*** Official Clevo P75xDM and P77xDM/Sager NP9758-G and NP9778-G "Batman 2.0" Owner's Lounge ***

Linux with a modern nVidia card will generally need nomodeset passed to GRUB to block the open source driver that doesn't work with the cards otherwise it will black screen

Mint seems to work the best in my experience. You'll likely need to add the edgers PPA - http://www.binarytides.com/install-nvidia-drivers-ubuntu-14-04/

 

nVidia is really wonderful these days aren't they?

 

Its always been like that with laptops. You almost always have to do an initial boot mod with an nVidia card that hasn't been out at least two years.

 

Sager won't make any announcements until NDAs are up, and generally won't share a date either.

 

They're already up on Mythlogic anyway though. https://www.mythlogic.com/2015_Models/deimos1615s.php

 

Hey, hey, hey - don't dismiss the W230SD, please. It's a very powerful machine, in a very small form factor. Size isn't everything.

 

W230Sx does have some girth, I'll give it that!

 

Well, my biology teacher two years ago said to a class full of boys, that it's neither size nor girth, but it's technique and skill that matters... And she blushed.

 

"It ain't about the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean."

 

There are sometimes shortcuts on the drivers, especially hotkey. I tried to get XP (virtual machine in Win 7 couldn't get some of my old games to start at the time) dual booting on my 2011 P170HM and could never get full functionality even after days of tinkering and modding my own nvidia driver. Clevo said XP drivers would be easy but they didn't want to (which is fair given that the likely audience would have been approximately 1).

 

The software may be using fuctions only supported under 7 and onwards. XP was written in a different era of hardware interfacing.

 

Can't even put these two systems on one level:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...38-owners-lounge.748242/page-308#post-9990181

 

Sorry for probably dumb question. But, what is NDA you mean? If DM use i7-6700k and i5-6600k that were launched in august and 980M.

 

Non-Disclosure Agreement. Basically, "you need to know this because business but we don't want anybody else knowing this, so you're not allowed to disclose information about it, and if you do, we're killing your contract and you can suck salt".

If you're so skilled that your services are quite literally without equal however, nobody would bother punishing you for small NDA slips. What's worse, have someone who's essential to a system be left out of the loop (business hurt) or have the masses get 1% info every now and then by accident? =D

^ it'll be denied that stuff happens by everybody ever under a NDA, but let's be honest... it does happen. A lot. I've seen it before too with varying companies.

 

I believe his question was more along the lines of, "why would Sager in particular still be under an NDA", considering that not only has Clevo itself disclosed a basic set of system specifications on their on pages, but other retailers like Mythlogic and RJ Tech have also exposed some information and pre-order pages.

 

Because as large Clevo Partner they have indeed to sign NDAs. After all they move a large number of units, so whatever they say and do has an impact on the market.
Clevo themselves can do whatever they want with their own IP as long as they keep Intel/nvidia etc NDAs.
Smaller companies in US/EU usually purchase through one of the large importer and don't have direct NDAs with Clevo. Also NDA time-frames differ from region to region.

If everyone would adhere to their NDA or at least the courtesy of the trade, this thread wouldn't even exist, yet.

Some leaks are good leaks in a sense that they help the company. e.g. something that makes people wanna wait for a product instead of purchasing something else from another company. Other leaks can even destroy a company. e.g. when a unique product idea or a certain chosen technological path becomes public too early it gives the competition enough time to react and plan their own products accordingly.

 

But Prema, Aftershock has already officially started selling the P7XXDMs (although the units haven't reached the customers yet) - does it have a different NDA? And how come Asian and American vendors are bound by different NDAs, if so? Why would Clevo want to open up the sale in some places but not others? The American/European market for Clevo is much bigger than that in Singapore - doesn't really make sense. Care to explain?

