*** Official Clevo P870KM1/P870KM1-G/Sager NP9876 Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 3.0 ***

i think u need to calm down, im not trolling you, you are trolling yourself. all those bolded text, let me refresh your mind so you dont have to scroll up and see what i typed cause of course you didn't read what i mentioned..

- no way of test it: sure software is there 60 days free trial full version feature this n that. "if i donno how it treats data as cache, then its meaningless, are you telling me it shows you which data from which files being cached how many times, before its removed, how long it stays as cache etc?

- did i ever mention i will use optane SSD as boot drive? yes i did. did i mention I will use optane 32GB m.2 thats been reviewed as boot drive? no i did not. pls dont put words in my mouth lol. who would want 32gb to store window and can't store games or other software thats beyond silly.

- read my last paragraph

optane via IRST u mean?, that Q/A and when you said over and over, explains nothing what im after lol. block level and below window file system level or what not, it matters not to me, they are all the same. if i do not know how they treat data as cache then theres no point. i'll do the way i know 100% can speed up the system, ramdisk with SSD which will soon become ramdisk with optane, as optane being the boot drive. and from optane, w/e its being cached will be faster than your primo + ssd pair up, it just make sense lol.

optane as a boot drive, PCPER optane m.2 and TWEAKTOWN optane 32gb m.2 review... they are created and meant to be used as cache for its small size purpose but u can simply use it as a storage device and install windows on it. though having just 32gb with window is dum, i want 128gb.

 

You honestly think Optane is out-performing my ram? You have no idea, lol. I just showed you my benchmarks, and my raw bandwidth and lower latency would beg to differ. Your entire logic is "If I don't understand it, then it's not real". Let's take a look at your sources though. https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Stora...Lightning/Installation-Timed-Tests-and-Observ

Oh look, they mentioned SRT, exactly as I did.

They also mentioned that it learns based entirely on your usage patterns, exactly what Primocache does. Your entire point is, since you don't know how Primocache does it's caching, there is no point. The irony is, you don't know how Optane does it's caching either, and yet you treat it as the second coming of the lord himself. They are just as ambiguous. We also don't know if it's going to be getting it's PCIe lanes from the CPU (thus, crippling the GPU to x8 configuration) or the DMI bus (at the mercy of a bandwidth hard-limit that coincides with all other devices on the PCH). That's yet another problem that ram (and to an extent, traditional SSD's) doesn't have to deal with. If you are looking for some reading materials to better educate yourself on how storage works (both in the sense of cache, and data structure in general) I can provide some really good sources for information. Otherwise, you are going to be putting yourself in this endless cycle of denying what you do not understand. That's not the best way to learn going forward.

 

man whats wrong with you, when did i say optane will out perform ram? god damn it all

 

I also like how you edited that post.

 

no dude. Last edited: 48 minutes ago, your post quoted my post that you claimed i edited, was 43 mins ago, i replied to that post of yours that posted 43 mins ago was after half hour, i think your logic and theory is a bit off, and that explains why i can't explain to you so you would understand it, but i'll let it go for now.

 

Yes, I quoted your original post, and you edited your post while I was mid-reply. If only you would have provided the answers to my questions in the first place, instead of going back to do it later. Either way, it seems you and I agree on something. You can't explain something for me to understand it, because you yourself do not understand it. You've stated this in the past, and I see that it's true now. Once you study up on how this works, we can continue this discussion.

 

no brother, i think you should calm down. if you are so insisted i edited, then you should read all the way back to earlier posts and in many of them i would have mentioned and even linked you to pcper, that clearly shows optane is between ram/ramdisk and traditional nand SSDs, it make little sense for me to edit to contradict myself.

i think you should simply calm and think it through.. if my reply making you too upset simply just ignore me thats fine lol. i have had this conversation with you for a long time and i cant seem to make you understand how i see it. now you are being direct and started to put words in my mouth and accuse me of things ive not done.

also, if you look closely at what ive said, what you quoted which you claimed i "edited my post", u will actually see what im trying to say. re read the bolded part and just before the bolded part.

