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    HTWingNut's Sager NP7330 / Clevo W230ST REVIEW

    Discussion in 'Sager/Clevo Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by HTWingNut, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    Exactly. 750M and 768p match perfectly. I don't care about full HD and don't game that much. And yes i'm done.

    And getting a bigger battery is indeed a solution, albeit biaised, since i'm green and also care about power at the wall, so i can't approve :)
     
  2. frewster

    frewster Notebook Consultant

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    Sorry for sounding a bit hostile. It's been too long of a day...

    Good luck with your N550. :)
     
  3. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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  4. Ebi

    Ebi Newbie

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    First of all, thank you HTWingNut for those awesome reviews.

    second, i need some quick help by any expert that might be able to help.
    IDK if this is the place to ask for these questions but i am abit frustrated after some hours of googlin &... so pardon me if its not the right place.

    I'm abit new to all these Clevo [barebones?!] laptops & stuff, & I am trying to buy exactly this very same build as it seems [Clevo model W230st]
    It all started when i saw "EON13-S Pro" model on OriginPC website, then dug my way to here, lol.

    The part i need help is some guidance about why there are some weird & very different options on some of these "re-brand" companies (?) that i don't get. i narrowed down my options to these 2 :

    Sager - np7330
    LPC Digital
    Eon13-S pro
    Origin PC

    For almost the ideal [except CPU] custom build i made on both of those site, the difference goes near ~500$ !!! i can see that OriginPC is more in the fashion & boutique style but still, that's a huge difference. so my wonders are these if anyone can help :

    1. Processors : The 4700MQ & 4800MQ models on OriginPC has 18 $ difference while its 185 $ difference on LPC, why ?!? no jokes, 18$.

    2. FP : There is no Fingerprint sensor, Right ? OriginPC declare it has one !! what the $%#& !

    3. Design/Color : OriginPC website said no "paint job" available, but the pics on galleries of those 2 sites seems too much different, its just the angles & lights, RIGHT ? or they actually do paint it alittle ? lol

    4. Where to buy ? Any other site you suggest ? is LPC a known/safe site as i think it is ? they won't delay for 9999 dayz ? average delivery time is near a week ?
    What OriginPC delivers that might worth 300~500$ more ?! [beside a brand on the laptop & a 18$ CPU boost ! & no, i don't need any 24.7 support call or any kind of customer service at all!]. A power user would best describe me as i am not technically a geek at computers.

    I would really appreciate any help. & any new suggestion [similar laptops?] are welcome if you think i am on the (very) wrong track or something spending this much $$.

    Sry for the long post.

    ~ peAce
     
  5. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Considering $1069 is the starting price at LPC and $1475 at OriginPC, I don't think the CPU is much of a sticking point unless you absolutely need the VT-d, vPRO, or TXT, stick with the 4700. Even go with the 4702MQ if you want a cooler running system at the sacrifice of some computing performance. For gaming the 4702MQ or 4700MQ will be perfectly fine.

    LPC is very safe. I've purchased my last several laptops from there, and they also have been supplying the review samples for my reviews here at NBR. The turnaround time from them is same for any other Sager reseller. Larry @ LPC is very knowledgeable and very helpful.
     
  6. ryajso

    ryajso Notebook Consultant

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    I just tried a clean install of windows 7 but am having a hard time finding drivers, can anyone who is running windows 7 on their w230st and has got everything running smoothly please upload the drivers somewhere, thanks
     
  7. kondor999

    kondor999 Notebook Consultant

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    Sounds like rationalization to me. "I don't care because, uh, I don't have it!". Yes, he's right. You are a troll, I'm afraid.

    Regarding "power at the wall", I'd stop worrying about a slightly large notebook battery, and start with all those coal-fired Chinese power plants helping to pump out...Lenovo's.

     
  8. kondor999

    kondor999 Notebook Consultant

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    Glad you liked the concept. I went ahead and posted that pic on the poll thread as well. One rather quick expedient to consider is simply having a second battery. If I did any significant traveling, I'd certainly do that. But it's a much less elegant solution.

    I'm quite sure that Clevo knows as much or more than other brands with regard to battery life (unlike what has been suggested by one, rather idiosyncratic, poster), but they're beholden to the laws of physics as much as anyone else. This is a quite powerful CPU/dGPU combo and the battery was clearly chosen to provide the minimum acceptable capacity while simultaneously maintaining the W230ST's most obvious competitive advantage: Its small size for this level of performance.

