*** XMG Apex 15 with Ryzen 3950X / Clevo NH58AF1 Owner's Lounge ***

Every machine can be different these days, performance will vary by model due to cooling differences

 

You mean some is more broken than others? Yeah, that’s correct.

 

Some are tuned differently for different parameters.

If you are going for a certain thickness/weight then you will adjust accordingly.

You would consider your ECU broken in your car if it fueled your car to the point a rod breaks through the engine block and makes a unique sculpture in the nearest wall/road.

 

Yeah, its a fix for that... Intel and AMD offer chips with lower TDP. Just put it in so it can perform correctly Put in hardware who can't perform correctly shouldn't be used.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/20/intel_core_i9_performance_in_dell_apple_laptops/

 

It's about flexibility.

A 2070 chip has a wide band of operating frequencies where it achieves high efficiency much like a power supply.

If I want to design the best machine I can I pick the chip that will perform the best at my power target. Often that will be the larger chip at a lower frequency. So a 2070 at 125W will do better than a 2060 at 125W.

This is just engineering.

 

You mean cripple Intel/AMD chips so they can be usable in notebooks? Some editors at tech websites say this has to stop or make proper cooling so it can perform correctly.

See... When the engineers find out that an 150w graphics don’t fit the cooling they will instead add a weaker graphics card. Should be exactly the same for processors. Can’t handle an H Mobile, then put in something weaker. Same if locked Cpu fits better than unlocked processors. But they jus put it in because they can charge more. Sad.

 

Desktop power usage especially on CPUs is rising way faster and outside the realm of notebooks.

It used to be 90W, now it's going to 300W? There is just not the form factor for that but you can take some of that thread pie and still have it back at sane power levels.

I can't think of many people wanting to carry around 300W of cooling with them for their work laptop.

 

When the real world TDP values are over even 200W sustained you know its done, no OEM is going to make a 10cm thick laptop to fit the dual AIO to keep it under 99ºC for a single CB R15 run.
Be realistic..
And yes, there is no good laptop, there never was a good laptop, they all have flaws, Clevo is only semi relevant because people like Prema made their chassis famous, because if there wasn't any unlocked and un-modded BIOS and VBIOS Clevo would have folded after Alienware ditched them and EVGA toyed with ONE model and also ditched them as well..

Its a laptop, there must be a limit somewhere 97Amps at 1v will be around 97Watts, pretty decent, if you are realistic with a lower clocking 16 core, or a higher clocking 8 core CPU it will still deliver amazing performance that wasn't possible 2 years ago, or even 1 year ago at such a low price.

 

The Asus GX700 sure sold millions of units, because everybody loves to have a carry on bag just for the cooler of the laptop

 

I hate that I have to agree that there are no more good laptops left. The last of the Mohicans was the P870 and they killed it. Alienware stopped making good laptops in 2012. (Unless you count the half-hearted effort of the Ranger and Viking with their firmware cancer and gimp-o-rama on power limits, in which case it was 2015... but I don't give credit for half-a-heiny efforts).

That thing was also a joke with its colostomy bag cooler. Plus it was also an example of half-hearted effort with its wimpy BGA CPU and firmware cancer. They didn't even bother to include the CPU in the liquid loop if memory serves me correctly. Stupid. And, the colostomy bag nonsense falls into the same category of ludicrous as expecting that an AGA eGPU is going to make up for all of the mistakes in the product that connects to it. At best, these are nothing more than novelty items. If it's not fully self-contained, it's a lame excuse for a high-performance laptop. If you have to tether it to a desk to realize the benefits from having it, then you may as well buy/build a legit desktop and get something really cheap for a laptop if you need some mobility.

The dullards at Dell have already used the eGPU as an excuse and a crutch for making the "upgradable" Area 51m a one-shot wonder. They offered the eGPU piece of crap as the solution for GPU upgrades... or, Alienkidz can blow another huge wad of cash on an Area 51m R2 if they want a newer GPU. Lame losers and liars... "upgradeable" my hind leg. They changed their mind after they got the money. It could have been, but they decided that screwing their customers was the right approach instead of honoring their word. Now they say "same generation" upgrades only. Well, isn't that convenient? Wonder why they didn't say that before? (Yes, that is a rhetorical question.)

The bottom line for me is good stuff doesn't exist anymore because the people that build and sell laptops have made a conscientious and deliberate decision to not deliver good stuff, and part of the reason for that--a major part, in fact--is that consumers are content with mediocrity. The other reason for it is they make less money when they sell good products that actually are upgradeable. The idea that "people don't upgrade laptops" is only true to those that don't. The OEM/ODM shysters know that they do, so they make it so they can't in order to sell more garbage to the people that believe that "people don't upgrade laptops" (self-fulfilling prophecy).

