*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Something is amiss. I hope what was promised is delivered, because I'm going to be a very angry man if I was misled.

 

@Eurocom Support Where is the updated system BIOS? Did you add any additional overclocking and performance tuning options to the BIOS. The laptop in its current state needs better voltage control for the CPU. There is absolutely no reason a stock 6700K is getting supplied upwards of 1.4v!! The only way I've been able to stop this is through the use of Intel XTU and even then STATIC voltages are useless and don't work properly. Offset mode allows me the best control but again the voltage is fighting back and can fluctuate to higher than necessary voltages.

We need BIOS controls over the voltage control. Please get a new and update BIOS with these controls ASAP.

 

Wow, yes, voltage control in BIOS would be good, just to put it in the picture I use 1.29V for my 6700K @4.5Ghz on all cores in my desktop (completely stable for P95 runs, etc), so voltage control would be even more useful for laptop owners where heat dissipation and power limitations are more of a priority!

 

So after reading up on processors a bit more, I figured I'd better ask a question or 2 to the socketed laptop owners.

How's the variance in performance/heat/stability when downclocking the 6700k versus the 6700?

Does the 6600k produce as much heat as the i7s?

I'm mainly playing games (FPSs @ 1440p/144Hz), so single core performance being the same should be good. Just wanna make sure she stays cool.

 

I'm running a delidded 6700k at 4.3 and my temps at idle range from 26 to 32C with a cooling pad in a bigger DTR (P870DM-G). My ambient temps are cold though. An undervolt will serve you better than a downclock in my opinion to keep your performance.

 

for me its better thn 6700hq. my cousin has a Asus laptop with 1070 and 6700hq, during gaming it can reach 90+ on cpu. where as for me i have never seen more thn 80c @ 4ghz(no repaste or de-lid) and around 65-70c on GPU in demanding games. i do have a undervolt but the ambient are no where cold and air dissipation is not good where laptop resides either.

 

I was already intending on the undervolt. Just trying to get an idea of the thermals on a downclock. I just want thermal info on general paste and undervolt under gaming loads.

 

I think the new BIOS is not unlocked... Also @woodzstack made a post last Monday, stating that while there is a new BIOS for Kaby Lake already, it is not backwards compatible with Skylake yet. It'll probably take another 1-2 weeks to iron out the bugs.

The 6600k runs 15-20C cooler than the 6700k. I'm running at 4.2 GHz using 50% fan, and temps hover around mid 70's when gaming (not delidded). However, keep in mind that you lose hyperthreading!

 

My 6700K hits the low 80's during gaming, that's with stock paste, stock cpu frequencies, no mods apart from 140 mV undervolting, with fans on auto. It usually idles around 40. I've got the 230 watt psu and it's fine for normal use although I think I found it's limits when I tried a bit of overclocking. Auto fans are pretty quiet even under load so it would definitely be possible to run a bit cooler if you can tolerate running them a bit faster.

 

Hi all,

I wanted to share the amazing news and pictures of the New Ultimate Tier of the Eurocom Tornado F5 featuring the Nvidia GTX 1080, Intel 7700K CPU, and DDR4-3200 memory.

New configurator is live: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,384,0)ec

Also updated first post with new features!






Cheers,

-Div

 

Thanks for the good information!

That's a substantial difference. It's almost kind of crazy the delta there.

I know about hyper-threading, but is there really any benefit to it in gaming applications? I do the occasional coding/compiling, but nothing with video/picture editing. The most multi-tasking I might do is Teamspeak/Discord along side the game with a web-browser sitting in memory.

I don't intend to overclock what so ever. If I need to upgrade my processor/laptop, I'll do so. Seems like these units can stay pretty cool with mildly adjusted fan speeds, a re-paste, and under-volt.

 

@woodzstack I bought the F5 6700k with stock 8gb ddr4 2400 ram but want to put in another 24gb For video editing.
1) does it matter if I go 4x8gb vs 2x16?
2) How hard is it to access the top side of the laptop to install the memory.

Thanks.

 

Update: Tornado F5 Overclock Competition

We (@Johnksss and @Mr. Fox) should have the registration link and required email for the contestants from @Eurocom Support in 2 to 3 days, so everyone start honing your overclock skills and finding out what your max stable overclock tweaks look like. As soon as I have that, I will create a new thread for those that have what it takes to "ride the wind" with their Tornado F5.

A few details to wet your whistles (more to follow at the start of the deathmatch)...

