*** XMG Apex 15 with Ryzen 3950X / Clevo NH58AF1 Owner's Lounge ***

@Happypath

Oh wow, i did NOT see that coming.
Brilliant. I hope we get the BIOS update from clevo to support the new cpus.
No microcodes, no fun.

 

I figured they’d bow! They don’t want to lose any momentum

 

So is there anyone here with the 2060 115w version? And has anyone tried flashing the refreshed models vBios to the previous models yet? I am using the previous 2060 and am interested in increasing the power limit.

 

Actually for this laptop their keyboard layouts are:

US Internationaal RGB Verlicht Toetsenbord
United Kingdom RGB Verlicht Toetsenbord
Azerty Belgisch RGB Verlicht Toetsenbord
Azerty Frans RGB Verlicht Toetsenbord
Qwertz Duits RGB Verlicht Toetsenbord

Only one of these countries is in the Benelux (Belgium). Dutch keyboard isn't even officially supported...

 

They plan to but still have no idea how at the moment lol.

 

@Meaker@Sager true, but still a lot better than simply "no".

Maybe they could release BIOS versions that only support the newest generation of CPUs and no other ones.
That ought to save space.

 

If the 3rd and 4th can both fit together? Maybe not with apu support. Might be 3 different versions.

God explaining that to users is going to be a nightmare.

 

Still worth it tho imho!
Gonna sell my 3700x and buy a different 8core-cpu with less power-draw.
Then i will finally have the notebook of my dreams

 

The platform itself will still be very similarity would be more any single thread improvements.

 

He means that the platform will be very similar. We may see IPC improvements, but little else.

He could be right there, but i suspect that we will see an improvement in efficiency, too.

 

...but that sentence, if you could call it that, was a disaster. Are you sure he wasn't casting a spell?

All in good fun @Meaker@Sager

 

he he, well, yeah...

we can all get a bit tired sometimes. I imagine meaker needs a good nights sleep

 

The 3800X is quite a bit better than 3700X if you set low voltage and fixed clockspeed:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.re...rdware_numb3rs_reports_his_findings_on_ryzen/ It generally needs 100mv less for same clockspeed compared to 3700X. I bet that a 3800X can run [email protected] which seems to be the lowest voltage floor on ryzen 3k.

 

Thats a really cool find!
Well done!

 

Hi guys,

Just wondeing what kind of temps you guys are getting at idle in all modes / plus gaming / utility.

Ive read you guys have updated bios etc, this machine is of interest to me and im wondering if im getting a loud machine or not!

Im on a XMG PRO 17 for now and its failry quiet and performs well.

 

bruh! why you gotta tempt me? That's legit. should make for closer to 1:45 on battery depending on park settings etc.

 

Cool if that is possible. I would not doubt that the 3800X is a better bin than the 3700X.

 

I would say wait for ryzen 4000.
Sure there can be improvements with a 3800x! Marginal ones.

I would bet that Ryzen 4000 will be a significantly bigger improvement when it comes to efficiency.
Keep your current CPU and sell it off when those launch and the money goes towards your new chosen CPU

 

I blame auto correct should be "similar,"

 

I figured as much

 

If I could ask, is that the reason(the upcoming Ryzen 4000) why you decided to go with 3700 instead of 3900x?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

I simply have no use for more than 8 cores.
I use my notebook for gaming and never encode video or use photoshop, so unless games start supporting that many cores i wouldnt use it.

I would actually rather have a more power-efficient 8 core CPU than a 16 Core CPU.

EDIT: Completely forgot. 16 core systems can be really interesting for people who stream!

...i dont stream tho ; P

 

6 cores 12 threads is enough at the moment for gaming purposes, the 10600K looks decent for that.

 

Truth be told... 4c/8t are still enough for like 90% of Games, but a notebook with around 8c/16t is a lot more future-proof than a 4core-machine, since before long games will require a lot more cores.

Iirc the first actual Gameplay shown for Cyberpunk 2077 was running on a 6core Intel machine a few years back and thats basically the game i got my new desktop for and its also the game i got my new notebook for

EDIT: Looking for the best way to benchmark thermals.
Want to apply the Phobya Nanogrease today and need a proper way to compare temps between my current mastergel and that paste, so i can post the numbers here.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

I usually run the same tests for the same length of time and note the temps at various intervals. Prime95 is an option to load only the CPU, and I use Unigine heaven, valley, and superposition as load tests simulating gaming. I believe 3DMark also has a looping mode that would work for this but I think it is only available in the paid version.

