*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11285718

1070 build seems stable enough to pass some benches. Did not OC the GPU, just running it stock. This was a client's laptop that ships to him tomorrow. He had delidding and liquid thermal paste jobs for CPU+ GPU (lowered temps by like 24C on the CPU.. crazy... horrible paste job whomever is assembling these laptops at Eurocom. )

 

Mind linking a good guide for delidding the CPU?


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Is the pasting that bad?!

 

You're welcome

 

Ok so I've been having a problem since I installed dragon center with temps. They've went up quite a bit with the undervolt still applied in xtu and I've turned off the USB and storage boost things that are said to be a CPU hog also and I still get high temps. Does dragon center override the xtu undervolt settings and is that why I'm getting such high temps?


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I've suspected this for some time. I'll uninstall later and test.

 

Just uninstalled dragon center and temps are back to normal. So I guess something in it is wrong. I only used it for the custom fan profiles but temps were higher with even higher fan curves than without the program at all. Seems that xtu and dragon center cannot do an undervolt and custom fan at the same time then.


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Use XTU and Silent Option.

Here's one using the Rockit tool. You don't really need to glue the lid back down (just be careful when placing back into the socket).

 

I saw more thermal paste then i ever saw in my life on a single component, I then was so curious I attempted to measure how thick it was from where it was gushing out of the cracks and corners, and found globs of it under the CPU and in between the seater where the CPU is placed. Anyways it was 6mm thick gushing off the sides of the CPU and heatsink in even directions and about just as wide.
There was enough paste there, to paste 20 CPU's if not more. When I tested stock clocks on the 7700K 4.2Ghz was 98C I placed a delid 6700K in there and got 73C at 4.8Ghz to show you the difference. Also - it was a MASSIVE pain in the ass to remove the heatsink. It was so taught onto the CPU I could lift the entire laptop by pulling the heatsink - this is JUST the stuck on heatsink, no screws actually screwed in - that's how awful the thermal job was. Plus the fact I saw the paste in places I suspect would have caused issues in the future.
In an earlier model, I found 2 screws under the motherboard, this was after already being returned to be replaced for faulty motherboard twice. There are other things, I forget what they are, I should ask my wife because I immediately vent my frustrations to her, and she listens as I describe the issues i'm seeing.
If I had to guess, a teenager is assembling these laptops together in a assembly line practice, one who is bored, is making mistakes, and is not paying much attention anymore. Whomever is signing off on these, I;ve seens issues that were not acceptable on 5 out of 6 laptops. Now Eurocom, if your reading this, it's nothing personal, I've already explained what is happening with these laptops over a month ago, I'm just warning our customers.

Anyways, this is why I suggest buying this specific laptop from a 3rd party. Either a small store or site that does customizations, have them do a thorough inspection. I keep finding things.

Like I will give you an idea - if you guys were to go and buy the barebones - thinking you can upgrade to a 1070 or even 1080 your WRONG. The motherboard and chassis are different. It blocks you from placing the 1070 even, and only lets you place the 1060 or regular MXM cards.

No one is telling you guys this, so I am. However, you can modifiy/chop up your chassis to make it fit. If you were wondering why the M<SI cards have that little tab on them - THIS IS WHY.

These are sneaky practices, what i do not understand is why the big vendors are not telling anyone about it.

Imagine you spend 800$ buying a barebones. You get it, and then have to spend 1300$ on a 1070 and it doesn't fit.
Not only would it have been cheaper to buy the entire system with customization, HDD, RAM, WIFI, CPU, and the video card and have it shipped - the one you purchased prevents upgrades, and even the bios is locked and doesn;t support RAID and because it's a barebones you do not get support !

So - heed my warning - be safe, get some guarantee otherwise when you receive the laptop - do your due diligence, open the back panel up, remove the battery, and disassemble it entirely, very carefully, and check there is no disaster waiting to happen. Otherwise, all that aside, these laptops are FANTASTIC!

But we do now know why the price is unbeatable and of such high value. These must have been assembled by an entire team of people at the factory who didn;t do thier job well, and MSI probably sold the entire line for pennies on the dollar, to avoid having a customer service crisis. Smart move. Now if only Alienware/DELL would learn to do the same thing.

 

If I ever have any problems with my laptop that I can't solve by myself, I will most likely send it to you @woodzstack


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Well hopefully you have no issues at all, and you can always post in this thread or another, to get help to from everyone, if possible.

