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    *** Official Clevo P770ZM / Sager NP9772 and P770ZM-G / Sager NP9773 Owner's Lounge ***

    Discussion in 'Sager/Clevo Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by HTWingNut, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    How much RAM to get isn't something I can answer. I don't know what FSX's requirements are. I will say that too much RAM never hurts but not enough RAM will hurt.
     
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  2. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Thanks ratinox,

    FSX is a 32 bit application and the conventional wisdom is 6 to 8 GB of RAM. I just went with 16GB out of habit. This is why they suggest locking the pagefile at 3072.

    I didn't go with 32GB of RAM because I thought that the overhead of 4 sticks would not provide a benefit because I'm only running a 32bit application. I can always order 2 more sticks if needed.

    I feel very comfortable with the suggestions you gave me and I'll be sure to post a review of how this machine will run the sim. Thank you again.

    Bobby
     
  3. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    The 500GB M.2 EVO drives use 16 core packages, so there are still 32 dies to stripe across leading to high performance.

    It makes no difference at this point where you put the OS, with the samsung drive being able to hit such high read speeds even if the OS does make a read here and there it wont make a noticeable difference to your performance. It made more sense with HDDs as they got slammed hard from the odd random read but not SSDs.
     
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  4. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Thanks Meaker,

    If the m.2 drives were 1TB in size, I might not worry about placement but in this case, I have 3 things to look at.....the OS, the FSX application that is about 250GB due to the addons inside the app, and 600GB scenery files. Splitting the OS and FSX to the m.2 drives was what I was not sure of. For some reason, I was going to put the OS on the SM951, FSX on one Samsung PRO, and the scenery files on the other Samsung Pro. It didn't occur to me to put the OS on the m.2 EVO until ratinox explained it to me.

    Thank you both for the information; I learned a lot today.

    Bobby
     
  5. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    Thanks for the info.

    The reason I suggested putting the OS on the slowest drive is to avoid any possible bandwidth contention with the on-the-fly data. Yes, it's min-maxing. No, it's probably not necessary. But, putting the OS on the fastest drive is the wrong choice if it pushes any of the on-the-fly data onto a slower drive. And, if for no other reason, putting OS and data on separate devices simplifies backups and restores.
     
  6. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    There is min maxing and then there is chasing that last 0.01% ;)

    As for backups it really depends on what data you have is changing and what is important.
     
  7. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    Yes, well, I used to work in the financial industry. That 0.01% is still real money.
    I don't work in that field any more, happily so, but some habits die hard.

    Separating data from the OS means you can wipe the OS drive or partition without affecting the data. Or vice-versa. That's a useful tool.
     
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  8. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Documents and such yes, but programs are linked into windows and if windows changes it can cause mismatches.
     
  9. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    IMO this is one of the worst things about Windows. Microsoft really need to bring application bundles to desktop Windows.
     
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  10. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Yes, I agree on that, too messy as it is.
     
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  11. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Even Jeff Cline over at Mythlogic wondered why I was doing it.

    If I wasn't running a legacy simulator with issues that the flight simulator community has been trying to tweak for the past 10 years, I'd never ask the questions.

    After 10 years of trying to run this poorly coded and unsupported yet potentially great simulator, the hardware is finally arriving to compensate for it's deficiencies. In this case, that 0.01% may actually make a difference while flying in multiplayer mode. The other thing is sometimes the sim gets so fubar'ed that it's easier to uninstall, reformat, and reinstall. I can save time by having the simulator separate from the OS and simply delete the appdata folders in Windows.

    I've been fighting this simulator for over 10 years. My P170EM came close but I think the jump to the P770ZM is big enough to make it work the way I would like it.

    Anyway, thank you both for the information. Just learning new things by your discussions is worth the price of admission :) :vbthumbsup:
     
  12. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    If you are moving from HDD to SSD and had storage speed issues, you wont now ;) Not unless you were putting in my first SSD which was a Kingston drive (intel controller) at a whopping 40GB.
     
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  13. Aegaeon

    Aegaeon Notebook Enthusiast

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    Can any recent Mythlogic Phobos 1715 (P770ZM) owners confirm if they have G-Sync working?

    On their configuration page they have this line for the LCD panel where the only option is:

    17.3" Full HD (1920x1080) IPS Matte LCD ( nVIDIA G-Sync Tech 970/980M)

    Searching on "nvidia g-sync laptop" I found some news around Jan/Feb where someone got it working with a leaked alpha driver on an Asus, but I found nothing about official support yet.

    Wouldn't this mean the Mythlogic has and eDP display connector?

