*** Official Clevo P870KM1/P870KM1-G/Sager NP9876 Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 3.0 ***

Cool, I'll look into the bitspower IHS. I run really cool right now, barely hit 80c while stress testing, but 100+ degrees outside and generally we have some form of working AC in Afghan so I'm hoping for about 70-80 degrees inside. So anything I can do to keep the CPU and GPUs down as low as I can will just ensure that it is safe there, just weekly cleanings due to the crazy amounts of sand. Once I go through and recheck the VC to ensure that it is flat and making good contact, I'll replace the thermal pads, and shim if it's needed then replace the IHS with the bitspower and then I'm gonna work on modding the laptop cooler. Then hopefully I will get the temps as low as I can so I can game when I'm not working there.

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Obviously none of us bought this model laptop for it's battery life, but what are some tips/tricks some of you have done to improve battery life? Anyone pushing 3+ hours?

 

1+ Hours maybe (?)

Try setting the CPU at 5% from power plan settings, turn the luminosity at absolutely minimum, keep as many white images as possible on that display, don't run anything in the background and write in TXT instead of word.

I don't think it will reach 2 Hours of battery life even like this though...

 

3+ will almost be impossible, 2 just maybe depending on whats running.

 

I was basing my initial question off of this article, but it's starting to seem like this is a bit of a stretch...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10795...phobos-8716-laptop-review-dtr-with-gtx-1080/6

 

You mean a 6 core CPU?

 

All of which has little impact on gaming.

 

It does have an impact, but only on titles that were programmed to leverage the additional threads. We see thread scaling in games like GTA 5 and Battlefield to be pretty significant in terms of minimum frames, but only if you are not trading clock speeds to obtain them. That's going to be the biggest problem in a mobile chassis. You are certainly going to have to compromise on clock speeds if you want more cores, and that is where the performance benefits fall off. With the vast majority of titles being bound by single thread (and Amdahl's law still applying to those that can leverage multiple threads) it's no secret that faster cores are king. If we can get say, 6 cores and still have them hit 4.5-4.7ghz, it would be pretty great all around, but the thermal solution required to cool something like that in a mobile chassis simply doesn't exist yet, unless you want to be tethered to a desk-bound water cooler like those larger ASUS laptops.

If people want better gaming performance, they need to stick to the work that @Prema and @Mr. Fox are pushing, which is overclocked CPU's and memory. Memory's impact on gaming is often overlooked, but it does exist. Even more so when your IO Bound by your CPU (something that happens a ton on mobile platforms). We've seen significant differences in minimum framerates just by going from 2133 to 2800. Pushing even further is only icing on the cake at that point. Focus on making unlocked BIOS's the norm, and then worry about more cores on the mobile platform later.

 

Will this laptop be able to upgrade to volta?

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Should be possible, but you never know today. Volta cards will use GDDR5X not HBM2, so there is no need for a new significant change in card design. Or what? @Meaker@Sager All of us remember very well that Clevo quickly changed the graphics card design after the DM1 models. It was very urgent!! @TBoneSan @Mr. Fox

 

Yes. Having new GPU form factors was critically important... for OEM/ODMs to block upgrades and sell more laptops. Like BGA only serviceable in the event of a GPU failure instead of being a disposable piece of trash.

The 1080 in the Tornado F5/16L-G-1080 is proof that it was not necessary. There is hardly any difference in performance between it and the gigantic Clevo 1080 with the right firmware in place. With stock firmware the differences are artificial smoke and mirrors nonsense. And, it requires no external power input. Pretty much everything every OEM/ODM does now is a money-generating scam fabricated for the sole purpose to sell new notebooks and interfere with upgrades.

 

The saddest part is that the build quality of the DM1 feels way more sturdier than the DM3. Straight from the chasis to the keyboard.

 

I haven't noticed that. In fact, I could not tell any difference at all. They seem exactly the same to me in terms of build quality, but I have never had both available at once to compare as you do so I will take your word for it as a trusted source.

Now, KM1 is a somewhat different story. It has at least one easily recognizable downgrade, which is the dumbed-down vapor chamber. It weighs less, has smaller radiators, fewer heat pipes, fans that do not fit the radiators (massive air gap that kills static pressure capacity) and the GPUs run much hotter.

 

Jesus Christ.

