*** Official Clevo P75xDM and P77xDM/Sager NP9758-G and NP9778-G "Batman 2.0" Owner's Lounge ***

Where did you get it in the UK? Also what's the cheapest place for the Sandisk Extreme SSD's? I need a new SSD lol.. 240GB doesn't cut it anymore...

 

worth it when u already HAVE a zm....? that sounds very strange coming from a 5yr old laptop owner....sorry but those are just my thoughts right now plus, most of the "improvements/upgrades" ure listing are also either available on the zm (gsync/4k screens) or dont translate into any real-life performance boost whatsoever (64 vs 32 gb of ram? unless ure a professional whod go for a workstation then anyways / m.2 ssds in raid - 3.5 gb/s vs. 1.7gb/s in sequential speeds, when exactly do u see a performance boost in real life? in what scenario? especially seeing as 4K perf. is actually lower in raid / usbc & tb3, sure, makes sense if ud want to transfer terabytes of large data, when do u do this regularly? or use it for external graphics, but then why get such a powerful machine in the first place?)

to repeat what ive stated previously: DM seems to be an awesome machine and clevo did indeed manage to apparently improve on the ZM design. so if ure planning to upgrade a several years old machiney go for it by all means. but upgrading from a zm....? that just screams "i WANT/NEED the latest&" greatest", just cuz, even if it doesnt make sense, need to scratch that itch!

oh and btw @MichaelKnight4Christ: if u dont get urself a DM already ill come over and kick ur ass! get urself a machine and get it over with already! gee...

/rant

@bigspin: so ure keeping both machines?

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I brought the CPU from CCLOnline.com and SanDisk SSD's from Amazon.de






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I love it when other people are confused why I would upgrade and they seemingly become critical...As if their interpretation of leisure or work behavior is the only possible situation. It's almost as if my choice to upgrade from a machine they presently own offends them?

Saying I will certainly upgrade from a ZM to a DM doesn't belittle the current beast of a machine the ZM already is... Just that the benefit of buying a new one outweighs the cost my situation. Your elaborate rebuttal is only there to further reassure yourself that you are making the right choice by not upgrading... Not swaying anyone else who has already decided to do so.

<3

 

I've always been a big believer in if the money is yours then it's only yourself you have to justify any purchases to.

I bought a Titan-x on launch, even when the 980Ti launched I was not concerned.

 

I enjoyed reading this wondering how I would reply back to this hilarious but deserving rant. I am a big future proofer so my type of owner is that who keeps his machines to the very end and does not resell them. Your right I have 2 functional laptops one 10yo and the other nearly 6yo. I was speaking for myself wanting an upgrade but I was also speaking for those who have a zm and I gotta say your perceptive to have caught this. I will explain: if you purchased a zm you have a sweet machine that will last for many years to come this is still my stance and it never changed, however bear in mind that I never purchased it because of a few reasons and one was that since I am the "holding on to my pc type" and I knew this machine had no other chips after hasewell and did not have a tb port, I had no choice but to wait since it would not qualify as a machine to hold on to(read my early posts on zm rumor thread and the first batcave). I'm thinking most people that have this machine bought it with the intent to try it out but not to keep for life and I talked with a few others and they intend to sell what they have for the DM and bought their ZM or whatever 1-2 yo pc knowing there gonna sell it eventually.

I do believe the DM is a worthy upgrade from the ZM especially for those who already have maxed out the ZM and demand more potential power for projects they want or need to do. For example, if you have a zm but you only have a i5 or a xeon with a 970m 8gb ram and no ssd and mostly use it for gaming then heck naw lol...you have a choice to save money and time and work with what you have lol as you already have a great notebook with untapped potential. However those who have followed my equation for buying at the right time which is: (New OS+New cpu/board+New Gpu= right time!) are looking forward to the DM and other machines with skylake and tb3. This DM checks all my requirements and its what I wanted in the first place from the original concept of having desktop cpu's in notebooks. The Zm fell short "TO ME" due to lack of upgrades after 4790k and had no tb (in case mxmb stopped). However the DM fits the bill and has those areas covered and maybe that is a reason ZM owners may want to upgrade in addition to the other features and upgrades the new skylake brings.

