Guest Editorial: Apple "MehBooks" and the Future of Macs

The "average consumer" probably won't need more than a 160 gig drive in their notebook. They just need something to watch DVD on, webcam chat with the kids on long business trips, and maybe load a game or two between meetings. If they aren't business sector, and they're service sector they're probably more worried about weight in their bag, and how pretty it looks at Starbucks than extending their e-panis because it has a 320 gig hard drive in it. The thing that bothers me the most about the MacBook [13.3"] is the display. If you pop over to lagom.nl/lcd-test in the Apple store, and look at the black saturation, white saturation, and gamma test you'll notice that the 13.3" has a display no better than a $400 after rebate Compaq 15.4" notebook at Best Buy. The 15.4" and 17" MacBook Pro however are absolutely gorgeous. If they came in matte, with that system spec; I would buy one in a heartbeat, even at ~$2700.

OS X might be based on BSD, but Darwin is atop of a glorified Mach kernel. The only bonus on OS X that I can see, is that pretty much "It just works" (that's the concept for BSD anyway.) Drivers seem to be more thoroughly tested than simple Microsoft WHQL certifications on a MacBook as well due to every MacBook under whatever model has the same or at least very similar hardware in it. You can't really say that about a Sony vs a Dell with the same video card in it. The chipset used could differ between the two products. Heck, there could even be an IRQ problem on the Dell that the Sony [or Asus, or HP, or Lenovo, or...] doesn't have. Closer quality control on the driver side of things is something Apple has always been good at.

I can't believe a huge community site like this would actually let such a biased editorial on the front page. It really sounds like an angsty teenage blog rant. "My Zune is better than Timmy's iPod, because Apple is just marketing nonsense!" type of conversation (Zune is a Toshiba Gigabeat ... and has measurable, objectively worse sound reproduction due to opamps used for the headphone and line out, not to mention how the DAC and power systems differ)

Over the weekend I went to the Southcenter (Tukwila, WA) Apple store and it was so packed that I couldn't even get in. So I went to the Bellevue store next. It was also elbow to elbow, with people huddled around the MacBooks. It seems like they're doing at least something right. Word of mouth is powerful, and so is green grass.

 

Probably because there are no HP stores, Dell stores, Alienware stores, Sager stores, etc etc etc.

Apple stores, however, exist.

 

I think the MacBook is very competitively priced at $1300. Machined aluminum is much sturdier than plastic pieces held together with hooks and screws, not to mention how much nicer it looks. A MacBook to an Inspiron is like a Lian-Li case to generic case.

If I want a quality 13-inch notebook to compare with the MacBook, I'd consider:

>> Lenovo Ideapad U330 ( ~4.2 pounds, $1200 but can often be found for $1000)
>> Sony Vaio SR ( ~4.1 pounds, starts at $1350 for a P8400 configuration)

Basically, these alternatives are a bit lighter and cheaper. Their build qualities are excellent, but not quite as good as MacBook. I can justify picking any of them, including the MacBook.

 

Asking Apple for cheaper or lower prices on their products, is like asking Chanel or LV to start selling their handbags, wallet and purse for mainstream price, and you are telling them that they will make more money.. Which i think they will LoL at you.

I myself am a pc user, but also love the mac os, since im a designer, learning both is good. But seeing such a post on this website is such a disappointment..

 

Not sure if this was mentioned already (this thread is too long to read every reply), but now that Lenovo has gone mainstream (i.e., consumer focused instead of business focused), I'm really glad that you have to pay a premium to buy a Mac. Makes for an exclusive club with a high buy in price.

On a more serious note, the Mac is the only option that allows you to run OSX and Windows... and that's exactly why I have one.

While a number of people complain about Vista, on a Mac (via Parallels) it runs better than it does on a PC.

Is it worth a premium for this convenience... absolutely! I literally saved days of work when I purchased a new MBP (2 weeks ago) because I could simply copy my Parallels virtual machine (file) from my old MBP to my new one. No re-installation of all my apps, no tweaking to get everything just so, just copy my VM and start it up and voila, I'm ready to go.

