*OFFICIAL* Alienware X Series Owners Lounge and Discussion

But there is a fix @unclewebb has the tool for this if Dell's engineers don't stop you from using it with nasty firmware. And you also have the TCC Offset to handle 100C.


M17R4 getting hot after Updates

As a sidenote. Not so sure Liquid metal will provide better temps with this gen Aw models due use of the new Element 31 thermal paste.

Edit.
A warning about high Power usage is also a nice feature, LOOL

 

I think you misread, but thats the idea for alienware. throttled by temperature.

 

AW give world record overclocker a run for their money, in the opposite direction. underclocker

 

I found a warning in the servicing manual not to use alcohol cleaning pads in the area of the element 31 to clean up because it would dissolve the silicone and spread metal particles around the motherboard...

That said, everyone has been asking them to do something useful for thermal transfer, so they did. I have to wonder if Asus doesn't have a few dead machines out there due to attempting to "machine apply" the stuff.

 

So the user can not repaste. Wow

 

Currently viewing the QNA about the X17 in the Alienware Discord channel. Key takeaways for me are:

According the AW product manager, the X17 would come with a vapor chamber, but the X15 would not. Still not sure if all configurations would have it however.

The Element 31 Thermal Solution would only be for the CPU, and not the GPU. Alienware expects it to last the entire lifespan of the laptop, and it should not require a respasting. I am concerned however with the GPU since it would only be using normal thermal paste and that might dry up eventually requiring a repaste.. which would in turn also require a repaste for the CPU too....

(Like when I had my M17 R1 serviced due to Severe thermal issues, the thermal paste for both my CPU and GPU were dried up, thermal paste was IC Diamond too. Though to be fair.. It was applied back in 2019. )

The M Series would be Dark Side of the Moon whilst the X series would be lunar white.

Another user asked if the DELL Technicians on the field would also be supplied with Element 31 as well as get training on how to apply Liquid Metal on the laptop... No response on that one. O-o No way am I applying Liquid Metal on anything on my own.. I would not even dare open up any laptop this expensive, I would prefer a trained professional to do it.

 

Doubt you will find any trained professionals from Dell

 

Well, to be fair, the Dell Technician that serviced my laptop previously is actually a computer engineer. He did a good job at servicing my laptop, even though he was personally scared of handling Alienwares, with how expensive these are My M17 R1 was actually the second Alienware he serviced, but it turned out just fine. Of course that is only using standard Thermal Paste... (Noctua NT H1), and not Liquid metal. That guy is way more trained and professional at handling these things than I would ever be... that is for sure.

 

It's possible that Dell can afford more qualified engineers in the Philippines. I assume you haven't forgotten the hell you went through to get your laptop sorted - took months, didn't it?

 

Well, which one? Just getting it to the Philippines? That was not Dell's Fault... more of... my country's Customs Bureau being their usual corrupt selves.... And yeah.. labor is cheap here... Sadly... And people already have a hard time finding jobs as it is that most are willing to accept whatever just to have a salary.

If it was for the Mobo, that actually was my own fault... Not Dell's. I thought there was something wrong with the SSD module since it could not take a third SSD, and DELL still sent in a Technician to replace the motherboard and make sure there was nothing wrong with the unit. As it turned out, there was nothing wrong with the unit and I just made a mistake in assuming the laptop could take a third SSD when it could only handle two at a time.

And of course, they still had to ship the parts here since this laptop is not officially available in my country, and yet they still honored the warranty and sorted it out anyways. International warranty is actually quite complicated here with a lot of companies and retailers not supporting warranties for products not bought from them, specifically. This article would shed some light on that one:

https://www.yugatech.com/toys-gadge...9b4c34ee47ed6eb5a8e8156cc1252#comment-1899824

It is BS.. but that is how the Philippines rolls...

