HTWingNut's Sager NP7330 / Clevo W230ST REVIEW

Really?

According to XTU, the CPU's holding at solid 3.5ghz under prime95 for me at -120mv.

Certain your XTU undervolt was on at the time?

 

Nice cpu you got there. Lowest undervolt I have read thus far, most seem to have to stop at -100mv. Anyways, what CPU you got and what temps on idle and at full load?

 

That TDP slider is only for a few supported CPUs like the XM...you need to adjust the Cpu Power Limits & Time...

 

I figured as much. I will fuss with that.

 

4800MQ.

I can actually run at -135mv, in 'performance' mode (as any overclocker will tell you, speedstep is the weakest link in stability, and performance mode seems to just always use the highest clocks available), but that's not enough to actually exceed 3.5 ghz with the TDP throttle. So I just knocked it down to 120 so I don't have to change XTU when I want speedstep to kick in (i.e. I pull out the power plug).

For s and giggles, I've also hit 3.9ghz idle, (since the TDP doesn't kick in when idle), but it won't actually stay at that speed if you give it any work to do.

Prema's reply gives me hope that perhaps I'll be able to actually use some of this headroom.

Edit: Let me be clear, it doesn't actually aid my temperatures, as the lower voltage is directly offset by the higher cpu frequency (that's the balancing act that TDP was created to enforce). The cpu will get just as hot under prime95 (~88 celsius peak *without* back propped up). It'll just finish quicker.

I can do a battery life analysis if anyone's interested, but with the second lowest brightness setting (which still seems to be really bright indoors), I'm getting over 4 hours easily (closer to 4.5) as long as I'm not spinning up the gpu or hammering the cpu. (Browsing and remote desktop would fit in that use case for me, for example.)

 

@ xanthian - Is yours a Mythlogic or Sager or other brand?

 

Metabox; I'm located in Perth, Western Australia.

It just occurred to me that most of my idle crashes were preceeded by graphical artefacts first.

I've tried knocking the cpu down to -130 again and bumping the igpu up by +10. So far so good.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

-135 seems to be about the stabilisation point for the core, with +15 attached to the graphics.

I wanted to see how far down the rabbit hole the cpu would go with the gpu offset and if it's just sharing the voltage around all the circuits or what; 140 is still just a tad too far.

Disclaimer: My system is currently configured single channel, with only 1 stick of ram. I'd actually kill to be able to turn off hyperthreading and see if that would unlock a multiplier or two for me from a heat perspective.

 

What is the setting you look for in XTU to undervolt the CPU? I assume it's under voltages but does it have a name (Core Voltage?) , there are a lot of settings.

Also how does XTU work? If you undervolt and then reboot, do you have to run XTU after bootup to enable undervolt again, or does the CPU/BIOS remember the undervolt setting and you only run XTU when you make changes.

-Roger

 

^It's the core undervolt, not the cache. It applies every time you start the computer, no need to do it every time.

 

How many external displays can this laptop display? I am using DisplayPort on my T420s to drive a 2560x1440 display. It looks like this laptop does not have DisplayPort. Would it work through VGA?

 

Well, I broke down and ordered an MSI GS70 Stealth (was strongly considering the 13.3" Sager but decided to make one last try at the 17" form factor). I'm pretty sure it's going to have overheating / throttling issues so I'm preparing myself. It should arrive tomorrow. It has a 4700 HQ processor, rather than the 4800MQ. Would it be safe for me to undervolt this by 0.100 V? What's a relatively safe number for a coward like me to try, in hopes of getting a cooler running CPU without sacrificing stability? People in this thread seem so knowledgeable, which is why I am asking here.

 

Not at that resolution through vga.

HDMI should be able to handle it but I wouldn't recommend gaming at that resolution.

In XTU, you can statically set the voltage, but I've been using the dynamic voltage adjustment, particularly because I can't stop TRP throttling from playing with the clock anyway.

 

I'm very much a novice regarding undervolt and XTU. Where is the dynamic voltage option, is that the Core Voltage? What value do I look for on the display, and what should I adjust it down to, or what value do I put in where, basically?