As a software developer, it's really important for my to stay well versed in both OSX and Windows, and the Mac it the only computer that allows me to do this.

What if you only need to run Windows? In my opinion, after using Thinkpads, Dells, HP's, and Asus for more than 15 years, if you want the best, you want a Mac. There just too many refinements that have been made to the hardware to discount them just because of a few extra dollars.

BTW, my new MBP was a build to order system and it arrived 7 days after I ordered it. That's what I call service.

 

Same old tired argument I've seen against Mac computers - certainly some valid points in there, but absolutely nothing new. And, as for your last point about Apple keeping a cheaper option, they did - you can still get the plastic Macbook for now under $1000 (yes, that's still not cheap, but it's the cheapest you've ever been able to get a Mac laptop, I believe).

No one has ever bought a Mac because, component for component, it beats out a budget competitor. It's always going to fail that test. You're missing intangibles from your spec sheets that are making the difference for consumers - things like keyboard quality (I love the chiclet ones), touchpad quality, size/weight, heat dispersion, sexiness, ease of repair (Apple stores nearby), etc.

Mac sales are through the roof, so clearly something is catching consumers' eyes. Why should Apple cheapen their price point or sell the OS stand-alone for PCs when they're making a killing with their current business model?

These arguments always boil down to the same fallacy for me it seems - that there's something wrong with what Apple is currently doing. And the fact is that there isn't - their sales are way up, their reputation is quite high, and people seem to be jumping all over these computers right now - so why do they need to change their strategy? Granted, maybe this last shift won't work out for them and they will need to switch something up, but it seems you've already decided that this is another failed misstep by Apple in its laptop line when all evidence is currently pointing to a continued high water mark for the company. This is the sort of piece that needs to be written after things actually do start going badly, not before.

 

I agree that mac laptops are not price-value for average consumers...from my comparison with other consumer pc-laptops at similar configurations and specs like Lenovo Ideapad U330 or HP dv3500t when I was in the market for a new 13.3-14" laptop....it was around 100-200$ more expensive....the design and the aluminum casing justify the extra bucks I am paying for....and I agree that it was a bit of disappointment that the pricing was a bit too high and that they could make the white macbook cheaper like 799 or 899.

 

I've always had the impression that Macs are for people who don't know much about computers.

Walk into an Apple store on any given day - you can tell by their customers and employees.

OSX, on the other hand, I can respect that. But why doesn't Apple allow OSX to be distributed freely? What if Microsoft only allowed Windows on "MicroBooks?"

I dislike the inseparable association between the Mac hardware and OSX. It's a real shame.

 

That is a contradiction. There is always a performance hit when running a VM. OS always run faster natively than on a VM. Secondly, Parallels is much, much slower than VMware. VMware and VirtualBox run circles around Parallels.

 

Hmmm, on second thought:

It's not so much Macs, but the people who use them.

 

Lol. 8% market share is now through the roof? I guess Windows PC's with 90% market share is bad business through Apple-tinted glasses.

 

In this thread: OP doesn't like that he can't afford a Mac. Other posters jump on the bandwagon.

Hell, I hate Apple more than most people, and still forked out for a MB. It's a nice machine.

 

100% agree

IMO, mac is neither as cheap as linux,nor has the compatibility of windows...but costs a LOT.

I hate those brain wash of apple...they always try to make ppl blind of apple's products cons. i hate the philosophy apple give to people .. like "mac=perfect, windows = joke "

so, if i could afford a mac, i would buy a better PC

 

Well, as I said, my MacBook is out for repair for the seventh time now due to build quality issues. I rarely use the machine, it never leaves my desk. In fact, the only thing I really used it for was to sync my iPods and iPhone. But now that I've been forced to move everything over to Windows I don't even need it for that any more.

I took that as sarcasm. The OP needs to make a post in this thread stating if it was or not. The OP mentions that they know the heat issues of the Mac well and state how hot their aluminum and plastic systems have gotten over the years.