All in all, I am quite satisfied with DELL premium support, but of course, your results may vary. I could buy a laptop in the US with a much more powerful specs at a much lower price than what I could and would ever get here in my own country cause the local resellers charge such high premiums since these are.. "luxuries" here...

 

scared to open a machine when its your sole purpose hardly screams "trained professional", sounds like bloke who was lucky enough to have straws despite being afraid to draw any of them to begin with and rolling the dice with your hard earned cash.

Dont get me wrong, Im all ok with faking it until you make it if you have, its just not a trained professional lol

 

Years ago I had an M11x and the motherboard died so they sent a new one and a lady tech much older than myself at the time to do the job. I just left her alone and she came back in and said she was finished, I went, turned it on and everything was ok I thought?
About 30min after she left, I felt a bump under the kitchen table mat, I looked and was a damn screw she had forgot to put in and hid it under there or perhaps she did not notice it went under the mat? Anyway, I ended up tearing it all down again just to find the one missing screw hole.
Now when they come I set with them.

 

tedious, but a healthy policy to have.

To be fair Im not saying these people have ill intent or malicious in nature. Just that the "Certifications" they are offered are all open book exams

 

Well, he is not the only one like that here in my country. Most of the authorized technicians here, even the ones in the retailers for ASUS and MSI are not really thrilled and of course afraid to open up gaming laptops, especially expensive ones, since they would foot the bill should something go wrong. And given the current state of Salaries in my country, (With Minimum wage being only 251 USD MONTHLY), breaking a 3,000 USD (Nearly a year's worth salary for most people here) Gaming laptop would be devastating for them. And of course, a lot of them are undergrads or just took vocational courses to be able to land said jobs, not fully fledged engineers with licenses, unlike the guy who serviced my laptop.

Besides, so far so good, and nothing has gone wrong with it thus far. Same goes for the Technicians who replaced my motherboard back in 2019, have never had any issues with the technicians that DELL has sent. Of course, they were only using standard thermal paste, and not liquid metal. Hence why I am concerned for these upcoming X series especially when it comes to repasting it and other technicial support matters. For me, I do regard them as trained professionals, but they may need some extra training when handling LM with these new X Series laptops. Though of course, your mileage may vary.

I am planning on getting this as my next laptop, but yeah, the underlying issues and the lack of a QHD option is really holding me back a bit on really deciding for this. However, this might be the best option that I would have if I would like the laptop to still get realiable warranty service in my country.

 

I get it, its pricey. Consider this though, there are many companies that care more about the downtime than the cost associated with repair. That means that these certain companies, they dont care about the cost of the machine, they care more about the loss of production as a result of the machine being down, because they make enough money to where that is just a tool. So when you send someone because the machine is still under warranty to replace a part they do not care what it costs, as long as its up and running on schedule. So, to reiterate, they dont care that the broken machine is 6-8,000 USD or that the part could be 1k USD to replace. They care that a tool they purchased is no longer providing a net benefit, and if that is delayed even further due to a simple technician not bringing a correct part or is afraid of messing up a Precision 77XX, thats when the sky looks to be raining fire lol. Then add that scenario and * 10+ units, you want a trained professional and not a subcontractor who is afraid of your laptop.

To me a trained professional can guarantee me that once their services have been rendered, I will be continuing my workflow. Not hoping that when they are done the laptop will turn on.

Its just an issue of nomenclature, sometimes I get stuck on things like that so I apologize for being a stick in the mud lol

 

The level of "certification" is commensurate with the level of "remuneration"....

 

Understandable, we are all entitled to our own thoughts and opinions afterall.
For me, the service provided by the DELL Technicians here is quite satisfactory given the Philippines is not exactly the best country when it comes to these things. Sure the parts delivery was delayed, but that is because of the logistics of getting parts for a laptop that is not even sold in my country here, and once the parts arrived, the technician was scheduled immediately and arrived exactly on time as per my preferred timeframe. The same goes for my first technician visit during the mobo replacement back in 2019, and the technician even had a "trainee" with him to observe how he handles a Mobo replacement of an Alienware Laptop.

