*** Official Clevo P65xSA/SE/SG / Sager NP8650/51/52 Owner´s Lounge ***

Guys I need your help, thoughts and suggestions please..

I'm choosing between two laptops right now.

Customize ZeusBook Edge X6 100 Gaming Laptop Gaming Notebook with the 256gb apotop SSD, internal optical drive and ac7260 wifi upgrade = $1280+ with tax

vs

Sager NP8651 / Clevo P650SE - Ultimate Clevo, Sager, Gaming Laptops, 3rd Generation Intel Core i7 - LPC Digital with win 8.1 upgrade around $1300+ no tax

My budget is actually only $1250-1300 ish. The only game that I actually play a lot is Dota 2. I dont usually travel, its mostly a home laptop. My current laptop is in my sig below.

 

Given that a travel-friendly system is a requirement for me, I think I'm stuck with planned obsolescence no matter what :/

 

Hey folks,

before you are buying ...I have the cheapest reseller for the whole eu I think for you. The reseller is one de. I bought a notebook 2 years ago and everything went without a problem. Here is the link for the P650SE (only SE available):

www. one. de/shop/product_info. php?cPath=203&product_id=11509

 

Well yea, there's that...

So for you it makes sense. A little thinner and a few pounds lighter than the NP8268, and (I'm guessing) more affordable than the even thinner and lighter systems from Gigabyte or MSI. And you could forgo the M.2 drives for now and drop in a pair of 7mm, 2.5" SSD drives. Since that size offers the most bang for the buck, at the moment.

 

Anyone know how hard it will be to reach the secondary ram slots?

 

Shouldn't be too difficult. I've been a tech for a long time and worked on Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, Asus and Lenovo, and the only notebook I've ever worked on that had a keyboard that was difficult to remove was the Lenovo L412, and that was only because Lenovo had it glued down with some ferociously sticky double-sided tape. I'm not kidding! That stuff makes Duck tape look like Post-It notes.

Usually it's only a screw or two on the bottom and a few tabs around the edges of the keyboard. Just be careful not to kink the keyboard ribbon cable(s) and you should be fine. There's probably already someone with a tear down on the web.

 

Yes, yes it does. No other way could I get an under 1 inch thick 970m for under $1500.

If you find one, please do share it here!

 

And I've been nearly 100% travel for my work for the last dozen years.

So given this, why is the industry so focused on slim? Why aren't they more focused on depth?

Depth is the notebook killer, especially in sub-30" (sub-76cm) seat pitch on airplanes. I'd rather have more thickness than depth. In fact, let me expand on this a bit, like I did years ago on why 16:10 and 16:9 didn't get more popular, sooner, for notebooks.

How about ...
- 1" (non-gaming) and 2" (gaming) thick * 7" deep * over 16" wide (25-51x178x460mm)
- 15.6" panel of 21:9 aspect of 2560x1080 resolution

What's that break down to in an user experience?
- Like a 10.1" deep "netbook" ... but 17.3" wide "desktop replacement notebook"
- Near anamorphic 2.35 movie aspect ratio at 15.6", while still providing nearly 12" for 16:9 1080p (335 pixels cut from each side)

But even some more interesting aspects ...
- Full width keyboard, like a 17.3" "desktop replacement" notebook -- e.g., even "reuse" existing 17.3" keyboards
- 1-2" depth means components can be completely under the keyboard -- e.g., easier to design, possibly cool to the sides (instead of down)
- More room for battery -- e.g., also easier to design, given more commodity Li-Ion cells (should be cheaper)
- Reduced height in panel means its support can be less, as its less flexible versus a 8-10" 'tall' panel, saving on weight

The only negative I can see with this is the smaller touchpad, like a lot of 10.1" notebooks.

I mean, why is the industry so adverse to this? Many of us have carried 7" (thin) wide, but 14"+ (legal) tall physical "portfolios" and "traveler's notebooks." I've never understood why the industry is so addicted to massive depth, to reduce thinness or width.

BTW, Toshiba released a 14.4", 1792x768, 21:9 aspect notebook a couple of years back. Given the "perfect resolution" for 2560x1080 at the aspect, which still allows a perfect 1080 at 16:9 (albeit more narrow for the display), I'm surprised we haven't seen it.

Especially for those of us stuck on long flights, and not always in Business or First Class.