 

You don't have to fear undervolting, you wont damage anything by running less voltage through it, you can only do that by running too much. Nobody but you will be able to tell if a decrease of 0.100V will be stable, you'll have to run Intel Burn Test and Prime95 for a day yourself to check for stability.

 

Look at my screenshot and try these settings (about -100 mV for both). If you have stability problems change it to -90 mV.

 

I'm working on a "how to" guide to improve cooling which includes repasting, underclocking, and undervolting. It seems there's lots of confusion on this front and I'll try to help where I can.

 

Hmm, I'm at a cafe right now, where outside temperature (and inside probably, because both doors are open and gushing in air) is around 73F (it's 9:30pm). Got my laptop on battery, power saver, wifi on, screen brightness at 2ticks, on top of my X-Slim cooler, and HWMonitor is averaging my cores at between 49-54C. Should I do a repaste? My buddy was telling me last night to not worry about it, being cliche and all with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What do, what do? I don't mind doing a repaste, but do you think this is worthy of a repaste to IC Diamond? Playing League of Legends last night only brought max CPU+GPU temps to around 72F max.

EDIT: So I took the laptop off the cooler before gaming, and the CPU went up to around 60ish. Then while gaming on League of Legends, it went up to like 80ish. Should I worry? Cuz this game isn't even really as resource hungry as SC2 or BF3, etc.

 

Unfortunately, I'm having a difficult time finding the answer. I would not be gaming on the external monitor at 2560x1440. It is just used to extend the desktop since this will be my primary work computer. I know in the past, Intel integrated graphics would not support more than 1080p on external displays (via HDMI). If this is still the case, even though this Clevo has HDMI 1.4a, I would have to pass on it.

Best case scenario, I would have a 22" 1080p extended via the VGA port as well.

If anyone that has one can test it out, I would be very appreciative!

Thank you

 

As per pretty much every single optimus solution, the HDMI is wired directly to the dgpu. (The W110er for example could output > 1080 via hdmi.)

The litmus test for this historically has been that you can install the nvidia drivers on linux and use the dgpu as your sole graphics card.

Granted, requiring the dgpu to be turned on just to output high res is going to make things toastier and louder than otherwise necessary. Especially considering that the 4600 on-die advertises 4k output resolutions; it just isn't wired up to any outputs on this laptop other than vga, which can't do it.

If you want to see just how far the uncertain rabbit hole goes, take a look over here: Intel HD 4600 cannot display 2560x1440?

Monitors that won't accept above 1080 via hdmi. Pshaw.

I'd still expect the HDMI to drive it, at worst you may have to buy an hdmi to dvi adapter off fleabay for 5 bucks if your monitor is bad and should feel bad.

 

Hey Wing, I have a question to which I am sure you have an answer:

I need full permssion for all of the files on my computer. There are a couple folders in system32/drivers that I need to delete but for some reasn (even though I'm administrator) I don't have permission to delete them, and I can't give myself permission to delete them.

 

Claims CPU + GPU run at ambient under load. Asks if repaste will help.

Not sure if troll or srs.

Edit: Hit post too soon. 72C is fine. LoL isn't exactly demanding (you can probably play it off igpu just fine if you want to play it off the battery).

 

So my W230ST had a problem after a family member fiddled with it and used the Refresh feature on Windows 8...

Reinstalling drivers, I came across two odd problems:

1) I'm unable to update Nvidia drivers past the given drivers from purchase (was able to update them before). The issue goes like this: while installing the new driver, the GTX 765M randomly kills itself and becomes an Unknown Device/Display in the Other section.

2) The Intel 7260 AC adapter no longer reaches 4.0 MB/s download on my network even after doing clean installs of driver.

 

I don't think anyone can install past stock drivers except if you do some modded files to do so, but they're not resulting in any improvements.

I had to reset my router.

 

Well I got my Mythlogic. Lets see how those updated fan profiles work out. By the way does anybody know what the best program to monitor temps is?

