Feast your eyes on the new leaked images of T410s

While that fact is true, Lenovo thinks about profit first and they (or someone in their marketing/sales department) obviously believe that it would be less beneficial for them to go towards that option, hence why Lenovo responded that they don't believe the investment of getting a good supply of screens is worth it.

 

couldnt say it better

 

No doubt they think that. However, a quick review of say Apple's profit numbers vs Lenovo's makes it patently obvious that no one at Lenovo HQ is likely to be nominated to the hall of fame in marketing or business strategy.

 

Skagen you do not need to insult peoples' intelligence. Also one could argue that Lenovo's and Apple's market segments are very different. If you wanted to do a comparative financial analysis, I wouldn't say Lenovo and Apple are the best two companies to directly compare. Lenovo and HP or Dell's business segments however, would be.

But anyways, yes, Apple's marketing department is amazing. They create a lot of value-added through marketing.

 

the problem wth marketing segmentation is imo that only aple seems to have realized the trend that business and private requirements dont differ.

 

Marketingactually much more than that nice ads, nice taglines or nice colours. It has to do with understanding customer needs and defining products properly.

Think about it - they launched a $1800 "high-end" super-mobile laptop that has a 5 cent screen?

I mean for this price point and type of product - will buying response from the customer base for such a product be bigger if it contains a top notch screen? Or less? Hmmmmmm lets think about it. Actually I dont have to. Its crystal clear to me.

We are not talking about $700 pile em high and sell it high product. And that is why the product needs to be simply put, true. It has be be what it claims to be. Top notch.

If Lenovo had a marketing team that was top notch, they wouldnt have dropped the ball on that.

Will they drop the ball again on the T401s? Well I dont have faith, but we will see.

 

Skagen,

I am not saying Apple does not create production value. BMW also has a sizable value-added component from marketing. Does BMW make junk or disregard what its customers want and think?

I was complimenting Apple in that success. You don't need to add assumptions to my comments. Thanks.

I am happy for your clear insight of the consumer electronic business.

 

I wasnt debating what you said, I was elaborating on it, because when you say that, people often misunderstand "value-marketing" as creating value by pushing products, rather than actually defining them based on real needs . And its the latter that really makes the difference.

And that is what I am waiting to see here. Its version II of this product line. Lenovo really cant have an excuse if they dont hit the mark this time.

 

I bet you're still going to buy Thinkpads regardless of what Lenovo does to it, wouldn't you? That's what I gather from the scores of Thinkpad fans here, i.e. as long as the price continues to be as low as they are or even lower, they will still sell because a lot are still ignorant about better offerings from the competition. The logic being as long as it's a Thinkpad, it must be good.

 

I apologize. I took your explanatory nature to be directed towards my comment specifically.

 

Personally no. I have held off my purchase of a new mainline laptop for now to see what comes out in January. I would have bought the T400 or T400s if they had good screens but they didnt. I considered the T500 but at this point in time, didnt want to get a CCFL screen - that technology is going out.

So I am waiting to see what Lenovo puts out for T410 and T510 in January. still no top notch LED screen, then fair enough, that's enough chances given and I will buy the 15" Macbook, which is what I would have done if forced to buy today.

But IMO its a shame that one cant count on Lenovo to have no-compromise laptops in what is claimed to be their flagship line. Almost all the pieces are there - just spoiled by one piece of mindless corner-cutting.

 

Why a Macbook? You could have gone for a Dell Precision with RGBLED displays if you wanted a good display today. The Macbook has lower resolution, a worse screen than the RGBLED option on the Precision and arguably less expansion capabilities. It is a poor business/corporate grade laptop. It seems like you want a consumer notebook, hence I figured the Thinkpad is a poor choice to begin with. I do agree with you that Lenovo should give Thinkpads better screens, but I have always found Thinkpads to be pretty irrelevant nowadays as I've seen much better business notebooks from other vendors and don't find Thinkpads to set the benchmark for business grade notebooks anymore. Lenovo's support hasn't been business class for quite a while, so it appears that they have really lost the plot when it comes to understanding the corporate market. It's a good thing they still have the brand recognition to rely on because that's what sells.