    That's not evidence of ignorance with regard to designing a machine with good battery life. That's what we call a design decision. :)

    I'm quite sure that if we had a dual-core and a GPU with half the shaders, we'd get significantly more battery life. But then, the W230ST would be just like any number of mediocre offerings from HP, Dell, Lenovo and the like.

     
  9. xanthian

    xanthian Notebook Guru

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    I'm noticing that while XTU is persisting settings between reboots, it's pushing my cpu right back to stock settings after suspend-to-ram.

    Anyone have any suggestions?
     
  10. lastnikita

    lastnikita Notebook Deity

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    True !

    Are you kidding ? SSD are of course much faster to wake up (or go into) sleep mode. Assuming you're talking about deep sleep / hibernate.
    Because you can't compare S3 sleep and turning off your laptop, S3 sleep won't stand for 2 days without taking the battery down.
    And a laptop which is shut down won't consume anything near 3W from the wall, yes ?

    It's irrelevant, since he was talking about idle autonomy.
    The guy has a point, clevo sucks at power optimization. Doesn't mean his notebook is better, it's just another 15 incher with poor specs and resolution, but we can't fight on the battery life ground =)

    Well, maybe they know as much, but then they just don't care for their launches. They usually improve it a bit over time..
    Compare idle power draws with other laptops with similar specs, even with larger screens, and you'll understand.
    Hell, even Acer does a much (much) better job at it.
     
  11. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    The gpu is not the same class for sure, poor specs lol, you're kiddin' right, better sound, better design and two fans cooling. I guess it depends on ur priorities, as for idle power consumption it's the same on full HD IPS version of the N550JV :

    Review Asus N550JV-CN201H Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

    Well, end of discussion, that's not the point of this thread, i was just trolling u a little, don't take it the wrong way :)

    Other than that, i noticed u guys are playing a lot with XTU, it's cool to see undervolting back in the place but XTU is not exactly well thought to switch fast between profiles, not to mention settings go back to stock as soon as you put your lap in sleep mode. I didn't exactly test the thing with turbo on since i deactivated it, but at 2,4 ghz stock clocks with -130mv on cpu, the lap went from 50W to 39W with all 4 cores stressed. That's pretty amazing.

    Any tips to switch between profiles via a bat file or else ????

    Hope there will be other better thought and lighter softwares that will support haswell undervolting :)
     
  12. xanthian

    xanthian Notebook Guru

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    I'm scratching my head trying to find the overclocking thread that Wingnut wrote/I hallucinated him writing.

    Aaanyway, I was going to add some contributions of the weird things I'd noticed, so I guess I'll just paste them here. I suspect a few of these are incomplete truths.

    - Be very vigilant of what power management events can roflstomp your XTU settings. Mine are reset on suspend to ram. Others have reported that poweroff events reset theirs. I can't find a fix or an understanding of this issue.
    - If you're trying for performance, put the laptop in performance mode. Speedstep CPU speed changes from balanced or powersave mode cause instability. (Ignore the screenshots; for the stability on the ragged edge, you want all 4 core speeds to be identical.) My -132mv clock requires winding back to -120mv in order to run at powersave mode. (And actually, runs at 135mv with all 4 cores locked to 35x.)
    - Make sure the battery is fully charged, or strange things will happen. (Intel XTU clocks to 3.5ghz, Prime95 does not) [I haven't had time to verify this, but it was the only difference between 3.5ghz prime95 and 3.2ghz prime95 on my setup]
    - The 28 seconds in the 'Turbo Boost Power Time Window' works as advertised. It lets you exceed the 47 watt TDP to the short power max level for the duration.
    - Except for the above scenario, where the window refused to kick in. (Again, I suspect it was directly related to battery charge, but haven't yet confirmed the root cause.)
     

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  13. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    If you find it / will it into being, I'd be interested to have a read. I got the 4702 CPU and I figure even though it already runs cooler, why not add a few minutes to my battery life? Also, it sounds like it's a good idea to undervolt / overclock the GPU as well, and I have zero experience in that area. I'm a Computer Person, sure, but I'd rather have a step-by-step HOWTO to follow than go in blind and figure it out for myself. I may have skills, but I lack tinkering time...
     
  14. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    Well, for now i export xtu profiles and then opened them directly to gain a little time but that's not entirely satisfying.
     

