*** The Official MSI GS65 Stealth Owners and Discussions Lounge ***

Those temps are well within range. GPU is a bit high but nothing to get excited about.

 

my bad i had a typo, my CPU is at 192F and GPU at 183F...

i undervolt using Throttlestop... this is pretty worrying for me as i primarily use this laptop for gaming... but the temperature really worries me...

I have uninstalled dragon center and reset the cmos by pressing and holding the power button for 45 seconds.... using silent option as my fan control... my fan max out at 85%... not sure if i need to go higher...

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, my order is with HIDEvolution but I didn't realize you were so generous with your time! Again, my apologies. If you're still willing to help it would be much appreciated

 

I’ve found that Windows messes with the EPP setting in the ThrottleStop, if you observe the EPP value in FIVR, you might find that it jumps between 2 different values. It means that the CPU isn’t sticking to the EPP value you have set, to solve this, I did some research on how to unhid the EPP setting that the Windows use. I think Windows call the EPP with another name, ”Autonomous mode”, there are 3 main settings that control the behavior of the EPP from Windows.


To unhid the settings in the Power Option, there are a few things to do in the regedit, go to:


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\8baa4a8a-14c6-4451-8e8b-14bdbd197537]

And set Attributes to 2. This unhides “Processor performance autonomous mode”.


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6863]

And set Attributes to 2. This unhides “Processor energy performance preference policy”.


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\cfeda3d0-7697-4566-a922-a9086cd49dfa]

And set Attributes to 2. This unhides “Processor autonomous activity window”.


Once all done, close regedit and restart Windows. You should be able to see these 3 options in the Power Option menu.


Make sure you have ticked “Enable Speed Shift when ThrottleStop starts” in the ThrottleStop’s TPL menu before doing any of this.

Please note that I use High Power Profile in the Power Option, I don't really like the Power Slider that the Balanced mode provides, it makes things get worse and worse, it doesn't change the EPP setting, it's doing with its own formula as I observed.

Now, go into the Power Option and find “Processor energy performance preference policy”, you’ll find the setting is in %, this % relates to the EPP value, I’ll list them here:


1% = 2

2% = 5

3% = 7

4% = 10

5% = 12

6% = 15

7% = 17

8% = 20

9% = 22

10% = 25

11% = 28

12% = 30

13% = 33

14% = 35

15% = 38

16% = 40

17% = 43

18% = 45

19% = 48

20% = 51

21% = 53

22% = 56

23% = 58

24% = 61

25% = 63

26% = 66

27% = 68

28% = 71

29% = 73

30% = 76

31% = 79

32% = 81

33% = 84

34% = 86

35% = 89

36% = 91

37% = 94

38% = 96

39% = 99

40% = 102

41% = 104

42% = 107

43% = 109

44% = 112

45% = 114

46% = 117

47% = 119

48% = 122

49% = 124

50% = 127

51% = 130

52% = 132

53% = 135

54% = 137

55% = 140

56% = 142

57% = 145

58% = 147

59% = 150

60% = 153

61% = 155

62% = 158

63% = 160

64% = 163

65% = 165

66% = 168

67% = 170

68% = 173

69% = 175

70% = 178

71% = 181

72% = 183

73% = 186

74% = 188

75% = 191

76% = 193

77% = 196

78% = 198

79% = 201

80% = 204

81% = 206

82% = 209

83% = 211

84% = 214

85% = 216

86% = 219

87% = 221

88% = 224

89% = 226

90% = 229

91% = 232

92% = 234

93% = 237

94% = 239

95% = 242

96% = 244

97% = 247

98% = 249

99% = 252

100% = 255


Windows has the “Processor energy performance preference policy” default to 33% for plugged in and 50% for Battery mode in the High Power Profile, translated to EPP it’s 84 for plugged in and 127 for Battery mode. But now if you set a different value in the ThrottleStop, the CPU might meet the situation that it doesn’t know who to listen to, Windows or ThrottleStop? Which? It’s a conflict. So instead of giving different targets, I choose to give the same target.


For example, let’s say I want to set 63 for plugged in mode and 255 for battery mode on ThrottleStop, I set these 2 values in ThrottleStop EPP, and then I go into Power option and set “Processor energy performance preference policy” to 25% for plugged in mode and 100% for Battery mode.


As for “Processor performance autonomous mode”, the available options are Enable and Disable, but I don’t think it’s really taking much affect as my EPP is still being messed with, so I choose to ignore this and leave it Enabled for both Plugged in and Battery mode.