 

I couldn't state when a specific NDA runs out for a specific region/dealer or their relationship with Clevo, those things only they will know.
But generally Asian countries have another 'moral attitude' towards these things as they simply don't take priority in the face of other more serious life challenges...after all the things we are talking about here are more of the 'first world problems' nature:

 

I'm sure I explained this in another thread but information gets easilly lost and this is a complicated topic.

Why are Asian and American vendors bound by different Intel NDAs? No one knows, I could hypothesise but that wouldn't serve any purpose but to increase speculation. It means that countries in Asia (that's a bit general so let's say that China and surrounding countries, Singapore, Australia probably and so on) are allowed to offer for sale models before the rest of the world. Europe and N/S America continent have to wait and we are still not allowed to sell the mobile Skylake models yet. So it's nothing to do with Clevo, it is purely the CPU NDA.

NOTE that I used the phrase "allowed to sell", it doesn't mean that they will ship to customers earlier, or receive stock earlier - it just means that they are allowed to take orders earlier.

I can't go into any more details, but I hope that this explains the situation a little more clearly. In Europe and N/S America we are working off different NDA dates, we don't understand why but that's the way it is:-( Finally, as has been alluded to, the launch dates for mobile Skylake are different so there are a number of factors to take into account, depending on the laptop model being offered, location it is being offered in etc etc. In Europe and the Americas it is still not allowed to offer anything apart from the DM models for sale, because of the CPU socket.

 

Eurocom seems to have put pages up.

"SkyX6" is probably the P770DM.
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(1,332,0)ec

"SkyX4" is probably the P750DM.
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(1,331,0)ec

Launch dates for both are listed as October 9.
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/productlib(2)ec

 

Now you're just nit-picking for no reason. They're both "weak" (aka entry-level gaming machines) - that one is weaker than the other doesn't change that, nor does it change the point of my post. And yes, I most certainly can put them on whatever level I feel like, as they're both beneath the cut-off I set for this specific post. Levels are arbitrary. A Clevo P650SG is more powerful than a Clevo P650SE, yet compared to something like a Eurocom Panther, I'd put them on the same level (i.e mid-high range).

EDIT: Is a 300lbs fat man lighter than a 400lbs fat man? Most certainly. Are they both obese? You betcha.

 

Unless you're "The Rock"

 

Good point sir.

 

Their pricing is interesting. There is almost no difference between the two machines for the same specs.

Another interesting find is on Mythlogic's site.

https://www.mythlogic.com/2015_Models/phobos1715s.php

Notice it says 204-pin SODIMM?

 

Huh? My post wasn't even related to the point that they are both weaker systems.
(that is the reason why I excluded that from my quote and only included the relevant part towards it was targeted).
It was to make another point...being BGA CPU + GPU re-branding has lead us backwards performance wise. A one year older system with an 'older' GPU (GTX860M) shows 30% better performance then the suppose to be 'latest and greatest' (BGA & GTX960M).

The benchmark compares a 2014 W230SS (not SD) with a 2015 AW13.

 

Not without reason. That's where you are somewhat mis-informed. The W230SS/D, at least, isn't weak. the GTX 860/960M + i7-4710MQ aren't entry-level specs - if I can play GTA V on very high (read: near max) settings at 60 FPS or TW3 at high settings at 45 FPS, that sure as heck isn't entry-level. That isn't weak. I know you guys are used to 60FPS (or maybe more if you have a screen with > 60 Hz refresh rate) + max/ultra settings, but that's the point - they are the maximum possible settings. And dismissing anything lower than absolutely max as entry-level is something I would expect of PCmasterrace-hurr-durr-I-got-GTX-TitanX-SLI desktop users, not laptoppers. We ought to give lower-spec stuff a chance.

 

Well of course. The AW13 uses a ULV CPU, while the Clevo uses a MQ CPU. The MP CPU performs better than the HQ version does.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9332022

That's my M5 Pro (Clevo P650SE) score. Notice how the physics score is lower than than of the Clevo W230SD.

HQ CPUs are known to perform worse than HQ (and ULV obviously).

