Precision M4400 Owner's Lounge *Part 2*

Good question, Temetka.

For myself., An even more relevant Q. for Starlight5, Hey., consider to fact that a mSATA Drive with the M4400, normally not a concern,
Unless a "system board cooking" QX9300, gets installed on an M4400 Precision without an SSD.

I couldn't choose a modifiable rig like the M4400 without starting with SSD's in both modular and optical Drive spaces. One is okay if your booting from o.s.
My first impression tells me.., Put the mSATA aside for other use and get SSD's for the Primary, and Optical bays...

Reason., Simply heat alone......period.


"The SSD performance gain, quietness, and less weight is irrelevant, in terms of not cooking the system board."
If you approach the idea from that perspective., You'll make it to "first base" loving the gain in performance, etc, as the "extra advantages." Because, in this case, advantages are not the primary reason for their use.

From there you can pursue maxing out the M4400 with a bit more assured confidence, knowing you're not adding more strain to the system board and it's components.
Which BTW, goes 'Way" beyond the M4400's "safe use" guidelines, sporting a QX9300.

Without saying in detail, Max the Ram with matched dual channel DDR2.
4GB for 32bit O.S. and 8GB for 64bitO.S.
The M4400 has 35watt CPU power provision, addressing manufactures cooling threshold rating.
Adding in any CPU higher than 35watts takes monitoring the effects with system tools.,(software) Especially with the 45watt CPU , aka the QX9300, forcing the tipping point and requiring mandatory test solutions for ambient temp comparisons.

This will lead to disabling components that idle in the background with power waiting, etc.
Depending on the intended use of performance. I'm not yet aware of bios config, profiles one chose to select in start up but you might be able to create a boot record for any app. with preferences of available hardware access and settings.

If ya don't use it.. or need it at the time.., why power it?
(when you think about, is almost makes sense if your just net surfing)

This is a cooooool way to handle need cooling from the source.
A 2008 laptop with this kind of staying power means taking measures to optimize all possibilities. this includes profiling your idling hardware.

While always leaving USB...ON.....

You should be able to disable in the bios:
Bluetooth
1394 FireWire
Express card
fingerprint reader
Display port (if you're NOT using it for the app... and choosing 'second display only' in "preferences")
SD readers
eSATA
RJ45 port
etc,
These components when disabled.., all play a part in a staring point with the appropriate performance software to confirm your findings. this never gets documented, but discovered usually the hard way.

There are solutions, to a curtain degree, literally..,lol . And failures, as well....

OOOooo that """"smell """" -- -- --- --- - - - -------- " Don't you smell that smell?"--- ---
from that ol' 'Lynyrd Skynyrd' tune, comes to mind...lol

Unless we're addressing those solutions for having heat.,
Having the M4400 requires 35watt or lower CPU choices. for normal use.
Which still may require a cooling pad, depending on your location, ambient temps, and so on.

Which is why many are here, in regards to the M4400, I'm sure.
I'll paste a post at the bottom of these comments that might enlighten the M4400 newbie like myself, as I type, showing all concerned.
One member's efforts having real results, he states.

My only request is that someone who's good with competent net-searches do me a fave...
I'm looking to find a link, leading to the purchase, or at minimum, last known whereabouts of, the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9200 CPU.
That being said....

It's 2015 Sept. and there's someone that's made good use of a Q9200..,
claiming "It's the sweet spot for his M4400."



--------

Originally posted by Note Book Review Member: Maiklas3000

[QUOTE}
I am trying to rehabilitate my aging M4400 to extend its life. I'm here to share my ideas and get suggestions. It's a P8700 system with Quadro FX 770M, Dell WLAN 1510, WUXGA 2CCFL, Windows 7 64-bit, bios A27.

When I bought it back in February 2010, I immediately added a couple of things I forgot in my order, plus a SSD since it was cheaper than buying it from Dell:

+ backlit keyboard
+ Dell bluetooth card
+ SSD (Intel SSDSA2M080G2GN)
+ Modular bay for the original 7200RPM hard drive

This year I added:

+ 8GB RAM (up from 2GB)
+ CPU undervolting via software (with CPUgenie)
+ Zalman NC2000NT notebook cooler, with cardboard mod
+ Downgraded audio drivers to Windows standard

I live in the North, so I have no air conditioning, so in summer I have overheating problems, since the M4400's cooling system is pathetic. (You know, I almost didn't buy another Dell. I've bought several other Dells in years past, and always cooling has been a major issue.) Undervolting the CPU (to 0.987v at max step, YMMV) made the system run much cooler, but it didn't completely solve the problem.