Many people agree with you? Thats funny because I read this whole thread and it seems that only you and maybe two or three others think this article is bad. The overwhelming majority of posters in this thread whole heartedly agree with the article.

I've been a Mac owner for nearly two years now. I agree with every single word in that article. It's not "bias" or "subjective" to say that Macs get too hot for their own good. That is a fact. One of the issues my MacBook case had on multiple occasions was cracking due to heat. While encoding video, the CPU temp on my MacBook would level off at 87c with spikes at 89c. I can play games on my HP and the GPU and CPU temp barely pass 60c.

It's a fact that you can buy a PC that is equal to a Mac in terms of hardware, or even somewhat batter, for half the price.

It's a fact that Macs generally don't include features that are considered standard in the PC world. Features like HDMI, memory card readers, other video connectors WITHOUT adapters, fingerprint readers, user serviceable optical drives, Firewire even! Full size ExpressCard slots. The list goes on and on. Thats not being subjective or "biased", thats just being honest and stating the facts.

This article is anything but an embarrassment. It's more of a relief. Someone finally having the nerve to come out and say, on a large scale, what everyone already knows and thinks. Someone needs to put Apple in their place and its good to see that this article here and others have begun to do so.

Idling at 58c isn't a heat issue? Your CPU in your black MacBook idled around where my 2GHz Core 2 Duo in my HP peaks. That is definitely a heat issue. The case reaching 40c while just browsing the web is a heat issue. The case going well beyond that around the vents and on the bottom while doing more intensive tasks is definitely a heat issue.

I "babied" my MacBook by almost never using it for anything other than syncing my iPod and iPhone. I used my first MacBook a lot but it never left the desk. Yet the plastic still manage to discolor due to heat and crack due to heat. Oh it had a nice little bubble or two and separation on the hinge due to heat as well. After that system got replaced and I got my HP, I stuck to only using my Mac for syncing and light emailing and very light browsing (since we all know how hot Macs get while browsing Flash sites). Despite that it still managed to crack from heat. Again, my MacBook never left the desk. Never.

I had 3GB in my HP (Vista 32-bit) and 3GB in my MacBook (Napa platform) and Leopard was significantly slower in every way compared to Vista, despite having similar components. 2.16GHz Merom on the Napa platform in my MacBook, 2GHz Merom on the Santa Rosa platform in my HP. The speed difference (application loading, CPU intensive tasks finishing far faster, etc) was definitely not just the result of the slightly faster bus speed on the Santa Rosa chipset.

How? In the 20 months I've owned a Mac and used Tiger, Leopard, XP, and Vista, I have never been able to see how OS X is "more intuitive".

False. Run CPU tests.

Second, install everything you use on Vista and OS X. Use both equally for a couple of weeks. Then do a fresh boot and see which one loads your apps faster. For me, after a fresh boot, iTunes, Firefox, and the rest of the apps I use regularly load almost instantly in Windows versus OS X.

I'm sorry but thats false too. I have to run Onyx as regularly in OS X as I have to defrag in Windows. Not only that but I've had both Tiger and Leopard on two different systems crash more times in the 20 months I've owned a Mac than Windows in the nearly 2 decades I've used Windows. Vista on my HP has not crashed ONCE. Yet in that same time Leopard has crashed (full system lockup) at least 10 times. The funny thing is that Vista running on the Mac is 100% rock solid.

Really? When did Apple enable these new fangled power management features? In Vista you can configure everything from how well your wireless adapter will work to just how fast the processor can run. Using "Power Saver" settings in Vista on my HP with the "extended capacity" 6 cell battery I can pull of 3 hours and 20 minutes of real world battery life. Browsing sites with flash, 50% screen brightness, etc. With my MacBook? Well, I have to have the screen set at 50% because below that its not useable. Browse sites with Flash and other regular uses and it gets maybe 10 more minutes real world? Thats with the remaining capacity of 5275mAh on a battery with 30 cycles. Now my HP with a 12 cell battery.. I can push nearly 6.5 hours on those same settings.