I type on the Dm1 all day, at work chatting and stuff on the side and writing a bit of code. And the keyboard even after almost a year and a half is still nice and stiff/solid.
The DM3 keyboard however has been replaced once and still feels squishy. HIDE tried their best to find one that was nice and stiff, but couldn't. So i guess that how they are manufactured now.
Same with the body, the moment i lift up the DM1 i FEEL that it is solid. The DM3 just feels weird, specially the wrist rest.

btw. is that a test unit to help out @Prema?

 

No, but we are looking into that as a possibility. Hopefully soon. I was able to get my hands on one for a brief preview for a couple of weeks. It is still the best the industry has to offer, but (sadly) inferior to its predecessor. I just wonder what kind of nonsense 2018 will bring. Should be a real treat to see what gets screwed up next.

 

Yeah, pretty much my last Clevo. Handing over the Dm1 to my sister / mum and keeping the DM3.

 

Yeah, unless there are some massive changes to the direction things are headed, the DM3 is my last high performance laptop. I'm not going to be spending lots of money on compromised trash. I can spend very little money and have that, so there's no point. It will mean having a sub-$500 turdbook for web surfing and email and having high performance fun with a desktop. But, I will enjoy the mighty DM3 for as long as it lasts. I'm not rushing to spend money on a desktop either, because I honestly don't like what I am seeing there for some of the same reasons. Pascal desktop GPUs are a stinking festering firmware abortion just like the mobile crap is. If the nonsense keeps up, I may just not spend money on anything at all and stop gaming and benching completely. I don't appreciate being screwed.

 

I would wait on the desktop processor market to settle down a bit. But at least for Desktop GPU's we have fully unlocked BIOS's (1080Ti/1080 XOC) and can easily hardware mod the cards + water cool them with ease.

 

True. But, I have a feeling they're going to be next on the list of things to ruin. Shouldn't have to jump through any hoops on anything... ever. Firmware should be easily moddable and flashable on all GPUs, including 1060, 1070 and 1080. Shouldn't have to step up to a Ti or XOC to enjoy basic property ownership rights. I would still want the better GPUs anyway. I don't care about mainstream gamer-boy value crap, but it's the principle that is unacceptable. There has to come a point when everyone says enough to this baloney and stop funding the moral delinquency of retarded OEM/ODM shysters.

 

XOC is an is an unlocked vBIOS for Xtreme Over Clocking , mainly meant for ASUS Strix GPU's. But can be cross flashed onto a lot of others. But i do understand your point. Things are just going to get way more locked down.

 

Spoiler: GeForce 365. You can use it for as long as you want to at the incredibly low price of $19.95 per month for the base hardware configuration. You can upgrade firmware online with GeForce Live Update to get the $29.95/mo Elite Gamer edition or the $49.95/mo Ti/Extreme OC edition. If you downgrade firmware to save money when you are done benching there is a $9.95 service fee. When you stop paying, the GPU finds out when it phones home, then only functions in 2D performance mode. If you pre-order you get a free season pass for Candy Crush Pro and Angry Birds Starter Edition (with in-app purchase offers).

 

You can probably get a small discount on the whole package if you rent a game. Or for yooo, Benchmark software But remember, Nvidia will require you have to pay a bit extra (insurance) if you run benchmarks. Remember to disconnect from the Internet, or you can risk a fine if you don't opt for this bench insurance. Remember forced Telemetry

 

So would the 1070 be better suited for the dumbed down vapor chamber? Did you see if that gap is on others too? I was only waiting to pull the trigger after I had decided if I wanted a 1080 or not. But now you've given me doubts.

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I am wondering about any Linux experience with the P870KM1-G.

I am planning to get a KM1 with NVMe drives and 64GB RAM, single 1080 GPU and 4k display. I will not be using it for gaming. Will use 1-2 external 4k monitors and external kbd most of the time, except for biz trips. My plan is to use something like Ubuntu gnome workstation, with QEMU/KVM for virtual machines to run Win7 and Mac OSX when needed.

Has anyone done something like this? How is the linux driver support for these devices?

Also thinking to use Optane drive to front mechanical SATA drives, but waiting for more reviews and clear indication of BIOS support for this.

-jem

 

Sadly as with most people in this world their only interest was to help themselves.

Spoiler

 

Sorry what? You did not want Clevo to offer a 1080 option at all?

All 1080s have changed the design in such a way it had no chance of fitting a standard MXM layout including heatsink position.

 

Sorry to be a noob. I'm reading through this thread and trying to get up to speed on many issues.

For the Prema bios, does the reseller actually remotely connect to my machine and install updates?

Given that I will be running LInux and not Windows, is this possible? Will I be locked out of bios updates?