I could easily see a marketing campaign where someone with their "thin, silver, 'cool' notebook" gets crushed by someone reclining in front of them. Caption: "Why are thin laptops with tall screens somehow cool?" (person continues to agonize) "You've gotta work, but you need power and real-estate. Introducing the ultra-wide, full Hollywood anamorphic aspect, but lightweight 'Portfolio.' It's full power that doesn't skimp on anything ... except unnecessary depth" (another crunch a few seats over) "that you don't want when you travel."

 

Well not personally a fan of your ultra wide but short display idea, but at the same time these companies need to start thinking about catering to niche markets. Your idea I am guessing only 1-3% of users would really care for. However 1-3% of 100 million is still 1-3 million, and there are a lot more than 100 million laptop users. Making a perfect laptop that everyone in a niche market wants can mean you have no competition.

I do somewhat agree on the thickness though. I don't want 2", but 25-35mm is more than adequate there is no need to shave it down to 20mm sacrificing lots of internal options and ruining the cooling system.

What I want to see most is thinner bezels, there are plenty of narrow bezel desktop monitors (some as low as 6-7mm), and a couple laptops at 9-11mm bezels. But the average laptop is closer to 22mm bezels. Most could nearly go up an entire screen size bracket without changing their form factor (as in from 14.1" to 15.6" without changing their case).

Ah well maybe in 3-5 years when this laptop gives out.

 

i understand budget restrictions, my friend! so i really hope ull get the ram and ssd urself as aftermarket upgrades, since system builders/resellers always want a premium price for it

@teardown: just check the notebookcheck review pictures, u can clearly see there that removing the keyboard aint that big of a deal

abaolutely agree with this post in every aspect! changing from 16:10 to 16:9 was already "weird, to say the least, since the display got longer and thinner. when i first saw 21:9 aspect ratio displays i thought to myself: cmon, how much thinner/longer do they want to go?!?! at some point its just getting ridiculous. whats gonna be the endgame here, 50:9? 100:9? just stop already!

as for the thickness: going from 45mm on my p150hm to 29mm on the p651sg is gonna be worlds apart without sacrificing performance, pretty cool if u ask me!

and yes, thinner bezels!!! how hard could it be, seriously?! even in the smartphone area theyre able to make 5mm thin devices but STILL havent managed to produce a bezel-less phone! i guess they just wanna advance a tenth mm at a time to milk each gen for what its worth (and then some), so typical

 

interesting info: just saw on the mysn website that the SG (980m) version comes with a differently designed backplate and thats why its thicker than the SE. lets hope the backplate isnt the only thing thats thicker!

 

Actually no bezel is extremely hard, screens require the information (in the form of electricity) to be sent to the pixels over WIRES they are just incredibly thin a few newer technologies have managed to have these attach only at the top and bottom, or possibly even only on 1 side. In general you do need them to come from all sides of the screen. However while the difference in difficulty is enourmous between no bezel to 5mm bezel, and large between 5mm to 9mm bezel. After that it just isn't that hard. There is no good reason to have 20mm+ bezels anymore.

 

just checked the xotic website, is there any plans for them to come out with the 8652?

 

I believe someone from xoticpc mentioned later this month they should have it up, once the sager site has it up it usually follows over to XoticPC shortly after.

 

don't forget that the ps650sg is an affordable 980M laptop (even for 4Gig of Vram which is more than enough, since all game, even those cheap ps4 ports seems to run quite good in FHD (cd lord of the fallen)), they have a business to run with gt72, and P150SM why will they put on preorder the 980M version now ? I mean regarding my reseller, i was just about to pay for that p150SM 980Mgtx when I saw that they put the P650sg preorder online

 

Please elaborate since we're heading into 2015. I haven't read D2's Vram guide but I've been hearing a lot of complaints about 4gb being undermined with 6 being the sweet spot and 8 being the future proofing for at least another year or 2 given w/ the latest requirements w/ games settings etc, or are you meaning enough for just running in less than ultra settings etc?

Serious question and NOT trolling, I just like to hear more on this from people. I'm buying a new laptop and want it to last for at LEAST 3 years (minimum) before having to think of replacing it. I'd rather ask now then regret later, and believe you me lol I'm reading everything I can find, however with regards to the SME's this forum is still the best for information vs random websites.

Being a soldered GPU, I wouldn't want a 3k+ purchase biting me in the ************* a year down the line. It's hard to predict but then again it's based on needs, so I'm sure you can see the hair splitting decisions/confusion lol...

 

Retailers like PowerNotebooks and XioticPC do not list their panels for the Sager NP8651 as IPS. Is this a mistake or are they really not IPS displays? It's a deal maker or breaker for me so I must know.