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  15. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    How is the 4702 with temperatures for something like Prime95 using large FFT? Free Software - GIMPS
     
  16. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    TBH we've been planning a vacation so the only use my system has gotten so far is to book hotels :D Well, I *did* at least launch XCom just to see how purdy the screen looks, but I haven't gotten to do proper benchmarks or actually *play* anything. I think we're almost done, so I should have a little more "me time" soon.
     
  17. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Understood. No worries. Hope you end up having fun on your vacation.
     
  18. Rooy

    Rooy Notebook Enthusiast

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    I realize that future games might be better optimized for the quadcores and all that, but I've been thinking about how the W230ST would work with a dualcore. I know that a whole lot of people game on I5s in their PCs, but I'm clueless about the performance of the mobile dualcores. Maybe I'm misjudging the performance of this thing, but shouldn't a I7-4600m work well from a pure gaming standpoint?
     
  19. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    There arent any 4th gen i5 yet so we cant really compare vs 4th gen i7.
    The reason some people use i5 instead is you can get a little faster clock speed per core vs an i7 but for games that use the extra threads the i7 has you'll be better off with that. a
    Games rely heavily on the GPU so regardless of the CPU you have or game you're playing its not going be a huge difference in FPS.
     
  20. kondor999

    kondor999 Notebook Consultant

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    For the sorts of games I like (ARMA II, DCS Ka-50 and Rise of Flight), the quad-core is a must-have. Going forward, with the next gen consoles having 8-core processors, buying a dual-core is a risky proposition indeed. The number of highly multi-threaded apps is increasing rapidly. The difference in ARMA II between a dual-core and a quad-core is tremendous - especially when you have a lot of enemies around.

    I have no idea if the typical "twitch-and-shoot" FPS games are multi-threaded. Can't imagine why, since their AI is dumb as a stump in most cases ;)

     
  21. Rooy

    Rooy Notebook Enthusiast

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    What I find intriguing is that a dualcore with a TDP of 37w might be a better fit for the cooling system and might be able to run at full turbo clock. Unfortunately we can't test that yet. And yes it would only be viable for older/recent games and very few going forward. Planetside 2 would probably get more out of the dualcore right now because it's still badly optimized, but that will most likely change because of the work they put into it to bring it to PS4.
     
  22. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Even with Ivy Bridge only one dual core CPU (i7-3540M 35W @ 3.7GHz) would clock faster than the lowest quad core (i7-3630QM 45W @ 3.4GHz) with one or two threads. The i7-3740QM would clock up to 3.7GHz same as the i7-3540m with one or two threads, so there's really no benefit to be honest. Plus your temps should be similar with an i7-4702MQ than a high end dual core and in most cases the multithreading is worth more than a slightly faster clock speed.

    I am just surprised Sager didn't offer the i7-4702MQ as an option. Still debating on whether to pick one up, but need some feedback on temps before I jump.
     
  23. mattstermh

    mattstermh Notebook Evangelist

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    I'm curious to see the FPS difference in BF3 when using a 4702 compared to a 4700.
     
  24. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    Dumb question: I installed Prime95 from HTW's link, then I launched it with Large FFT. I thought Prime would track the CPU temp but if it does, I can't figure out where to find it. If it doesn't, what program do you recommend? I used to use SpeedFan, but I don't know if that's been maintained over the years.
     
  25. frewster

    frewster Notebook Consultant

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    Try HWinfo64.
     
  26. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    Thanks, works like a charm. 15 minutes into Prime95 so far, and I just can't get my 4702 to go over 80 degrees. I have the Clevo panel set to "Performance". Is there anything else I should be doing for my "stock" test? I'll see about OC / UV later.
     
  27. lastnikita

    lastnikita Notebook Deity

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    You could run furmark over that. Will stress the GPU, and since they share the same heatpipe, you'll see what limits your CPU may reach while gaming.
     
  28. Amal77

    Amal77 Notebook Deity

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    Nice temp.
    Around 10c compared to my 4700MQ.

    Can you run the latest 3Dmark13?
     
  29. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Thanks. What speed is CPU running at while doing Prime95?
     
  30. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    I'm at the 3:15 mark now. All cores are averaging right around 2250MHz, The "CPU Package Power" is pegged at 36.8W and the CPU temps are 76, 75, 75, 71. The highest max value for a single core is 85.

    Maybe tomorrow I'll play with 3D benchmarks. Tonight, it's bed time!
     
  31. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    2250MHz, thank you.

    i7-4800MQ will run at 2.8GHz with prime95 without any tweaks, at 78C. So no doubt the i7-4702MQ will run cooler running at a lower clock, and will maintain 3.0-3.2GHz all day long with undervolt. Curious to see though how well the 4702MQ performs with an undervolt.
     