Now back to me:
I never had an upgrade since 2009 and anybody who knows me knows I speak for my self primarily first setting the example with my own actions first then that in turn may influence others. Learning from my previous laptops which all did there job and lasted, I needed one I could repair or upgrade myself like a mini desktop. My previous ones are fairly repairable althogh I never had the need to but.... none of my previous has the ability to upgrade. That is why I want something like the DM, yes 64gb ram is plenty more, and tb3 and cpu's ranging in generations are overkill now but for the rare breed that I am I want something that has the potential to last and stay relevant for a long time. Plus I do actually do many demanding projects as of recently including video editing, gaming, and gaming design and modding. So I want to have decent power for now while having potential for future demands. Having a notebook for so long I do see whats important and thats why the DM has passed my recommendation list to anyone upgrading. If it all works out I want to donate my 11yo laptop to people I know who need it and I will share this new one with my family while still mostly using my 5yo hp for work related task since all my work is on there.

I was getting inpatient because I was doing some demanding video edits that took a long time with my current setups but with the grace of God I did complete that job and I remembered how I started out being patient and long suffering is a biblical theme. At this point we just have to wait even more because while I do want to upgrade asap I want the machine to be completed properly not rushed. Plus I want to wait for reviews and testing and other products to compare. Patience is important most of all for me at this stage in my life. I hope to see some nice clevos soon I look forward to the upgrade.

 

ok wow *lol* here i thought i was being crystal clear in my last statement, but it seems i wasnt, so here goes...

i purchased my machine with a 4 yr warranty, exactly because i am planning to keep it for that minimum length of time. in that time frame, i expect it so serve my desired purposes & tasks perfectly well. that being said, i of course am aware that technology development doesnt stand still, thus the ZM wont be the "end of evolution" and the pinnacle of all things laptop-wise so, based on this situation, please explain to me why exactly i would be "offended" when someone else decides to buy the ZM´s successor, namely the DM series? simple answer: i wont, because there is no reason to.
what there IS a reason for, however, is your statement concerning my confusion. there you´re spot on! i AM confused as to why exactly an owner of a ZM would upgrade to a DM for previously stated reasons. I will go even a step further in that description and say the following: even if someone was just getting his/her hardware for the lulz of big benchmark numbers, he/she would either:

- go big or go home: meaning go for a sli machine or an ultimate desktop monster like the P570WM
- be exclusively crazy about storage benchmarks, but not RAM / CPU / GPU benchmarks, cuz thats the only area where significant boosts could be achieved (in benchmarks, that is)

seeing as i gave good examples about potential usage scenarios and also judging myself to be pretty open-minded to "alternative" leisure / work scenarios aside form my own, since I havent just been a member of this forum and others only since yesterday, i dont think that your statement pertaining my "interpretation of leisure or work behavior is the only possible situation". please feel free to re-check my previous post and, quoting it, state situations (other than the already mentioned) where the different hardware situation in the DM would significantly(!) improve the leisure/workflow performance ill be certainly extremely curious...

aside from that, i am not trying to sway anyone here and based on my current financial status i would be able to upgrade my hardware on a monthly basis pretty much. i would rather state the exact opposite, in that people who just for the satisfaction of their itch being gone for the moment, try and justify unrealistic work scenarios where a DM would actually greatly surpass a ZM and would thus give them a perfect excuses to upgrade so yeah, thats definitely self-reassurance right there for ya

i never stated or commanded anyone here on how to spend their money. as i was already hinting above, if i am asking specific questions and the only answer i get is: "leave me alone, its my money!" well in that case we go full circle and again end up at the principle of self-reassurance

as for the titan x example, why would u be concerned? the titan x is still more performant than the 980Ti, soooo..... yeah

sure, i understand your stand and i actually applaud it. no matter if you can afford buying new hardware every 6-12 months or not, being able to accurately judge ur needs and wants and properly follow them instead of just buying blindly just for the principle of being on the bleeding edge, in some instances by name rather than just by actual performance, that is not really wise or even sensible in my eyes. best example: would performance enthusiast in their right mind swap out their MQ-cpu based machine with possibly MXM gpus in SLI just swap out their hardware for, say, a gigabyte aorus machine with all-soldered BGA crap that throttles like hell just so that can say: hey, ive got a newer-gen machine, so it MUST be better, because it has a higher model number!
naturally, this example overstates and exaggerates the ZM to DM comparison, but the end effect and core question still stands: where do i see actual, significant, real life performance gains and in which scenarios do they help me improve my workflow? these questions still havent been answered yet...

