*** The Official MSI GS65 Stealth Owners and Discussions Lounge ***

What're you using to verify stability with an undervolt? I'm keeping CPU and Cache the same but anything over 80.1mV causes Cinebench R15 to crash.

 

Wait, you wrote 80.1mV not -80.1mV, are you sure you are setting a negative voltage offset? If you are setting a positive voltage offset, that is the wrong direction.

 

Yes, I meant -80.1mV lol


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If you are only able to do -80.1mV that is unusual, most people are reporting over -150mV...

You shouldn't crash in anything.

prime95 small fft for about 5-15 minutes should be enough, make sure you have AVX/FMA extensions disabled:

Exit prime95 and add these lines to the top of local.txt:
CPUSupportsAVX=0
CpuSupportsAVX2=0
CpuSupportsAVX512F = 0
CPUSupportsFMA3=0
CpuSupportsFMA4 = 0

Then reset the readings in hwinfo64 and restart prime95 small FFT's, and if you don't crash and threads don't exit with math errors for 5 minutes - 15 minutes tops, it's stable.

If you are crashing, maybe it's something else? Did you change any other settings in TS / XTU? Which one are you using?

 

I may be unlucky then lol. Prime95, with the lines you said to add, is crashing above -80.1mV


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Are you also overclocking? The range I quote for undervolt is at stock multiplier / frequency. You want to start there first to find undervolt, then you would reduce the undervolt as you increase the CPU core multipliers increasing frequency. As you increase OC your undervolt headroom drops off.

Do HID laptops come OC'd in the BIOS? If so I would think they'd undervolt in the BIOS too. Maybe check with HID to see if your laptop comes running stock speeds, or if it is OC'd out of the box.

Or, you might have that rare CPU that doesn't undervolt as well as the rest of that model.

I had a Haswell CPU that would only do -15mV out of the box, and after 18 months I stretched that to -45mV stable - at stock frequency.

If you have a nice OC, and still get -80.1 undervolt, that's darned good. And a .1mV setting difference between stable and unstable is odd too. Maybe test idle undervolt stability too, you might want to drop down to -75mV overall stable.

To test idle stable, you'll want to exit all apps, all systray apps like XTU monitoring, exit hwinfo64, stop MSI Dragon Gaming Center app and service, and exit / stop other monitoring tools and background services. Get the laptop to be as idle as possible, to let the CPU ratchet down the voltage to minimum to make sure the undervolt didn't reduce the minimum voltage too low.

 

I’m completely at stock clocks. Guess I lost the silicon lottery lol. Oh well. I still get temps of 75c and below when gaming with a 0/55/70/80/90/100 custom fan curve.


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Can you overclock an i7-8750H ? And now you have finally seen an Coffee lake who can't undervolt as much as you stated in one of the other threads

 

Thanks for the heads up, he didn't say which CPU he had, and I have sig's disabled.

The -81mV is very low for an 8th gen CPU - the first one reporting such a low undervolt. It's also not the first HID tuned laptop that I've seen ship with an -80mV undervolt, and an OC out of the box. Also, I think some are set in the BIOS so that conflicts with XTU / TS tuning.

I was trying to get information out of @JRey that he wasn't providing, so I had to prompt him. Still not sure there isn't some kind of conflict interfering with increasing the -81mV undervolt as it's way too low, and coincidentally adjacent to the HID undervolt.

And, no - the 8850H can be OC'd but not the 8750H. But you know that already.

 

We are in the msi-gs65-stealth-owners-and-discussions-lounge... And I'm not even sure if this model come with higher than i7-8750H

 

Yeah, neither am I, that's why I asked him if he was OC'ing his laptop, as that can reduce the headroom for undervolting, remember?

Nope, all models listed have 8750H's:
https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GS65-Stealth-Thin-Intel-8th-Gen/Specification

 

I dropped it to -78mV. -80mV was semi stable, so I went down 2 notches.
In an attempt to go lower, I set max turbo clocks to 39x no matter how many cores are running. I still couldn’t lower my undervolt but I noticed more consistent performance and FPS in Rise of the Tomb Raider and GTA V benchmarks.


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Weird, so HID set the undervolt with XTU @ -80mV, which I have heard from others, like it's a "safe" setting they can use with everyone. I don't think they take the time to undervolt to the optimal value for every laptop / CPU, it wouldn't be cost effective.

It's just odd that you're undervolt goes no further than HID's setting of -80mV.

So you don't have ThrottleStop installed? What about MSI's Dragon Gaming Center (DGC)? DGC uses XTU to OC, but your locked CPU won't take OC tuning.