-jem

 

You could simply create a Windows 10 x64 PE USB environment for them to remote deploy updates...

 

Can the new vapor chamber adequately cool a single gtx 1080? Or should I save my money and get the regular cooler?

how much modding is needed to fix the gap from the fans to the grill so it has proper static pressure? Is that gap how they all are?

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Also does anyone have any experience with HIDe's 100$ buy in to get a panel with less backlight bleed than most. Like top 20% of panels with the least backlight bleed? Worth it for the 1440p120 hz screen? How about 50$ screen calibration? Should I just save the 50$ and buy my own screen calibrator?

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Sorry I meant for these to be one post.

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the feel you realize the next intel 6c laptop wont be out until possibly Q2 or Q3 2018..

 

Or maybe a little earlier?
Intel’s Coffee Lake-S Engineering Samples Spotted On SiSoft Sandra Database – 6 Core / 12 Thread

 

naw intel pulled back, its over lol. wait game for next laptop, good to go desktop now.

 

It's all speculation at the moment, though intel are facing pressure on the desktop side. Less on the mobile side.

 

Hi all! This is my first post, but I have been looking at Clevo laptops for close to 10 months now.

I have been thinking of a P870-KM1, talked with Donald @ HIDEvolution a couple of times through e-mail, but I am still really concerned. I don't have money to get something else if a P870-KM1 turns out to be a mistake, but on the other hand I am desperate: I am still running a self-built desktop dual-core 3.0 GHz that is over 10 years old, with a 56k dialup modem and Ethernet plug (I don't have Ethernet, however). I'm even still stuck running Windows XP...

All this talk of (possible) heating problems, especially with the 7700K CPU and 1080 GPU has me very concerned. I don't want to overclock or anything, am going to use ONE 1080 GPU, and will be sitting at a desk/table. I just want to buy something that will WORK, preferably forever (or at least 5-10 years). So:

1. Like SirSaltALot, I am wondering if cooling is something to worry about. I want to get my P870-KM1 from HIDEvolution, delidded 7700K CPU, and vapor chamber on the 1080 GPU. Will I be fine after that, or is this going to be an ongoing problem the whole time I have this thing? I *really* hate lugging my desktop all over creation just to get to an Ethernet plug at family's/friend's houses, and a laptop with Wi-Fi could theoretically save me a bundle on necessary Internet connection. I don't do online gaming or anything but e-mail and downloads. Not worth paying tons of money each month when I could just run to McDonald's like all the other laptop users in my family do.

2. I want to be absolutely clear on the answers Prema just gave a few pages ago, when asked if his BIOS could be flashed remotely by a seller. I am not going to buy a P870-KM1 without the Prema BIOS, so I would like a clear answer: if I get a P870-KM1 *before* the BIOS is released, do I have to physically send the laptop back to HIDEvolution, or do they install it over the Internet for me? I don't want to try it myself; like I said, I CANNOT afford to screw this purchase up. I couldn't even afford a do-nothing $500 turdbook after this, not for another year (or a better job).

3. I have been hovering around the P870-KM1 for months, wondering about the heat issue and waiting for the Prema BIOS. Last I heard, the BIOS was going to be out mid-June at latest. More concerning, I noticed about half an hour ago that Prema has locked off his website to Wordpress (whatever that is) members only. I do light/moderate programming myself, and I understand the "it's done when it's done". But I can't even find status updates anywhere! Donald said months ago that HIDEvolution had a "test" version for the KM1, so... is everything fine, but taking longer than expected? Or is there some horrible problem Prema has run into? What?

Heat concerns and the BIOS are the only things standing between me and literally everything released on computers since 2012.

Many, MANY thanks to you all, I really appreciate anything and everything. I'm sure Phoenix, Papusan, D2, Mr. Fox, Donald, Prema, and all the other people here have patiently gone over "New Owner Concerns" until they're blue in the face, and I hate to add more questions from a laptop n00b. I just can't find a straight answer to my specific concerns after 10 months, 300+ pages of different posts on different forums, and (trying to) comprehend small text in benchmarking screenshots. And one user's heat issues may not be a general issue: I just can't tell from posts if it's a one-off problem, or endemic to overclockers/dual 1080 SLI, or something EVERYONE needs to fear with the KM1.

Whew. Okay, I think that's it.

 

From my understanding they can and will remotely log in and flash your bios for you when prema finishes it. As to your other question I am waiting for an answer too.

