*** Official Clevo P65xSA/SE/SG / Sager NP8650/51/52 Owner´s Lounge ***

Dang, is there anyway to tell before placing the order?

 

Samsung = PLS, cheaper (+~140€ than standard FHD)

Sharp = IPS, Igzo, pricier (+~240€ than standard FHD)

Better ask before placing an order.

 

XOTICPC SAGER NP8651 Video Review

 

Just ordered the Samsung LTN156HL01, I hope the install tutorial is up before I get it from China, I think it probably will be.

 

I don't understand why sager is taking so long to put up the SG model? And also why is the staging website so much better looking then the actual sager website?

 

So.. it's seriously non-functional? I thought there'd at least be contacts and then traces on the mobo to connect it to a controller that's also connected to the M.2 slot...That's disappointing.

 

Played shadow of mordor for about an hour, I could not make the gpu break 60 degrees celcius

 

You look through all these Sager threads and people are talking about swapping panels or how horrible the stock TN panel is. Why would Sager not respond with a better LCD? What is this 2004? If this seems to be one of the biggest complaints why not fix it? There is an abundance of options on the market, almost all major players have switched from TN or at least offer some sort of 1080 IPS panel. They now run the risk of people damaging their laptops while doing the swap, not only that they could pass on the cost to the consumer for a better LCD. Doesn't make sense to me and I am seriously considering just getting the MSI for the sake of making a point.

 

mySN offer an IPS 1080p option with the XMG P505.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

We need some more US options, though. Eurocom seems to be the only one, but they also want $100+ to remove the silly branding. I won't be placing my order until mid-December. I hope there will be more US resellers with 1080p IPS options by then.

Cakefish, are you planning to use Windows 8.1 or 7 with that 4K panel? I primarily use 7 and, while I would love the extra screen space when not gaming, I'm concerned everything will look way too small.

 

It is not horrible, just not as good as IPS panel. I am currently using TN panel and I can live with it. I don't believe it will ever burn a hole through my eyes.

The fact is that there are plenty of enthusiasts who are willing to DIY and there are also slackers like me that don't bother change anything beyond stock spec.

 

Did you ask your reseller if it really was a LTN156HL01 ? Alibaba/ebay is full of compatible screens, just saying

 

You're not a slacker. I don't like to change anything stock either.

Time is money and I'd rather just order what I needed from the get-go and even get an extended warranty from the OEM. I'll still upgrade the storage in the future when higher densities/faster storage devices come out, but I order what is available from the OEM when I purchase.

 

Because ... they are still probably testing it, maybe even dealing with yield, cooling or those last, little manufacturing issues? Yes, the SE and SG are almost the same, but there are always small differences.

Don't know what to tell you other than to say things don't happen overnight.

Because they have a new design they haven't fully flushed out and not all pages may have been updated with it or have slight issues?

Again, don't know what to tell you than to say things don't happen overnight.

 

As long as you're approaching 10A, I'd say you're fine with +19-20VDC. Voltage regulators these days are very tolerant, and we've come a long way from the '90s. Still, the whole +20VDC is a legacy holdover from the pre-battery generation computer (had to be plugged in).

Spoiler

I'm still wondering when the industry will start looking more towards +24VDC and ship 5/10 cell batteries. A 5-cell would provide +18VDC on battery, but needs +21VDC to charge, hence +24VDC. +24VDC is a very standard line, and usually provided in external lighting and local/nearby shared grids external to buildings and complexes. It's also still considered a "safe" voltage, even DC.

I won't go into the related +36/42VDC for autos, especially as it's a perfect multiplier for a series of 10 Li-Ion cells.

Then again we're still using [email protected] max via USB to charge a lot of things that clearly should be +12VDC. I'm surprised more and more tablet manufacturers aren't offering a secondary +12VDC connection option to charge, even if they still have the primary USB charge option, but that too is another story.

In any case, no power design I've seen to date has been worse than the original, 1st Gen XBox 360 with +12VDC@26A. Although some of the tablets are getting close to being as bad these days to having an inadequate charging voltage+current.

That's to be expected. It's very likely a basic Intel reference uEFI firmware design for the 80 series chipset. The more basic and reference, the more universal support, especially with uEFI, which is easily screwed up by so many OEMs who go out-of-spec *cough*Lenovo*cough*.