 

@LunaP: well as ive mentioned before, in the end it REALLY depends on your ACTUAL, realistic usage for the next three years. are you planning to play every newly released game on max settings? for the next three years? in that case, go for the max. config u can get and go for an MXM based gpu. id recommend (if u can wait a bit longer) to wait for the P7xxZM series with desktop cpu and single MXM gpu should be presented to the public before the holidays, so sometime in december.
otherwise, if ure like me and only do some gaming here and there if time allows, but otherwise use the laptop mainly to work (biotech area), watch movies and surf the net, then u should be more than fine with the P67xSx series

important thing here is to be honest to urself, and not just WANT the absolute and very best even though u dont really need or use it on an everyday basis

afaik the P6xxSx series come with IPS panels, period. at least thats what all system builders and resellers offer, which ive seen so far. safest thing to do is of course contact the shops directly, especially since the two you mentioned are known for their kind customer service

 

For PC games 3 or 4GB should be plenty (heck, even 2GB should work). The problem is with the ports for next gen console games. Some of them eat up VRAM like it's popcorn, and there's no good reason for it. It's just bad coding, but it seems to be an ugly trend that's likely to get worse as more and more games get ported. A few are already using 6GB, which is beyond the capacity of the soldered GPU chips.

In a world of properly written games, 4GB would be plenty even for 4K game play. Unfortunately that's not the world we live in.

Keep in mind, though, that this is only really important if absolutely MUST play your ALL games at maxed out settings. If you can still happily game with a few settings turned down on some titles, then it's all good.

 

Don't forget to mention gamse that allocate Vram without using it !!! (hey lord of the fallen).
4 Gb Vram is the standard for high end desktop gaming card so games optimised a minimum should work like a charm. 3gb of Vram should be more than enough for Ultra+high texture.


Stop with that, AND if the 4gb are full, with a bandwith of 5000mhz it should be once again with a minimum of optimisation (using LOD for objects that are not in the player's sight for instance) not a problem. For games that uses 6Gb of Vram in the same time : it's absurd, because a ps4 with its 1.84Tflops won't do much with that (light+physic on 6gb of textures....) : it's a scam or some fixed UHD textures are used to drop the jaw of console players. So please stop tormenting people who aren't familiar with that and won't find a difference between 8 and 4 gig (not you cellular-Decay, some people in general).

Here you go : http://gamegpu.ru/тест-gpu/action-/-fps-/-tps/ 4072 is MORE THAN ENOUGH for new engines like UE4, Cryengine 3.5 and frostbite games. SO in the future that will still be the case !

 

Actually, we should all try very hard to forget about those. Bad coding should not be rewarded.

 

Evolve uses 4.5GB
Mordor uses 4-6GB
Lords of the Fallen uses 4-6GB
Titanfall uses over 4GB

I'm certain the upcoming release titles like Far Cry 4, Witcher 3, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Rainbox Six Siege, Arkham Knight, Star Wars Battlefront, The Division among others won't be too light on the vRAM usage.

I don't doubt games will be easily playable with 3-4GB vRAM, but titles released in the next year you may have to dial down the settings a bit even if the card can handle it, due to vRAM restrictions. That being said, I'm still considering the P650 with 970m or 980m. It's just odd that Clevo is the only one that isn't offering the larger vRAM sizes when in the past they were the first to offer 8GB vRAM on the 880m. That may be the only benefit of the 880m, lol.

 

For all budget-conscious buyers I have a really good deal found


Clevo P650SE:

- i7 4710 HQ
- 16 GB RAM
- 970M with 3 GB vRam
- Killer 1525 Wireless Card
- 500 GB hard drive
- 250 GB Plextor M2 SSD

And everything for only 1323€ !!! Thats about 1035 GBP !!!

XMX Gaming Notebook K56-4M by: XMX - XMX Gaming Shop

 

But only german keyboard lay-out?

 

Yeah thats correct but maybe you can write a mail to them and they will build you a notebook with U.S. keyboard etc. ?


BTW: You can preorder the Clevo P670SE now too.....with international keyboards and eu guarantee


DevilTech - High Performance Systems-_Fragbook #

 

They use the same name as One.de, are they the same shop ? Do you have any review site for these shops ? I don't mind review in German. I am really tempted at this price

 

P670sg..? When will it be available.?

 

As I know they use the same "support-system" as one.de ... so the service quality should be okay!

I am sorry but I really dont know! Why dont you write them an e-mail?