Entry Requirements:

• Eurocom Tornado F5* equipped with GTX 1070 or lower GPU spec
• During the registration period (date to be announced) visit and “Like” the Eurocom Facebook page located at https://www.facebook.com/EurocomTechnology and write a message on the Eurocom Facebook page sharing why you love your Tornado F5 so much.
• The contest will consist of four rounds of competition with the benchmarks shown in the table below. Each round of the competition lasts for one week.

​

*Note: contest is also open to owners of a generic equivalent non-BGA MSI 16L13​

Validation:

All benchmarks require a screenshot at least 1920*1080 resolution showing:

• Benchmark software window displaying the score results
• Three open instances of CPU-Z showing Main, Motherboard and Memory tabs
• One instance of GPU-Z displaying the main Graphics Card tab
• All benchmark results except for wPrime and Cinebench require an online validation URL
• A small Notepad window showing the contestant’s Notebook Review Forum user name and validation URL (except for the wPrime and Cinebench screen shots, which require only the forum user name)

The following are examples of acceptable screen shot validation:

< click > ​

So, go ahead and download the required software in preparation for the competition and get your free image hosting accounts set up if you do not have them already. (We recommend imgur or postimg.org for this.) Between now and the start of the competition, you can practice and familiarize yourself with CPU-Z validation and how to set cores/threads for wPrime, etc. Any questions please feel free to post and tag me or @Johnksss for assistance.

Download: CPU-Z

Download: wPrime

Download: Cinebench R11.5

Download: Cinebench R15

Download: Futuremark Software (All)​

 

Most modern games do benefit from hyperthreading. You won't see much difference in average framerates, but hyperthreaded CPUs tend to have better minimum framerates (e.g. less stutter). DigitalFoundary did a great video about it here (keep an eye on the frametimes):


The 6600k is often cited as having the best price/performance ratio if you are purely focused on gaming. However, without overclocking, that value is diminished. If you never want to overclock even in the future, you will probably want to wait and pick up the i7-7700 "non-K" as it has a decent frequency bump over the i7-6700 non-K.

 

@Mr. Fox I am getting Power Limiting in XTU with 200W, 200W, 200A. Any tips?

 

This score is only 5% less than a GTX1080

 

If you are using XTU please post a screen shot showing your settings. You could max all of those sliders out without any harmful effect as those are dynamic (unlike voltage). Are you using ThrottleStop as well as XTU? If so, post those settings as well.

 

Update:

Finally got my laptop back yesterday... I have to say I am really really pissed off @eurocomsupport . This is just ridiculous... I've voiced my concerns over the phone before having them ship it back to me regarding the mobo because the chances of replacing a faulty gpu 3x in a row is seriously unheard of. They assured me that the technician was thorough in his tests and that he was confident it was nothing else. Lo and behold, I'm having the same damn issues again just a couple hours after playing Total War Attila and Warhammer. It starts off slow, screen flickering and display driver issues. I know it's just a matter of time before it starts to crash. I didn't do a damn thing to the laptop, didn't even bother to repaste or update drivers. I used it as it is straight from them.

Being it's the weekend, I don't have a choice but to wait until I get them on the phone Monday. There's no point in me emailing them since they barely respond anyway. I've tried to be patient and understanding since the beginning but this is just stupid. I seriously hope they don't expect me to pay to ship this back to them.

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I wish I could have tested your system to find out what this was.

in the future, you can always buy from someone who can test it for you as a third party, and avoid getting anything like this - IF YOU THINK THEY SHIPPED YOU SOMETHING THAT WASN'T SOLID.

However, I wonder if it's an NVidia driver issue or if your using one of the early bioses for Kabylake or something, or if G-Sync is active and it's the cause of this (wouldn't be surprised)

What software shows the signs of issues, or does this happen on the desktop ?

 

Any graphic intensive game brings it on. Gsync is off, I'm using the same driver they used to test it 375.95, I don't think I'm using an early bios since I got this back at the end of October. I tried updating to the newest nvidia driver and I'm still getting the same. Temps are fine, something seems to throttle the power to the gpu and locks it down as you can see in the attached picture (greyed out). This is exactly what happened before.

I didn't know you could have it shipped to a 3rd party vendor to test it. It's unfortunate I couldn't spend as much time with it when I first got it since I ended up going on vacation for 2 weeks. The damnest thing is it seems to run benchmarks like firestrike just fine.. my graphics scores are around 17k to 17300.

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it literally could be windows doing this. It likes to uninstall things and then re-install things... who knows. The information there is not conclusive of anything, except it shows severe throttle on the GPU.

It doesn;t seem to thermally throttling, nor is it caused by the CPU either. I blame the driver, and probably windows trying to update it while your using it.