 

I am sorry. But I disagree with you and I agree with chrixx.

Why a MacBook Pro? Marketing has been good for Apple, but if you tell me a MBP is top-notch I highly disagree. It has a nice screen yes, but it is low resolution at WXGA+.

And hardware-wise if that is top-notch, I think you should double check what's out there on the market. Having a soldered CPU and a soldered GPU on the MOBO is not good, nor upgradeable. Starting from there. Next on, is that the GPU used is a 9600M GT, which is now 2 generations old, being the GT130M the replacement and the GT240M the next one. And the 9400M has been replaced too. So graphics wise, it is not top-notch. Now about the CPU, it is good, but you can't upgrade. And the only way to get a better one is with a new laptop. Battery is inside, so if it dies (and it will die eventually) it will be a pain to remove and replace (not to mention it voids the warranty last time I checked).

Continuing thru the top-notch MBP, the software is largely non-compatible with tons of professional apps, at least in my sector, 3D modeling/CAD/DCC/CAM is not Mac OSX friendly, so that is a no-go, and everyone knows how poorly supported MS is under a Mac.

I do agree that BQ is quite good, and makes the laptop very resistant, but it has its downsides. The MBP gets hot while stressed (stressed means: not in a coffee shop browsing the web, but actually using the laptop). It is heavier than most regular laptops with similar specs. And the fact that it is from aluminum is also a weak point, if it ever scratches. A friend of mine dropped his, it had a dent, and it could not be fixed, and the lid did not close anymore. Such a shame.

IMO if you want a good business laptop you have the EliteBooks and the Latitudes/Precisions too. Being the 8730w and the M6400 two laptops with the best screens available, and the M400 uses a RGBLED screen too. They have more advantages in general if you ask me. It is fairly easier to upgrade (RAM, HDD, CPU, Wifi) than a MBP (which is will be voided even by looking at it!! ok ok little exaggeration). But my point is, the direct competitor of Lenovo is not Apple. ThinkPads compete with Latitudes and EliteBooks.

And I do know that the Latitudes and ThinkPads nor EliteBooks have the latest GPU, but they have the upgradeable CPU and (supposedly) better costumer support. And hot swappable ODD/HDD bay or 2nd battery, and port replicator, and ultrabay, extended batteries, etc. More connections, lighter body, more transportable, etc.

 

But that's the point you see. These days all these units are powerful enough for general use. Focus on maxing specs is, sorry to say, but kind of a geek thing. Most people want something that works and works well.

In that vein the resolution of the screen is a good example. Do I want the max pixels or do I want good pixels. 1440 x 900 with 500:1 contrast ratio IMO is more than good enough reion. But adding more pixels, "high nit", albeit at 96:1 contrast ratio is not better. That is what Lenovo does. As for Dell, actually I looked at those but their 5 cent Alps touchpad is a non starter for me, added to which the BS of battery with short run time that dies after one year. Nu uh. Sorry. I have a Dell at work and I know exactly why not.

Similarly the question with 9400 GPU is not latest but, will it do what I need and do it well. The answer is yes. So specs chasing there is misleading.

So this is the step up that I am looking to see PC makers take. And in particular on this model by Lenovo. Anyway I am in no hurry to buy, so I will wait and see.

 

so basically youre just complaining about the screen...

this is the lenovo forum and people here will continue to purchase thinkpads regardless of the small differences in screen quality between models.

have fun typing on a chicklet keyboard btw...

 

anyone has the x210 pictures?

 

Agreed. HP offerings are extremely well built now, though I am not a fan of the styling. I went from a T60p to a M4400 (rather than a w500) primarily because of the RGBLED and GPU (i'm an architect), but I have my complaints about the Dell as well (backlit keyboard's not as nice to type on as the unlit one, the finish isnt nearly as nice, the trackpad and point are terrible, serious heating issues, vga port is too embedded in the case, wish the rgbled was a little less glossy, etc ... and that's before getting into the three main boards that have had to be replaced...) and I am raring to pick up a W510 and ditch the dell so long as a decent display is offered with it.