 

I'm supposed to receive my Tornado F5 on Friday ... I'm starting to be scared as hell with everyone mentioning problem with they GFX card, paste , high temps , doubt about future upgradability...

 

Don't worry bro. So far, only @Krissppy is having issues with his GPU and it could be a mobo issue. The high temps are nothing compared to the BGA notebooks and we have a desktop CPU in addition to the GPU's.

As for the upgradability, I have always been on the fence about that. These laptops feature desktop quality GPU's but these same laptop GPU's cost double what their full fledge desktop counterparts cost. My desktop GTX 1080 cost me around 650 and my Titan Xp cost me 1150. A notebook GTX 1080 cost 1300 to 1400. Very few are going to see those prices and still upgrade their notebook. What I see is replaceability. I believe your version of the F5 will likely have an upgrade path. My version of the F5 probably won't have that option. It will have a custom cooling solution.

The most important thing is to enjoy your purchase and not worry about the future too much. In the computing industry, the next big thing is ALWAYS a few months away.

 

For anyone who have updated Nvidia drivers are you having issues with game crashes.

I sent eurocom a support ticket and the only thing they have said is to use the Nvdia drivers from their own website.

These issues are beyond stupid, I bought this laptop to replace a gaming and business laptop and I cant even do anything on it since it keeps crashing the games that I play. I can use it has a business laptop but why replace a w230ss when it weighs more.

 

Please ask the support team... Are their newest Nvidia drivers on their website updated with the security fix? http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...33-findings-fixes.799334/page-3#post-10415661

 

No issues with crashing with any of the drivers. I was having g-sync issues but that wasn't limited to my laptop or this specific laptop in general. I am able to use any Nvidia driver I've tested so far and no crashing issues at all.

Are you overclocked? Undervolted? What game/games? After a clean install are you making any changes to the Nvidia control panel? On battery or plugged in? Which PSU? OS? System Config?

Confirmed MSI Dragon Gaming Center/Utility 100% is the cause for voltage issues I was having. I've used it since day one for color profiles, custom fan profiles and keyboard lighting but it causes conflicts with this system apparently. It causes the system to add ridiculous amounts of voltage and voltage spikes. I was able to reduce that voltage way down with XTU, but the program seemed to "fight" back and added random voltage spikes here and there. Additionally it would override my XTU settings once in awhile and forced me to go back into the app and reapply the same settings that were already showing applied.

Been testing the last hour or so and it's fully stable and holding the voltage changes I am applying correctly. I installed MSI keyboard light manager. At this point all I am missing is my custom fan profiles and the color profiles for the screen. O well. I'd rather have better voltage control and temps.

 

I was gonna buy this, but you guys scaring me. Maybe ill stick with clevo p67xx...but just curious... the i5 6600k is literally 20 degrees cooler?

 

While I agree with Rage, I feel like another idea must be highlighted.

Look at the F5 as the only CPU upgrade-able option outside of Clevos, and ignore the GPU MXM. This thing has a Thunderbolt 3 port, and eGPUs are starting to flood the market. There's an eGPU from Power Color on Newegg (currently out of stock) for 400 USD. Equip that with the next generation GPU for around 200-500 USD, and you've got a rejuvenated beast. The 1070 should have enough power to easily achieve 60+ FPS for 4+ years (OC may be needed?).

If Clevo would update the P600 series chassis with TB3 and socketed processors, I'm sure they'd make a killing.

Also, every major manufacturer has multiple customers with issues, it happens.

 

shouldn't get scared with 1-2 guys having issues, these laptop stills much better in thermals compare to other BGA laptops. i have recorded 3-4 hours of game sessions on forza horizon 3 without any issue/crashing.

 

Use to have flickering issues but turned off g sync and turned on the one in game and played hours on end gta 5 without high temps and great graphics


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I've had so many problem with my GT62VR, i sent it back and bought the Tornado to avoid as many problem as possible.
Hopefully i get a good one without problem.

6700k is great and i'm excited about trying the laptop for streaming + gaming.
As for the upgradability, i wasn't specifically talking about short team but if in 2-3 years i can upgrade to a GTX 1270 how great would that be? But i just heard about eGpu with thunderbolt 3 and it looks like the future for upgradability so i'm a little less concerned about that now.