 

hwinfo for temp monitoring

 

@HTWingNut: Think you can help me with problem number 1? Here's a link for more info: W230ST Undervolting - Page 2

 

One last question. I am trying to figure out the screen type my Mythlogic has. Can anybody tell me how I am supposed to find it (It is an excellent display by the way, it has great whites and blacks and NO backlight bleed whatsoever.)

 

@HTWingNut:
Nice review man. I just heard of this fantastic machine today. I like how it adresses the only two things that I didn't like about the W110ER: the display and the keyboard.

I have a question. (Sorry if it's been asked before) Is the w230st louder when gaming than the w110ER? I am curious, since with all the tweaks you guys posted and developed the latter is pretty quiet when gaming.

So long
onkelosuppo

 

No backlight bleed? That sounds awesome!
I'm pretty sure all of the Mythlogics will have Chi Mei panels until they say otherwise. If you want to be sure I think you can open up the Device Manager and google the model number that shows up under "Monitor".

 

Yup I just checked it and it is a Chemei. I am now having an issue with GPU utilization though in DOTA 2. It is only utilizing only 50% of the GPU power so I am getting very low FPS. Does anyone know what might be causing this and how I can fix it.

 

i see a ton of backlight bleed on my sager np7330

 

I'd say this is a bit louder than the W110ER but not by much.

All I can say is to complain to Sager and/or reseller and ask for a refund and order another. Or order another then return that one once you get your other (as long as it's within the 30 days). I have the LCD 60 day warranty and Sager basically told me to take a hike because they don't cover backlight bleed, only dead or stuck pixels or bruising. They keep saying it's intrinsic in this type of panel but (A) I've seen a few of these panels and they don't exhibit the bleed, or very little, and (B) it shouldn't look like there's a flashlight shining up from the bottom of the screen.

If it's really bad though insist they replace it on their dime. Some bleed is expected, but not around the periphery or taking up 25% of the screen. To be honest, it's only noticeable with black backgrounds, but during letterboxed movies, it is readily apparent.

 

Mine has a lot of bleed along the bottom and bottom left/right corners. I also have a little "smudge" thing right dead center (all of which is only visible with completely dark backgrounds). Still, I love the machine.

Debating whether I should get a replacement or just wait and get a new AHVA after they get the bugs ironed out. How common is it?

I wonder if I stand a high chance of just getting another one with slightly different (and possibly more annoying) issues?

 

If you got the pixel guarantee they will likely do a cross shipment and evaluate the new one before you decide to keep it, or just swap screens. Takes all of 5 minutes.

 

I got my laptop and am trying to install my 840 Pro that I bought, but it seems to be blocking something as the cover doesn't want to go back in cleanly. It's raised by about a millimeter in the corner that the ssd is in. I was wondering if this was normal for anyone else with an ssd.

 

Just thought I would report, installed these: http://the-gadgeteer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/laptoplifts.jpg, and the laptop is running much cooler, elevated the back a bit by putting them under the battery, idle is quiet as the fan has more room to breathe, under load makes maybe a 5C difference but much easier than propping it up on an eraser. You could probably get the same results using any adhesive spacers but these look allot cleaner and i`m a bit pedantic about things like that.

 

^What are your temps during high-intensive gaming?

 

Speaking of adhesives, did anybody figure out what the little foam strips that shipped with the laptop are for? I'm not at home or I'd post a photo -- they're about a quarter-inch across by 2-3 inches long, with little indentations on opposite ends. My first thought was that they're supposed to go on the lid, but that wouldn't explain the "bites" taken out of each end....

 

Good find. I had a set of "cool balls" basically half balls with velcro on the back that works. But this looks more elegant. I might invest in some.