 

I can assure you that I am not angry. I've only been trying to explain something to you, that you seem incapable of understanding. I've yet to figure out exactly why that is, but it seems it cannot be helped. At this point, we are left to agree to disagree, or simply wait until one of us is proven wrong in the future. I'll stand by my assertion that Optane is a gimmick, and does nothing more than what we've been able to do with caching software for years, and you can believe that it will be a superior alternative to caching/SSD's for boot drives. That being said, I've never put words in your mouth. I've quoted you each time to show what you've said, and in some cases, highlighted the exact words you've used. If you feel I've taken your words out of context, that's another case entirely, but nowhere did I put words in your mouth.

 

also, if you look closely at what ive said, what you quoted which you claimed i "edited my post", u will actually see what im trying to say. re read the bolded part and just before the bolded part.

 

I did read your post, specifically this part: "- no way of test it: sure software is there 60 days free trial full version feature this n that. " if i donno how it treats data as cache, then its meaningless, are you telling me it shows you which data from which files being cached how many times, before its removed, how long it stays as cache etc?"

This begs the question: Why do you automatically believe in Optane if you don't know how Optane caches your files? It's just as ambiguous. It does not tell you exactly which files are being cached. Now, I get what you are saying, and I'll be true to my word. I am wrong, Optane (even in it's current form) can apparently be used as a boot drive. You are also correct in saying that a 32gb drive is silly, for the reasons you mentioned earlier. I just don't see how you expect Optane to be the ideal solution for this. Even if we see affordable consumer 3DXP Optane drives, aside from their low-latency, low QP performance, they are fundamentally no different from the current NVMe drives we have. I can already get higher bandwidth, lower latency cache with my ram, and can use said ram to not only speed up my SSD, but drastically improve it's lifespan with write-deferring. With how Optane is structured, it doesn't support write consolidation, and therefore cannot offer the same boons that I am interested in, when talking about caching.

This is why I see Optane as pointless. It's basically a Kaby Lake only "SSD" that is slightly superior to current SSD's (if it ever improves it's capacity) but inferior to ram in nearly every regard (aside from it being non-volatile, ram's #1 drawback for caching).

 

What the hell is happening here.

 

A giant flexing match between two people over a simple misunderstanding, but gigantic ego's from both sides derailed an entire thread about something that had absolutely nothing to do with anything. Basically, I am making a terrible first impression, lol.

 

Only 5 pages of the thread

 

perhaps you're picking the wrong place to read, or maybe im just bad at explaining things. either way, i'll give up trying to convince u now and i'll stick to my own thought. it was an enjoyable conversation talking about technologies.

rofl

 

To be frank your first impression was being a cartoon version of hulk hogan going "SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM" to me.

 

Macho Man Randy Savage, lol.

So, I'll be getting ready to order the P870KM today, and I have a few last minute tweaks to my configuration that I need to work out. Mostly concerning the wifi modules. Is Killer nic's still considered terrible? I know on some of the older desktop motherboards, they were avoided like the plague due to awful software and constant connection loss. Was considering spending $20 to get the Intel version. Though, if memory serves me correctly, there was a way to use a standalone Intel driver on those very nic's. Anyone know whether or not that's still possible?

 

I have the Killer NIC and it's fine. Just load the driver manually and skip the bloat software as you mentioned.
Look at the first post below for driver links and instructions. Just make sure you have them ready on a USB prior because you can't use Ethernet PnP (like you can with Intel) to go download them once your on your machine.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-p870dm2-3-drivers-mirror.795059/

 

Thanks for the info.

I see in that signature image of yours that you have your SO-DIMM's running at 3200mhz. Is that only possible with the Premamod bios? Or does the stock Clevo bios support any memory overclocking of any kind? Part of the reason why I've waited so long on buying this laptop, is because memory overclocking is a must have for me. I understand that it might be a while before Premamod hit's these laptops with what I guess would be considered a "stable release", so if I get one of these laptops now, I would at least like control over the primary timings and frequencies.

 

I know it isn't hulk hogan, but it's more the impression I get

I can't recommend the killer NIC. When you get a working one it's fantastic, easily. But it's easily possible you'll get one that will disconnect under 20Mb/s or higher load, and it's not really possible to fix without replacing it. That's just my stance on it.