I wonder if there is another app interfering with your XTU use?

I also wonder how DGC mode settings work on a locked CPU... maybe it still tries to change CPU tuning via XTU?

I don't use DGC, but is there a "neutral" or "normal" setting? Maybe if it's in Sport or Power Saving or whatever other mode it's interfering with your XTU undervolting?

Sorry to be stuck on this but I find it too coincidental that HID's -80mV setting is also your undervolt limit, when so many other 8th gen CPU's are way past that into the -150mV range, and noone else has posted that they are limited to a sub -100mV undervolt.

 

ok. installed second drive. Elected to skip repaste till i get better handle on thermals.

not an easy task opening this guy up.....

stress testing -.180mv -> is there a point of diminishing returns?

 

I use throttle stop. No dragon center. No XTU.
I had HID do a clean install with no crap ware.
It’s really not a big deal. -78mV for CPU and Cache or -250mV CPU and -78mV for cache all work with no issues


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-180mV is pretty high, like it could be your CPU's stable point, but most have been a bit lower.

If you aren't looking to spend time narrowing down the exact optimal undervolt maybe try -150mV - which should be stable at 100% load and idle given you think -180mV is, and -150mV is more likely to actually be stable.

Then you can come back to it when you have time or the itch to fine tune it.

Or, you could set up XTU or TS Profiles for both -180mV and -150mV, and run on the -180mV and if there is a problem you can back off to the -150mV profile so you can get back to gaming, or work, or whatever right away without spending time narrowing down the undervolt to the optimal setting.

 

Ahh, did you uninstall XTU? If HID was using XTU to set the -80mV undervolt, and you didn't uninstall XTU before installing TS then they are fighting each other to set the CPU settings...

If XTU is gone, and only TS is running, then I guess you win the Kewpie Doll prize, you've got a low undervolting CPU. Sorry.

But like you say, your temps are already good, so it's no issue.

Have fun

 

Yea. I uninstalled XTU before I installed ThrottleStop. I now hold the record for the lowest undervolt with an 8750H. I demand my reward!


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IDK if it interests you, but I was able to edge up the undervolt on that Haswell that started out of the box with a maximum of -15mV undervolt, 1mV or 2mV at a time over months to finally end up at -45mV after 18 months.

Then the guy I sold it to ran it stock without undervolt or OC...

Congratulations on your new GS65!!

 

Could you do it exactly as in the post in the link below? Test equal with Cinebench R15, ThrottleStop and Hwinfo/Hwmonitor up. Take screenshoot after 15-20 sec into the benchmark run. I want to see load voltage and Cpu Package power for your Cpu with your undervolt. Thanks

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...r4-owners-lounge.816045/page-30#post-10768261

Edit. As well right before the benchmark is finished.

 

Here you go. -78.1mV for CPU and Cache. Final Score was 1259.

May I ask why'd you want to see my numbers?

 

Seems AC DC loadline "1" is used in unlocked bios. Hence the lower undervolt vs. what the others get. @Falkentyne


And you use stock clocks for i7-8750H ? With 41x for single core.

 

I’m not using an unlocked bios... am I missing something?


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@Papusan @Falkentyne
I thought HID was only doing that on GT75's?? HID are unlocking the GS65 BIOS and tweaking that as well now too?

Those early GT75 BIOS settings were futzing with normal undervolting, but I thought updated BIOS settings fixed that. HID might warn owners about this, so they don't have to go through this discovery process.

I thought other HID GS65 owners were undervolting in the high -150mV to -180mV range already...maybe this is new then?

 

You bough it from HID ? I mean they use those settings for better performance. Regardless, with only -80mv undervolt, the Cpu Package power numbers should normally be higher. But the results is a lot better than many of the others out there.

Edit... See -0.200mv Core and Cashe undervolt for Dell's BGA system. Follow the Cpu Package Power vs. load voltage.

 

Yes, this was purchased from HID. I have the most up to date bios as well. I did not unlock the bios.
Max single core is 39. Dropped it from 41 because I experienced fluctuating performance in games.
I redid the test with max single core at 41, no change from the picture I sent you.


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Ah, so you can OC / tune the multiplier for the cores, that will limit the undervolt, as I mentioned earlier.

Try setting the multipliers back to stock setting instead of all core same multiplier, and see how far you can undervolt.

Of course that may be more academic than you want to spend time on now, you've got an undervolt that works and multiplier setting that works, and temperatures are good, so enjoy.

At least we know some 8750H's in laptops allow tuning the core multipliers, limited OC'ing, but better than nothing.

