*** Official Clevo P770ZM / Sager NP9772 and P770ZM-G / Sager NP9773 Owner's Lounge ***

Of course its present in the service manual...the question is if the actual motherboard has it, too.

 

Awesome, can't ask for more than that! Thanks for the update and review. That's what I was used to seeing from Mythlogic.

 

Indeed some models carry one or the other or both and can vary by region. My clevo p570wm does not have an eDP connector soldered on for example where as the sager machines do.

 

G-Sync P770ZM is HERE!

LCD in P770ZM-G is LG LP173WF4-SPD1. Windows Device Manager shows Hardware ID as LGD046C

http://www.panelook.com/LP173WF4-SPD1_LG Display_17.3_LCM_invitemdetail_64227.html

 

Now the question becomes is it or is it not possible for a cost to upgrade existing models. I'll contact safer directly and see if I am able to get any more clarification on this for other users

 

Cool! That's the same panel we have in the existing IPS P77xZM.

Throwing out a noobish question here. Since I can run my screen at 75 Hz already (96 actually), what benefit would I have with Gsync?

 

It's too bad there's no ETA for Broadwell CPUs in ZM laptops as well, wish HTWingNut could have G-Sync and 5775C (with some eDRAM "magic") for his review unit!

 

I am really trying hard not to repeat myself over and over...

All answers to your questions are here:

http://forum.techinferno.com/showthread.php?t=10143

 

Don't know if that was directed at me. I'd like to know the difference between running Gsync and raising the refresh rate like we can do in the current ZMs.

 

G-sync will prevent tearing and help give you smooth motion over a variable fps scene. A higher refresh rate let's you display more frames per second, this will help smooth motion if your gpu is rendering above the old refresh rate but not prevent tearing.

 

Huh? My understanding is it doesn't let you display more fps but synchronizes it with your fps. Kinda like v-sync and 60 fps. Being in synch with say 90fps and 90hz helps prevent tearing and other artifacts? Am I right or are you right?

 

Nvidia recently updated G-Sync to let you choose whether V-Sync is enabled or disabled when FPS exceeds the VRR range

 

I said a higher refresh rate let's you show more fps while gsync makes it smoother and cuts out tearing. The ideal is both of course.

 

No, the reply was to Red Line's questions (which he has edited out of his post now) regarding upgrade options for current ZM owners for g-sync and Broadwell.

 

So just raising the refresh rate doesn't prevent tearing above 60 fps? I thought it did on mine, must be placebo then.

 

It does not, GPU and monitor are not in sync

 

I trust you are right, I´m just having difficulties understanding how it works.

On a 60 Hz screen and a game producing more than 60 fps tearing will occur because the screen can´t finish displaying a frame before it has to display a new one, thus sometimes displaying half frames. Right?

Having a higher native refresh rate raises the possible fps before tearing occurs. Right?

What´s the difference between native 75 Hz and "clocked" 75 Hz then? Is it that a screen with clocked refresh rate isn´t in sync with the GPU so you get tearing anyway?

 

Prema, yep edited my post after i paid a little more attention at your post over TI)

As of today we know that P770M-G has a default 75Hz (stock 60Hz for P770ZM non-G) display refresh rate in NVCP. Which bios do you think makes it work at higher refresh rate - system bios of vbios? Sager points on Geforce GPUs as G-Sync capable, the price difference between G and non-G models is 100$ ((

 

No, tearing occurs in the absence of V-Sync or G-Sync. FPS or Hz doesn't matter. Without the perfect synchronization achieved by V-Sync/G-Sync, it will tear.

In summary:

V-Sync: Syncs GPU's output to monitor's refresh rate. No tearing but input lag.

G-Sync: Sync's monitor's refresh rate to GPU's output. No tearing or lag.

No V-Sync or G-Sync? GPU and monitor are out of sync, so there is tearing.

 

You say playing a game at 40 fps without V-sync produce as much tearing as 70 fps, both on a 60 Hz screen? Framerate has no impact whatsoever, no V-sync = tearing?
I´ve always thought the crucial point was if your fps was above or below the refresh rate. Above and you have to enable V-sync but then suffer input lag.