 

Come on, these T410s images are obviously fakes...! The guy that forged them did not even care to put the "twin thinklights" nor to remove the T400s latches on this picture. Nor did he add the second usb port on the left side of this picture. There are other details that do not fit. It is kind of crazy to see these retouched pictures all over the place (do a web search with "thinkpad T410s"!), as if there was any reality here. They are, at best, wishful thinking.

 

This quote is what I find interesting:

"Also ask Apple, because actually while the lemmings are racing to the bottom, Apple is able to command even more of a premium simply by marketing well built laptops with a good screen and touch pad. And focusing their branding on that instead of discounts and coupon. With that they have the leading market share in laptops sold above a thousand bucks. Its really that simple."

Last time I checked, Apple was a monopoly on hardware products that run OS X, so of course they can charge a premium! (I'm not knocking OS X, Apple, etc. - they make nice products, but it's obvious the price premium (profit) is tied directly to the hardware they sell, even when that hardware is commodity.) As you may recall, Sony had the best screens in the business a few years back, but couldn't maintain a premium against the more competitive PC market.

Thinkpads USED to command premium prices, but competition has brought them down to parity with the big players. Also, Thinkpad (true ones, T series, etc.) are engineered and built better, so you are actually getting premium product at a bargain price.

Poor liquid on a Macbook, or drop it from a ledge. The Thinkpad will survive, the Macbook is an expensive paperweight.

If money is no object, then get whatever you want; I just find for the price a of a single Macbook, I can get two Thinkpads (maxed out T400's). I won't even go into accessories prices or upgradability. As long as Mac are 2x more than a Thinkpad, I'll just stick with Win 7 and the uncool PC ;-)

 

Not true, I'm afraid. I love my T61 but if Lenovo doesn't offer a better screen selection in January/February, I'm going to look elsewhere.

 

Perhaps I am geeky? lol naaaahh me be hahaha

Well the res depends on what you are planning to do, but there is a valid point. That 96:1 was almost insulting when I saw it...and the ALPS is a PITA.
Indeed Apple has done good things overall, but my point was that for the price they ask, the hardware from a performance point of view is not on par.

I would love to see a long battery life laptop with good specs overall, without those CULVs. That is a +1 for Apple, battery life is quite good. PC on the other hand has the flexibility of extra batteries, secondary, ultrabay, ports, etc.

What I a trying to say is that PC is a lot more flexible than a Mac, and has to suit A LOT more people.

But, anyways, dont make this a Apple vs PC war, or we both get in trouble...lol

What drove me off ThinkPad now that I bought a laptop was the screen in fact. The fact of low brightness and CCFL backlight. And the lack of eSATA and the smallish touchpad. If not, I would have gotten the W500...

 

This is the new laptop I will be buying for the new year (hopefully in January as predicted release date). The only slight disappointment is that it has two thinklights rather than a backlit keyboard.

 

Has anyone actually typed on a backlit keyboard here? From my experience, they generally feel more hollow and cheap than their standard counterparts and considering how particular thinkpad users are with tactile feedback, it may actually be a good thing they are sticking with the thinklights.

 

If they added the backlit keyboard everyone would complain that the feeling of the keys changed etc

I want to buy a T400s, but having a T60 makes me wonder - how bad will my new screen be?

 

Why did they mess up the Esc and Delete keys though?

 

I really like the feel and response of the Latitude E6500/Precision M4400 backlit keyboard and do not feel that it is significantly better or worse than the Lenovo T500's keyboard, but as with most things, this is purely subjective. You will find a lot of users who love their backlit keyboards and a lot of others who love their ThinkPad and won't give it up for the world.

 

oh well, 13 pages of discussion going around a circle which has little to do with an original posting and a link to some wishful thinking photoshoped picture (IMHO). I said it before and will repeat again after using my T400s since July: I owned a number of different Thinkpads, and this one BY FAR is the best. But, the screen is HORRIBLE. Period. I don't use my laptop on a steady surface and CONSTANTLY have to adjust lid angle because slight (and I really mean 'slight') deviation from a sweet spot results in washed out colors. This TN screen is really bad, but you get used to it. Although build quality is ROCK SOLID, the plastic case shell is a little on a flimsy side, and I already had a piece of lower right corner (next to wi-fi on/off switch) chipped off. Of course, under warranty its all fixable

 

I wish the design became more like the T61p, audio ports on the side and basically the same as the T400 and T500.