 

As you see from the pict I posted above, you can see 0.995v load voltage for 39x all cores force +67w package pover. You run 100mv higher load voltage but with less power consumption. Therefore I think there is something in what I already have posted.

 

I did. Still no difference. I haven’t tried going lower than 39x and undervolting.


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Are you setting all core's the same multiplier? I think the default stock setting would be staggered, with highest multiplier on Core 0/1, maybe 2 as well, but dropping down in multiplier core by core.

 

You still talk about OC ?

 

Yup. Everything was at default. That’s where I first started. After undervolting and finding -78.1 as the sweet spot with no crashing or issues, I ran Rise of the Tomb Raider back to back 3 times.
FPS was 73-71-69. Something like that.
I then made all cores 39x. Reran the test and got a 73/72/72. Redid the test with stock multipliers and saw reduced consistency. So, I kept it at 39x.


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Googling I found @unclewebb helping out someone with an 8750H tune TS for optimal performance on CB15:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/940162-i7-8750h-laptop-cinebenching-450cb/

unclewebb hangs out here too:

ThrottleStop Guide
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/

He is probably best to help you with this TS tuning.

IDK, maybe there is another TS setting that will help?

 

He is changing CPU core multipliers, that's changing the default clock's to be higher than stock, so that is overclocking - running higher than default core multipliers reduces the undervolting headroom.

That's what I asked about before, and he said he wasn't OC'ing... I guess I should have asked if he was changing the core multipliers instead?

Why make it so complicated? OC'ing via BCLK, changing multipliers, adjusting CPU parameters to improve performance are all varying forms of OC'ing to affect the performance of the CPU.

 

I think theres some confusion with what I did. I didn't overclock anything. I merely changed the Turbo Ratio Limits in TS to 39x across all cores.

 

If lucky he can mange maybe 103MHz on Bus Clock if this is not fully locked.

I talk about real oc'ing. This is locked clocks. You mean he can run with higher multi?

 

What were the Turbe Ratio Limits before you reduce them, like this:

That's from the other link I posted...

So you are limiting Turbo Boost, reducing performance, underclocking.

So the limits are locked going up, but unlocked going down?

Sorry, I'm trying to figure out what the available tuning is for your 8750H without one to twiddle here.

 

Yeah, setting the multiplier Over the stock Multiplier... but it looks like he is tuning in the other direction, reducing Turbo Boost multiplier limits.

 

Exactly

There was one who thought he could oc his locked down i7-7700Hq BGA as well http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-828#post-10771158

 

My stock ratio limits were 41/41/40/40/39/39.
Regardless of those stock ratio limits or my 39x across the board, I can’t go past -78.1mV without Cinebench crashing or games crashing.
Really, I’m ok with my undervolt. My temps are good, my cinebench scores maxed out at 1269, and I have no issues at all using the laptop.


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Underclocking, overclocking, it affects the undervolt headroom, but in his case he is stuck at -78mV either way.

So I guess he should ask HID about it? See if there is a modded / hacked BIOS setting shipped with his GS65 that might be limiting / affecting undervolt?

Or he just got a outlier CPU that won't undervolt much.

 

Yup, I thought we were done too, but apparently @Papusan wasn't.

He's right though, there's something else going on, as I mentioned, you shouldn't be limted to -80mV range, and HID's pre-setting of that enters in to it somehow, or not.

Ignore us, have fun.

 

If HID is tuning the GS65 and other Bioses for AC DC loadline=1, it is very obvious:
Use static (not adaptive) voltage and disable C-states in the Bios.

example: 1.20v voltage (1200mv).
Then use HWinfo64 and check minimum and maximum VID at idle and load.
If the VID min/max is between 30mv only, example, 1.20v minimum, 1.23v maximum, then IA AC DC loadline is set to 1 in your bios.
The 30mv "increase" is due to AVX loads. AVX loads cause voltage boost by 30mv (this is by design).

If you set 1.20v static voltage, disable cstates, and your voltage ranges spikes from 1.20v to 1.32v-1.35v, then IA AC DC is at default and not tweaked by HID.

 

I’ll try it. I also turn off all undervolts, correct?


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What is easier than test it with clean numbers?

 

So in ThrottleStop FVIR, I set CPU core voltage to unlock, static, and manually adjust the slider to 1.2V? Or adjust the offset? What about cache?


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@Falkentyne ?

 

C-States disabled in Bios, stock values for everything, static voltage for CPU @ 1.2V

 

Put the slider to 1.200V for both Cpu an Cashe.

 

Redid it with both CPU and Cache @ 1.2V