Eurocom wouldn't deliberately screw you over or anything, you could have an anomaly, no one else is coming forward with any similar issue, it could be isolated to you for some unyet known reason.

What steps have been taken to fix/remedy this so far , maybe this can help us figure out what else we can try.

 

?

You didn't say anything, but quoted him twice... just letting you know.

 

The text of their reply was accidentally buried in the quotes. Here is what was said:

There has to be a reasonable explanation for the problem. If you play the games running with max fans (for the purpose of testing) does this still happen? I'm leaning toward it being a thermally induced condition, but hard to say without much to go on. What causes me to think that is benchmarks are fine and it's only something that happens after a longer sustained period of the GPU being under load. If it is thermally triggered, it could be the testing process did not endure long enough for the heat to build up to the point of the driver unloading and causing the Windows TDR "crash" that is being observed.

TDR = Timeout Detection and Recovery "{ Display driver} stopped responding and has recovered"

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2665946

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff570087(v=vs.85).aspx

If not thermally induced, it could just be a buggy driver and a simple driver version change could fix the problem. It could also be a bad GPU, but that is less likely that the other possibilities.

 

So, @Krissppy I am looking at this photo you posted...

Spoiler: 1070 Clocks and Power Draw

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/e8f9a8b0493d6e5642d37316ac52f762.jpg

Is 1898MHz core and 2,003MHz memory with about 120W draw really what your 1070 is running playing games with stock clocks? I don't own 1070 and don't know what "normal" should look like, but I think that's possibly your driver crashing issue right there. Maybe other 1070 Tornado F5 owners can comment on it, but the memory clock appears to be sky-high, bro. My Clevo 1080 GPUs are running at nowhere near this memory speed stock (see below).

Spoiler: 1080 Clocks and Power Draw

Edit: Nevermind... GDDR5 versus GDDR5x... my bad. I think that memory clock is correct for 1070 GDDR5.

 

chances it's the GPU are low.

However one thing I observe is the lack of much high and low in the temps.. as if that HWinfo was not running the whole time. So if it was not running, we do not see the temps from running the game. Going up only +9C to 67C seems unreasonable, as if nothing more then it's reporting the temperature it climbed down from at the moment it was started.

So - unless that reading is 100% accurate from when the game was running, then it might very well be thermal throttling, but then the whole point of showing those was pointless since it's not showing what we needed to see.

The reason i suspect it was started after the crash, or might even be related to the crash - is because it shows 98% usage, but VERY low temperatures recorded. It shows full power to the card 1.044v/1.885GhzGPU/1.250GhzMEM etc...

ALSO to be fair, 98% usage is very high. I would have to suspect you were running a bench mark or something incrediblydemanding, but again, your stock, no load temperature - IDLE TEMPS- would not be WITHIN 10C or 98% load on the GPU.... something doesn't add up.

There is either misinformation, or an incredibly odd/rare issue. OR - this is not a stock setting, and someone who knows what they're doing like me or you did the cooling on that GPU.

(Or is that your info and not his ? I can't see his, it's too blurred out, so not sure what your showing.) If that HWinfo is yours Fox, then forget what I'm referring too, since I was assuming that was his, with a crashing happening.

Okay my bad - reread your post missed the part that it was YOUR clevo... bah !

anyways happy newyears !

 

Good point... if the sensor stopped working we may not actually know the max temperature before it stopped reading the thermals. And, 63°C doesn't seem right for max temperature after gaming for a while. That's too low to be accurate for a laptop with normal fan operation.

I'd still be interesting in knowing if forcing max fans before starting the gaming session makes the TDR problem go away.

 

I'm not saying eurocom is deliberately trying to screw me over, I'm just upset that they didn't consider my concerns after I saw on the service log that all they did was replace the GPU. I've reinstalled windows maybe 4x, tried all the nvidia drivers using DDU, tested it after clean installs with and without updating anything, tried all combinations of gsync/vsync/fast sync on and off, ran games from ultra down to low settings, adjusted the gpu power settings from the nvidia control panel, had geforce experience installed and uninstalled, used max fans and auto fans, undervolted, repasted... that's about what I can remember off the top of my head. I know I tried other fixes from searching online in the nvidia forums and reddit too like changing that TDR.

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Undervolting is not a good approach to computing if you want stability... and, especially a bad idea with a GPU. Pascal already runs ridiculously low voltage and if you are undervolting the GPU instead of leaving it stock voltage, that alone can cause the TDR problems if the GPU is being voltage-starved. (The behavior would be exactly the same as overclocking too much without increasing the voltage to allow for it.) Not sure if that's still the case, but if it is not running stock voltage I would undo the undervolt and see if the problem goes away using stock GPU voltage.