You can possibly get 3000MHz working with the stock firmware, but it'll be difficult and likely not very stable. You can't get 3200MHz working without Prema I think.

 

Agreed. I've had three laptops now that use a Killer NIC and all three of them have had issues. Sometimes its the driver, sometimes its the card disabling and re-enabling itself under high load, sometimes its random disconnections from my rock-solid wifi even though everything else is connected to it just fine.

Ironically the driver that I have found works the best and gives me the least amount of issues is the basic one that comes with Windows 10. Only problem is....it doesn't work well with Creators Update and you end up with the random disconnections again.

Seriously just go with the Intel card and you won't risk having to deal with any of those things. Most of killers "benefits" are nothing more than marketing, and even when the card works perfectly it doesn't perform all that much better, except in very specific circumstances, than the competition.

 

Interesting you have all had grief with the Kiler NIC. I've had 2 in the past but and I've had no complaints using a driver. But the caveat in my experience may be I use Ethernet 95% of the time.

 

It's not marketing, but "quality of service" settings. You can set up an intel card the same way. The killer cards DO have better basic hardware, slightly. But I won't recommend crapshoots, not sorry. Killer has had literally 5 years for me to determine they are a good pick. In an entire five years, they have yet to produce a single product that ticks BOTH of these checkmarks:
- Works problem-free with simply installing the software
- Works problem-free with zero hardware issues

Some people get lucky, some people are fine, but enough people have glaring problems that legitimately cannot be fixed without a new NIC that I won't recommend them. It doesn't matter if I get one and it's perfect or not, etc. It's like how it was recommending ASUS laptops 2 years ago... the number of people that got machines with USB ports on 1 side of the machine not working etc made me consider it a crapshoot and fight damn hard to stop people buying them. ASUS wants to sell something? Let them make a good product. Even these clevos only get recommendations because of modern-day avatars of love for their work like @John@OBSIDIAN-PC and @Donald@HIDevolution who essentially do Clevo's obligatory quality control work for them. For free, no less.

Tbone D=

 

Same here. No issues running killer cards for me, but then i'm kicking them to the curb for 10G networking.

 

Havent had issues with the Killer NIC's on Windows either. I just load the driver manually they work great.
On Linux its a totally different story though.

 

The wifi card that works best for you can depend on the router and the chipset in it.

 

To be fair, the current gen of killer I know generally works with a bare-driver install not using the driver suite. But some of the cards disconnect under heavier loads, and it's simply not fixable for many people. The cards legitimately restart themselves; disabling and re-enabling in device manager, as I have heard it reported to me.

As for any problems with intel or killer cards and ping spikes, WLAN Optimizer is basically free (performance-wise) and kills their issues. For intel you "disable background scan" and "enable streaming mode" and for killer you "disable background scan" and you're set. This simple fix I'm not counting in whether the cards work or don't work, mind.

If Killer didn't have some of their cards outright crashing under decent loads with it being repeatable (ask @PendragonInc about what his did) then I could clear them for people who knew what they're doing. But not as the crapshoots they are.

 

That's what I meant when I said "except in very specific circumstances." Their cards are sold on a lot of marketing crap but the real world performance in general doesn't match up with their marketing claims.

But yes I agree with the rest of your post. If their cards were largely problem free then great I'd recommend them, but there's too many people having too many problems with them for it to be worth the risk. The driver issues for me were largely solved by just getting rid of their crap software, but the card shutting itself off under load (for me it happens around 15MB/s) is just ridiculous. That's been an issue for years now and killer still hasn't fixed it.

 

Just tested a 40 gig backup file and it held 110 - 113MB for at least 98% of the time

 

It's a per card basis from what I understand. If your card doesn't work you will eventually need a new one, and if your card works it'll simply work no matter what you do on it.

 

Just saying....When it does work, that is what is expected.

 

Oh yes, no doubt. I did say their hardware is better than intel's too. If you get a properly working one it's the best on the market I think.