    Looking through this and other threads I got the impression that only models with 4K panels use eDP, and the FHD panels use LVDS.
     
  14. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    All current IPS displays on the market use eDP.
     
  15. Aegaeon

    Aegaeon Notebook Enthusiast

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  16. TomJGX

    TomJGX I HATE BGA!

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    This particular pannel, the LG IPS screen supports GSynC.. The main problem is that the drivers have to enable it which was done only in that leaked driver which is old now... SO if NVIDIA ever reveals this tech for these monitors officially, GSync should work on the P770ZM with this pannel..
     
  17. Aegaeon

    Aegaeon Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yep, I'm assuming that if Mythlogic is advertising G-Sync support on their site then they must know something we don't about official driver support from Nvidia coming soon.
     
  18. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Mine was shipped today and will arrive next Tuesday. My order at the time did not have G-Sync support although I noticed the new panel about 2 weeks into my order.

    Mobile Display: 17.3" Full HD (1920x1080) IPS Matte LCD

    I'll post if mine happens to have it but it may not make a difference anyway because mine will be a dedicated Flight Simulator machine and I'll be happy to get enough FPS to prevent stutters and micro-freezes.

    Bobby
     
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  19. Aegaeon

    Aegaeon Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thanks Cap'n Bobby, maybe it will just require a BIOS update once the driver support is there.
     
  20. ZachZombify

    ZachZombify Notebook Geek

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    Hey guys what do you think of these: link
     
  21. pukemon

    pukemon are you unplugged?

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    tada. started at 172,xxx points when i got my batman which was accomplished in ~4 years with a sandy bridge np5160. i'm at 1,176,xxx, over 1 millions points in less than 4 months with batman. color me impressed.
     

    Attached Files:

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  22. TomJGX

    TomJGX I HATE BGA!

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    This is the standard LG IPS 17.3" 1080p Display.. It's pretty good... And it should have GSync support...
     
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  23. Kommando

    Kommando Notebook Evangelist

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    Unless LG didn't pay enough for the nVidia-cookie in the firmware that unlocks this otherwise free technology ;)
     
  24. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Hi all,

    As a new SSD user, I'm going to risk the embarrassment of the totally noob question here and ask anyway :)

    All my Flight Simulator machines have always had multiple HDD's primarily because I know I shouldn't run Fraps on the same disk as the simulator. I use Fraps extensively with Movie Maker 2.6 and HD codecs to make flight videos for my YouTube channel. I also am constantly writing and deleting large raw videos on the HDD after I load them up to YouTube.

    This is my first machine with all drive slots filled with SSD's. I have read where constant writing and deleting of files is not a good idea.

    I'm not to sure I can install Windows Movie Maker 2.6 somewhere other than the OS drive, I do intend to install Fraps on one of my portable HDD's through a USB port.

    My questions are:

    1. Am I really worried about nothing and should just run Movie Maker on the OS SSD and Fraps on one of my extra SSD's?

    2. I thought of just recording the flight videos on Fraps to the portable HDD, then plugging it into my old P170EM that only has 2 HDD's and creating the videos on that machine. I'm not sure if my paid copy of Fraps will see that as a hardware change and not run.

    3. I'm sure most of you make videos of your games. How do you do it with an SSD only machine.

    Thank you in advance for your advice and suggestions.

    Bobby
     
  25. pukemon

    pukemon are you unplugged?

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    Hopefully you didn't buy evo's. 850 pro, Intel or sandisk ssd's and you should be fine.
     
  26. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Thanks pukemon, I should have included the specs.

    m.2 Slots 1 Samsung 512GB SM951 m.2 PCIe x4 Solid Sate Drive (Flight Simulator program)
    m.2 Slots 2 Samsung 850 EVO 500GB m.2 SATA III 6GB/s Solid State Drive (Windows 7 Pro OS)
    Hard Drive 1 Samsung 1TB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive (Simulator photo scenery files)
    Hard Drive 2 Samsung 1TB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive (Spare)
     
  27. pukemon

    pukemon are you unplugged?

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    Interesting on the evo choice as OS. Keep is updated if performance degrades. I broke down and bought one, but to use it for a virtual Linux. So it's disposable. Having problems with resolution changes. Haven't had time to troubleshoot and figure it out.
     
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  28. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    I put the OS on the EVO m.2 because I need the faster read speeds of the SM951 for the simulator. For the 1TB drives, I did chose the PRO's for precisely the reason you're concerned about.....the speed degradation of the EVO models.