 

Idk how you quantify "how much" tearing there is, but yes, there is still tearing when FPS is below Hz. Tearing that happens when FPS<Hz might look different than tearing that happens when FPS>Hz, but tearing is present nonetheless. There is nothing preventing GPU from outputting in the middle of the monitor's refresh cycle.

 

Ok, thanks for all the info.
Now I have to go look for tearing when fps is below refresh rate

 

Try capping FPS exactly at refresh rate. This causes a really slow tear for me, usually near the bottom of the screen, and always in that one area. It's distracting as hell, that's why I usually limit to 62 FPS instead of 60.

 

With V-sync, the FPS will jump from 60 to 50 to 40, and there can be noticeable stutter due to that. If your laptop/PC can maintain over 60FPS consistently then it's less of an issue. With G-sync it will sync every frame regardless of framerate up to the screens maximum refresh, where it will cap out. Although even with V-sync vs G-sync there is a noticeable difference. Most of that is using Nvidia's G-sync pendulum demo so far, and I think they exaggerate the issue a bit more, but it proves the point.

This is one of those things that you really have to see first hand to understand/appreciate. Taking video of it won't help much because then you're relying on the camera and the device to play it back on to be able to pick up on the nuances. Which with conventional consumer grade hardware isn't likely. You'd really need a high capture rate and high resolution camera displayed to capture it properly.

 

For what it´s worth, atm I´m playing games with screen at 96 Hz without V-sync. Fps is usually 50-110 and I rarely see any tearing.

 

Tearing happens when the GPU sends frames to the display faster than the display can display them. That is, tearing is the display choking on being force-fed frames.

Tearing is not necessarily visible. Depends on too many factors to easily list.

V-Sync prevents tearing by capping the video output to the display's frame rate. V-sync has its own set of problems like input lag when the game is throttled and choppy playback when the frame rate drops below the v-sync cap. OpenGL solves this by triple buffering the video output.

Direct3D can do triple buffering but D3D games typically don't use it. Why? Video memory. Specifically the lack thereof. Demand for big textures and eye candy effects from gamers and gaming press pressure developers into allocating vRAM to these things instead of output buffering. So, we get eye candy and choppy video.

G-Sync is Nvidia's way of ripping off gamers... I mean "fixing" the tearing problem by dynamically adjusting the display's frame rate to match the video output frame rate. This assures the video output and display will always be in lock-step at least up to the display's maximum rate. AMD's FreeSync does the same thing without the exorbitant price tag.

My way of fixing the problem is to fire up Nvidia Inspector, going into the game profile, and setting the frame rate limiter to PS_soemthingorother_FPS_30. This causes the game to render at 30 frames per second and the GPU to double every frame to match my 60Hz display. It's not as good as triple buffering, but it doesn't glitch out like many games do when forcing them to do true triple buffering when they don't support it.

 

The panel firmware itself could be modified to create the stock 75hz.

As for 30 fps that will work with strategy games etc but for first person shooters for example that's not great.

 

Probably a stupid question, but does anyone know of a manual or picture to indicate what screws I need to remove to access the cooling setup for cleaning.

 

There are four retaining screws securing the bottom panel with the intake vents: one at each of the rear corners, one center rear and one center. Remove all four screws completely, slide the panel back and lift it away from the case.

 

Thank you very much ratinox - had done that right after you responded but didnt have my phone setup to reply =)

 

Remember the fans can be removed by themselves, no need for a repaste for a simple cleaning job

 

Yes, indeed. The fan nacelles are separate from the heat pipe assembly. That's a nice bit of attention to detail on the part of Clevo's designers there. Also, props to Clevo for numbering the heat pipe retention screws for correct seating (reverse the order for removal).

 

I'm hoping any new G-Sync model P770ZM owners can chime in with their VBIOS build dates.

I posted in HTWingNut's thread with his initial impressions on the P770ZM-G:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...itial-impressions.776973/page-3#post-10021291

I received a new P-770ZM-G on Friday and I have no option to enable G-Sync in the Nvidia control panel even though I installed the latest drivers.

 

Here's a nice review of a P770ZM (Eurocom P7 Pro) with an i7-5775C. While the reviewer notes an overclock of 4.1 GHz without a voltage increase, he doesn't compare the performance to a 4790K.