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

Nothing can match a good hard cable in the end

 

Does anyone know if I can use this TIM on a 7820HK clevo-p670HS-G? the 7820HK is bare die, i can't tell what is the cpu itself made of? its silver... so maybe the cpu is aluminum? i know the heatsink is copper...
Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut

 

The CPU itself is made of silicon. Think of it more as a "glass". It won't react like aluminum, so it's perfectly safe to use gallium-based liquids on it. That being said, I'd cover any gold contacts and other sensitive electrical area's with tape, or clear-coat nail polish, to avoid any leaking. Just be absolutely certain your heatsink is indeed copper, or nickel coated, as it will eat right through aluminum, making it extremely brittle like chalk.

 

well most people in this forum own similar laptops, so I am hoping someone can just tell me... here is what my hearsink looks like:

 

Yes, you can use conductonaut on it. It won't be an issue, just make sure it doesn't get anywhere else, and make sure it won't run anywhere.

Isn't there a P670HS thread though? I'm sure there is one.

 

There is not. i just stalk other clevo forums

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A9KIGSI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 i bought some, i will use a very very tiny amount, and spread it with the included spreader. i may put some electrical tape down around the bottom of the cpu just in case some slips off it wont hit that green pvc stuff not sure yet...


I wish I could buy that 120hs IPS screen you have... surely all clevo 17.3" screens are interchangeable install wise? i wonder how much it costs and where i can get one DD

 

I made one:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...xhs-g-sager-np8176-8177-owners-lounge.804188/

This IPS panel is nothing special. I'd take the Chi Mei N173HHE-G32 that's in the GT73VR in a heartbeat.

However... this panel should be a slot-in for you. Even if it isn't sold with it. This isn't gsync, though.

 

I just used legacy software and drivers. The newest ones don't work with my card, but I found a thread here on NBR on a legacy killer driver revision and it's been working perfectly fine since.

 

thought you told me you got a new card?

 

Yep the Intel 8265. It's my daily driver. I have the Killer one on another laptop. Use that one to test Killer software. But there's 1 that works.

 

@Meaker@Sager @D2 Ultima @Mr. Fox @Prema @bloodhawk @Papusan


Here's your proof of the 480w limit throttling the UNDERCLOCKED + UNDERVOLTED 7700K @4.2GHz

Single gpu does not have this problem.

Thermal pad setup provided by prema, ambient 30c.

7700K, bitspower kabylake IHS (thin one, bought the wrong thing) with Conducto under IHS and Kryonaut on top.
1080N SLi with kryonaut on die
780w Eurocom psu

 

Are you referring to the 3.8ghz on the "minimum" tab?

 

Every so often it would dip to 3.8ghz, not thermally throttling
The gpu also stays below 1750mhz

 

Oddly enough, you are triggering the "Ring VR Thermal Alert" flag. That's kinda weird, as that would be related to either cache, or iGPU. Looking at your cache speeds, they are also throttling 400mhz as well (see Ring Clock). Did you manually set your cache multiplier to x38? It seems odd for it to be at 38, when CPU is at 42. From my experiences with Kaby, Cache is almost always 200mhz lower than core by default. I've also found Kaby's cache to be weaker overall compared to Skylake (no idea why that is, just noticed it in my personal samples, even on 5.3ghz binned chips). The fact that it works with single-GPU makes it all the more interesting, so it's almost certainly related to a power limit of some kind.

 

Interesting.

btw. can PM me the Thermal Pad setup ?

 

cache is 300mhz lower than core, according to @D2 Ultima that's normal

Note that this is the single pipe bridge new pattern heatsink





Mine is the old pattern with two pipe bridge (see below), I used the thermal pad layout anyways with no problem.

 

Now those are some sexy heatsinks. In your opinion, which design do you think is superior for thermal performance? The new "single pipe" design? Or the older "two pipe" design? @Donald@HIDevolution do you know which version of the VC you have? I am still on the fence about getting the VC, as someone said it negatively impacts CPU thermals, but if this new design fixes that, I am definitely interested.

 

Can you raise your current limit? I think it's 1/8 of normal so 2048 in BIOS should work (throttlestop setting to 256A PP0 current limit in TPL might also work, but can't guarantee).

 

Yeah both of my heat sinks are dual pipe bridges as well.
Pretty much the same setup im using right now, just that my max thickness pads are 3.5mm instead of 4.