 

Again, these pictures are 100% fake, see my previous post for evidence. There is nothing telling us the T410s will have two thinklights.

 

True. Whether this is a legitimate leak or not, the ThinkPad T410s is coming. So, I guess there is the possibility of a backlit keyboard if the photos are fake. I own two laptops with a backlit keyboard and have no complaints about the keyboard on either of them.

 

You will certainly be dissapointed...Backlit keyboard yeukkk.
Thinkpads aren't fashionable and cool like those eye-candy Macs.

When I was younger, I was into pretty faces when it comes to girls but as I matured, personality and other practical qualities moved up to the top of my list.

 

Besides going out with an average looking girl means less competition

 

Backlit keyboards are the equivalent of putting a giant rear wing or a fart can muffler on a honda civic. It is eye candy rice, pure and simple. I do not expect Lenovo to add a feature that could change the feel of the keyboard and add to the cost just for the sake of visual eye candy - the T-series has never been about that.

 

Has anyone tried a backlit keyboard on a ThinkPad yet? Is it completely impossible that Lenovo might retain most if not all of the feel of their non-backlit keyboard? For me, a backlit keyboard is more than eyecandy and extremely useful while working in dimly light or dark rooms, especially for the F function Page Up / Page Down keyboard shortcuts etc. And, it is easier to adjust screen angle with backlit keyboard compared to Thinklight.

I'd suspend judgment until it is possible to try both side-by-side, if it ever happens of course.

 

Come back and give us an update on this one when you hit your mid life crisis

 

Can a backlit keyboard be spill proof? I thought it couldn't but again I'm not sure.

 

Is the keyboard the same as teh T400s or is the new chiclet the X100 and the new 13 inches use?

 

Perhaps Lenovo will provide two keyboard options:

1. ThinkLight & Standard Keyboard (for those who won't settle for anything less than an unadulterated "legendary ThinkPad typing experience"... and gravitate towards practical girls.)
2. Back-lit Keyboard (for those who won't settle for anything less than a giant rear wing spoiler, fart can muffler, and under car neon lights on their Honda Civic... and gravitate towards pretty girls.)

pimp that ThinkPad. booyah!

 

I thought the point of learning to type was so that you don't need to see the keyboard.

 

I like the quote in your sig very much. Very true.

 

In the future, people will look back and say, "Can you believe they used to bang on a keyboard."

btw, if you can hit F1 thru F12 randomly three times in a row in the dark without a mis-hit, i'll pay you $100

make that one time

 

What do you mean by what people would say? I don't get it. Are you saying that the keyboard will be obsolete?? or what?

 

Eventually, I think the keyboard will be obsolete, if we humans manage to survive the mess we are making.

 

We will get a shock to get us back on a more sustainable generation of people. Soon. We have to.

 

I can find the F keys very easily. esecially on my thinkpad with out looking.

you do know that thay are arranged in 3 sets of 4 right? oh, by the way I'm Legally blind and can't see the keys anyway as the print is too small... so I've had a ton of practise hitting the function keys with out looking down.

 

You should take him up on his challenge then

 

Well hey. If you are ever in the bay area, california, I'll put you to the test. I'll even buy you a drink if you lose

I often manage to hit a wrong key for the function keys when I'm not looking, despite that I'm in front of the computer 10 - 16 hours a day almost every day. I even sometimes miss Delete with my pinky

and then there's the problem of going back and forth between the lame Apple keyboard, my Goldtouch ergonomic external keyboard and the standard keyboard on my E6400...

at least both Apple and Lenovo put the Fn key in the same weird non-standard place.

 

So YOU are the reason why they put an oversized DEL key on the new keyboards!!!

 

Yep, the big ole DEL key is my fault

 

I do think that the new layout is an improvement over the old one as I find the DEL too tiny on my T61. Why not make "ENTER" bigger as well?