The Zalman NC2000NT did solve my cooling problem. Here is a chart to summarize:

Code:
Idle Prime95
CPU GPU CPU GPU
book 32 47 60 61
NC2000NT 30 45 58 59
NC2000NTmod 29 45 56 55
The line "book" is for my M4400 propped up in back by a book. The Prime95 temperatures are the maximum reached under stress starting from idle temperature. This was with an ambient temperature of 26C. I was surprised that the cardboard mod improved performance over the NC2000NT alone. The mod also increases noise by about a factor of 4. However, it also decreases the likelihood of the laptop's fan kicking into high, which is another 10 times as loud as the cardboard mod. The temperature reduction may not look impressive, about 4C under load, but you have to remember that the modded NC2000NT achieves its max temp without the help of the laptop's fan, whereas the NC2000NT without the mod or the book-prop both have the laptop's fan at max already before the max temperature. Surprisingly, even the area under the SSD is cool to the touch now (being quite hot before), even though it's getting absolutely no direct airflow from the cooler or even ambient airflow from the room. The palmrest is no longer uncomfortably hot.

The Zalman NC2000NT is giving me the confidence to upgrade the CPU. I have a Q9200 and IC Diamond 7 thermal compound on order. I think in winter I'll even be able to overclock, and then maybe next summer it will be time for a new computer.

Now last, but maybe most important, is something I discovered that may be affecting many of you. The problem was that under heavy loads the system would semi-freeze up as if it were downclocking, and yet the CPU/GPU temps were usually staying under 44/50, so it didn't seem to be from downclocking. I saw in the task manager that the sound driver had high CPU usage in these cases. Another symptom was the sound switching back and forth from headphones to speakers, and becoming painfully loud in the headphones, distorting and cutting out. I found an article that showed how to solve the problem, by uninstalling the Dell sound drivers (with the delete checkbox checked) and letting Windows 7 install its own. That actually didn't work for me the first time, but it did the second time. (The first time I just rebooted and it reinstalled a bad driver with "CODEC" in its name, whereas the second time I disconnected the Internet and then had it search for hardware updates in the device manager.) I also needed to disable the SPDIF device that Windows installed.

Edit: Regarding the M4400's infamous latency problem, I embarrassingly only just now fixed it on mine (though not for a lack of trying.) I used powermizer to turn off the video power saving and that did the trick, even with a hard drive in the modular bay. I am running the latest Intel Rapid Storage software (12.6.0.1033), and it probably helps to use the ancient sound drivers I mentioned above. Now I get no red bars in DPC Latency Checker!

Edit2: I disabled eSATA in the BIOS, and now I get no yellow bars in DPC Latency Checker, only green!

Edit3: Woot, upgraded to Q9200 (from P8700).

Edit4: Woot, overclocked Q9200 to 2.8 GHz (from 2.4 GHz) at stock voltage. This is definitely the sweet spot for my system. Temps stay under 80C under Prime95 run for hours. At 2.9 or 3.0 GHz, I can achieve voltage stability, but at that level the whole laptop slowly heats up and it can lead to a heat-induced BSOD.

Any other suggestions to squeeze some more life from an old M4400?

Dell M4400: Q9200 | 8GB RAM | 80GB X25-M G2 SSD + 60GB V300 SSD | Win7 x64 | WUXGA 2CCFL
Motion Computing LE1700: L7400 | 2GB RAM | 160GB HDD | Win7 x64 | SXGA+ UVA | WWAN | Intel 5300
Maiklas3000, May 18, 2013

 

I have the same USB issue as your saying. I though it may have been caused by a little experiment I toyed with, seeing about producing USB3 from a 2 ported USB3 Express Card...Via the Express Card slot option on theM4400.
Reading reviews about these types of external options has a life of it's own.
Performance claims varied, but my choice was an mid-range to the best reviewed Express Card products in consideration. Knowing full well, not to expect actual USB3 Standards in USB3 bench marks. This due to Express Cards source connection having lower transfer rates specs, etc. However.., The room for decent improvement over USB2.was reported just under USB3 specs. Making an interesting option for systems lacking in on-board USB3.
Still not touching eSATA, mind you. But still a viable approach for under $15.-20 for accessible "Super USB2 attributes.