 

any " MAJOR" differences between
NP9773-S Notebook and our computer?

what's up with the G-SYNC Technology?

 

There are a few reviews out there of G-Sync, it makes your display dipict smoother motion and eliminates screen tearing.

 

G-SYNC is similar to V-SYNC but done through hardware so it eliminates much of the lag.

 

..

i have an Np9772 with 980m gtx it has a v-sync?

 

It does not, the NP9773 does.
Edited: Yes v-sync is there, you can get set that in the game options. G-sync is not.

 

I think Hutsady means that it does have V-sync but not G-sync, correct? V-sync can be enabled in-game on most systems. Unless I'm missing something completely here .

 

You're right I did mean that, edited post, thanks!

 

No, they're not. They're two very different things. But first, tearing. What is it?

Tearing happens when the video output rate exceeds the refresh rate of the display. A typical rendering engine maintains two buffers: the front buffer containing the rendered image being displayed and the back buffer where rendering happens. When the back buffer is finished it is flipped or copied to the front and the front buffer becomes the back buffer for the next frame. Tearing occurs when these flips happen faster than the display can keep up.

V-sync locks the timing of these buffer flips to the display's refresh rate. The problem is that the back buffer is locked until the next "tick" of the refresh cycle. The engine blocks. This results in input lag.

The solution to this problem is triple buffering. Triple buffering adds a second back buffer so that one back buffer can be updated while the other back buffer is locked. The most recently locked back buffer is flipped to the front on the display refresh ticks. There is no tearing, the engine does not block and there is no input lag. The problem here is that the second back buffer takes up vRAM that game designers would rather use for larger textures and eye candy, thus few triple-A games are written to use triple buffering. You can usually force triple buffering with a tool like Nvidia Inspector but some games glitch if you do.

Nvidia's solution to the input lag problem is to rip off gamers with their G-Sync technology. G-Sync is the opposite of v-sync: it dynamically adjusts the refresh rate of the display to match the output rate of the rendering engine up to the maximum refresh rate of the display. There is no tearing, no stuttering, no input lag as long as the rendering rate does not exceed the display's capabilities.

AMD's FreeSync is the same thing as G-Sync but without Nvidia's steep price tag and with acceptance by VESA as an option for DisplayPort 1.2a and later.

 

Tearing can happen just as easily when FPS is below refresh rate if the GPU pushes a new frame in the middle of a monitor refresh. Engaging V-Sync or G-Sync/FreeSync is the only way to prevent tearing.

There is no native support for triple buffering in D3D, that's why the triple buffering option in AMD and Nvidia drivers (Nvidia Inspector = Nvidia driver) only works in OGL. The only way to force triple buffering in D3D is with D3DOverrider or RadeonPro, otherwise you have to rely on in-game support.

 

Thanks for the clarification about Nvidia Inspector.

Direct3D provides something called render ahead which solves the input lag problem but introduces queue latency problems. Why Microsoft has never provided support for triple buffering is beyond me.

 

Microsoft took their eye off the ball for some time on the direct 3d front but at least g-sync/freesync are the optimal solution.

 

For certain values of "optimal". I still maintain that triple buffering is the real optimal solution but I don't make money making games or selling hardware so my biases don't necessarily coincide with the industry.

 

They are a bit better however, keeping the refresh rate in sync means you are never waiting on any frames ready to go out.

 

Up to the capabilities of the display. If the game renders faster than the refresh rate of the screen then the image tears, the engine blocks, or unused frames are dropped. Pick one.

 

That's why slightly higher refresh rates are nice in that case to increase the range and you run into less engine issues.

Certainly at 1440p 144hz I don't run into issues but notebooks at 75hz-80hz with a single GPU at 1080p should be good too.

For dual GPUs you will want an external display to really unleash them anyway but yes there are tweaks to be done.

 

So, 75Hz displays replace 60Hz displays as the norm. Then GPUs get more powerful and gamers need faster displays and 120Hz to benefit from G-Sync. Then 144Hz. Then 240Hz, 300Hz, and so on. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of "encouraging" gamers to replace their screens every couple of years, screens that would perform perfectly well for 5, 10, 20 years maybe with nary a hitch if games used triple buffering by default.

When I say that I think G-Sync is a scam? That's why.