Spoiler

E.g., uEFI network boot is currently my pet-peeve with a lot of manufacturers.
I.e., people like myself never use local media or even USB to install OS, and haven't since the '90s.

I really hate to fall back to 16-bit PC BIOS emulation when fully 64-bit uEFI and the option to use GUID Partition Table (GPT) disk label and the EFI System Partition (ESP) is available. This is especially the case when dual-booting with Windows. The FAT filesystem ESP is where everyone puts their boot files, and no one plays games all trying to install and use a single Master Boot Record (MBR). The ESP can also hold the EFI shell, which is great for debugging when something won't boot or even assisting with OS installation prep or even recovery. But most importantly for Windows, with GPT, Microsoft puts all me ta-data for booting and system information in a 128MiB (32MiB if under 16GiB), designated Microsoft Reserved (MSR) partition.

Previously, for legacy PC BIOS/MS-DOS / Master Boot Record (MBR) disk labels and boot, Microsoft used undocumented, "hidden" sectors of a hard drive, usually in the first (right after the first, leading MBR sector(s)) and last 1MiB of the drive, but many times that was not sufficient, and they'd just use in all sorts of areas, anything that wasn't partitioned for Windows. That was fine if you used the built-in partitioning tools of Windows, as it would prevent you from overwriting, or even relocating, those hidden sectors when resizing or creating new partitions. But not outside.

Intel, along with Apple (the first OEM to use uEFI, although only 32-bit at first), put an end to that with uEFI and the designated MSR partition. It has always been an extremely poor practice to use such, without designating a partition, which is why I always create a MSR partition, in addition to the ESP, on any disk with a GPT disk label. It only takes up 128MiB (0.125GiB) to reserve it.

With everyone agreeing on the first 128 partitions in GPT disk labels (there's actually no limit, but 128 is the universally agreed upon in implementations), there's no reason not to have partitions created for anything. Under legacy BIOS/MBR, Microsoft only officially supported 7 usable partitions (3 primary + 1 primary/extended -> 4 logical), although many OSes allowed >4 logicals in extended, and even more than one primary as an extended. Even late Windows releases recognized several of these combinations, even if their commands didn't let a sysadmin many of them.

Now if more manufacturers and firmware developers would implement more uEFI components in their firmware, let alone would install the EFI shell in the ESP by default. Then again, I think Microsoft has a bit to do with the latter not happening, especially for anything with SecureBoot and how difficult OEMs make it to get to the firmware outside of the Windows facilities to boot into it (don't get me started).

Which means they just put the ACPI sequencing/command in the firmware, instead of waiting for the WMI software to come up and do so.

Unless the program is using some undocumented support and only a proprietary program will work as the API to control it is not available via ACPI. But even the latter is eventually reverse engineered and put into some document regarding WMI by hackers.

Spoiler

The nice thing about going with Whitebox manufacturers, like Clevo, is that they stay pretty standard, hence why major Tier-2 OEMs use them for non-Windows OSes. E.g., System76 who is the OEM for Canonical (Ubuntu) as many of my colleagues have their systems, which are almost all Clevos too

The only Tier-1 OEM who is pretty much Linux compatible out-of-the-box, or in short-order, is Lenovo, as IBM runs way too many open source platforms internally. Red Hat employees also get Lenovos. Of course, Lenovo "gets creative" with some of their uEFI firmware, for various needs (including for Linux), and sometimes there can be issues with how they do things differently than spec.

All good stuff. Thanx for these details as I'm always into this stuff.

 

i dont really get why some of you are so intense pointing on the TN Panels....
how are you working or gaming? sitting not in front of your screen? if you need to play a game 45° of the center of the screen, buy yourself a good 27" screen...

i will go with the tn (17" doesnt even have the option to choose)
as i am only sometimes gaming, and more working 10 to 12 hours a day with that notebook, i am totally fine with TN...

FHD is suffiecient for me too, as i work with 2 external displays in my office with 2.5k (and that is already horrible for the eyes, because of Windows scaleing and my software doesnt allow me to set bigger fonts (like 125% from Windows)

If i want to do some photo-editing, i use my mac with very good support for 4k!

