and installed but now I don't get time to get it working in some application or more important, exclusively.

Spoiler

any suggestion are really appreciated

 

You'll probably never get it to work exclusively since nothing is connected to it. Your display and external ports are connected to the dedicated GPU. But just the fact that it's active means, at the very least, that it can be utilized by things that can use it like Adobe Media Encoder.

 

Are you guys talking about the iGPU and the "Mux" switch button?

On the GT73VR and GT75VR, the iGPU can be forcibly enabled as the primary device by going to the Embedded Controller tab, going to EC RAM register F1 (next to bottom left) and setting a value of 02 for iGPU and a value of 06 for Nvidia GPU, then rebooting. Setting a value of "01" toggles between either the iGPU or the dGPU, going from 02 to 06 then back to 02 whenever 01 is set (this is what SCM does when you press the GPU button). This is also what the "Bios" does under MSI GPU Mode....it just writes to the EC.

The iGPU/dGPU on the GT73VR/GT75VR seems to be some weird hack MSI is using @Papusan
As you know, you can manually enable the iGPU via System Agent->Graphics configuration and keep it enabled, but you can't address it in windows. Linux can see and address the iGPU, if it can handle it not being the primary device. Windows won't even allow you to use it as a secondary device.

However the PEG port itself seems to cause all sorts of problems, and was the cause of the famous "black screen problem" when switching from dGPU to iGPU to dGPU, having the dGPU as the rendering device but the iGPU as still the display device, but the iGPU was deactivated=black screen.

Forcibly enabling the dGPU rather than having it at "Auto" avoids this bug.
However I found something rather interesting.

If you use the EC registers / SCM to enable the iGPU, it seems to electrically disconnect the Nvidia GPU ! That is, even if you sets PEG Root port 1 to "Enabled", which should keep it enabled, when you set the iGPU as active via the Bios switch or EC (NOT by setting integrated graphics to forcibly enabled), if you then go to PEG Root port 1, you will see that it says "not installed", meaning there is absolutely nothing in the PEG Port, even though the Nvidia video card is installed. So I think that's the problem. The Embedded Controller on the "Mux" laptops actually completely disconnects the PEG port so the iGPU can be used.

There is no way to make the iGPU the primary rendering device, because the embedded controller will not allow it.

You guys could consider trying going to "PEG Root port" and manually disabling the PEG root port 1 (set it to disabled) *AND* manually enable integrated graphics, but if this doesn't work, you are most likely going to be going "HELLO CLEAR CMOS" as a result (60 second power button press).

I think that's the problem here.
Since if you enable the iGPU on the MUX Titans, the PEG Port is completely disabled even if you set it to "Enabled" anyway.

Therefore I think if you manually disable the PEG Port and manually enable the iGPU, if the display outputs dont switch to the iGPU, you get a black screen....

 

@Shark00n, so are you considering selling your samsung dimm?

Thanks

 

Sorry but no. Got a good deal on a second 16GB stick. Check OLX, you get lucky sometimes, specially with RAM prices

 

that's alright. No issue. Just asked because you asked me some pages back if I wanted to get your DIMM. What did you buy?

 

Found a stick of similar Samsung for sale used. 90€ for 16gb couldn't say no.

There were more when I was looking. Lots of OEM stuff

 

Sweet mother of God....

These are Samsung B-dies right?

 

What’s wrong? And what’s a B-die, I’m confused

 

Legendary Samsung chips that can overclock like mad on desktops and on laptops if you find them.
@hackness has them.
DDR4-2400 samsung chips running at 3400 mhz...