And remember, mine is a third world country. For me, this is already above and beyond what other companies here offer. And my nation actually has a LOT of contractuals or Job Order employees.. Admittedly, I am also included in that category despite being a licensed Air Traffic Controller. Pretty much the status quo in my country. And yes, I also get worried and scared at times, but I still do what I am trained to do, kinda like what the Dell Techs that was sent to service laptop have done. So yeah, I regard these guys as trained professionals, and again, your mileage may vary. Completely different environments and standards afterall.

That is with the old laptops however that make use of pretty much standard thermal solutions. What I am worried about is with these X Series... LM is a whole different beast.. and I hope DELL would actually train the folks on the field on how to use their new Element 31....

 

Your needs were met, and that is good. What I am getting at is there is no training. Its a written instruction manual and thats it. The certifications offered are all based on those instruction manuals that are provided whilst you take the exam. If you are a trained professional, you wouldnt need an open book exam. Trained being past tense, as it already has happened.

Our expectations differ due to our environments as they should. Its not as though I am not accounting for that.

 

You would need proper training and hands on experience to become a computer engineer here, and of course, the Technician himself did say that he recieved training and rapid courses from Dell with regards to the servicing of Dell laptops, but he also has prior experience with other laptops before working for Dell. The scope of his training with Dell, I never went into detail since it was only small talk whilst he was working on my laptop.

So again, I still regard him and the other Techs that serviced my laptop previously as trained professionals since they were able to service the laptop properly and during the first technician visit back in 2019, the Technician actually brought a Trainee with him to observe the mobo replacement. Which is quite common here.

Of course, we all have our own opinions and thoughts with regards to these. Personally, I have mostly positive experiences with Dell Technicial support. A far cry from the services provided by other companies here.

Anyways, I would also like to stick mostly to the topic of the X17 here. I just hope that the Field Techs would receive training or be properly oriented on how to apply the Element 31. They may be able to handle normal laptops with normal thermal solutions, but the X17 is a different beast altogether. And that is what is concerning for me, given I am planning on getting this laptop as a replacement for my current M17 R1.

 

You are not a trained professional if the training manual is there with you while you certify. In nearly any other setting its called cheating. I have been offered that exact position here in the states numerous times and they deliberately pitch the job as a means to gain numerous amount of IT certifications. Now if you hire a contractor and you had one that had the answers and one that didn't, but both pass, who are you going to pick to be the "trained professional" for your team?

It's fine if you want to regard them as such, but a rubber stamp is only that. This doesn't mean to say they can't grow beyond what dell expects from them, not at all. In fact I imagine some technicians use it as a means to get the foot in the door and move on as soon as they reasonably can.

This isn't to take from your pleasant experience as you keep bringing them up even though it doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm saying. You bring up the anecdote while I'm commenting on the principle.

 

What country are you from "flying endeavor"?

 

Any notice the price dropped to $3410 on the x17? Looks like it comes only with a 1TB instead of a 2TB but still the offering is cheaper.

 

That is where you are. The competition for jobs here in my country is Incredibly fierce hence why Dell is able to get engineers here to serve as their field technicians. I regard them as professionals because they need to have the right educational background to even be considered for the positions offered by the authorized service centers by Dell here and the training/seminars that Dell would provide in order to get certified. If they could pick up just about anybody here for the job, then maybe my country would not have an unemployment crisis at the moment. So they have to select the right people still, and they have that luxury. So they need to have the right educational background as well as receive and pass the training and courses Dell would provide. Thus for me, they are trained professionals just by definition already. Even most entry level job listings here for Computer Technicians require Bachelors Degrees or at the very least, a vocational course (usually 2 years) with the Computer industry.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Job/phili...echnician-jobs-SRCH_IL.0,11_IN204_KO12,38.htm