 

PC Specialist has a TN FHD screen on theirs:

CHIMEI INNOLUX N156HGE-LA1 Overview - Panelook.com

 

Hmm it will be 7th of december .. only 1 or 2 weeks after the gtx980m will be released for the p650. I think i will wait a few more weeks then..

 

Evolve uses 4.5GB
Mordor uses 4-6GB
Lords of the Fallen uses 4-6GB
Titanfall uses over 4GB


titanFall and Fallen they precache Vram.
Evolve runs perfectly with 4Gig (ie : benchmark of the BETA : less optimized)
Mordor is a poorely optimized port

Star wars battlefront 3 won't use more than 4gb mark my word : since it's inspired by battledield, and the biggest map on Naval strike need 2gig of Vram in FHD...

 

They ARE offering larger VRAM sizes, just not with this model because it uses a soldered GPU. The models with the MXM GPU cards have the higher VRAM.

If you want more VRAM, get the NP8268 (Clevo P150SM):
NEW! NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 970M with 6GB GDDR5!
NEW! NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 980M with 8GB GDDR5!

 

I just wrote an email to them and got their response after 30 min. Apparently they have only German KB, delivery fee to EU is around 40€, and the delivery time will be around the last week of November. Very tempting. Thank you for your information.

 

This. Slim to a point without going overboard, and focus on getting the footprint smaller, starting by slimming down the bezels.

I prefer the taller screen (I am disappointed that 16:10 has all but disappeared from the laptop market) because I can see more of the document or file I'm working on, and don't care about watching movies in 17:9 FHD. Wider does allow better side-by-side viewing, so there's tradeoffs, but I would avoid buying a long narrow screen.

 

The price of the 1TB Samsung 840 EVo is currently at about £300 on Amazon, and many of the resellers are offering it for about the same price (sometime even just less) configured in the machine already. Also I don't really know what I'm doing on the insdie of laptops. I've heard it's easy but I'd still have no idea how to replace the standard HDD.

 

But the ones who will pay the most money -- i.e., highest mark-up. A good mark-up on a notebook and make it worth building 1 for every 10 "consumer" notebook.

If you only ship M.2 slots and limit memory, 20mm is probably doable. But if you want 2.5" bays, more memory, let alone a decent, discrete GPU, you're likely going over 1". Although the wider design might help keep it closer to 1". However, with a high-end GPU, probably closer to 1.5"+.

I paid the extra 15-20% or so that MythLogic wanted precisely because I wanted to make sure it's all tested and cooling is adequately done. I trust an OEM that builds dozens a day than myself who assembles/modifies one per year or two.

But neither Mythlogic nor XoticPC is chargine 2x like Dell, HP and others when it comes to upgrades and add-ons. So it's worth it in my book to just get the components with the unit.

Go back to the day of 4:3 and the panels were really tall! I've seen no less than a half-dozen MacBooks and PCs crushed on planes. Again, for those of us who travel, thinner but deep is definitely not better.

Ever see one turned 90 degrees?

There are different design requirements. Also remember, despite Intel's marketing to the contrary, ARM and x86 are completely different on heat, effiiciency, etc...

Obviously you guys don't fly much, or always get Business/First Class.

That's why I have external panels that are rotated 90 degrees. In fact ...

Have you ever had three (3) 21:9 monitors rotated 90 degrees?
Nice 2560 pixel down, 3 x 1080 across. Now that's great for documentation!

 

Norwegian store just updowndated their batteries to 4-cell....

Guess it's true, trolls do come from norway..

 

The difference is that you can always upgrade the SSD in the future, but not the GPU card. And trust me, replace the SSD/HDD is the easiest thing to do on a laptop, you can learn it quickly by watching Youtube videos.

There are also many other reasons to choose the GPU upgrade over the SSD. First, the GPU offers a lot more in performance than the SSD. Second, SSD prices tend to drop a lot over time, so with a little patience, you may get a good deal on the SSD in the future.

In short, choosing the GPU over the SSD is a no brainer choice.

 

Thanks for doing this. The price is unbelievably tempting, if they had an English keyboard I'd be on it straight away.

Alright I appreciate the help mate. Will look into getting the 980M version, however kind of want to see a few reviews to see how the cooling is, even though I've heard the GPU cooling is very good. Would a intel i7 4710 CPU not bottleneck a 980M in some games? I kind of don't want a more powerful CPU as not only the cost will increase but I've heard the P650XX struggles with CPU cooling.

 

Your welcome!