And I disagree that about leading us "backwards in performance" as it pertains to this situation (ULV vs MQ). Yes, HQ vs MQ is going backwards. But ULV vs MQ is completely different - ULV is intended to conserve power and provide lower heat, noise and increased battery life. It's a CPU for ultrabooks (which begs the question as to why it was included on a "gaming" notebook). The older GPU isn't showing better performance - the 47w MQ CPU is posting better numbers than the 15w ULV CPU. Which is entirely expected.

I lumped both these machines into my "weak" category, but they're in fact (as you pointed out) two different beasts.

 

I'm not at all misinformed. In fact, having owned many machines of various specs, I'd say I'm well-informed. As far as I (and I'm sure many others) are concerned, a GTX 960M is an entry-level gaming card. That's where I classify it.

Now you may disagree, and you have your own reasons for it, and that's fine. I'm sure there are those who feel an i5 + GTX 950M is entry-level.

One big difference is that the 960M pulls those numbers, but its stretched to its limits. The 970M does that without breaking a sweat. The 980M says "I think I may have computed something back there". That to me is the difference between entry/mid/high levels in GPUs.

Point is, your entry level is different from mine is different from his.

 

That's unfortunate, and sorry to say but terribly narrow-minded. I say again - this is the mentality I expect from desktop users used to nothing but the best.

I used to own a laptop with a 240M, then a 525M, and then got the one in my sig last year. If the 960M is entry-level, then what'd you call those GPUs, and the 920M? Or good old Intel HD Iris Pro? Not even GPUs, I suppose?

And this is partly why games like Witcher 3 run like crap on mid-range systems. Everyone assumes all gamers have the best specs on the planet and don't bother optimising them for mid-range systems. Or maybe they think that such systems don't even exist.

Rockstar Games, on the other hand, had a good release.

 

I do agree there is a somewhat "elitist" attitude around here. If you buy anything less than a i7-4820 + GTX 980M you're not a serious gamer, or you're cheaping out, etc. is a common thread. I had a AW15 with a i5-4210H + GTX 965M, and it was perfectly suitable for my needs. I put a Xeon E3-1271 instead of a 4790K and a 970M instead of a 980M in my Batman 1.0 and it was more than enough. But I'm sure some were wondering how you could possibly live with anything other than a maxed-out machine.

In the context of a gaming notebook, in 2015? I'd say yes, not even on the radar.

That being said, you aren't new to these forums. What I posted is something you see/hear often here. It shouldn't surprise you. Not to mention this is a thread about the Batman - desktop CPU + high-end GPU. The type of person in here isn't one who would even consider a GTX 960M.

If you go over to other forums/threads, you'll probably find plenty of people who consider the GTX 960M to be more than suitable.

It's like cars. Hop on over to the Hummer forums, and I'm sure nobody will seriously give a second thought to gas mileage, while in the Toyota Prius forums, it's probably a major consideration.

 

Well, not everyone can afford several thousand dollars on a laptop in one go - they may not have the means (or like me, still dependent on a working adult).

All I'll say is that running CoD:Black Ops at 20 FPS on a 240M is a humbling experience. One has to see and play it to believe it.

New to the Batman forums, yes, but not really new to NBR. I usually hang around the W230SS and SD forums where all we mid-rangers huddle together. And yes, what you say is indeed new to me - I've seen several more persons around with 5/6-year-old machines.

 

No, even here are persons who know that a GTX 960M could be more than suitable. A 960M/860M/950M/850M (its all the same) has around 1/4 of the processing power of a 980M. That might seem slow, but compared to a 920M its still 10 times faster. And thats why these cards are midrange.

In the end these midrange cards deliver more or less the same speed, if you just disable some demanding features like high quality shadows.

 

Well, the Batman is essentially a desktop, so in here, you'll get "that" kind of mentality. Extreme over-clockers, enthusiasts, hardcore gamers, people who need 64GB of RAM,etc.

You'll get weird looks if you even mention putting a GTX 960M in the Batman.