I even looked up one of the authorized Dell service centers here, and checked their requirements for a field service engineer job, and yes, the minimum requirements:

• Graduate of a computer or electronics-related degree (BS-CS, BS-ECE, BC-CoE, BS-MIS)
• Preferably with 1-year experience in PC troubleshooting and repair. Must know PC hardware troubleshooting and repair and basic networking concepts (including cabling, configuring, testing, and interconnecting)

That is a 4 year course. Again, the standards may be different in your country and I understand that, but in mine, they are trained professionals. Just so we are clear, in my country, they are trained professionals, in yours, they may not be.

" A trained professional may be an employee of the eligible academic entity or may be a contractor or vendor who meets the requisite training requirements."

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/trained-professional

So for me, they are, for you, they aren't, and that is fine with me. But that is how I essentially describe a trained professional.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now if you would like to continue with this discussion, my DMs are always open. But in this thread, I would prefer to stick with the X17, since I am quite interested in that laptop as a future purchase and as a replacement for my current M17 R1.

 

I am from the Philippines.. Third world nation in South East Asia that is not doing so well at the moment.

 

I noticed that too. Though no option to have the storage configured at this time. They would be releasing more Configurations options by the 15th last I heard. Also, the display also changed from the 120hz UHD to a FHD 360hz one.

Though I would not be buying a new laptop till either during Black Friday or Cyber Monday this year, or after CES next year. Gotta accumulate the funds necessary without having to sell off one of my organs afterall.

 

At least its not Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia, it could be a hell-of-a-lot worse

 

No comment on that one. lol

 

I did not notice the FHD until you mentioned it. I’m wanting either a QHD or UHD of at least 120Hz so that’s a big turn off.

 

Well, there would definitely be a 120hz UHD option. Just have to wait for more configurations. ^^

Me, personally, I am hoping for a high refresh rate QHD display, but so far, no news on that one. That is a huge turn off for me, tbh. Hopefully they would add that option eventually since quite a few people are requesting for it, myself included.

 

You are arguing that Dell provides training, that training is in the form of an open book exam, but alas you did not answer my question. Who are you going to hire? Someone who passes the test without the answer sheet or the one that does?

 

I believe I did, since again, the selection process of the technicians they hire here is already quite stringent as compared to where you are from. They would of course select individuals who are capable of performing the repairs and services they need to maintain operations. I have even linked articles and job postings to support that. I have also linked the very Definition of "Trained Professional" as defined by an external third party website.

And I am arguing that the standards may be different from your region and mine. As I stated, they are stricter here given there are way too many people and not enough jobs to fill, hence why they are able to get Engineers themselves to work under them. And of course, I would get someone who passes the entrance exams, as all companies here do. They would already be getting knowledgeable individuals to do the work (IE, with proper educational backgrounds), and also provide them with additional instructions on how to do these properly for their laptops in particular. (Training and Rapid Courses) That is by definition is already fitting of the "Trained Professional" part at least for me.

Also, again, different standards. For me, the service Dell provides is swift and quite efficient given most other technical services here takes weeks, and even months to fulfill. Even local based ones takes multiple weeks to get themselves sorted out.

https://www.yugatech.com/toys-gadge...9b4c34ee47ed6eb5a8e8156cc1252#comment-1899824

"The least a store can do is receive your item and then refer it to the distributor. This is the reason why sometimes it takes weeks before your product is inspected, repaired, serviced, replaced and returned. Depending on the capacity of the distributor, pick-ups and delivery to that store may only happen once or twice a week."

Things operate differently here, what is Slow for you is fast here. Most retailers here would still have to send the device in a regional service center (sometimes) in another country for it to get serviced, and that might even take weeks or even a month or so before it returns to you. Whereas with Dell, they send the technicians right at your doorstep and they not only do the job properly, but they also do it expeditiously.