And for “Processor autonomous activity window”, also no significant impact playing with it, so I ignored this and leave it on 30000 for both as well.

For games like FFXIV that uses only 25-40% of the CPU, Windows setting 25%, ThrottleStop EPP setting 63 was able to make my CPU run at full speed during the gaming session. When exit game on idle, it down clocks correctly too, less energy waste and less fan spinning on idle. Very nice.

Most importantly, the SST EPP shown in the FIVR is always sticking to the value you have set, full time sticking, with this you know the SpeedShift is working correctly.

You'll have to find out which is better for you, it depends on how you use your laptop.

Hope you guys find this helpful.

Kudos: If you know how to unlock and gain access to the SpeedShift Option in the BIOS, I suggest you turn it on.

 

@hackness What is the benefit of setting EPP to 63 for example? How it affects performance and temperature?

 

I think when you plug in an external display (at least when I plug in my 144hz 1440p GSYNC display) it forces it to use the dGPU regardless of what software is running.

 

Hi guys,

I'm trying to dual boot ubuntu 18.04 along side windows in msi gs65 8RF (best buy version). I have turned off secure boot and fast boot. Installation failed showing error message: The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed' package failed to install target/. There was another error before: ACPI Exception: AE_NOT_FOUND which was solved by adding acpi=off before installing. Can someone please help me in installing ubuntu. Thanks in advance.

 

So I have the GS65 and really like it, however I cant bring myself to take it apart and risk messing it up. Do any of the companies that sell customized versions of this laptop provide services to upgrade the thermal compound, upgrade the ram and add a second drive even though I did not purchase the laptop from them? I am to afraid of messing my laptop up but would love to have this work done by someone else even at a fee.

 

No problem, welcome to the MSI Gaming Team. Tag me once you get your machine then I'll PM you.

 

It shouldn't. 192F (89C) is well within the thermal envelope of Intel CPUs. If it were bouncing up against 99C and engaging thermal throttle then that could indicate a problem but it isn't so there isn't.

 

Someone posted here the link to a thin webcam cover that suits on our GS65. I can't find it anymore. Does someone know what product was it?

 

Autonomous mode isn't EPP. It's whether or not Windows controls SpeedShift EPP. Used to be Windows 10 managed SpeedShift. This changed in the first (IIRC) Creators Update. Now Windows 10 lets the processor manage itself. Your registry changes revert to the pre-Update behavior.

 

You can always force Chrome to use Intel integrated graphics, selecting this in the Nvidia control panel menu (the one where you can chose an app and select which card should Windows use for it). Wouldn't this have prevented Nvidia GPU kicking in, even with the older drivers?

 

I never thought about it. I forgot these tricks after an year of Discrete GPU only laptop (Eurocom), I need to get used with it.
Can I do the same with Explorer.exe?

 

You can do it with every application you want. Just go to the nvidia control center, in the section where you can select your general preferred card, there's a tab for individual apps. The control center already picks the "ideal" scenario for every app, for example games are usually detected as games and hence the Nvidia GPU is selected, however you can force one specific app to use the gpu you want, for example video players like VLC usually use discrete graphics, but if you want you can go there, select VLC (or search for it if it's not listed) and make it use the dedicated card. Same for Chrome, Firefox or whatever you want. Not sure about windows core components like explorer, but I guess it should work as well.

 

A number of Windows Core components are already enumerated and directed to use the IGP. However, Explorer.exe is not one of them (unless if it's hidden behind a host process somewhere).

 

I don't have my laptop here but I guess you can simply go to the nvidia control panel, to the section where you can select apps individually, look for Explorer and force it to use the integrated gpu. Right?

 

How will I put this...

Initially I wanted the CPU to go into Idle mode for lowered temperature when not in used and able to reach max multiplier even when the game is using only 25% of the CPU.

When you set the EPP too high you'll find your multiplier isn't running at full speed when playing the game, unfortunately by not using the full multiplier results in a lowered FPS.

In my case, I use this laptop for work and gaming, I prefer not to have it run at full speed when doing office stuff, but on the other hand, I also need the CPU to run at full speed when I run FFXIV, the CPU usage of this game hovers around 25~40%, if I set the EPP higher than 63 it won't run at full speed in FFXIV.

I set the EPP to 63 because I prefer the CPU to behave like the way I wanted to.

That is correct, but the EPP (“Processor energy performance preference policy”) in the Power Option is still affecting from time to time. What this means is that Windows still tells the CPU which policy to use, and the policy we are talking about it here is the “Processor energy performance preference policy”. And from what I observed, the default policy for plugged-in is set to 33% (EPP 84) and 50% (EPP 127) for Battery mode.