    I also read just before I ordered the EVO m.2 was that the degradation issue was supposedly resolved with a firmware update and I also read a review by Hilbert over at Guru3D that had high praise for the EVO m.a and he did not mention the issue. I generally make a lot of purchase decisions based on his reviews.

    That said......this is new technology for me so I'll get baseline benchmarks on my machine when it arrives tomorrow and monitor them over time. For the price I paid....this little beast better scream for at least a couple years :D

    Bobby
     
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  29. pukemon

    pukemon are you unplugged?

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    I am doubtful that the 850 evo will have the problem. Samsung widened up and using a larger NAND, 40nm for the evo and pro.
     
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  30. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    The slowdown problem is unique to the 840 EVO. The 850 series should be unaffected (different flash technology).
     
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  31. superkyle1721

    superkyle1721 Notebook Evangelist

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    Looking for a bit of advice...I'm planning on purchasing the sm951 NVmE variant. I'm only going to use it as the OS drive so I have no need in buying more than the 128 GB as file storage will be on the raid 850 pros. Is it even worth buying the 128GB as the speeds loss between the smaller and larger drive size is fairl significant.
     
  32. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    Given that the only reason to buy NVmE instead of SATA is performance, buying a slightly larger drive to get more performance seems worth the cost.
     
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  33. superkyle1721

    superkyle1721 Notebook Evangelist

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    You are right. My concern is since it will only be an OS drive and not used for games, files or programs does the extra speed really matter outside of benchmarks? We are talking double the cost and additional un used storage space for the benefit of an increase in speed. I'm just not sure the increase in speed will ever even be used in my circumstance which is why I'm asking...some of you guys are much more knowledgeable about drives than I am.
     
  34. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    This is why I went with a SATA M.2 drive instead of NVMe in mine. The additional cost of NVMe just isn't worth it to me. NVMe is still primarily an enterprise thing for environments that need performance at any cost. If you're balking at the phrase "at any cost" (I sure do) then you should probably stick with SATA for the next few years until NVMe prices come down.
     
  35. superkyle1721

    superkyle1721 Notebook Evangelist

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    The cheapest I can fine the 850 Evo m.2 Sata is around $100 for a 128Gb version. The sm951 128Gb is around $140...the $40 difference is worth it to me as far as the difference in benchmarks. Of course this price gap becomes much larger as you increase the size so I see your point. Honestly the 128GB sm951 would be perfect if I didn't have to stare at the much higher read and write scores of the 500GB version while trying to checkout haha.
     
  36. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    If you do go M.2 SATA then don't pay premium prices just for performance. Even budget-priced 250GB models are capable of saturating the 6Gb/s SATA3 bandwidth.
     
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  37. Kommando

    Kommando Notebook Evangelist

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    Right, the 850 Series is not affected. Only 840 Non-Pro Models are. And i'm doubtful that it will ever be solved.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
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  38. WJamesLord

    WJamesLord Notebook Geek

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    Anandtech and Tom's Hardware have both posted reviews / benchmarks for the new Intel Broadwell processors: Core i7-5775C and i5-5675C. While the articles are interesting reads and show potential in the two CPUs, neither examines the overclocking abilities. Unless the i7-5775C can approach the clock speed of the i7-4790K, I would not think it would be a good investment. However, if the i7-5775C proved to be an overclocking monster, the lower TDP might make it worth the money. Hopefully, there will be some good follow-up reviews that measure the overclocking abilities of these new processors.
     
  39. Cakefish

    Cakefish ¯\_(?)_/¯

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    Don't bother with Broadwell. Wait for Skylake. It'll be worth it, as explained in this article:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/intel-finall...-desktop-cpusheres-why-you-shouldnt-buy-them/
     
  40. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

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    And we're back to Megahertz myths. Yes, the Broadwell processors are clocked lower than their Haswell counterparts but that doesn't mean they are slower in terms of processing throughput. As sort of an extreme comparison, the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition at ~3.3GHz runs approximately 7900 MIPS; the current i7 Extreme Edition at ~3.3GHz runs approximately 178K MIPS -- quite a bit more than going from 1 core to 8 cores can account for. I'm not expecting anywhere near that much of a difference between Haswell K and Broadwell C, but I'm not listening to anyone who says "stay away from Broadwell C" until after the detailed side by side comparisons are published.

    "Wait for Skylake" is a no-op for anyone with socket LGA 1150.
     
  41. WJamesLord

    WJamesLord Notebook Geek

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    Agreed. Upon looking at the benchmark comparisons between the 5775C and 4790K, you can extrapolate that the per watt performance of the 5775C processor is definitely improved. The question remains: Does it warrant your money? I will just wait to see how well it overclocks and then compare it to the 4790K.
     