ok, so based on this part of ur post, youre actually confirming exactly what i just said right before: you would say that the DM is a worthy upgrade over the ZM, because.... its newer / it has a higher model number / its the official successor. what i am curious about: in which specific leisure / work scenario of yours would the DM significantly benefit you compared to a ZM? and which checkboxes are these that are being checked, aside from the simple principle of "hey! its newer, so it MUST, by law of marketing, be better!" please see previously stated example of MQ cpu MXM sli machine vs. gigabyte aorus (soldered BGA cpu, soldered sli gpus)

i have nothing to say against this part. as i previously stated, a person looking to buy a new machine while their present hardware is 2+ years old, is completely sensible in waiting for the DM series rather than getting a ZM machine. I could state that exact recommendation if such a person would ask me for advice on this. but, as it should be clear by now, the main focus of this conversation are people who already own a ZM and would try to justify to a DM by self-reassurance that "newer is better, because....its newer!"

again, nothing really to add here

alright, this is what i have to say that is relevant to this topic. i have precisely stated my arguments and have not seen any valuable counter-arguments against them thus far. if you guys have anything sensible and logical to add, please be my guest. if not, and are just repeating pseudo-points like "you cant tell me how to spend my money" then ill just consider this topic finished and my viewpoints confirmed

TL;DR:
- My previous questions pertaining: "real-life performance boost scenarios going from ZM to DM" have not been answered yet
- People tend to self-reassure themselves when wanting to upgrade frequently, especially when there is no actual performance increase involved ("dont tell me how to spend MY money!")
- I am not reassuring my purchase by trying to sway others. there is a reason i purchased a 4yr warranty with my machine
- If you cannot dissuade my viewpoints with sensible / logical arguments and hard facts, then please refrain from repeating emotionally-based comments

cheers folks!

 

This has turned into a wall of text thread

Some people want the best but need a certain chassis type, the P570WM is a different class of system, it's not just simply better.

So they upgrade to the same chassis but more up to date. It's not the most economical solution but it is their money at the end of the day. It will be faster, it's just if the small CPU power and larger connectivity advancements are useful to you.

 

Oh yup. That was crystal clear

This type of defensive wall of text is precisely why I have stopped participating in this forum.

 

...he said while continuing to participate but yeah, laziness to read is surely a problem in a text-based forum

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Can we maybe just discuss news of the DM as it comes out, rather than why any particular person is or isn't upgrading?

 

That part of the post was merely my opinion based on what I do know but to be clear I'm not saying people need to upgrade from a zm just because its newer lol. I listed the valid reasons and again for people like me future proof'ers who hold on the machines the DM has a super back up plan in the name of tb3. Since we don't know precisely how long mxmb will last we do know that tb3 allows for desktop gpu docking which would give a wrench like me piece of mind knowing future upgrades are assured if by chance mxm ever stops. Hopefully it doesn't but I like to plan for the worst case scenario based on my own buying habits.

Also the potential for future cpu chips on the z170 socket could mean that even greater cpu configurations may become available for the DM but with the zm it stops after 4790k(but just to note this haswell cpu is no pushover and can last 5years no worries). However still DM 's skylake mobo will open more doors in this dept since I expect the future supported chips will keep improving with intels devoted passion to execute Moore's law. The ram cap is doubled on the DM and from what I'm seeing with rendering and crunching with video editing is that having more ram potential is important as time goes on.
The standard ddr4 is faster than the standard ddr3 and again in time not only do I expect more improvements to ram speed eventually but I suspect all this it will play a role when using specific intensive apps of the future.

Summary to Jaybee83:
-Will "every person" take advantage of all these features I mentioned? (answer) NO WAY LOL !
-Should people upgrade their already powerful ZM just because the DM is newer with more features? (answer) NO WAY SAN JOSE !
-"IF" I had a ZM with no way to refund it would I personally decide to upgrade it for a day one DM based on my personal wants ? (answer) No I would stick it out with a ZM as long as possible because I already have done so with existing machines and devices and the Zm is powerful enough to last until cannonlake or whatever is next.
-We have to wait for the DM to do real world comparisons if the upgrade is truly justified. Please note I said I think it is based on what I have seen but only time can confirm this.
-Will I get the DM before Jaybee gets violent ? (answer) Most liekly but we shall see ! For the record its looking really good so far and the DM is #1 in terms of meeting my specifications from what I can tell so far. I'm waiting for other cpu's and clevo notebooks just to compare at this point.

 

The " W"s who, what, where, when, why, and ho w.

The answer to those questions told me to buy the ZM and not wait for the DM.

Why - CPU. The 4790K seems to be right with Skylake - give or take. By the way Broadwell was in between and yes it works in the ZM. Technically, an upgrade. So, two generations later and equal performance.