I will say that the "Executive Customer Service" is fantastic. But getting to that point is not. Why does AppleCare close every night at 6PM?

I live in southern California and the closest Apple Store is a good 75 mile round trip.

Social status? If you're buying a computer because of social status then you have more to worry about as a person than what computer you own.

Which isn't as good as Windows.

Why yes, I do think Apple's blatant ripoff of HP's designs over the last 2.5 years look pretty good. Though HP's original designs look better.

As I said above, if you're buying a computer because its the trendy thing to do then you've got more serious issues.

More often than not, a PC is required over a Mac.

Stealing HP and Alienware designs is "unique"?

Above average prices? You mean their double pricing?

But with my $900 HP I don't have to worry about the case falling apart or discoloring or cracking due to heat or any nonsense like I have to worry about with my $1406.17 MacBook.

Oh come on. Thats just nonsense. You're trying to say that Vista runs better in virtualization software that can't even take full advantage of all of its hardware features than it does on an actual machine designed to run the OS? Please!

Ease of repair with a MacBook?

When my optical drive went bad in my PC, I was able to call HP up and have a new drive sent to me. It took less than a minute to swap out the drives. When the optical drive went bad in my MacBook I had to send it out for repair, which led to botched repairs by Apple's repair facility which led to me being without my MacBook for a total of 3 full weeks!

Heat dispersion? My HP runs, at peak, nearly 30c cooler than my MacBook, even though the HP has dedicated graphics. Idle the HP runs about 20c less.

Making a killing? I wouldn't say that. Sure their profits are through the roofs thanks to the double price tag, but they still only represent a very small portion of the overall market.

I liked Macs until I bought one. Now that I own one I can't stand them and wish I could have my money back.

 

"Social status? If you're buying a computer because of social status then you have more to worry about as a person than what computer you own."

+1.

 

^^ those are all opinions and not facts. i think you're getting a little too worked up over this whole thing. if you dont like macs..... then move on? seems like the sensible thing to do.

 

thank you so much OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

last time I went to the apple store I asked one of the staff 'how much memory does it support' and he couldn't answer that so he tried to find it online... he couldn't so I figured I'd ask him 'what chipset does it use?' he said the chipset had nothing to do with memory... I walked out of the store.

It would be nice if mac fanboy's would do the same...
I think it should read...
those are all opinions and not facts. i think you're getting a little too worked up over this whole thing. if you dont like [Windows]..... then move on? seems like the sensible thing to do.

 

HOT TOPIC ​

 

It seems like you really love your hp and exclaim how happy you are that it runs so much cooler than a macbook..... maybe you should head on over to the HP forum and check out heat issues for the DV5 equipped with a 9600gt. Now ask users of the new mbp if they have heat issues while using the 9600gt....

and 58C is not a heat issue. modern components can deal with temperatures near 100C. i never had trouble with the macbook being too hot to use on my lap.

 

Whats not a fact?

The MacBook and MacBook Pro look exactly like HP and Alienware computers. Thats a fact.

The build quality of the plastic MacBooks and previous MacBook Pros was.. well, horrible. Thats a fact.

ITs a fact that the systems get too hot.

 

Ok, but not in my experience, and the reality is that as long as my computers work, I couldn't care less if others have issues

Opinions: software, less maintenance, better battery management, customer service, etc

 

Use quoting please. Makes it easier for everyone reading the thread to know who and what you are replying too.

Mac owners never believe they have heat issues. I've shown this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv38uGj0PhY to countless Mac fans. Every single one has said "thats normal". While the PC owners, even with notebooks that had high end GPUs (the 9600M GT is not high end) said "wow thats too hot!"

You're completely missing the point when it comes to "heat issues". Sure a Core 2 Duo can handle temps up to 100c. But when you have a component that is IDLING at 58c in a plastic or aluminum case that is barely 3/4" thick, that case is going to get ridiculously hot. That is where the heat issues lie. Especially when that CPU is running at full throttle and the poorly designed cooling system is causing the CPU to run at temps up to 90c. You're getting hot air blown out that is nearly that hot. It causes the case to get very hot to the touch, it causes plastic to crack, it causes the previous MacBook Pros to warp with time..