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You're in very good hands with @Donald@HIDevolution And P870-KM1 is the best laptop you can get today. But expect all laptops and from all brands... Can sometimes have problems. None of us can give you 110% guarantee you don't run into problems. But run and buy!! And opt for the longest warranty you can afford. P870-KM1 with single 1080 + the Grid heatsink will have very decent nice temp. But don't expect any thermal paste will live forever. Expect re-paste after some time due you shall have your machine a long time (many years as you said). De-lidded processor should of course be on your list. Good luck. Run and buy.

 

The temps we are getting for the EVOC P870KM1 with a single nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 w/ Vapor Chamber heat sink set, and delidded, undervolted and overclocked to 4.7GHz Intel® Core™ i7-7700K -
CPU Temps Minimum 45c Maximum 88c Average 78c
GPU Temps Minimum 43c Maximum 57c-77c Average 57c - The highest GPU max temps (77c) are after gaming. the lowest Max number (57c) is after running benchmarks.

If you want lower temps, you can request that we just delid and undervolt, without overclocking. Just put that request in the special requests box just under where you select Donald S as the person that helped you. In that same box, put NBR = Andrew Williams, and I will apply your Notebookreview discount.

Once the Prema BIOS is released, we can indeed remote into your EVOC P870KM1 and flash it remotely. You do not have to send it back to get the Prema BIOS flashed.

The issue with the delay in the release of the Prema BIOS has nothing to do with the EVOC P870KM1 itself. @Prema had to replace some equipment he uses to create the BIOS, and that is the only reason for the delay.
.

 

Echoing Papu's words, there is very little out there you can get that would even be comparable to P870-KM1, and all the other laptops that we would recommend are Clevo as well since they're the only ones who haven't forsaken us and still include normal CPUs.

I really wish I knew you would get such good temps on the CPU before.

Also thank you for explaining things!

 

@Georgel it's not too late for you. Just delid that sucker and thank everyone that have been telling you to do it for the past year later

 

@Phoenix

after not being used for 3 days my clevo keyboard "S" key stopped working

owned this thing for 2 months and with minimal use, always teamviewer and that's only brief OC sessions...

 

And I've used my Clevo P870 every day since Feb last year. Up to 24 hours a day And everything works as new. Same with my other Clevo who is now 7 years old.

 

Clevo........NEVER again
Clevo makes the worst laptop keyboard EVER!

 

Phoenix typing on his SteelSeries Keyboard without even looking and making 0 mistakes on his sturdy keys >>>>>

 

How long time does it take before the BGA can turn your typing into text?

 

instant

 

Oh yes, I have seen and heard very good things about Mr. Donald from every other user who has had experience with him. As for having problems... everything does wear out, and I understand that. I was just worried about any possibility of unreasonable, crippling, chronic problems. Both my parents and my two sisters all have their own laptops, but one of my sisters got a Lenovo or HP back in 2009, and I swear it was about 3 months before she could even USE the stupid thing. Screen died, battery went out after a few weeks, then keys *fell off* the bottom-left of her keyboard. There are [obvious] differences between reliable equipment that gets old and an outright lemon from the get-go. Incidentally, that's why I never thought of a laptop as a serious proposition until now.

Oh. My.
Can't. Resist.
Must. BOOGIE!

Ok, so a squirrel just fell off a utility pole outside (catatonic shock from my dance "moves", or it touched the wire, I don't know), but seriously: you have made me *very* happy. And very relieved! Thank you so, SO much, Mr. Donald, for the help, info, reassurance, and heads up on how to make special requests and even a discount! May your day be as good as you have made mine, sir!

And thanks to SirSaltsALot for his reply, and +1 to Georgel's thanks for explaining things!

 

As I said in the reply to you... There are Monday products from all brands. No one can give you 110% guarantee that your purchase don't end up like this. But a good product +a good reseller is a good start.

But, as you know... Msi, Acer, Razer, Alienware, Aorus, Gigabyte and similar brands is not an option. You could buy Steelseries keyboard or switch back to desktops. As you can see below, this should been the proper use of Jokebook's with welded on hardware. For cooking

 

Yeah, but you can actually roast marshmallows with those infamous Samsung phones* when they ignite... if you're going to get a really expensive heater, you may as well have the FIREworks to go with it!

*Disposable acquaintance or someone you hate recommended for use as shield when phone inevitably explodes. Do not dispose of dangerous items except in places whose inhabitants cannot come after you later. Subject to restrictions in darn near everywhere. Fees for medical attention may apply.