When - TB3. All the "W"s here, really. The dearth of TB1 and TB2 peripherals, where are they? When will it be supported? How many choices do the current Clevo (P37xx)TB port owners have? What prices for the limited peripherals? Possibly the USB-C connector will change the future of Thunderbolt. Who knows when or if this will finally take off? A year from now.... what's Clevo's next xM model? Wait for TB3, no compelling reason why. Futureproof? What?

When - USB 3.1. Certainly, support for this will happen... when? USB 3.0 is still new. It seems, they still can't make a bulletproof USB 3.0 hub. Is that device connected? Now it's not. USB 2.0 doesn't have that issue. When 3.0 gets ironed out, then 3.1 might be ready for it's trials. The Type-C connector takes the place of one 3.0 on the DM.

Why - DDR4 Only for size. Not a factor in my decision. If you are going to say it saves power over DDR3, in these beasts, leave now. High performance is not for you. When will performance gains come... again, next xM model.

Why - PCIe x4 two times. I don't plan on using PCIe, it's not there yet, x4 once or twice, irrelevant to me. Give me one of the 960GB SanDisk Extreme Pros that Bigspin has for the OS and not worry about thermal throttling = win/win. Until the price is right, my 480GB SanDisk Extreme II will be alright in third place. Those eye catching PCIe sequential numbers are meaningless in an OS environment. The M.2 slots will be better served as storage for me... in the future.

TL;DR Lots of new tech in the DM. Lot's of questions. Time will answer them. I didn't want to wait.

 

lol

 

Nice that if it will have thunderbolt port (hopefully with full PCIe support).
Maybe I can finally go eGPU route. Desktop GPU with desktop CPU and ability to "undock" for portability is something I wanted for very long time.

 

well finally, now thats an exemplary application to use that thunderbolt port for would surely be interesting to play around with eGPU options. im guessing those will increase in popularity these upcoming years, especially now that everything in mobile hardware is going the soldered route...

 

Alienware graphics amplifier is a good one (as eGPU solution). Shame that CPU on these AW is quite awful soldered no-option.
4K, ultrawidescreen and VR gaming are quite stressful on GPU and I'd rather relax my TDP/cooling requirements when I am at my desk, 980M is ok but just barely adequate (with a lot of heat/noise).

 

i wouldnt really say that the 980M is either hot or noise-intensive...right the opposite actually. its basically a rare thing for it to break 70C in my case, even when oced to the absolute max.
but true, for 4K gaming and VR ull need something way more powerful.
as for the AW graphics amplifier, doesnt that use a proprietary connection? i dont think u can just use it with any thunderbolt system....but anyone's welcome to correct me if im wrong

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Yes, AW uses proprietary connection - but it was specifically designed to connect external GPU so works somewhat better than thunderbolt (e.g. its less fiddly on how you must power up, etc) - they probably also did appropriate support on main platform hardware & BIOS to ensure eGPU works well when PC goes to sleep, etc.
Probably it could be done with Thunderbolt too, just that no manufacturer yet specifically cared about making laptop with seamless eGPU-over-Thunderbolt experience (it works, but fiddly).

 

Alienware now have the 4790K in the 2015 AW 18. I guess somebody opened their eyes

 

Hopefully they will bring desktop option to 15" lineup too. Buying massive 18" laptop with SLI kind of goes contrary to whole reason I want eGPU - to have relatively portable laptop with less powerful graphics, which becomes desktop-like while docked.

 

Just found out that next week P750DM will be available on mysn.se. Going to order but not sure which graphic card I should buy, or I just wait another month for 990M, decisions....

 

nice, so then it should also be available in the rest of europe as well

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Sager/clevo have you covered though

 

Here's the latest, if you guys are wanting the 17" 4K continue to hold off, because Sharp the Manufacturer of the 17" displays are behind in production. The 4K 17" should be available before Christmas. For me it's going to be worth the wait. Also be on the look out for Samsung's new PM953 M.2 SSD up to 960GB this is enterprise version of the SM951. Should be very interesting. The new Skylake is going to be tricky to Delid :/ I wish someone sold these that were repasted save me the time and hassle.

**Here's my suggestion go with a cheap or decent graphics card now, then upgrade to Nivida's Pascal when it comes out, it will draw far less power and give you better battery life.

Also I should mention the majority of Clevo's product line will be getting Skylake
Who's ready for Pascal?

Hopefully the recent shift in markets don't offset Clevo as they are publicly traded. We need them to keep going strong.

And Let's hope the DM has HDCP 2.2 built into the HDMI 2.0 ports. Not all HDMI 2.0 ports support HDCP 2.2.