 

Nbkit.com eBay account

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

It's a average to below average TN panel that's why, nothing against TN panels but they could have done much better with what they went with.
It's good there are options to upgrade too but the stock panel is nothing special and if your spending this much money on a laptop average to below average quality does not cut it.

 

Has anyone in the US ordered from mySN in the UK before? I really like the finish on the P651SE better but I'm worried about what my support options would be?


Thanks,

Scott

 

The finish doesnt make up for all the extra you're gonna pay IMO.

 

Clevo based builds are already being put up for preorders. Sager doesn't do anything majorally different. I'm saying why can't they hurry and put up for preorders also. Obviously they have the specs prices in mind and pictures already

 

Looks like I'll have to repaste...

 

Amazon UK is selling Windows 8.1 Pro for £37.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00FRAE7I4

 

wow, tons of bashing going on here about different display options

updating the OP with the Xotic Video review

 

It's been lowered to £34.99, at least when I saw it... and it's Full Retail version, not OEM or System Builder! The conversion works out to $56.92 USD, and they let me order it and have it delivered free to a US address, so... I hope it's legit!

Thanks for the tip!

Edit: cancel that, it's for a key only, with digital delivery... and I don't trust those types of sales - not unless it comes with an actual certificate of authenticity. Plus there's plenty of places to get just a key for around that price here in the US

 

Actually Amazon sell it for £37. Now they are out of stock but you can pre order it. I was one of the last few people who manage to buy it before stock run out. Select the seller when you buy. Other sellers are sometimes key only.

edit: OK now you can't preorder it. Amazon actually not selling that item anymore. Lol..lucky me

 

Hey guys, need your help cause I can't find an answer, what do you think about the GS60 compared to the P650SE? (P505 from XMG) The prices are pretty similiar here for both but I honestly don't know what to choose. Most important thing for me is the build quality/temperatures/screen bezel size to be honest but I do like that the GS60 is thinner and lighter. As far as I know the temperatures on the P650SE are noticeably better than the GS60 correct? Been at this all week and I still can't decide!

 

Higher temps and louder fans on the GS60.
Cooler temps and stock TN panel is OK but nothing special.

 

Thanks for your reply, the one I was thinking of getting (XMG P505) had a 1080p IPS panel, so I assume it will be better.

 

Not to go too off topic but which RAM would be best? Newegg has some good deals right now. I have always gone with Mushkin but seems I have two options given the current pricing. I have always went with 1.5v to avoid issues. Can the Sager NP8651/52 take 1.35v from the Gskill without issues? I plan on dropping 32GB into it if I go with Sager.

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 16GB (2 x 8G) 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Laptop Memory Model 997067 - Newegg.com

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Laptop Memory Model F3-1600C9S-8GRSL - Newegg.com

Thanks!

 

Yea, I'm looking at this one:
G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB (4 x 8G) 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3L 2133 Laptop Memory Model F3-2133C11Q-32GRSL - Newegg.com

No deals on it as far as I can tell. Yet.

 

So I think I've settled on getting the NP8651, I just need to decide on component selection. I'm aiming to keep the final price under $1600 (not counting any shipping or tax). Based on the near-universal praise for the 4K Sharp screen, I'm thinking of going with that, although it puts a dent in my budget. At least that way I won't have to deal with replacing the screen myself. I will probably stick with 8GB RAM for now, and upgrade that on my own. I'm also considering drive options, and am torn between leaving the 1TB HDD and adding in a 256GB SSD later on, or just replacing the HDD with a ~500GB SSD right away. I thought about swapping the HDD out myself, but the cheapest option Xotic has is the Crucial MX100 512GB for $190, but it lists for $210 on Amazon and Newegg, so getting it with the laptop is actually cheaper. At least I can get Windows 8.1 for free through my university, so I don't have to worry about an OS.

For the more experienced DIY'ers out there, is it ok to just plug in an extra 8GB RAM later on, or should I replace the existing RAM as well so it is all the same brand? And does anyone have any recommendations for storage options? I need at least 500GB total storage, and would like at least 250GB of SSD storage.