A significant gain of transfer rares to accommodate my USB3 thumb drive I was planning to boot from.
As eSATA doesn't play that roll with more odd adaptations.., being more of a inconvenience in practical applications.

Sorry.. got carried away...
Long story short.., These Express Cards need USB3 drivers that depend on Dell's farmed out, Renensas Host Diver Package 30202., Requiring an insertion in your normally stable, Dell driver package.., Aka, Family Host Drivers.

Problem being, the USB3 driver is not well received in Family Host Package. Likely due to there being only USB2 hardware on System bios, a power surge tripping bios safety measures, shutting down the driver itself or a blue screen event.

Without getting deeper into the fixes for USB3..., If your running Vista, Win 7, 8, or 8.1., I believe the USB3 driver I.D. is 2939 for 32bit O.S.'s filing system and was my issue.
Causing inconsistencies identical to your own description.
If you have knowledge of these drivers ever being in your own installs or... maybe you didn't install the O.S. you're currently running...
Take a comprehensive look at Device Manager and see if there's any indication that points to Renesas or USB3 drivers ever scripted on the M4400. That includes the PCMCIA. I hope this helped.
There's always a fresh install of the last known diver package for your O.S. if nothing else works

 

All of this makes me think that I will keep my M4400 on Win7. Really, I'm not sure why I would want to upgrade my M4400 or Thinkpad X120e to Win10 from 7. The biggest advantages I've seen to 10 relate to touch screen and high DPI screen performance. Neither of those apply to my older systems. I have Win10 on my M3800 and I prefer it to Win7 on that system (though the stability is actually not quite there yet).

 

Hello , Regnad.
Thanks for chiming in.
Your basically telling me what I want the hear and confirm.
Since you have the 3800, Are you happy with the keyboard layout?

I think I'll just plug in a USB external Keyboard because this one is getting me annoyed with it's so called features.
I've heard others say they love it and others popping a gasket with criminal intent.
Maybe a learning curve or perfect posture but something has to give.

Maybe a tutorial would help on this workstation layout, I hope.

Noticed your established here and have similar questions about how far can this unit be useful.
I believe there still uncharted workarounds an clever methods to be revealed.

It always seems to be based on "a need or desire" to get something extra out of device, connection, or application.
Like "this device is not meant for unintended use.." Well, duh?.

One of the reasons why I got this unit was get HDMI from the Display port.

And do they make an eSATA Thumb drive and why not?....lol

I've got audio gear that would benefit from the FireWire port adding in my dated, M-Audio 410 Interface for 4 channels of 24bit
stereo, for instance.

Or how running a PCIe ribbon out from say your Bluetooth connection allowing for desktop hardware to assist.

There are some cooling solutions that add much better results for heavy apps or games. Not an word of them here.

I'm trying to come up with the reason why should switch to Win 7 64bit while I'm currently using Win 7 32 bit,O.S.?


pros, cons... Anyone?

 

So the M3800 keyboard feels really good. It's actually one of the best I've ever used and that includes good thinkpads like the X220. However, the layout does frustrate me. I miss the Windows menu key. Heck, my M20 was the last Precision I had with that key. When you spell as ... welll... as I do having that context key is a great way to bring up the spell check menu. The M4400 lacked that key but at least it had the old page up/down etc. I really miss those keys. My Thinkpad X120e showed that you don't have to give those up to have a compact keyboard layout. Dell (and others) were going for better looks rather than better usability.

We could also debate about the lack of a numeric keypad. In general I don't miss it but perhaps that is because I've been without for 7 years now. However, I did do some data entry a while back and that really made me miss the thing.