 

u forget that the price u see in the configurators of the resellers/system builders is not the SSD price per se, but actually the price to UPGRADE from the stock storage option to that SSD. so if stock is a 500GB hdd and that costs like 50 bucks, ure actually paying 350 bucks (thus +300) and not 300 for the ssd

and yeah, if given the choice of gpu vs storage upgrade at the same price, always go for the gpu!

 

Just quick OT add ...

Here's a review of the Google Nexus 9 ...
- Google Nexus 9 review: A powerful tablet made for everyone | PCWorld

As the article points out, the 4+1 32-bit ARM Holdings K1 core design in the $299/399 (16/32GB) nVidia Shield Tablet outclasses the dual-core 64-bit nVidia K1 core design in the $399/479 (16/32GB) Google Nexus 9. Now that's CPU-wise. On the GPU-front, they're not really comparable as the Nexus 9 is about the same PPI wide, but has far more pixels down because it's 4:3 aspect.

Still, I'm going to hold my strong recommendation for the 8" nVidia Shield Tablet because it has a MicroSD slot (upto 128GB) which makes adding a quality UHS-1 64GB for $30 a no-brainer in the $299 model. Only pop for the $399 model if you need unlocked LTE ($399 -- works on T-mobile just fine, even though AT&T is bundled), otherwise consider WiFi tether. It's still stock Google Play Store. It has the speakers, the killer battery life and other benefits.

Lastly, if you look at the CPU graphic, one has to note something very interesting.

It's surprising how well the year-old Amazon Kindle Fire HDX 7 still competes with it CPU-wise in those benchmarks, and still has a decent Adreno 330 GPU (even if it's not going to beat the K1's GPU). At only $179 for Amazon Prime members (I actually got mine for $159 way back in February), the 7" Fire HDX is really a no-brainer if you're an Amazon Prime customer. If you absolute want the Google Play Store, then it's not of course, but Amazon's usability, solid updates and good app control is why I love it. I've had lots of issues with Google's stock apps on my Nexus 7 and phones, so I prefer Amazon's update approach and QA in comparison.

I.e., I still carry a Nexus 4 as my primary Google Play Store device (my Nexus 7 sits at home), I don't auto-update it, but I use my Kindle Fire HDX far more. I've had to factory reset the former, but never the latter, over the last 9 months. As long as you like the Amazon approach and tablet design (I do), it's definitely way up there on usability and stability compared to the Nexus 7 in my experience.

 

Nice, thanx for asking

I think i will wait for the first reviews come out with both cards. Maybe i will get the GTX980M with second hand SSD/M.2 + Memory (RAM). Most have life time guarantee, so should be fine to purchase 2nd hand..

CPU: i7
GPU:GTX970M/GTX980M
RAM: 16GB Crucial
SSD/m.2 lextor M.2 128GB Or Crucial MX100 256GB + HDD (If HDD is possible with one SSD)
HDD: From old laptop (500GB)
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-7260
15,6 inch Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen

Price with 970M + SSD: € 1425
Price with 970M + M.2: € 1435

Price with 980M + SSD: € 1732
Price with 980M + M.2:: € 1742

Or will there be cheaper configurations.? Maybe 8GB of RAM is enough for gaming, that would be € 62 cheaper.
I have now a PackerdBell Easynote TJ76, will the HDD fit.?

Prices above are not 2nd hand RAM/SSD. So it could be cheaper

 

There are allegedly co-inventors of USB, but I wouldn't claim to be one if I was them.

Intel and Microsoft designed USB to get it on the shelf and beat out alternatives. It was literally dumb wires and a dumb controller, virtually no functions and end-devices had to have all of the intelligence. It took a good 3 years for those devices to come out, and when they did, early USB devices "fought" on the same bus. That was quickly solved by just adding more OHCIs into the southbridge (so more, single ports on their own controller), so each device had its "own" bus.

And the rest is history.

Ironically BSD/Darwin (MacOS X) and GNU/Linux have far, far better USB stacks built-in because you don't have vendor drivers "fighting." They figure out the device IDs, the variants, etc... and it's easier for OEMs to just add the little information to the existing drivers in the kernels. With Windows, you have a whole world of 3rd party "value-add" in driver licensing**, which is why it's a nightmare at times with USB devices under Windows.

Although Microsoft is getting better and better at putting "generic" drivers in NT so you don't have to deal with the vendor variations and conflicts, Microsoft has long relied on IHVs to do this, whereas Darwin and Linux have built complete subsystems with most everything needed. And this is largely because, after a decade of the non-sense, most of the OEMs are at the point they prefer to just modify the Darwin and Linux drivers, instead of having to deal with the Windows ecosystem of lacking subsystems and having to license (and re-license upon every Windows change) from some 3rd party.**

Microsoft even encouraged this "value-add" ecosystem, which is now backfiring in NT6.