Also, does anyone know what kind of deals the resellers like Xotic or Powernotebooks typically run for Black Friday? I've seen things saying they generally have some sort of special, but can't find the details from past years. Is it usually specials on certain models, or blanket deals on most/all computers? Is there flat discounts (X dollars off of your purchase), or is it things like free upgrades? I'll most likely be ordering on Black Friday, and the deals might influence my decision. Knowing what kind of stuff to expect ahead of time would be helpful.

 

It's not fair that people from the US pays 15% less, then people in the EU.

What are the cheapest prices in the US inc. Taxes (+21%) and shipping (Netherlands).? No HDD/SSD and ram if possible. 1080p screen. SE+GE prices please cheap as possible setup.

Thanx

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HTC One met Tapatalk

 

You mean rampant consumerism in the US, dominated by lack of tariffs, and double-smacked by outsourcing, inversion and other things?

 

Indeed! If you're looking to stick with the stock, auto-configured, JEDEC-compliant DDR3L-1600 and fastest CAS 9 (9-9-9-28) cycle timing from the SPD on-DIMM at the default 1.35V, that G.Skill memory set right there is the cheapest and best you're going to find.

 

You keep mentioning JEDEC compliance... what can you tell me about this Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3L-1600 9-9-9-24 RAM?

 

Wasn't there a reseller offering an IPS 1080p?

Otherwise ... it's really about viewing angle. I travel and work a lot with people around that I don't care to have viewing my screen (I'll use a projector otherwise, I have a travel size 2600 lumens 768p projector for such), so I don't mind the viewing angle issues with TN. However, in gaming, brightness does matter though. IPS definitely has the best colors, by far.

You can get 2x4GB for now, and upgrade to 16GB (another 2x4GB) later.

As far as "same brand," don't worry about that. The SPD ICs on SO-DIMMs today do a very good job of synchronizing and timing well, as long as you're not overclocking. In all honesty if you have DDR3-1600 with CAS 9 timing (9-9-9-27 or similar), you're going to get some of the best performance, which is virtually the same timing (DRAM latency) as a lot of DDR3-2133 with CAS 11 timing (11-11-11-33+). Lesser expensive memory will be DDR3-1600 CAS 11 timing (11-11-11-33+).

Keep several things in mind here, in the P65xSE, you have ...

A) (2) M.2 slots,

and ...

B) (2) 2.5"x7mm bays (although only 1 if you use a 9.5mm high**)

You can always add M.2 and/or 2.5" storage in the future. Although make sure the 2.5" drives are 7mm high, and not 9.5mm high, if you get a spindle**, or you're stuck with only 1. Confirm with the reseller on any spindle's height**.

**Looks like XoticPC is only shipping 9.5mm high spindles, so it takes up the whole 2.5" bay in the P65xSE.

Remember, that's +$190 to upgrade from their default 2.5" spindle drive.

I see really 2 options for you.

1) As you considered prior, upgrade the default 2.5" platter to a 512GB MX100 (which will ensure you can add a 2nd 2.5" SSD)

or

2) Add a small (128GB) M.2 NAND to the resellers included platter and have them install Windows to it. It will boot and run Windows fast, all while you can use the platter to install Steam, locate your swap file, TEMP/TMP variables, etc... to keep the number of writes to the NAND lower. You can also use the platter to backup Windows too.

I don't see many Black Friday specials on these products, maybe a poorly selling one at best. XoticPC and others are running some Black Friday-type discounts and free upgrades, which may be good deals overall.

 

Intel SRT is seriously a gigantic hack, I can't believe Windows still doesn't have a better option available. It requires specific hardware (not all Intel platforms are supported), kernel driver, and can only use 64GB of SSD. It may work decent enough, but the 64GB limit is so arbitrary, and requiring custom hardware for it is ridiculous.

Meanwhile, Linux has 3 competing technologies for SSD caching, all of which work better than SRT. (Linux supremacy!)

Also, RE: Black Friday, XoticPC has been running a Black November sale. Try to customize the notebook to see the deals at the top of the page. You won't see any real discounts on the notebooks anywhere. I'm not positive, but I believe Sager forces them into a contract not to sell the laptop for cheaper than $xxxx. This is why you see resellers throwing free stuff at you to get you to buy from them, instead of dropping the price of the notebook.