Looking forward to seeing some temperature comparisons for this laptop. I'm currently using Kryonaut - its handling the the 2070 and 3950 nicely but I wouldn't mind dropping temps further. I'm considering going back to LM, though I haven't used it on a new laptop or one with this many expensive components before. A bit apprehensive about using it on top of the IHS too if I'm being honest - a single drip could easily escape and land somewhere difficult to apply nail polish/kapton. I tried conductonaut and CLU on my 8770w before and stuck with CLU since it seemed (slightly) less runny - definitely saw a temperature improvement though, so I am eager to try it here once I work up the nerve.

 

Steady state thermals under a consistent load with a not of ambient temps at least for comparisons.

 

@SamuelL421 Dont use liquid metal! The cooler is made from pure copper!
Copper absorbs Gallium!



That by itself is enough reason, but using liquid metal on anything that isnt constantly horizontal and rarely transported is a bad idea. If just a little bit of that stuff gets loose, which happens, you ruin your system. (Also never use it on a bare die like our rtx 2070 refresh. Instadeath cause its conductive)

@Meaker@Sager Gonna use Asus Realbench, but not today. To tired and just wanna play some Switch. Spent my evening modding my joycons with a real DPAD-shell and brand new sticks. That has priority today.

 

Using on a bare die is fine - I've done this on a few laptops with no issues. The concern with that (or the way people toast their computers, gpus, etc) is by not masking the surrounding area well or at all in some cases. Even with a perfect application you can get a drip outside the edge of your contact area. Based on my past experience with laptops it is absolutely necessary to mask the surrounding area with nail polish and I usually use kapton tape on top of that for good measure. I done this on raw copper before as well with no ill effects, LM (gallium) does leave a permanent stain on copper though - I think it is technically gallium plating the copper surface over time. The contact area on the raw copper supposedly gets tiny pits over time but I haven't seen this to an extent where it is noticeable.

Anyway, I'm definitely not recommending or advocating for anyone to try liquid metal, but it can be used safely in a laptop, just requires additional precautions. My concern is applying it between the IHS and the cooler - I have not done that before in a laptop with socketed CPU.

 

@SamuelL421 Well, its your notebook. You can do with it whatever you want.
I personally wouldn't do it, especially since cleaning and re-applying all the time would get very annoying.
Doesnt take all that long for the gallium to be absorbed by the copper and you would have to clean and re-apply all over.

Eventually i just want to reach a point where everything is exactly the way i want and then "set it and forget it" for at least two years.

 

Not sure if you knew so much about Liquid metal. Read my and bro @Mr. Fox posts about this topic. Also read @Falkentyne s posts. The search feature on top of the forum page is an good start

 

@YardSnake I'm good, but thanks.
I wouldn't even consider it.
Not worth the hassle for me.

 

We should just keep these special secrets to ourselves. The people that would benefit the most from paying attention seldom do. They have their theories, and we have our knowledge and experience. There are many examples.

 

Try undervolting GPU with afterburner and set fixed clock/voltage on the cpu, thst will lower temps a lot

 

It saturates after a time.

 

Only one person seems to have paid attention to the details in Roman's video...

@Prema magic won't help with this problem.


Sucky "cutting edge" benchmark scores...
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (Notebook refresh)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (Notebook refresh)

Last generation CPU and GPU...
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (Notebook)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (Notebook)

Newer is better, how?

 

Perhaps instead of condescension it might help to understand that last gens hardware has had a year or two to tweak and get up to those scores while this generations hardware has had what....2 freaking weeks ???
With any completely new (I'm talking chipset, ram, voltages, bios's, etc) and a very small, at this time, user base the fact you are even considering it to be a fair comparison is F'n ludicrous.

 

A little testy, eh? The information is offered as a public service to those that are willing to listen and observe before tipping the Kool-Aid glass.

The "refreshed" RTX GPUs clock the memory slower for one thing. The Ryzen laptops with desktop CPUs have been crippled at 97.5A. They can just barely resemble Ryzen stock desktop performance using LN2 cooling to stay within that abbreviated envelope. Ludicrous is a fitting and deserving description in that context. Add to it the ludicrous idea that some nitwit braintrust has decided they "can't" ship with the top shelf 2080 or 2080 Super GPUs. Fair? The concept of "fairness" is a card reserved to be played when excuses are necessary. Is it fair to present an idea of something being better when it isn't?