I really get the desire to keep the old system running. As I've said a few times, my M4400 (a top end X9100 CPU with 8gb and 1920x1200 screen - CCFL then replaced with an RGBLED) is, even today a computer I would have nothing against as a daily use system. I upgraded to the M3800 because the opportunity presented. If it hadn't I probably would have tried to find a new battery and an SSD. I think its a bit funny that a system that was offered with full XP support is now getting Win10 upgrades. Anyway, for much of the CAD work I've done the M4400 would still be up to the job... if not ideally. Often my M3800 doesn't feel that much faster (but it does have a LOT more pixels).

The only reasons I hesitate to recommend the M4400 to someone asking for a low buck CAD machine is that DDR2 ram is just not cheap and the lower end versions of the system are definitely slow. While I'm happy with the speed of my top end version, the lower 2GB systems would probably annoy me. It's easier to just suggesting spending a bit more and getting an M4500 or M4600.

 

Good info Ragnad., If your cool with dropping the, Kcin...

Did I say I type like a snail?
Sounds like you're the target customer for the Workstation concept.
I do appreciate the feedback
Your right about SD Ram... It's done with and I was afraid of DDR2 being close to the same fate as SD Ram.
And yes... I happen to watch a YouTube file last night and witnessing a PC repair guy showing
his M4400 receiving a CPU upgraded.
When he finished, He did a quick browse of the Win 10 he's approved by MS to own for various
endorsement and sponsorship deals, I'm sure.
All before the free upgrade started recently.
Anyway., He zipped through his preferences, etc, with seamless comfort and functionality.
I was impressed and comforted about the same surprise as yourself, thinking Wow.
All on a M4400 with Win 10.
Could be a marketing lure to reel in the dinosaurs, ya think? crazier things have been known
to happen...lol. It like you say in first post.
There's not that much that 10 can tantalize me whit for my old school ways.
And most, or even, all the time , what gets offered can take something else away...
I don't thing we humans prefer loss, change when all is well, I'm getting on a perch....

BTW., You may, or may not have noticed, I tend to question things and stretching boundaries,
here and there. Sometimes... It's what I gadda do. Levity.

Anyhow, moving along...

And his CPU was a slower T-class Core 2 Duo Dual CPU than the one I'm running now.
A T9400 2.53 GHz x 2.
Thinking of which...
I just received by mail, a T9900 3.06 GHz X 2 /Corsair DDR2 x 2 set 4GB pc-6400, yada, yada.
With a Thermal Take Cooling pad and a New type cooling Vac for the output vent on the M4400.

These vacuum type fans are claimed to be the solution for laptop systems like the M4400.
"Truly and improvement to heat extraction." And I can believe it to be, except for the longevity.
I'll try using it only when needed.
But for $20 a pop, their replaceable. Especially under a load.
I'll have make some accommodations for the mounting but I think I got one that's going to last
the longest of the few available.
A justifiable purchase for the known heat issues the M4400 has.

Most of my research around this particular model is coming to age with a fairly decent overview.
Special emphasison cooling is the first to be addressed.
Except the contradictory $$$ and up for the Q9200 that I prefer. Maybe you know more about
it's legacy
I haven't had much luck with searches, etc. Having browse for alternates is frustrating.

If and when and I do locate a Q9200, I'm sure it's going to be a $$$ horse pill to swallow.
Also on the hunt for a different m4400 System board of the Nvidia 1700m variety.
Just because..lol

Got run, Ragnad.
get back if you can,

Later

 

..........


ICD - 7... Best thermal paste.. Even over Arctic 5.
ICD - 7...Up to an additional 20% drop in Celsius, under a load. (depending on system.)

With the M4400, as claimed below using IDC 7...
The addition 20% drop, compared to Arctic 5, my ol' favorite, is a cooling reality for the M4400,

that was test was conducted using a
$70 marked down to $56...
Zalman NC2000 NT (BLK) Laptop Cooling Pad with Pure Aluminum Panel (NC2000 NT (BLK))
http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-NC2000...1442093842&sr=1-3&keywords=ZALMAN+cooling+pad

I picked up an alternative for about $18.. A Thermaltake - MASSIVE V20 Notebook Cooler w/ 2000mm L.E.D. Fan.
http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-I...93522&sr=1-1&keywords=thermaltake+massive+v20