  42. AxiomVerge

    AxiomVerge Newbie

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    I'm wondering if anyone else had a high-pitched coil whine noise seemingly originating from the Realtek High Definition Audio device.

    The sound appears to come from the hardware itself and not the speakers, as it's equally loud when the volume is lowered or muted. It starts when a sound plays (for example the windows "open folder" sound) and lasts for 30 seconds or so, as if activated by the sound processing. If I plug in headphones or speakers to the audio jacks, it stays on continuously. It only goes away when I disable the Realtek within Device Manager.

    As a workaround I'm using an external usb adapter I already had, but it would certainly be nice to be able to use the internal card and free up that usb slot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  43. Kelvin2k5

    Kelvin2k5 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi. I own XMG U705 (Clevo P771ZM) with 17.3" (43.9cm) Full-HD CHIMEI N173HGE-L11 (1920*1080) is it hard to upgrade to 17.3" (43.9cm) Full-HD LG LP173WF4-SPD1 (1920*1080) Matte IPS? And does it support Nvidia G-Sync?
     
  44. TomJGX

    TomJGX I HATE BGA!

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    @XMG any idea if this is possible? Would you guys be able to replace the pannel with the IPS one for an upgrade fee or something? I'm pretty sure from memory that the IPS pannel model has a newer lid revision to allow the pannel to fit...
     
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  45. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    I replied to this in the other thread where Kevin2k5 asked the same question :) Thanks for bringing it to my attention TomJGX

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...out-configuration.772152/page-2#post-10017590
     
  46. Prema

    Prema Your Freedom, Your Choice

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    Your current screen uses a LVDS port to connect to the motherboard. The IPS screen uses an eDP connector.
    There are some motherboard revisions that have both connector present but they are rather rare.
    You can check out the the service manual (click my signature) of your model to see exact locations and confirm if the eDP port is present on your board or not.

    Regrading g-sync on this system:

    http://forum.techinferno.com/clevo/10143-computex-2015-a.html
     
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  47. D2 Ultima

    D2 Ultima Livestreaming Master

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    Performance per watt? There's been nothing that gives that data yet that I have seen.
    Remember: rated TDP is pointless. I could run Linpack right now at stock speeds with an undervolt and pull almost double my rated TDP. Far less that desktop chip.

    What we need to see is a direct comparison of clock-for-clock, with the same voltages on each chip (regardless of stability reasons; all other variables simply need to be held equal) and then check the watts drawn and the performance. If it draws 80W extra at 4GHz at 1.2v in benchmark X but the Haswell chip at 4GHz at 1.2v only draws 68W in benchmark X, then it's quite clear broadwell is more inefficient. And since at higher clockspeeds in the mobile market users with unlocked chips proved that Haswell could even draw a full 30W more than Ivy Bridge, this is not a far-fetched scenario. Just because the IPC has improved does not mean the chip is "more efficient". It simply means it gets more done per clock cycle. It's like a car that can go from 0-60 in 10 seconds being able to drive 50 miles on 1 gallon of gas versus a car that can go 0-70 in 10 seconds, but it can only drive 30 miles on 1 gallon of gas. It's obvious the second card is faster, but it isn't a more efficient car.

    AND we also need a comparison of temperatures, though temps are not as easy to compare directly (as they vary chip to chip) as power draw and IPC improvements.
     
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  48. Samot

    Samot Notebook Evangelist

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  49. Captain_Bobby

    Captain_Bobby Notebook Consultant

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    Hi all,

    First of all, thank you everyone for your advice and suggestions.

    I wrote a review in the resellers feedback forum about my experiences with Mythlogic. In short, the machine was configured, tested, and delivered exactly as I wanted.

    I installed the simulator and I am truly blown away by the performance of the simulator on this machine. It runs flawlessly with absolutely no tweaking. In the old days it was a constant battle of tweaks to get it to run somewhat well. The combination of the 4790K with the 980M and the SM951 m.2 drive is incredible. Under heavy CPU loads on extended flights, the 4790K stays cool and does not throttle down. I'm completely satisfied with this machine and the job Mythlogic did with it. The bottom line is that the P770ZM, as I configured it, exceeds my expectations with my simulator.

    Again, thank you all for your help.

    Bobby
     
  50. Kelvin2k5

    Kelvin2k5 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Trophy Points:
    6
    Went through service manual and found that (eDP just below No 10) is present. Or I'm mistaken?
     

    Attached Files:

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