Try this and see for yourself. If you open up FIVR in ThrottleStop and watch the SST EPP closely, when you change the % of “Processor energy performance preference policy”, the SST EPP will return the value you just set but it's shown in EPP format. Go to the list I have posted and look for the number returned, is it identical to the % you have just entered?

Now you can start thinking why when you only set EPP in ThrottleStop, the SST EPP in the FIVR is still shifting between 2 values.

 

Thanks for the help, and sorry the long reply. Me email apparently doesn't show replies....

BUT!!!
Now I have problems with the usb ports. Since its a laptop and I use it for everything, I have a usb 3 hub connected and other peripherals. Sometimes the usb connections wiggles to one side whilst being connected to the pc, but then the computer can't register the connections? This happens both hubs and my other peripherals connected.

I might have a lead though... My motherboard seems not to be lining up with the holes on the computer/chassis, and that accounts for usb ports and minijack in and out. Should I RMA, or is there a simple solution?

 

Update! The problem with the ports not working until being put in a certain way, is only for USB Hubs? I tried all sorts of usb peripherals in all my ports, and they work fine whilst i wiggle it...

I would then assume that it has something to do with my computer not liking hubs? I have tried 2 different, but they both give me the same problem. I have the latest EC and BIOS driver, and i have turned automatic power management controls off in device manager... I mean, what else could it be?

 

Hmmm... I’m currently undervolting my CPU and I’m at -250mv. Running Timespy, FF15 benchmark, Rise of the Tomb Raider benchmark, I get no performance drop at all with no crashing or blue screen.
I did have to lower my cache to -75mV from 80mV.
Is this a new record? Lol...


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Good evening,
This is my first time on this amazing forum.
I have a question regading the gs65.
How I could work on the CPU moltiplicator ? What is the software? Also Intel XTU is enough?

Thanks to all

 

Try this with your undervolt... Too much means lower score. Everything below 1250cb means a loss.

[email protected] clocks all cores and -0.245mv for Core + Cashe. Load voltage 0.882V.

 

Did it twice with my -250mV cpu and -75.2mV Cache. Scored 1251 and 1256.
I set your settings and my computer immediately froze on apply lol. The cache at -80mV and lower always made my games crash.


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Hey guys!
I’ve been reading a few pages here, unfortunately it’s hard to go thru them all.

I’m thinking about getting a GS65 but I’m still torn between it and the Aero 15X. Wondering if you guys can help me out a bit.

I’m leaning more towards the GS65 because of the keyboard, weight, touchpad, price and cooling (more heatpipes and more heatsinks than the Aero should mean more better, right?)

The Aero is a fine proposition but it’s kinda riddled with software bugs and annoyances.

I’m planning on liquid-metal and undervolting it, you guys think the GS65 should behave nice and cool like this?
Are there no bad surprises like battery boost (does it still use it even?) or annoying software bugs? Reading about unlocked BIOSes and power limits is kinda putting me off...

I’m really looking for a small and lightweight machine that can quench my gaming thirst on occasion, but I also want the best experience possible with the least issues to resolve and tinker with.

Which are the most common issues that are plaguing this model right now? If any.

And does anyone know what memory comes usually installed on units with 1x16gb? I’ll probably buy a second stick of it.

Thanks a lot!

 

what did you do to get that score? when i run cinebench... I get thermal throttling and max out at 1168... i have done the same undervolting as you...

 

Been using GS65 since beginning of June and must say it's really nice laptop. You can play with BIOS unlocking but that is only if you want to squeeze few more points in benchmarks. Being able to unlock BIOS... I see it as a plus, you can play and adjust to your liking.
Mine came with 2x 8GB. 512GB Samsung ssd.

Pros
Laptop is quiet in normal usage (3D / VR software development, some photography) and can handle AAA titles when I want it. In 3D it's louder but still better then laptops I had before.
It is stable I've not experienced any blue screens. Except when playing with undervolting which is my own fault
I've not seen any software bugs. Uninstalled Dragon center and using Silent option for fan control.
Re-pasting and adding second 1TB ssd is not as bad as some describe, just be careful doing this. Use anti-static wrist band so not to damage your motherboard. Be gentle with ribbon connectors.
With re-paste (not even LM) and undervolting (-150mV) I get stable x36 multiplayer so almost no throttling
Very good screen
Great overall performance
VR - HTC Vive works like a charm
MSI has good service / support (Depending on your location). Gigabyte and Razer almost have no presence in my country and I wouldn't like to wait 2 mouths for replacement parts if something goes wrong.
Very light but...
Cons
... Case stiffens / quality. Guess you need to choose lightweight or stiff. In my opinion it's not a deal breaker but case could be more stable.
Flipped motherboard. Again not a deal breaker. Be honest, how often do you disassemble your laptop ? It's 30 - 45 minutes of work.
No sd reader, if you need it at all

 

Thanks for taking the time man, very helpful!