 

Who on earth needs 64GB of RAM? Even X-Plane 10 at near-max settings takes up no more than 12 GB on my system. Do you guys run high-volume servers or something out of your laptops?

Furthermore, one needn't have the best specs to be a hardcore gamer. As I mentioned earlier - what if one hasn't got the means?

Extreme over-clockers or enthusiasts - that I understand, because of my love of aviation (I'd rather an F-22 than a Cessna - obviously).

Once again, coming from a 240M (CoD:BO runs at 20 FPS on medium settings), one would have a more mellow view on computers. I had an old MacBook (white 2007 polycarbonate) with a GMA 3100. Guess what - it ran CoD4 quite well. And I enjoyed it. Still have it, but the hard drive's dead.

Back to the Batman, then. We've gone off-topic long enough.

 

Oh, any card is suitable, it all depends on your needs/uses. I don't have a GTX 980M because I wouldn't see any benefit from it, given the games I play and how often I upgrade my laptops.

A year or two ago, when the most demanding game I played was Diablo 3, a 960M was just fine. Then I started to want to try things like Dragon Age Inquisition, Shadows of Mordor, etc. and the 960M was just barely cutting it.

Just pick the GPU that best suits your needs really. Not everybody "needs" a 980M SLI setup.

 

I thought that myself, but apparently certain applications do need it. Heck, I use 8GB of RAM and its plenty.

Like many things in life, once you get a taste of a gaming on a high-end machine, you find it hard to settle for less.

 

lol

 

I put a pre-order in with powernotebooks.

Specs are:

CPU - i6700k
Ram - 8gb DDR4 (I'll upgrade to 16gb on my own...cheaper)
HDD/SSD - 1tb hd (I'll add a Samsung sm951 256gb myself)
GPU - Nvidia GTX 980m
LCD - 1920x1080 IPS panel (4k is too demanding)
The rest - standard stuff

Total - $2019.00 plus about $320 for upgrades

I'm told it should go into production around the 25th...it's going to be called the NP9758.

 

64GB really cuts down render times for motion graphics, video, much better than 32GB.

 

That's funny, it's not even listed on their site but I'm assuming you just called them and asked? Almost makes me wonder why everyone didn't just put it up a few weeks ago like the other NA resellers did just so they could start taking pre-orders. Welcome to the Batman club! I can't wait to get mine as well, should be fun

 

wiltedjoint
nice, congrats! was it a G-Sync model? how much was the 4K LCD option, did it support G-Sync?)

 

Pretty close. Search for some of my posts, you'll see some of my requirements. Somewhere in there is a post where I think "movie" was pining for 128GB of RAM.

This isn't meant to be a dig, but an observation... A lot of the posters cannot see past their gaming and do not realize the Clevo based DTRs are used in a lot of business / programming circles as well.

 

No, it depends on height and more importantly body type/build. If BMI was the only metric for obesity, half the guys in the NBA and 90% of the guys in the NFL would be "obese". A 7-foot basketball player like prime Shaq or Wilt Chamberlain can easily be 300+ lbs, but they're not obese, they're athletic freaks of nature.

Spoiler

The two guys around Ahnold are both 7+ foot 300-400 lbs, the difference being that the one on the left is one of the most athletic human beings to ever walk the planet while the one on the right is a tub of lard.

 

I went through Donald @ powernotebooks with this.

 

I'm not sure what the difference was for the 4k but it wasn't cost that made me choose...it was performance. Even a GTX 980m will bog down on current games at that resolution.

I was told that the panel I chose was gsync.

 

And the P870DM is still under construction (SkyX8)

http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(1,336,0)ec

 

You'll notice I specifically said "a 300lbs fat man vs a 400lbs fat man". Meaning I'd already specified the body type - both are fat. I purposefully added "fat" after both because I anticipated someone would come along with your exact comment.

But man, they both make Arnold look like an ant.

 

Probably won't see that one til late October early November.

 

You don't think NFL offensive linemen are fat?

 

Yeah can't wait to see how the chassis looks.