There is no such thing as Future Proofing a Laptop, but there is Future Resistant Laptops

 

I would imagine the AUO 17.3" 4K would be an option.

http://www.auo.com/?sn=107&lang=en-US&c=10&n=1794

 

Possible... (great find by the way), but Clevo has already made their bulk 4K 17" order with Sharp so now we wait a little longer...

If the suspense is killing you guys email an editor from DigiTimes they are plugged into this market, and demand them to do a story on Sharp's 4K 17" displays. They have the internal ties with Sharp and Sharp leakers they should be able to provide us with an ETA when they do their story.

 

Compared to Haswell, delidding Skylake is little bit easy due to lack of FIVR. I always use razor blade method.

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Great point though some reports suggest it may be a little more trickier for those who prefer the vice method as the wafer is thinner. So some may need to consider the blade or another method, perhaps blade with a little heat gun love.

 

I use hair drier. Glue will become soft when IHS is hot, so effectively making it easy for blade.

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With the package being thinner I think the vice method is now a REALLY bad idea, with the lack of surface mount caps on the top the razer methed or string method are best.

 

How much thinner? You mean the P750DM chassis compared to the P750ZM, or are you referring to the size of the CPU?

 

He's referring to CPU board.

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skylake left, haswell right. also notice how the IHS is more massive with skylake, it weighs 4g more (26 vs. 22 on haswell)



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Man still no news on the NA end about release times but what can you do but be patient. Waiting for the 990m will be your best bet btw. Personally im awaiting the prices on those new cards and if too high ill settle for the 970m or 980m with option to upgrade it later on.

 

lets just check and see first what the 990M will bring to the table and if the batman models will even support it...still too much mystery about that gpu!

 

Yes I'm concerned with the 990 power draw. I'm going to confidently go with 980 and then pascal because the power req for pascal will drop significantly. @MichaelKnight what do you mean NA? @jaybee83 thanks for the pictures of the CPU. I meant to post this link earlier but here's a great article that talks about some of the risks of delidding Skylake as opposed to previous gen CPU's. http://www.anandtech.com/show/9505/skylake-cpu-package-analysis

Did anyone get a chance to email Digitimes to inquire about Sharps 17" 4K display? I have I'm hoping a few more people so they will do some investigative journalism and see if they can get us a time frame on when the 4K 17" display will be available.

*Update The DM should be available for U.S companies by late Sept. / early Oct at the very soonest. Some additional time may be needed for testing, marketing etc.. before launch. Also be prepared for some delays due to shortages. Skylake for example is a pretty hot product. Though we should see a few units ship in November. But one thing is for sure it will be exciting to wait a little longer : )

 

NA= North American region but you said sept 1st many will offer such as sager ? Thats a nice date tbh It will sit well in the competitive market if thats the case. Also from what I read other skylake desktop chips are on the way also. The 6600 and 6700 non k specifically according to new egg and amazon in NA

 

Prema, you little rascal, you!

@Dr.DM: good job thus far in building a nice cozy DM batcave here

 

@ProFX gets banned and returns as @Dr.DM. Gotcha.

 

gets banned or just changed his username maybe...? but interesting nonetheless, now that u mention it

 

Nope, check OP

 

Im seriously considering the 17inch more and more can't wait to see those prices. For people in EU regions what is the price difference for you comparing the lowest zm configuration to the lowest DM configuration?

 

17" will truly be a beauty. imagine Pure 4K on 17". Here's how I would equip my bat belt. For a baseline I would have Phone, Surface Pro 4 for mobility and on the go, and then... Everyone needs that a secret special weapon, and that is where the DM will come into play. The EU regions I don't believe have released their pricing for the DM and the 17" 4K isn't available yet.. but I suspect it becoming available anytime between Dec. - Feb 1st. It will be worth the wait. The price should be perhaps an additional $200 speculatively up from a 15" 4k. So in the mean time get a Surface Pro 4 with Skylake, then get ready for the DM : ) They'll make a great pair


For those of you that have a 4K have you tried downloading raw 4K video footage? Can't wait!

 

I want the 15" version but I am concerned about its weight, it might be difficult carrying it around college.

 

Take your current laptop and put it in your bag with something that would make it about the same weight as the 15 inch model (probably 7.5 pounds like the other one, right?). Walk around a bit and see if it is manageable. That might give you an idea if it would be a concern I suppose.

 

I can carry around my current laptop but when I have carry a big book with it, it becomes a problem.
Batman 2.0 is just so damn tempting....

 

There is always the beefy PSU option with the 990M and get the 330W brick that will more than cover you, but it should not be required for stock I would imagine.

The nuclear option is the power splitter and two 330W bricks of course