 

What's obvious to me is rarely the case as shown by my comment section. Then several months/years later those with the tech, begin to voice their vocal thoughts and concerns about it. Then later, BIG Channel "X" makes some video about it.

It took over 5 years for the big dogs to talk about how the Jaguar Cores in the PS4 were responsible for holding back the system and I was talking about this well before the system came out. When it comes to CPUs, if I sound confident, then trust me.

 

Oh wow, fancy seeing you here, Sir Bob. Love your YT videos btw.

 

Well you always sound confident. So guess I should always trust you.

 

I don't care about your country's standards as I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing the merit. It does not matter where in the world you exist an open book exam is worthless because of the fact its open, just like any other training institution like comptia, Microsoft, Cisco, Linux etc etc exactly none of them are open book because they desire for their training and credentialing to be worth something.

Also the fact that you refuse to answer a simple hypothetical is quite telling, as it gets to the heart of the matter to which I am pointing out. If you want to reiterate that you are trying to point something else out that's fine, but I'm not going to be dragged into defending points I never made.

Answer the simple hypothetical and conclude this conversation as it boils down everything quiete neatly. Refuse and that is it's own tell.

 

I did answer your questions however. I will of course choose the person who passes the exam, and to add to that, someone who actually is capable of performing the work that needs to be done, and fine, not open notes. But that is exactly that, I have already spoken to the Dell Tech Rep that serviced my laptop, and he said, the questionnaires he had to answer after the Dell seminars he attended were NOT open notes. I also added to my statements that the companies in my country chooses more qualified individuals to be their field technicians, since there are way too many people applying for the same jobs. Again, stricter Application process. Too many people applying, not enough jobs to fill. Even when they apply to the job postings for the third party repair center alone, there is no open notes to that.

See why I keep bringing my country's standards. Cause companies here do not have enough job vacancies for the amount of people applying so they have the luxury to not only pay people less based on the qualifications, but also, select people more stringently. Hence why they are able to get actual engineers to do the job. Again, pointing to the job listings alone should give you a clue on the requirements just to apply for these companies. (Bachelors Degrees any computer related course as minimum for most of them).

So yes, they are Trained Professionals, in my books as well as pretty much the definition of the term.

Now, let's go about your definition of Trained Professional.

By that alone, the DELL technicians that serviced my laptop are Trained Professionals. I did not have to worry about whether or not it won't turn on after they were done working on it. In fact in the last repair session I had, we went straight to benchmarking after the technician was done and if there are any other concerns with the system that I might have missed. And sure enough, there are none. Again, I might have missed. Since I was the one who did the troubleshooting and reported my findings to Dell in the first place. It is quite possible since I am NOT trained for this, then I might have missed something. Like in the case in 2019 wherein I made the mistake of informing Dell that I had a broken motherboard, and they sent in a technician (with a trainee) to "fix" it. So again, these guys did nothing wrong, it was my own mistake. They did their jobs well, and without any fault that I could see, and even fulfilled a secondary request of mine by applying thermal solutions that I personally provided to them.

Let's go back in 2019 when I had the motherboard replaced, the Technician Dell sent even brought in a trainee to observe how the motherboard would be replaced, in which I would assume as part of their on-the-job training. Sure, he did not get a hands on, but he did get a first hand look on how it is done.

 

And were done here.

 

Indeed. I hope you bothered to read the rest of the post. Cause even by your definition, these guys are still trained professionals. ^^

 

I can speak for myself, dont need anyone to reinterpret for me.

Now if you want my login info so you can speak for me thats another topic of discussion.

 

Right.. Okay then. So the folks who serviced my laptop, they are not trained professionals? Even with your personal definition of the term.

 

Well you quoted my argument, so Im not really needed here? Really convenient lol

 

Well, you still need to answer that last question. lol

Even with your personal definition of a trained professional, and also knowing that at least the last technician that serviced my laptop had to take the Dell certification exams without it being open notes, that there is a more stringent process with stricter requirements in selecting individuals to serve as field technicians here in my country, and there are even trainees being sent out to observe field repairs at times alongside already certified technicians, do you not regard these people as Trained Professionals?