MXM already seem's like an old concept that will be left in the dark with the rise of eGpu, thanks for pointing that out i'm less concerned about it now.

 

No issues with mine.. mostly if I crash it's because my undervolt is unstable on the CPU. But zero GPU issues from the beginning. Like other's said, it's like 2 people having an issue, not everybody.

 

I would buy the SSD and memory yourself and save some money. I wouldnt bother with the 7700k, its not much of an upgrade, and stick with the IC diamond.

 

i just got an email from John @Eurocom and i still can make some changes to my order without adding any delays and still get it by friday.

The build i bought currently is :
6700k
850 Evo 250GB
2 x 8 GB Kingston HyperX Impact 2400mhz cl14
Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra paste

The change i can make :
7700k (+95$)
960 Evo 250 GB (+100$)
2 x 8 GB G.Skill Ripjaws 3000mhz cl16 (Sub 34$)
IC Diamond Paste (Sub 50$)

I got an hour to contact them back, i need you guys opinion right now!
is it worth to change anything?

@Talon @Diversion @keftih @woodzstack @Papusan @Rage Set @Mr. Fox

 

I had a crash playing Fallout 4 the other day. It left a "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered." event in the log. It only took about 10 minutes for the crash to occur. I was using driver version 376.20, from the Windows Update catalog. I updated to version 376.33, direct from Nvidia, and it has not crashed since. I will report back if it happens again. It would be nice if all of these crash issues are indeed driver related.

 

I'm currently using 368.79 which was the recommend advice of Eurocom. Those are the drivers that are on their website. It means I wont be able to play battlefield 1. It wont start with these drivers.

When my games crash or freeze I dont get any "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered" message.

 

Depending on the silicon lottery, the 6600K will run 15-20 C cooler than the 6700K. For example, I can run 4.2 GHz on all cores and it will stay around 80 C during stress testing. This is without a delid, no liquid metal, no max fans, no AC cooling etc. A 6700K in this same scenario would likely exceed 90 C. Just don't forget that if you go with the 6600K you sacrifice hyperthreading.

All early reviews have pointed out that the 7700k is not worth upgrading over the 6700k, and especially not for a $95 premium. IMO, I think your original build has better value.

I think you are right in that it sounds like your issue are driver related. The crashing problem that we have been discussing in this thread only has a black screen, and does not have the TDR notification.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.re..._to_bypass_nvidia_driver_version_requirement/

This easy work around will let you play BF1 with the older stable drivers. I used it while gsync was jacked up. Now that it's fixed for me I'm updated again.

Note: this will break the NV control panel. If you need to get back into it just rename the file back.

 

John is great, your in good hands !

I recommend the 960 above the 850 no matter what. 6-7x the speed.
Kingston RAM is faster. Those numbers lie.

I am assembling a laptop pretty much same specs for another client.

 

a tray or OEM 7700K is not worth trading in a potential binned 6700K. I have been testing 7700K's for a week. 3 of them so far can not match the performance of one of my 6700K's that a customer of mine took.

This was stock vs stock. I'm delidding them all. We will see what they can do later...

 

You won't get anything by Friday if you opt for 7700k.. they aren't even out. Otherwise it's a nice setup.

 

I got a nice price so I went with

7700k
960 Evo 250 GB
2 x 8 GB Kingston CL14 / 2400mhz
IC Diamond paste

John said i'il get it by Thursday

 

If you get it on Thursday, i'll chew my words. Would be shocked that Eurocom has some kind of better connection to the 7700K than sites like Newegg/Amazon.

 

NDA were lifted today me thinks with all the YouTuber reviews out. I would assume they will officially launch on Thursday @ CES and thats why Eurocom can ship it early with a Thursday arrival for a customer. Congrats on your build @Rocktaze You will love the system!

 

Interesting. Maybe try the GT62VR 375.63 drivers from MSI? Does using the older drivers help with the crashes?

My crash isn't one where it "presented" an error message or anything to me, the screen just went black momentarily, and when it came back, I was at the desktop. I checked the Event Viewer, and found the error in the logs that I posted above. I then started running GPU-Z, logging in the background, while still using the same driver, but of course it didn't crash at that point. I did notice that the GPU core clock speed is quite high in @Krissppy photos, isn't the 1070N only supposed to boost up to ~1650mhz by default?