 

The thing is, just like the previous 2 gpu's, it would take a while in gaming for it to start showing problems. Eventually it wouldn't take long at all to the point where just starting a game in Total War would cause it to crash. Using max fans doesn't fix it either using gpu-z and hwmonitor show similar temp readings... what are the chances the sensors are faulty? Total war is a demanding game, its fine at small battles but as soon as I have more than 2 stacks of armies on the field it starts acting up. Eventually crashing to the point before I can hit the Start Battle button.

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My bad, undervolting the cpu not gpu. Also tried using stock voltage for the cpu and it didn't make a difference - not that I expected it would.

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Just asking questions and offering ideas since I don't have the ability to put my hands on it. What about other games? Is it the same problem, or is this the only one you are experiencing issues with?

It is possible that extensive testing might not reveal a problem if the conditions that trigger the problem are not present to replicate the issue while testing.

 

Oh dude I'm so grateful you guys are taking the time to help me out I do notice it on Battlefield 1 and Fallout 4 but not as often. Gears of War 4 seems affected too, in the beginning I was able to play it but it's been unplayable (now it won't even load) ever since. I notice very very faint screen flickering, like a haze almost, every once in a while and this occurs on the desktop as well as in game, but rare. Lastly, I think it might be related but often times the laptop won't boot after turning it on. I'd have to power it down then hit the power button again.

I was worried that the testing eurocom would do might not bring it up, this I brought up to their attention too.

Oh, @eurocomsupport my service tag is #41973.
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I have encountered similar symptoms before... Crashes are very random, and virtually impossible to reproduce consistently. However, my crashes are intermittent, and occur rarely (~1 crashes per month) so I did not bother contacting Eurocom. It looks like whatever is causing it is much more severe on @Krissppy's system.

 

i have this faint flickering on forza horizon and bf 1 but very rare. i played both games for max session of 1-2 hrs but never crashed unless i do very high overclock on gpu since we'r locked and cant increase volt. seems your issue is alot more frequent.

 

Have you checked the stability of the RAM, maybe you have bad system RAM (not talking about GPU VRAM)? You could use something like Memtest86+ to test the stability of the RAM, often times flaky RAM can cause all kinds of issues. Could be a long shot, but might be worth a try.

 

Yep, ran memtest a couple times. Ran it with the stock 8gb of ram it shipped with and the 32gb I installed, no errors.

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The flickering on screen is gsync related. I had the exact issue and reported on it awhile back in this thread. I solved it by updating to the latest Nvidia drivers. Then turning on G-Sync in NV control panel. Also select V-Stnc to on, Max Perf, and Single Display Perf in NV control panel.

The flickering is now gone while gaming and it locks the display to 63hz and gsync is on.

 

Dear All Tornado F5 Owners. We are planning to release new BIOS around Jan 7 so please submit request to our Support Team https://web.eurocom.com/ec/supportr()ec
New BIOS will support 7700K, DDR4-3000/3200 and NVME RAID 0/1. Happy New Year.

 

I totally understand your frustration too, I just want to let you know, they are the distributor more so then a brand OEM like say - MSI, so instead of having hundreds of employee's and staff to service you, they a few dedicated guys who are a tight knit family getting the job done. All good people too. They try hard to service everyone equally, but if Eurocom has a weakness it's keeping on track in real time with communication. I know the Owner must walk around with a smart phone and replies to messages, because at any hour of the night or day he's ontop of things, even in holidays, but not everyone can do that, so imagine your one of the dozen people working for Eurocom, and arrive at your desk early, and you got a lineup of people at the door wanting to come into the show room on a busy season, and telephone is ringing off the hook, and then emails are flooding in - each one valid, 95% needing to be sorted and designated to an appropriate person for the right response, but some of them need a few communications back and forth to get things sorted. it's a nightmare, I alone get 100+ emails everyday. I'm a SINGLE person... (not true I have David too, in time you guys will known him.. )... it's crazy, but it's taken me like 2-3 years to fall into a routine that works in getting these things sorted. When i was new to this, I had tried sticky notes to follow up on things - OMG I had notes everywhere all over the screen -desk -keyboard -table-mouse-on my coffee mug etc..