Yeah, from what I've read, Dragon Center has to go. MSI's always have a little too much bloatware and useless software. I'll do a clean instal probably.
The flipped motherboard doesn't scare me so much. Yeah it would be better if it was a regular setup but no biggie.

If I install a second M.2 SSD (I have a simple SATA drive), I should put the original NVME SSD on the second slot and the new one on the first slot right? Only one of them is SATA compatible I think, is it #1?

My biggest fear is throttling.
With LM on the CPU and GPU, having these components properly cooled, does it maintain boost clocks around 3.9GHz? Or does it still fall down to 3 or 3.4Ghz under sustained loads?

MSI service where I live isn't great but it exists. Gigabyte support is much more difficult to talk to as they are based in a different country.

I think I'm going to pull the plug on the GS65. It's gonna be weird going from a 10lb 17.3" Omen X to that little thing but I've got to carry it everyday now so I think it's gonna fare better.

Now I just need to get a confirmation on the 1x16GB RAM module that usually comes in this config. Would suck to open it just to get back to the store for the memory.

 

Carrying 17" to work everyday... no way This one will be tiny.

Yes, I had to swap SSD slots. My 1TB was SATA:
slot 2 is just NVMe PCIe
slot 1 is Combo NVMe PCIe / SATA

Regarding clocks it depends and I did't use LM just Kryptonout. During games and normal usage it doesn't throttle.

See below:
Full load it stays around 3,5GHz and it's really hot in Europe now. 26C in my room.
I've uploaded screens from Witcher3 and Dying Light (CPU bound game) CPU keeps around 3,8Ghz
Hope it helps

 

Dude, you are the real MVP.

Yeah I'm in europe too. Portugal. Summer time is a real test to gaming laptops. I've never seen one perform as it should with stock paste and voltages.
Expecting high 30s, low 40s C in august, will be fun....

I see the temps are pretty hot still. Even with a -150mV undervolt.... It definitely needs LM to be at full potential.

What is MSI's policy regarding LM? Would I have any warranty issues? (I would probably repaste with regular paste before sending it in, this if I have an issue not related to my LM installation).
I know with Alienwares there's no problem, but technicians can refuse service alleging safety concerns as they have no way to check if it's LM or straight up mercury... Still bullcrap but at least they're clear about it.

 

I'm having the exact same problem. I started noticing certain key colours were off. Then realised that around 15 keys have a minor red backlight on them all the time (even when backlight is set to zero), and that's adding a reddish hue to the colours in the keyboard theme.

Any ideas?

 

It was my keyboard ribbon cable on the case. Not the one that attaches to the motherboard but the other side of it. The lever was lifted up and the ribbon was loose. Must of come undone when I opened it the five or six times I did.

 

Not all CPUs can take the same undervolt. Try running the score without the undervolt then run the score with. If you're scoring less with the undervolt, you're undervolting too much.
I have LM on my CPU and GPU and I run a custom fan curve with "Silent Option" so I'm not limited my thermals at all.

 

Well, yes. It's an adaptive mechanism. It's supposed to change.

 

That's weird. I've never opened it up. Strange that I should be having this issue then :-/

 

FYI best buy has the 1070 version on sale for $150 off.

Also if you are a rewards member you can take 10% off (non stackable) of for your birthday once a year.

 

It's too bad that TS allows setting Core and Cache undervolt individually for CPU's that don't actually support it. Intel Gen 6 and newer only use one value for the undervolt.

Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility - XTU - won't let you set different values for Core / Cache undervolt on CPU's that don't support it.

TS also took away the ability to set different values when in Gen 6 and above, but apparently even though only 1 value is used in setting the undervolt for both Core and Cache, forcing different values has side-effects, both positive and negative, so @unclewebb restored the ability to force these setting in CPU's that don't recognize or support them when setting undervolt.

Your scores aren't far enough different to be much more than run differences - not enough difference to make any useful or noticeable performance improvement.

Your lower undervolt, the Cache @ -80mV is the real undervolt being used - so you aren't getting the best thermal and power limiting reduction possible - that CPU should get between -150mV and -180mV real undervolt. And, that -250mV Core setting is skewing other CPU functions.