Since that is pretty much how this all started. So please answer that last question cause if you don't, then that is quite telling.

 

I already had done so, you just didnt include the context where your service technician was afraid of opening your laptop. Does that speak of someone that is trained? Or does that speak of someone inexperienced? If you still consider that to be trained, then perhaps the training is inadequate. In that I suppose you could argue semantics and say training is training regardless of skill(s) (or lack thereof) obtained.

My argument is already laid bare, until actual counter points are provided there isnt much for me to speak on. Even in your last line "pretty much how this all started", which means its not definitively what started this argument. What started the argument was my assertion that training from Dell hardly qualifies as such, you counter by stating things are more difficult in your environment and as such standards should be lower. That is your position, not mine to defend. My problem is that words shouldnt be redefined to suit our arguments, you should just use the appropriate words, there are plenty to choose from.

Now you assume that these Techs are from Dell themselves, which is also highly unlikely as Dell doesnt hire directly for these positions, typically contract or more commonly subcontract via Agency so that they dont have to pay the additional expenses. So I would ask if they are a part of a Dell Partner or Premier program which would be vastly different from the typical candidates but would also grant more credence to the people you come across. They could very well be a part of those programs, but since you hadnt mentioned them I am left to assume otherwise.

 

How on Earth do you know that the relevant technicians in the Philippines do the job properly? Let's assume you were able to stringently assess the quality of the work on your own machine, even though you are not qualified yourself. That's just one data point.

 

As I stated earlier, pretty much everyone is afraid to open up expensive laptops here due to the costs associated with such devices. That does not mean they are not trained and not professional enough to handle such devices. The Dell Tech I spoke to just told me that when I asked him if he was afraid of Alienwares, and he simply responded with, everyone is. Cause one Alienware = a years worth of salary for them. So I could understand their concerns but they are still trained professionals who are capable of doing their jobs properly since again, they have the necessary skillsets to perform such tasks.

And based on my latest experience with them:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...17-owners-lounge.826893/page-41#post-11096304

And as for the training, the seminars and modules they had to attend to be DELL Certified does count towards their training to become Field technicians that could service Dell laptops here.

That last part, I hadn't really gotten deeper into it but the identification tag at least for the last Dell Tech that serviced me, it was for Dell EMC.

If they didn't, then my laptop wouldn't be functioning properly at all, nor even turn on. And of course, in the post I made in the M17 Owners thread, that is already an indication that the work done on my laptop was successful. He opened up the laptop, replaced the heatsink and fans, repasted, and done in less than 45 minutes. That is of course with me interrupting him every now and then to take pictures of the insides of my laptops for my own personal record.

 

The technician who worked on my laptop wasn't afraid to open it, quite the opposite!

There is a lot of fine detail you wouldn't be able to pick up on, given you had no prior experience with that kind of work. The fact that the laptop turned on or even functioned according to your expectations (which were probably fairly low given the nightmare you had gone through), are necessary but not sufficient conditions for the work to be deemed high quality. Strictly speaking.
Of course, you were in a bad situation, and it's good that Dell helped you on that occassion. That said, I hope you agree that it would be better not to have to go through the exercise again

 

Those same fears are just as prevalent here as they are anywhere else. You destroy some C level employee's laptop because you are afraid to break it will get you black listed here just like anywhere else. Ive been opening up laptops for well over a decade now. You are granting excuses to your countryman that arent afforded to anyone else in this field but still want to call them "trained Professionals" despite having direct experience watching a Technician being afraid to service your machine. That good sir, is called a double standard at best and bigotry of low expectations at worst.