 

I dont know yet. I did play world of warships last night for an hour without any crash but I cant test any more out for another few days. I will driving back home today and its a 20 hour drive.

 

Fingers crossed that I will not run into any major issues down the line, glad I took the 2 years warranty option...

 

I doubt this will be a laptop that simply fails down the road, it's more the condition it is received in. Someone is skipping steps in assembling these, where ever that is from, or whomever is testing them and letting them be shipped, is not doing a thorough job of inspection.
However - that being said, for the price/value. Just do it yourself, be careful and your coming out ahead - and probably know your laptop a bit better for it too in the end !

 

My dad made me buy 3 years :/


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Isn't it useless to get 960 for the OS only? I mean it should only be a few second faster but gets really hot and throttle right?

Are you picking those good binned 6700K when someone orders from you? Or did your customer wanted a silicon lottery or just luck?

Eurocom just added the Intel 8265 as one of the options for wifi

 

I tried using Nvidia Inspector at first to downclock it by -50 and it seemed like it ran longer before flickering on and off again. Tried it with afterburner with the same results. My scores on firemark went down of course to 17031 from my usual ~17150ish. Temps stayed the same.

I haven't been able to contact eurocom yet, still have family in town and hopefully I can get some answers by the end of the week.

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when my client was purchasing from me, I presented him the benchmarks of various CPU's I had. I let him pick, it just turns out the one he choose was a retail version. If he wanted the box for it and the INTEL warranty and sticker, I'd give it to him too.

The ones that seem to be lower performing, usually are just badly thermal pasted, and need a delid, when I get a customer who is begging for the lowest price, and doesn;t want anything but the bare chops, I'll offer him this cpu too. You get what you pay for. I am open with what is what, so there is no sneaky practice or anything.

I have many customers who knew I held thier order back a week or two, just to make things perfect, instead of sending them something that would waste thier time and cause further frustration, so it's not like I try and dump low quality CPU's on anyone or anything. I'd probably keep those for me and family members who do nothing but surf the net.

 

Do you think i7 6700K (4.0-4.2 mhz) is worth the extra (+$83) vs the i7 6700 (3.4-4.0 mhz, non-K)? The non-K runs 65W instead of 91W, so I'd think it'd run cooler while still having hyperthreading...but I'd sacrifice the tinkering.

 

Binned i7 for laptops is wasted money. Ok for desktops if you want max OC, but not on laptops. Have not seen SL chips bench better than those from retail in laptops.

K all the way!!

 

@keftih

So it crashed on me again, this time temps were nowhere near last time, peaking to 58c =/ this didn't take long, maybe 10minutes into a game...

 

Now that is odd... I would expect it to be more stable at a lower temperature. Do you have the log file? What application is it crashing in?

 

It all depends on the binning. By the way, I am the client woodzstack is talking about.

Binning gets rid of the truly bad chips for one.

 

The 6700 non-K does run quite a bit cooler, however that is because it is slower. (Just to clarify) The paper specs are a bit misleading. Although Intel lists the 6700 non-K as 3.4-4.0 GHz, the 6700 non-K has a 4-core boost of 3.7 GHz, while the 6700K has a 4-core boost of 4.0 GHz (so actually a 300 MHz difference). That is why the 6700 non-K runs quite a bit cooler.

Whether the 6700K is worth it or not depends if you plan on overclocking in the future. Don't forget you can always downclock the 6700K to match the 6700.

 

Or downclock to BGA speed - load and max 32C degrees without fans running

 

There's a review out for the 7700K version of this Tornado F5 over at notebookcheck.net: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-Tornado-F5-Notebook-Review.189496.0.html

They give it a pretty good thumbs up, but they conclude that there is little to no overclocking headroom on the 7700K due to thermal constrictions. Perhaps they got a badly pasted laptop, and/or their 7700K has poor paste job between IHS and chip. Will be interesting to see how you people's fair with the 7700K in terms of overclocking for 24/7 use. In fact they recommend getting one of the lesser non K CPUs and then instead upgrading from the GTX 1070 to a GTX 1080. My gut feeling is that there is overclocking headroom for the 7700K in these systems as long as everything is optimised & tweaked: delidding & optimal pasting, using minimum voltage for overclock. Although if a system with a non-K CPU + GTX 1080 costed the same as a K CPU + GTX 1070 then I'd go with the Non-K GTX 1080 option anyway.