 

The water block was on the GPU, the heatpipes could move heat from the CPU but it was a half hearted thing.

 

Here is another half hearted Joke for the history-books... http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/page-847#post-10425733

Clevo has been the only choice since 2012/13 due @Prema and LGA laptops. For the records... LGA is no guarantee of something awesome if the notebook manufacturers pester it with BGA graphics as MSI or Dell's fully locked down crippled firmware to stop the Burning-book from ruin your house (fire is no joke).

 

Hey I did docked watercooling properly and it was awesome

Titan X at 1500Mhz Core on a 16x link

 

Very true, always give and take concessions with any laptop. This system is as good as it gets for mobile CPU power, I do wish there were fewer trade-offs everywhere else. Having lived with this for a few weeks, the most glaring issue IMO is the use of a 15" chassis. It unnecessarily adds limitations to everything. Example: There could have been room for another fan, additional heatpipes. I'd like room to add a 3rd m.2 or a 2nd 2.5" SSD. I wish there was one additional USB type A port on any of the sides. Any of these could have been reasonably accomplished in a larger / 17" chassis.

@Mr. Fox - A question about some of your old posts on liquid metal: what sort of foam did you use for making the "dams" around the die? Any good suggestions for where to source it?

 

It would have had the same storage capacity if it were a 17 inch variant, the only real difference would have been a larger screen and potentially slightly cooler overall temperatures due to more surface area of the larger chassis. Now, if they do end up making a higher tier model with an AMD chipset, on par with the X170SM, then that will be something to look forward to.

 

You can use the foam insert from a cheap filter like used in these 120MM fan filters.

 

17 inch models usually slip in a sub too for better speakers

 

Not all ODMs allow this. Not even for their thickest models

 

3700X seemed to match the 3950X in gaming in the benchmarks ran by der8auer, is it safe to assume that the 3900 would perform worse than the 3700X in gaming?

HIDevolution sells the same chassis, but they only have options to buy it with a 3600, 3700x, and a 3900 currently, and 3900 loses to 3700X in single-threaded performance in most benchmarks.

 

If gaming is your main application, none of those CPUs will be the bottleneck over the RTX 2070. Unless you need the thread count for something else, the 3900 will be excessive.

I am a fan of excess... so I would get the 3900

 

It seems they will be releasing with the 3950X soon... as it was added to the product specs recently.

Maybe @Donald@HIDevolution can let us know if this has a timeline for availability in the customizer?

 

If you dont need the higher core count, just stick with the 3700X. Having the 3950X can actually reduce gaming performance. You will also have an easier time tuning the idle speed to fan noise is not an issue.

 

For gaming the 3700X is a great choice as above, if you want to do video editing and the like then the higher core count will come into play.

The XT CPUs could also be interesting.

 

I wonder if this was shared...
The same build is now sold in Australia as METABOX Prime-AI

https://www.metabox.com.au/store/Gaming-Laptops/Prime-Ai-Range/Buy
So the variants globally are XMG Apex15 for Europe / HyperBook NH5zen for POLAND / AfterShock Forge15R Singapore&Malaysia / OriginPC eon-15x for U.S, Canada​

 

Hyperbook ships out of Poland too.

 

Thermalright TFX is better.

 

Does nh55 supports 3300x ?
Is there a 2080 variant planned ?

 

The 3300x will likely work, the 2080 goes beyond the current power budget.

 

Is there a thread for
Clevo NH58AF1
https://www.amazon.com/NH58AF1-Bare...o+NH58AF1&qid=1591117987&s=electronics&sr=1-1 or are there any users who can tell me what to expect when I get one?

 

I've read this entire thread in anticipation for the barebones from rjtech and a 3600 from bestbuy, I'm not sensitive to noise so I can't wait!

 

So far I had not notice any listing of 3300x as option. However, Clevo Germany does offer 1600 as an option to bump €66 off...
https://clevo-computer.com/en/laptops-configurator/processor/mit-amd-ryzen-prozessor/

 

One more importer from N.A. bringing in Clevo NH5# to America

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroc...from-US-1-999-to-over-US-15-000.467696.0.html
https://eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,463,0)NightskyARX15

joining








(obsidian-pc)

(laptoppart4less)

(RjTech)

https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/gm0tun/xmg_apex_15_brands_in_other_regions_worldwide/
​

 

ok ty for answers. Too bad for 2080 tho.
The 2070 v2 in this laptop is 115w tdp right ?
With good undervolt, what is the sustain frequency under load we can expect ?

 

The performance is in the same range as the old 2070. If you need the 2080, I would wait on the X170SM or try to find a P750TM. It sounds like you are fine with less CPU performance if you are looking at the 3300X, although I would atleast get the 3600 if paired with the 2070 honestly.