  32. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    I'm at 12h now, figure I'll let it run while I'm at work, then tonight maybe I'll do Furmark. Any progress on that OC / UV guide? :D
     
  33. LoneSyndal

    LoneSyndal Notebook Deity

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  34. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    Finished right around 24h of Prime95, never went over ~80 degrees. I have about 13MB of temp logs if anybody finds that interesting.

    I'll probably install Furmark tonight just to "burn in" the GPU.
     
  35. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Consider MSI Kombustor instead. It's part of the MSI Afterburner download. Furmark tends to throttle the GPU badly, Kombustor seems not to. I think the difference is Furmark is strictly OpenGL where Kombustor is configurable OpenGL 2, 3 or DirectX9, 10, 11.

    Be sure to set it in nVidia Control Panel to use the 765m because by default it chooses the Intel GPU.
     
  36. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    I ran Furmark before I read this -- the 15 minute 1080p burnin wound up with a score of 1356, 79 degrees. It claimed to use the 765m without any intervention on my part, but then the latest changelogs specifically mention the 700 series and Optimus, so maybe that's a recent improvement.

    I might run an overnight "torture test" of some sort, but I'd rather spend the time playing actual games if I have it to spare :D
     
  37. taetertot

    taetertot Notebook Consultant

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    So I guess the chi mei panel is better than the AUO? Mythlogic seems to suggest that's the case.

    Makes me feel a little better, my rig is en route, but I'm pretty sure 1080p on a 13.3 isn't a great idea. Even on my current 17" the 1080p screen results in tiny text on a lot of programs.

    Incidentally are there different bios for the w230st depending on where you get it? Mythlogic says

    Do they simply mean the clevo bios does these things? Since all their notebooks are clevos.
     
  38. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Mythlogic tends to modify their BIOS a bit. At least unlocks some more useful features. Most of those make it into user modded BIOS anyhow, but at least you don't void warranty by having it from day one from Mythlogic.
     
  39. mattstermh

    mattstermh Notebook Evangelist

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    Changing BIOS voids warranty?
     
  40. lastnikita

    lastnikita Notebook Deity

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    Is there any mythlogic user who would share their bios ?
    I wonder if they're just not bragging about this.
     
  41. Taren

    Taren Newbie

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    Hey guys, i have a complete different question. I Read the whole thread and i must say you all did a great job.
    Especially HTWingNut.

    My question is, can you use your mSata SSD as a cachefor the most used files (like in a hybrid SSHD). I mean, is there an option in the Bios to allow it?

    If yes, could someone who has experience with it, how it works?

    THank you :)
     
  42. ryajso

    ryajso Notebook Consultant

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  43. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Yes, technically. But, erm, just flash it back if you need warranty work, ahem. Who just said that?

    I would be wary of doing that, you may not be able to flash back to stock. Wait for Prema to do his magic.

    I don't see the need for a cache drive. If you have a 128GB especially just use it for your OS and apps and frequently used games or ones that benefit from an SSD. Not much will improve by using it as a cache drive for everything else on the HDD.
     
  44. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Here's my shot at a "how to" video for undervolting, underclocking, overspeeding, lol

    <iframe width='560' height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hRtFy7FpQF4" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

    UncleWebb, the author of ThrottleStop had some addendum to this that I will follow up on regarding CPU speed and C states.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2015
  45. kevmanw4301

    kevmanw4301 Notebook Deity

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    HT, I really don't understand why you don't work for some tech site writing material. Your reviews are always top notch, and better than those from a lot websites. *cough* cnet *cough* Great work as always!
     
  46. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Because then I'd be at the mercy of their rules and their timelines and the pay is, well I guess more than I get now, lol (nothing) but I dunno. I'd have to get an offer first.
     
  47. alucasa

    alucasa Notebook Evangelist

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    Thanks for those images. I will probably downscale to 1600 x 900. Thankfully, downscaling doesn't look too bad. It's probably due to the physical size of the screen.
     
  48. mattstermh

    mattstermh Notebook Evangelist

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    Downscaling tends to be a bit fuzzy on the desktop, but not nearly as bad as I've seen on some other machines.
     
  49. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Well updating a bios with an official one would not void the warranty, it's the fact you are flashing unapproved firmware onto it.
     
  50. Ghengis

    Ghengis Notebook Consultant

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    Awesome! Do you have any pointers for getting started with the GPU?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2015
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