 

Which is probably a "loose phrase."

What I mean by that is the module doesn't have speeds/timings quoted that are outside of the JEDEC specs and, more importantly, don't rely on over-volting to achieve. Ultimately, either the engineering spec sheet or someone with the actual module to verify the information reported by the SPD on the DIMM, would be the ultimate verification.

A lot of DIMMs listed on NewEgg, especially for desktops, have speeds/timings/voltage so outta JEDEC compliance, that most people will find they run a lot slower when they insert them into their systems. It's far less common with notebook SO-DIMMs, as board tolerances and available power (with over-volting in a portable system, there is always the chance of insufficient current, which causes voltage drop back) are far more limited.

Overall request to read DRAM latency is slightly better than the G.Skill, which has 9-9-9-28 timings. I haven't seen a Crucial module that didn't quote their actual specifications that their SPDs will when plugged in. Most G.Skills are like this too, although there are a few exceptions to the rule (usually a "speed" that is not standardized by JEDEC).

 

for those of you who bought the Schenker XMG P505 Pro, what was the default RAM that came with it? Brand, voltage, etc

 

Thanks.

That's good to know about the RAM. That will make upgrading easier later on.

For storage, I was mostly considering replacing the HDD drive because a Crucial MX100 512 GB is the same price as an MX550 256 GB M.2, so I'd get twice as much SSD space, and I won't need over 500 GB in the immediate future. If I need more, I can slot in another SSD later. But going with the 1 TB HDD and 256 GB SSD would mean I'd probably never have to worry about raw storage, and would only need to upgrade if I wanted more SSD space. Also, keeping the HDD would let me omit the SSD initially, and try to find a better deal on one somewhere else. It seems like the 256 GB version of the M550 is sold out on both Amazon and Newegg; is there any other good 256 GB M.2 SSD options for under $200?

 

Anyone one moving or has moved up from a P150EM know if the 180w PSU will work with the 650S*?

 

I strongly recommend getting the 7mm SATA drive before going for an M.2 drive. The performance of M.2 drives is rather poor compared to the full sized SATA drives. Some of them lack DRAM cache entirely, which really really hurts performance in many real life workloads. Also, the 840 Evo 512gb is $20 more than the MX100 512gb, so I'd definitely go for the 840 Evo.

And, don't order the SSD thru XoticPC. Unless you just want to support them by giving them free money. It seems $20 cheaper, but that's excluding the 1TB HDD you'd get for free, which is worth $70-80. Get it and put it in a desktop/NAS, or sell it on ebay.

 

Omit the HDD too if you can, and buy your own 7mm 1TB HDD: TOSHIBA MQ02ABF100 1TB 5400 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" Internal Notebook Hard Drive Bare Drive - Newegg.com

It should. They're both 19V, 5.5mm/2.5mm connectors.

 

deleted

 

Will a m.2 satadrive work on the m.2 pcie side? Or does the m.2 have to be pcie based on that side?

 

There's three M.2 slots in the notebook. One is taken by the wlan card, and I believe is PCIe only. Then, there's a PCIe/SATA combination slot (so SATA or PCIe), then there's a SATA only slot. So you can put an M.2 SATA drive in the combination slot.

 

Thanks! That was what I was looking for!

 

Is there any documentation for this claim? i.e. real world test benchmarks? The advertised numbers are identical, at least for the Crucial M550...

The slot for the WLAN card has the A key, meaning it cannot be used for most consumer PCIe or SATA storage (unless maybe someone makes an A-keyed 2230 device...). There is also an M-keyed slot, which can be used for PCIe x4, PCIe x2, or SATA storage. The final slot is keyed B, and is for (according to the manual) either SATA-only storage or 3G/LTE cards. Apparently if you have the M-keyed slot occupied by a PCIe x4 device, then you cannot have a SATA drive in the B-key slot.

 

Thanks. That's probably what I'll do then. With the 4K screen, 8GB RAM, and 1 TB HDD, the price comes in just under $1,500. Figure $230 for the SSD, and about $50 for 8GB RAM, and it comes in a little over what I was planning to spend, but if I sell the HDD, it's not too bad.