Time ain't gonna fix those problems, bro. Prema Magic can't fix it (per Prema directly). Condescension seems appropriate, as seems to be too frequently the case with the "new and improved" tech garbage. One step forward, two steps backward. We shouldn't bury our heads in the sand and pretend newer is better when it isn't. It's different, and if the goal is to be different instead of better, then maybe it's OK for those that find their greatest joy in being different. They don't need to listen or observe because they're only in it to be different.

 

Vote with your wallet and stop buying Clevo crap, it's as easy as that.
But then you are also not buying a Ryzen laptop, sales tank and no oem will touch AMD based systems besides the 200$ laptops that are giga crippled and only give amd a worse name.

 

Well, here's to hoping that tweaks and tuning, and the passage of time as suggested by @N2ishun, will be enough to make up for firmware gimping and lower specs. Maybe the new generation will match last-gen performance. Miracles can and do happen.

And, if not Clevo crap, then what? Another piece of crap with the same, worse, or different problems? The options aren't necessarily better... just different. Giving money to any of them makes the giver part of the problem. We're all in it together. The sad thing is that none of us should be because it shouldn't be necessary. We (consumers) have allowed them (manufacturers) to get away with it and will continue doing so. There are not enough warriors to combat the present darkness.

 

Over that limit will likely fry the power circuitry in its current form. Really at the moment it's a mid market sort of machine which if you need an easy to move highly threaded machine is perfect. It's not really an overclockers machine. I hope a proper one will be made however.

 

It would be ideal in a P870 chassis with dual 330W or single 780W AC adapter and an SLI-sized vapor chamber for the 2080 Super and CPU vapor chamber. But, that would be more of a workhorse setup. Ryzen CPUs are not noted for their overclocking prowess even on a desktop with proper firmware.

 

I'd love to see a custom single GPU chassis with a vapor chamber and two fin stacks/fans for the single GPU, it would be a bit smaller than the P870 but with a thin bezel 17.3" display still (ditching the 2.5" bays as well). The kind of platform that could take a Titan class GPU in its stride.

 

It’s widely available in China, models provided by the shinelong, terran force, and even as barebone kits with the model number nh55

 

You never know, rtx 6000 Mobile is basically a 2080ti in a laptop, maybe Nvidia would consider putting a 200tdp 3080ti next gen in a laptop? And Clevo would even take it to 250watt?

 

It has been asked for in the past and denied by Nvidia, a Ti card would make up for the loss of SLI IMO.

 

That would be nice. I wouldn't necessarily want it to be smaller, but for dealing with the reduced space for a thin bezel. It would need to be narrower to deal with that reduction. A thin bezel is definitely aesthetically superior to a fat bezel. But, personally, I'd want it to stay thick and heavy with a massive amount of effort focused on cooling and no excuse being given to the size and weight compromises associated with showing a preference to form factor reduction.

They SHOULD do that, but NVIDIA probably won't allow it. I don't like it, but it kind of makes sense when one considers that the P870 with a 2080 already presented a serious challenge to the supremacy of many air-cooled desktops with a single 2080. The only chance a gamer-boy desktop had to put significant distance between itself and the P870 was to employ superior cooling and hardware/firmware mods. The NVIDIOTS seem to want to suppress notebook performance. It's probably embarrassing to their customer base (which are desktop and workstation owners, not laptop owners).

 

There is some light amongst all that darkness..

https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/

unfortunately the specs won't be appealing to most here; obviously this is still an order of magnitude of generations away from being on par with big boy tech... but seems the battle has at least begun; some warriors in the PINE64 team/community for sure.

 

I'm not sure, bro. That seems like total darkness to me, LOL. I guess if you're into things like Chromebooks, smartphones and tablets, that would be pretty nice. It looks like a well-made chassis with lots of features that are missing in products like that today.

I'm not against those things as long as the lines don't get blurred, they do have a place. But, it's PC tech going in 180° the opposite direction of the performance PC enthusiast-level products we're talking about here.

 

The way that is worded is "IF YOU DO AS I SAY" blah blah blah

I'm not willing to listen, as always I will go my own way....and firstly it will be out of this thread.
BTW, I did have a last gen MSI with a 9750 and the older 2060, same drives, same ram as this current Clevo.
Benchmarks be damned, this unit is faster in every conceivable way, more stable, runs cooler, and is an absolute pleasure to use.
I no longer have to fight devices to get them to work, no drivers "get in the way"....
I certainly would never buy another MSI, I had better everything in a 10 year old Toshiba, it at least lasted 9 years.