 

So gaming temps with the adhesive elevators, CPU around 80-85C (undervolted, IC diamond, 4800, etc) but really depends on the game, gpu at a relatively cool 65-75C. Could probably get cooler but I don`t want to compromise too much performance as I encode more than I game and its a pain having to change cpu multipliers every time I need to encode a file, is it possible to link different multiplier settings in XTU with different windows power plans? thanks

 

So I was worried about external monitor support on the W230ST so I just pulled the trigger on the new MSI GS70. Newegg had a great deal. Hopefully I don't regret the purchase! I know it is a different class notebook but I wanted to say Thanks for everyone's help!

 

Didn't get the pixel guarantee, I'm afraid (XoticPC). Honestly, the screen is so much better than the TN panel I came from, I just don't care a lot.

I guess I'm a little amazed that you can even get an IPS panel at this price point, especially when you consider how top-notch the other components are. I was playing DCS KA-50 Black Shark 2 and getting nearly identical performance at 1080p that I get with my 5ghz overclocked desktop rig. In a 13", 4lb notebook. Wow, just Wow.

 

hey guys, i'm idling at 11W with full screen brightness and wifi on on my 15,6" asus N550JV, it's silent as hell even loaded, good sound, two fans, aluminium finish and damn easy to disassemble, what about you ?????

Just wanted to annoy u a little

If it can be usefull to anyone, i lowered my idling power consumption by 4W just by changing the Atheros wifi card by an intel 2230N one which was taking dust. responsiveness is also much better when web browsing. Atheros card is a huge power sucker cr*p

 

How can you compare a 765M that weighs less than 5 pounds with a 750M that weighs 6? Of course you're going to have lower power consumption, it's a far less powerful system

 

when idling the dGPU are inactives, thus should have similar power draw

 

You should rather say that Clevo have always been lame when it comes to battery life. Asus too until recently with Haswell. I think it's the con to have a completely modular laptop, it's not very energy optimized. But that's understandable

And as much as i love HWnut i think having 2 m-sata is a joke, raiding two m-sata ssds + add a third ssd on the sata port is becoming ridiculous. As if anyone needs that much speed, u can't even tell the difference at this stage. Not to mention m-sata ssds are more power hungry than regular sata ssds. Give your battery life a favor and buy just a big 840 Evo haha. You won't see any speed diffrence subjectively speaking.

Also, who cares about boot times ? Is there anybody who still shut down his laptop instead of putting it in sleep mode. HDD or SSD, wake up from sleep mode is pretty much as fast. Laptop shut down = 3W at the wall. Laptop in sleep mode = 3W at the wall.

 

Hey, you done here or are you going to keep up the trolling? It's real cool that you like your laptop but I don't think that all of us who enjoy our W230STs really care.

About mSATA SSDs drawing more power - now that Samsung has their PM841 mSATA SSDs out there should be no difference in power consumption - the Samsung SSDs do not show that mSATA SSDs are inherently less efficient, just that Samsung has lower draw chips in their SSDs overall. That point is moot. The big advantage of having mSATA slots and a 2.5 inch bay is so that those of use who can't afford a huge capacity SSD can have a smaller one for our programs and OS and a bigger HDD for everything else.

I'm pretty sure you missed the point on why HT was using three SSDs in his review. If you had gone through it you would have understood. He was doing it to see what the maximum performance of this hardware is, not to get the best battery life or for everyday use. He knew what he doing and so did I since I paid attention to his review, you know?

Hell, you probably won't even read this since you ignored the last person's comment on how the W230ST is more powerful than the 750M in your laptop - the 765M has twice as many shaders. But I guess that won't be much of concern for you since you've got a 768P screen to match the performance of your GPU.

 

Actually, it's a simple matter of battery capacity (small) plus a very fast GPU/CPU combination. I seriously doubt that the SSD's are contributing much in comparison with the GPU/CPU. What the W230ST needs is an extended battery like I had for my Acer. It simultaneously lifted up the back of the notebook (thus obviating the need for a separate notebook cooler or "lifts") and extended the battery by about 75% or so. And this was accomplished without adding much in the way of girth to an already slim laptop.

 

Idle numbers should not be affected by the GPU since it should remain inactive, if your battery life is bad, it's always worth checking if the GPU is being activated by something incorrectly.