Dell EMC doesnt really narrow it down at all, my IT Director is Dell EMC certified and cant repair a laptop to save his life. Why? Because his specific certifications have nothing to do with repair and more to do with Servers and infrastructure. Its like saying that someone is Microsoft certified, without pointing to what it is, its just words without the content.

 

And do understand, my M17 is 3,000 USD laptop when I first got it, and minimum wage here which is what a lot of folks here get paid is only at around 3,000 USD yearly. The price of this one laptop is equal to someone's yearly salary.

Of course, no arguments there. But it is inevitable however given the last time the laptop was serviced or even opened, was back in 2019. The thermal paste have all dried up and there is nothing that could really be done to prevent that. What matters to me is that they actually sent someone who is trained and professional enough to fulfill the work required to get my laptop back up and running. And the Dell Techs who serviced my laptop fulfilled just that.

I have no reason to doubt them nor degrade them given they did the work properly. With regards to my expectations, it actually exceeded them funny enough. It is like I got this system brand new, which I am pleasantly surprised over.

 

Like I said: your expectations were understandably low, therefore they were easily exceeded. I had a somewhat similar experience (expected a total mess), but at the end of the day would rather the laptop didn't require any Dell service, as the work wasn't performed with the same care and diligence I would apply.

 

I could understand why they are scared to open up the laptop of course, but they are still trained and fully capable of servicing the laptop hence why I still entrusted mine to them despite their fears. It is human nature afterall. And I would share that same understanding even for folks in other nations who services laptops who is concerned to open one up but is still trained to do so. I just used my nation as an example, since I am pretty much defending my countrymen here (at least the Dell Techs here) to begin with.

Personally, I also have a touch of concern everytime I sit in front of the radar screen at work since a mistake could mean a possible disaster of two planes colliding midflight. Does that make me any less qualified to do my job? A job that I have been trained for and granted certifications to do? Not really cause I am still doing it.

As with DELL EMC, the Technician who serviced my laptop did so professionally and the results I got were satisfactory. He was certified to service Dell laptops, and he delivered. What more can one ask for? Not be afraid? That is human nature.

And I went back our posts again, and the argument pretty much started right here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...e-and-discussion.835993/page-21#post-11099826

So you pretty much stated that you doubt I or anybody else (since you said you) would be able to find any trained professionals at Dell. And I responded with pretty much my personal experiences with the Dell Technicians in my country who serviced my laptop and that they are trained professionals. And you pretty much based your arguments there on the fact he admitted to being scared of opening a laptop right after.

So it rolled on with me, defending my countrymen from your statements that they are not trained professionals. I tried to counter that with of course, stating the selection process here is much more stringent. In which you brought up the whole certification thing and how you do not regard it as legitimate because it was "open book" at least for you. Again, over here, it is not open book and they had to attend the seminars and answer the questionnaires without a cheat sheet.

You again bring up the fact that they are afraid to open up a laptop.. Again, human nature. Especially if you know what would happen if you screw up, but again, they still did it based on their training.

So you then brought up your personal definition of a trained professional, well, the Dell Techs who serviced my laptop still fall within your definition of what a trained professional should be.

And you again bring up how the Dell certifications are pointless since it is open book, but again, different environment over here. It is not open book, and I also spoke to someone else on the Alienware Discord who is a Dell Certified Technician and he too said his was not open book. He is not Filipino btw, based on his accent, I assume he is British. Again, could be different standards.

You even stated that "Our expectations differ due to our environments as they should. Its not as though I am not accounting for that." So again, take that into account. Based on your definitions, the Dell techs here are in fact, trained professionals, which you initially say they aren't.

And I am not putting words into your mouth, just scroll up or look earlier into the posts and you would see that. I am mostly defending my countrymen based on my posts, whilst you are mostly discrediting them.

You're arguing on the merit, okay, but based on your merit already, the Dell Techs here are indeed, Trained Professionals which is what I have been saying all along. They wouldn't be servicing Dell laptops if they were'nt.