 

Yes actually, as i play on 4k/60 gsync screen, i don't need this cpu power at all, and i'll always be gpu limited. As for the others laptop you mention, prices are not the same

 

Hi everyone, I tried lowering the SoC power usage today and have some good results.

At stock, my SoC was always consuming 16-17w on idle, according to Hwinfo. That was leading to an idle PPT 30-35w even when the cores were sipping a couple watts.

Today I tried using Ryzen Master to undervolt the SoC. There are not many people online talking about undervolting this. I found one user saying that 0.95v is sufficient. However, the system auto sets it to 1.1v. So I kept lowering my voltage by 0.25v until I got to 0.925v on SoC, which led to crashes. I moved it back to 0.95v and it seems to be running fine.

Here is the setting in Ryzen Master:


Surprisingly, although changing this setting requires a reboot, on further reboots the manual voltage holds. Awesome! But also somewhat concerning - what happens if we undervolt too far? I was able to bump this back up to 0.95v before a crash, but what if Windows wouldn't boot? The BIOS isn't any help! Perhaps someone can advise.

Here are the results. This undervolt has gotten rid of 4-5w on idle:


Every watt helps on this system, so I think that's a great success!

 

You should be able to clear it by pulling the main and backup battery, then hold the power button down for 30 seconds while they are disconnected. It is typically called an EC Reset, but it also wipes any stored values in the SoC.

 

Thanks @win32asmguy

Update: I had a random hard reset after three hours, so I'm bumping up SoC voltage to 0.975v

 

Maybe 1v would be safest.

 

Hi Brian,
Did you go further with your tests or lowering the voltage?
At what SoC voltage your system is stable(without resets)?
Did you succeed lower the power consumption at idle?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

@ChrisHW I've been at 0.975v on SoC since Thursday and haven't had any crashes yet. The SoC is consistently at 12.9w at idle, down from the 16-17w at stock. I have a roughly 26-27w PPT at idle with all of my parking settings, etc. rather than the 30+ at stock.

Does anyone know the 3000 series platform enough to tell me where the extra 10w of the PPT is coming from? For example, Hwinfo is showing me a Core+SoC power of 17w, but my PPT is 27w. I've lowered the Core power via parking/undervolting, and I've lowered the SoC power via undervolting, so I'm happy with the 17w. But where is that extra 10w coming from? Can it be tweaked in any way?

 

@Brian Crawford Sorry if I am too annoying, but were you able with that watts to go under 65 degrees C at idle?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

Sure, totally doable, depending on your clock/voltage/fan settings.

With the fan at 37db (steady, noticeable whirr), and my sweet spot of 3.1ghz / 0.919v, I can idle at 58C.
With the fan at 31db (barely noticeable) and same settings, I have 67C.

Give yourself more fan and you can get it down lower. Just don't expect constant 60's at stock. The first thing that has to go is the stock boost to 1.4v, which sends temps rocketing up fast.

 

Whoever at AMD decided that having voltage jump up and down between 0.9v and 1.4v like a Jack Russell Terrier was a good thing should be fired.

 

Hello all. I have one of these units equipped with a 3900. Bought from pcspecialist.

How ever I'm having issues with PBO settings.

Firstly PPT can't be changed at all secondly something seems to override the tdc and EDC settings. When I start a bench mark they both get set to 50 no matter what I've set and PPT drops to 75w.

Any insight into this behaviour and is there a fix?

For clarity manual overclocking works and I can get 4ghz all core with fairly low temperatures and vcore.

Many thanks

 

@PantherX12 , do you have the Clevo Control Center installed? That was always overriding my PPT settings, so I uninstalled it. I don't know what else could be going on.

4 ghz all core with low temps and vcore?! Please do tell what magic you're up to. What is your vcore, fan settings, max temps, and your thermal compound?

 

Well low is perhaps subjective ha. temperatures dont exceed 80c celcius and fans maybe spin up to 60-70% at that speed.
I repasted with the cheap gunk they they included in my pack and that reduced load temperatures by 10c or so. Have some thermal grizzly to try tomorrow
Vcore of 1.11875 but I've not tuned it yet but that's stable. That gives CPU power of 75w* so only a 10w increase overstock boost clocks. Gives me a 17% improvement in multithreaded tasks.

So temperatures are 1-2c higher than 3.6ghz all core boost with same fan profile.

* excluding SOC wattage. 90w total socket power when combining the two. Just two watts higher than the default 88w PPT.

Gives me 6800 in cinebench r20 multithread. 452 single core.

stock gives me 6200 and 473 respectively.

I don't intend on using it 99% of the time but it's nice to know the laptop its capable of it.

 

80C under what sort of load?

 

Rendering " blender boy"

Got 6924 in cinebench r20 multithread after some voltage optimsation.

 

So a single load on the CPU and not the GPU, not too bad.