Dell Precision 7560 & Precision 7760 pre-release discussion

I was implying an external desktopish liquid cooling system with a cooling block on the CPU and GPU connected to a radiator via pipes filled with water. Similar to how Linus Tech Tips cooled the Alienware Area 51M

 

I have wondered what those were for so long....

Even still, the boost to multithreaded applications wouldn't be that much considering that the 8 low power cores aren't hyperthreaded. So in total, a 50% increase in total threads. However, the low power threads will likely be much slower than the high powered threads. Combined with thermal restrictions caused by 24 threads running at once, the performance increase won't be that much. Though in less intensive tasks, there should be a large efficiency improvement.
Imo, the better implementation would be to exclusively use the high power cores for a huge workload while letting the small cores handle background tasks. Using the low power cores for general computing tasks in the background while the high power cores are working would make the computer much, much, much more responsive. This will also probably be the most optimal configuration power wise.
I think the latter will probably be how the architecture will be implemented but I'm usually wrong so who knows ‍♂️ <--- (supposed to be a shrugging emoji)

 

I just ordered a 7760 to replace my 7710. I did not go with the Xeon since I do not think I need ECC RAM. I do not have a Xeon on my 7710 now. My apps do not require it. Any reason I should think about this again and change to a Xeon with ECC? The specs are:

• 7760
• 11th Gen Intel Core Processor i9-11950H (8 Core, 24MB Cache, 2.60GHz to 5.00GHz, 45W, vPro)
• Win 10 Pro
• No Windows Auto pilot
• V Pro Disabled
• 17.3" IPS UHD, 3840x2160, 120Hz, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 100% Adobe,500 Nits, HDR400, IR Cam/Mic,WLAN
• 64 GB, 2 x 32 GB, DDR4, 3200MHz, Non-ECC, SODIMM
• No Additional Hard Drive
• Internal Single Pointing Backlit Keyboard, US English with 10 Key Numeric Keypad
• Palmrest Fingerprint Reader, Smart card Reader, & NFC
• Bottom Cover w/Smart Card slot & SSD Quick Access Door
• Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX210 Wireless Card with Bluetooth 5.2
• 6 Cell 95Whr Long Life Cycle Lithium Ion Polymer Battery (3 Years Warranty)
• NVIDIA RTX A5000 w/16 GB GDDR6
• M.2 2280 2 TB, Gen 4 PCIe x4 NVMe, Solid State Drive
• 5 year Pro Support Plus

Edit:

I read this a Crucial.

https://www.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-memory/ecc-vs-non-ecc

 

If you have doubts about whether to get it, don't get it. It's not worth the money. ECC is for data scientists who can't afford any errors. Keep in mind that there will only be a slight chance of errors if you run the computer at 100% 24/7 for a long, long time.
However, if what you do is critical and you can't afford any errors, get ECC ram and a Xeon.

 

IMHO I have to object. From my POV the price increase for ECC is not very high compared to the rest of the system while the advantage of ECC is defenitely existing.

First from a statistics pov: in your case you go with 64GB RAM ->
64 Gigabytes (GB) = 549,755,532,413 Bits (b)

So if you write the whole memoy once you have 549 * 10^9 single 0 or 1 in it. If you do something that often it will happen that it goes wrong. In 2009 google did some research on DDR1 + DDR2 ( http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~bianca/papers/sigmetrics09.pdf ) and they came to the conclusion that memory errors where much more common as expected. To be fair, nowadays DDR 3 and DDR 4 got basic enhancements to it so that many problems occur less likely, but its like a lotterie: do something very often and it will happen. Also, that we dont see ECC in consumer systems was a pure decision of Intel to milk its corporate customers more for server chips, see: https://www.extremetech.com/computi...intel-for-killing-ecc-ram-in-consumer-systems

Beside that error thing, also security is better with ECC. With ECC most side attacks like e.g.: Row Hammer just don't work as you cant flip bits the way you like since the whole bit region has to fit to a check sum / digit. With tech like Dell Reliable Memory Technology it even goes further, marking whole areas of it then as "not to be used" - making any attacks that way completely impossible.

Beside those 2 points I also got some own experience by accident. My current 7730 was bought to replace my Fujitsu Clesius M740 (fixed) Workstation. Since the workstation was not used for work thereafter (7730 is as fast this this one... 740 is from 2015, 7730 from 2018 - and its faster :O ) I put a GTX into it and use it to play games. Now, the fascinating thing is that since I play on an old worksation with 64GB ECC I cant remember any bluescreen or crash I had when playing games. Games are usually not made for reliability but on the 740 I still cant remember any crash or problem. If I compare this to the typical gamer system I think it has to do with how reliable a workstation is build and I also think the ECC helps here.

 

I have a mixed opinion. I used to say it is not needed. However, my 7530 occasionally BSODs and the error details point towards memory corruption. (This is infrequent, I'd say a few times per year, but it's been persistent for the life of the system. I have tried removing half of the modules to try to identify a bad one but it has happened with both pairs separately.) So... I got a Xeon+ECC for my incoming 7560. As mentioned, the cost difference is not that much and I'll pay it just to have less chance of memory issues. Or, my company will pay it rather, but I think that I will probably get ECC on all future systems.

The chance of random memory bit flips increases as DIMM storage capacity and density goes up. Because of this, all DDR5 modules will have ECC built-in to protect against on-module errors. (You will still need separate ECC support from the CPU with DDR5 to protect against errors in transmission between the DIMMs and the CPU.)

 

I just checked the pricing difference (using the online config) if I change the config and the cost of the Xeon and Windows for Workstation go up, but the 64GB for ECC is less than non ECC.

Going from

64 GB, 2 x 32 GB, DDR4, 3200MHz, ECC, SODIMM

to

64 GB, 2 x 32 GB, DDR4, 3200MHz, Non-ECC, SODIMM

is $188 more. I thought it would be the other way around.

 

Just ordered a 7760 too but w/o ram or hdd since DELL is a rip of for those. However I am now having difficulty finding third-party memory for it - something about it has to be DDR3L memory, low power? the computer will not even post if you use standard DDR SODIMMs... any help is appreciated.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000132438/what-is-ddr3l-memory

 

DDR3L is very old. I think you would want to be looking at DDR4L if anything. The spec sheet doesn't say anything about DDR4L. I think regular DDR4 SO-DIMM modules of the appropriate speed should work fine, but the last few generations of systems have been "picky" about the modules so we won't know which specific ones work until people start experimenting.

 

My original hesitation on the Xeon with ECC was first for the 7560 I ordered by my son going to college. He is a gamer too. I was thinking the Xeon with ECC would have negative impact on games or something else he does. For me on the 7760 (never played games), I was thinking of any negative impact on performance and also any negative to using Windows for Workstation opposed to Win Pro.