The heat vent for M4400 is another opportunity to extract even larger amounts of heat, directly effecting the CPU and the GPU FX770m , known to be the hotter of the alternate M4400 configurations produced.
I think this little guy might be the help
I've been looking for...
Intelligent USB Cooling Fan Cooler Automatic Temperature Control Supports Various Size 15in to 17in Laptop/Notebook
http://www.amazon.com/u-Box-Intelli...sim_147_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=00K9DYWEYHD9FM7SAKDP


The 20% has been documented on other laptops. Range of cooling will always be dependent
on system's cooling a load.

http://www.innovationcooling.com/images/desktop_thermal_compound_comparison.jpg
http://www.innovationcooling.com/images/893multipleplatformcomparisonlarge.jpg
http://www.innovationcooling.com/images/cpudesktopresults.jpg
http://www.innovationcooling.com/

A decent cooling pad with one large central fan is a must for the M4400.
Reason being...
The large fan accommodates Maiklas3000's application of using a taped piece of
cardboard with cutout zones, directly under vent locations under the system.
A forcing of vocalized air suction from target vents.

This post below is on this thread, by Maiklas3000

For quick reference....
......................................
Maiklas3000 Notebook Enthusiast
Reputations: 0
Joined: Feb 8, 2010
Messages:12
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Trophy Points:5

Here is a comparison of two thermal compounds on a quad core (2.4 GHz Q9200) Dell M4400. The ambient temperature was 20C. All tests were done with the modded Zalman NC2000 I described earlier. Prime95 was used for the load tests.


--------------------------------- Idle(C) ----- Load(C)
Thermal Compound ---- CPU/GPU CPU/GPU
-----Cooler Master ---------- 46/55 ------- 99/64
Innovative Cooling ---------- 38/46 ------- 76/60

The results are stunning. Under load, the CPU is 23C cooler with Innovative Cooling Diamond 7 (ICD7) compared to Cooler Master High Performance. And actually that is a vast understatement of the superiority of ICD7, because with Cooler Master's compound the M4400's fans were screaming at full speed at 99C to try to prevent the impending meltdown, whereas with ICD7 the M4400's fans didn't reach max or even the second-to-max speed. (But remember, there's a notebook cooler beneath.) Also, as far as I know, quad cores downclock at 95C, shutdown at 100C, and are only spec'ed to survive to 105C, so the Cooler Master run probably benefited from downclocking and nevertheless got into dangerously hot territory.

Cooler Master High Performance uses the traditional method of spreading a not-too-thick layer evenly over the heat sink, whereas ICD7 uses the blob-in-the-middle-of-the-core technique. Even if I made a mistake in how I applied the Cooler Master thermal compound (and note that I'm experienced), it still points to the superiority of ICD7, as it's hard to mess up putting a (pea-sized) blob in the middle of the core.

The CPU temps are given for the hottest of the four cores, which, as it turns out, was always Core 3. At first I thought maybe it pointed to a flaw in my application technique, but then I realized that the two hottest cores, 2 and 3, are the ones "downstream" on the heatpipe from the first cores, 0 and 1. The coolest core is about 5C cooler, and so ICD7's results would be even more impressive were it not for the bad heat pipe design by Dell.

Innovative Cooling Diamond 7 seems to be an excellent choice for heat-challenged Dell M4400's. I highly recommend it. Most consider it superior to Arctic Silver 5. (See the thread "http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/527204-artic-silver-5-ic-diamond-7-a.html".)

I got my Innovative Cooling Diamond 7 from a UK eBay source for 5.19 pounds plus 2 pounds shipping, about $11 shipped, so price isn't an issue.

Dell M4400: Q9200 | 8GB RAM | 80GB X25-M G2 SSD + 60GB V300 SSD | Win7 x64 | WUXGA 2CCFL
Motion Computing LE1700: L7400 | 2GB RAM | 160GB HDD | Win7 x64 | SXGA+ UVA | WWAN | Intel 5300

 

Agree.

 

My M4400 has the fastest dual core CPU offered (X9100) and the M1700 GPU. I've never had throttling issues. I did do some games. I also did some simulations that lasted around an hour and used the CPU at 100% (both cores). Perhaps it's worth checking the thermal paste but I wouldn't make a big fuss of it.