Given the lack of real useful improvement from fake splitting the Core / Cache undervolt, and the confusion on how to actually balance it high, it's best to stick to keeping the undervolt settings the same, at least to establish the "real" undervolt.

Once you have the "real" undervolt, you could spend time cranking up the Core "pseudo undervolt", but so far it looks like a waste of time - little benchmark benefit, and no "real" benefit.

 

I didn't know this. I'll redo my undervolt then and keep it the same for cache and cpu.
When it arrived from HIDevolution, it already came with Intel XTU at a -80mV undervolt. @Donald is it safe to assume that the techs tried various undervolts and this was the maximum?

 

It may be the best average setting that speeds assembly and testing, and not actually be the best the CPU can do if you take the time to tune it.

BTW, I think it's awesome that HID is setting a safe undervolt for their laptop customers, helping them get a start on the road to software tuning their laptops.

It can take a long enough time to tune and test for stability to find the actual maximum undervolt and then it can still be "iffy" enough that you wouldn't want to hand it over to an inexperienced person with a high undervolt without running for a week, and most (all?) boutique builders don't have the time to do that.

I know I de-tune from the highest settings down a bit to "daily driver" safe settings when I set up a computer for someone, although I do leave the best "optimal" settings I found in an Intel XTU / MSI AB profile for them to use as reference when they get more experienced and want to continue the tuning themselves later on.

My own go to undervolt is -100mV as that leads to about 10c reduction in temperature at 100% all core load, which is usually enough to stop thermal throttling without re-pasting.

If that -100mV is stable at 100% and idle, you can tune further, sometimes as much as -150mV to -180mV with 8th gen CPU's, but it takes time and if you are already under 90c with your highest usage, then maybe it's not worth the extra time to tune the undervolt further. You can wait until the tuning itch strikes down the road.

So far we haven't seen a report of an 8th gen CPU that won't undervolt -100mV, so give that a shot.

 

I’ll give it a shot. Thanks for your help!


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i got mine!

Adjusted fan profile first thing....

Started xtu and stress tested hit 90c with throttling all over power and thermal....

started undervolting a lil heavy with -160 undervolt- 83c was max. Now doing deeper stress testing.

undervolting is magical!

 

Undervolting *is* magical, that's why I keep bringing it up as being the first thing to set up, and thank you for confirming it once again!!

Congratulations on your new GS65!!

Actually undervolting is the first thing to do right after doing the MSI BurnRecovery recovery flash drive creation!!

 

Question Tho- I have the best buy SSD version.

But I also have a NVME Samsung 960 to install..

I was planning on using NVME as game install/storage space.

Is it worth it to Re-image on the NVME drive? The speeds for windows wont be that drastic right? im leaning toward it not being worth it but this is my first NVME drive.

 

Unless you have an application that bottlenecks on IO - uses predominantly storage IO as part of it's operation - like rendering to SSD, for the most part most applications "wall time" includes fraction's of a second of IO in normal use.

The NVME drive also gets a lot hotter, even at idle, and gets hotter when under heavy use - the faster controller runs hotter so the longer it runs - does constant IO - the hotter it gets.

If you've already bought the M.2 NVME drive, maybe it's not too late to swap it for a 2x larger M.2 SATA drive.

You can clone the current boot drive (all the partitions) and transfer it to a USB connected SATA 2.5" or M.2 SATA drive with an external enclosure - in the case of laptops without more than 1 m.2 socket. I recommend Macrium Reflect Free:
https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree
http://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v7/ReflectDLHF.exe

You can also use Macrium Reflect Free to create a USB thumb drive to boot from, and restore the current image of the boot drive to the newly installed M.2 NVME drive from an external USB drive (holds the boot image created by Macrium Reflect Free).

Please come back and let us know how it works out.

 

I purchased it a bit ago. rats. Worse case- I overspent on storage? im ok with this.

 

Hey, that's cool, I've done the same, we all do at some point.

You might as well use it then. Keep the original SSD in the laptop box stored away for the time when you sell it, or need to put in the original drive for RMA. Plus it's a nice live back bootable OS you can swap in should you need to down the road.

 

Checked the GS65 spec again, and there are 2x M.2 slots, @mojojoe you should be able to swap in your M.2 NVME SSD and clone it internally, and switch boot to the M.2 NVME SSD via BIOS, or just pull the M.2 SATA drive.

 

There's no 2.5" bay

 

Darn, really? Too bad... thanks for the heads up.

 

On my gs65, win 10 1803, I cant adjust brightness anymore... any other?