My best advice is to be patient, BUT - send them a new email everyday, but make sure a SITREP or the previous convo is viewable in the message, so that details can be tracked more efficiently. If they have to , like me, follow up - and that is missing - then expect your email to get pushed down the priority for a few minutes while we go find the rest of the conversation to know the context, that wastes time, and anything can happen in that moment, and have to start over. If the date on your email then says 1-2 days ago, and it says it was read - we might even forget it thinking we addressed whatever issue or concern there was, not on purpose, but every company, even a tight knit family like one, still has a few new employee's doing thier best, but who haven't found the way to keep all this incoming traffic sorted out. No one in the right mindset tries to ignore a customer or pretend there is nothing and hope it goes away, even in the worst situations - it's time proven best option to address your clients and satisfy them no matter what it takes.

SO know in full confidence, they probably made small mistake in communication and nothing more, you should just send them a email letting them know your thoughts and experience, leave any ego or heavy feelings out of it, and be direct, and follow up with it once a day until you get through. If they were a big Corp like DELL, I'd give you tips on how to nail them down in a coffin and bury them ~! Just this is entirely different type of company.

what version will this be based on ? v4 or like 3.03/3.06 etc.. ?

 

Is this BIOS version backwards compatible with Skylake?

 

currently the test bioses , the first iteration that supports Kabylake, is not backwards compatible with Skylake. But the one they are referring too that will have the M.2 RAID options and such will be backwards compatible or is supposed to be, if not it will be in a very near future, it's one of the things for the newer bioses.

 

I'm also getting random crashes on games that I play. I dont see any gpu resetting driver messages. I've had the laptop for about 6 weeks now but I really havent time to hit down and installed all of the games until 2 weeks ago.

When I play Total war rome 2, the game will freeze or crash to desktop. Its not just a one time deal, its almost every game. So I stopped playing it and went back to war thunder, that game will freeze then reset but I still dont get the drivers reset message with Windows 10, this is the 1st laptop I've had with windows 10.

I havent had time to test out many other games, world of warships also does the same but it seems to does it less often. The laptop only crashes when I play games. It has never crashed when I run Boinc at 100% or any other time. It seems to crash less often with g-sync off. Its not the temperatures since they are within normal operating range. And its not the undervoltage, I can run the cpu at 100% for days without one crash.

I havent had time to fully test out everything because I work selling online and this time of the year is the busiest for my business and I dont have the laptop with me. I took my small business laptop. I cant replace my current business laptop with the F5 until all of these issues are worked out. I get back home on Sunday or Monday so I'll be calling Eurocom on Monday for a possible RMA.

 

When I get my hand on my F5 R2, I will be able to help you guys. The random display driver crash that is plaguing this DTR is a bit worrisome. Often times it is a buggy driver that causes the trouble but it is not uncommon for a mobo to be a cause. I wonder if these Pascal GPU's are getting enough power from the mobo.

 

@eurocomsupport

I haven't been able to get a video of it flickering and crashing it yet, I only have a cell phone to record with. Eventually once the frequency picks up I'll be able to time it. It just crashed on me at the moment playing Total War Warhammer again and I took the following pictures in the hope that it might provide any additional info. The gpu-z sensor log pics is from before, when it occurred, and after. The "PerfCap Reason" listed both Pwr and VRel as the reasons.




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I think screen captures or uploading that log file might be helpful... The pictures are quite blurry.

 

I uploaded the images, hopefully these links work.

https://i.imgsafe.org/9c1fdb413f.jpg

Before
https://i.imgsafe.org/9c23e1ecb9.jpg

During
https://i.imgsafe.org/9c2411ba49.jpg

After
https://i.imgsafe.org/9c2431cc93.jpg

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The person who played my laptop the last few days might have captured a screen of a crash. I'll upload it when I get to California in a few hours.

 

For future reference, you can use the "PRT SCR" button on the keyboard and then paste the image (CTRL+V) into Microsoft Paint to get a direct screen capture.

The photos you provided show the GPU clock dropping to 0 MHz which obviously indicates the crash. The crash occurred immediately after your GPU core temp peaked at 71 C (which is still a very reasonable temp for a GPU). However, this is Pascal and due to GPU Boost 3.0, temperature, clock speeds, and voltage are more related than ever. I think it's no coincidence that your peak temp and the crash occurred at the same time.

Since you seem to be able to reproduce the crash relatively reliably, maybe you can help us narrow down the culprit? Can you download MSI Afterburner, downclock the core by 50 MHz (see screenshot below), and then click the "Apply" button? Try running the crashing application again after doing so.

If it is a driver issue, it's a persistent one. I've experienced these crashes across multiple driver versions (albeit the occurrence is rare for me, crashing only once every few weeks).

 

I'll give that a shot and let you guys know!



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