Thank Bruce Parens at HP for staring that trend in the IHV space, it's just way easier to support Linux by putting drivers in the Upstream, and it trickles down to everything -- no vendor conflicts, everyone agrees on the base driver, IDs and variants are simple edits. BSD and Linux feed off each other in this space, and Apple benefits too (and can focus on the subsystems and usability -- Jobs was a genius with NeXT).

It used to be common superstore hardware was full of one-off, single Windows release hardware and peripherals, but that's no longer the case. I've bought stuff now, plugged it into a MacBook and even PC notebook running Linux, and it's "just worked." Boot back into Windows and I'm loading drivers, which aren't often available via Windows Update, let alone the driver doesn't work for my specific Windows revision and/or there is an updated on on the vendor's site because of such differences.

**NOTE: If you've ever wondered why you have to pay money to get an updated driver for a different or newer OS for your all-in-one printer, this is why. The OEM has licensed the software from a 3rd party, whereas Mac and Linux leverages a lot of open source subsystems that are generic. I.e., don't get me started on TWAIN (vendor-specific APIs/interfaces, because Windows doesn't provide them) v. SANE (universal w/network printing built-in) and NT Spooler v. CUPS (Common UNIX Printing System -- guess who bough it? Apple!). It's also made worse by the fact that Microsoft's new subsystems in NT6 aren't well supported, unlike TWAIN. Then there's the non-sense of GDI rendering, when everyone else uses Postscript (which CUPS provides in software "for free" to existing PCL et al. and solves countless network printing issues), etc...

Or Intel wanted to avoid having to pay the royalties they agreed to with Apple for IEEE 1394. Apple really did its due-dillegence with FireWire and involved the IEEE so it was an extremely intelligent bus with a full, peer-command set. Anyone who has driven other devices on the bus from one FireWire peer knows what I'm talking about. It also address power and duplex as well.

Today, if we had Thunderbolt on PC notebooks, we'd have all sorts of options for everything from universal docking stations to high-speed NAND dongles. But, alas, we don't. Why? For the same reasons as FireWire. It requires Intel to actually put the logic in the chipsets and support in the drivers. And Intel has not, so it's not commodity.

 

I would note that a couple people on these forums just got the Gigabyte p35x v3, as it is the direct competitor for these notebooks (thin 15.6" with 980m option) it might be worth checking out their impressions. I already ordered the Clevo and don't plan to change, but I admit the Gigabyte looks very tempting if they fixed a few things like the keyboard flex.

 

The PCI express storage would swing it for me, it's just so fast.

 

And I purposefully left that PCIe4 slot open, for one thing the options to make use of it are really expensive, also I hope within a year or so we get ones that truly take advantage of it to the fullest (maybe 4+ times the speed of SATA SSDs.) Right now I will survive with only going from a crappy 5400 rpm HDD to a rather nice 840 EVO SSD.

 

Which is why it's so disappointing that ONFI never got anywhere back in the mid-to-late '00s. A direct interconnect into the PCIe, with its own command-management (NVMe today), was always needed.

NAND read throughput has virtually always had the ability to exceed SATA interconnect. But NAND's primary advantage has always been its latency. Command queuing and other things has always been poorly "hacked" to SATA/AHCI, resulting in additional latency. Most people have just never realized it because any SSD technology is going to destroy spindle seek. However, for those of us who have done embedded designs with NOR and NAND connected almost directly to the system interconnect, it's really horrendous to go through the SATA/AHCI interface.

Now NAND write performance, especially with various DRAM buffering and other approaches in the unit, has only been addressed more and more thorugh various techniques. NAND writes are much slower than DRAM, and there's virtually always errors in any NAND cell modify (long story). Over time those have been addressed, and in ways that increase longevity through rotation, without requiring a dedicated file system designed specifically for NAND and NOR (e.g., Linux JFFS-series).

 

Thanks for putting THAT worry in my head!

PC Specialist doesn't resell Sager, though, so we can't use that to know for sure.

I called Sager's technical support, but they weren't able to tell me anything more than glossy vs matte!

 

guys it takes 7 minutes to change a screen for a ips one (they cost 76-100USD), normally they use IPS matte B156HAN01.2 but some retailers use TN panels. Personnally I have an IPS glossy ready to be installed because i don't want MATTE