You get it now?

 

ahaha! Precisely what I did.

 

ahah uh no..

Software is not an opinion. Show me software on OS X that is as good as Nero, WinDVD, etc.

Show me how OS X requires less maintenance.

Show me a MacBook getting better real world battery life than a GOOD PC with the screen set to a realistic brightness while browsing real websites.

Tell me how AppleCare is "GOOD" customer service when it closes at 6PM and is closed on weekends.

 

Don't talk down to me like you're some all-knowing being.

I don't give a rats behind if you think macbooks suck. I liked my previous gen macbook and have no issues with new mbp. I think they are well-made laptops with excellent software and great customer service. I have had dells and hp's in the past, but they simply don't compare with macbooks. Cheaply made plastic, crappy keyboards, and awful outsourced customer service **** me off more than a loose battery cover. No, 58C is not too hot, and its great that windows users have ice-cool systems that take up 6 inches of space in their backpack and pack an extra 10 lbs. I'll take my warmer macbook over a whiny, fan-always-on vista notebook.

 

I don't need to burn cd's dvd's so I don't care about Nero. WinDVD = a DVD player. One DVD player is as good as another... It's not like WinDVD makes you a drink and fluffs your pillow too.

Show me how Windows requires less maintenance? (i.e. its an opinion)

Battery life: go check out the review websites

Customer Service: I don't have a need to be calling for computer help at night, and I appreciate the ENGLISH LANGUAGE when someone is talking to me, and as far as I know, apple stores are open on the weekends.... so I don't know what you're talking about with respect to that.

 

yep, the future of macs is doomed. We re all gonna be left with Vistas and Dells.

 

Whats better a Ferrari (MB/MBP) or a Corvette (PC alternative)? The cheapest Ferrari costs about the same as a fully upgraded corvette (highest end model? probably don't know much about cars xD) and is probably faster too. But seriously what would you pick? Sure the corvette will have better features (overall), but a Ferrari is a Ferrari (IMO classier). Pretty much how I feel about this debate.

EDIT: reading what SauronMOS I'm a horrible person lol!

 

Nope!! Macs are terrible. The cheaper the computer is the better one - always!! Macs have everything terrible. $599 Dell made in Kosovo or Uzbekistan is just as good!!!! I mean look at hard drive space!! It is the same as the macbook and it costs only $599. Clearly mac users are simply stupid by buying a computer that cost more then dells!!

 

i like how everyone uses car analogies

I think i used a ferrari one a few pages back

 

**** straight. I consider myself an idiot and I'm darn proud of it.

 

Sauron, I believe we all understand you have a strong grudge against Apple, but let's all bring it down a notch or two. I honestly respect your opinion, but passing opinions as facts doesn't seem quite right. So to answer your questions.....

Logic Pro.

No need to defrag every month or two. No need to update antivirus software on a weekly basis, no need to find the drivers that are optimum for my PC. This also partially answers your previous question about speed. Because there is no need to install protection software, OSX uses less resources and runs fasters.

If you've read my macbook review, I've listed the battery life there.

Well, it sure beats having no physical stores and purely relying on multiple phone calls to India

 

lol! I started reading from page 19...were you the one who used the Porsche one?

 

Sir if we re gonna be defending Steve's Ballmer company here we need to dig big!! If the only software that windows have better is winDVD or Nero, we re gonna make ourselves look like fools. How about paint!?? mac doesnt have paint or build in amazing games!!

 

So do I with my HP business warranty. That I can call at anytime of the day, everyday of the year.

Not everyone lives 30min from an Apple store.

I very much appreciate my HP's magnesium lid and inner chassis and durable plastic shell. Also my business class keyboard.

Yes it is.

Yes it is great that I have a 35C idle CPU thats alittle thicker than a MBP with almost as good battery life notebook that weights alittle more. Also it came with vista and XP Pro, and in fact most people dont have issues with Vista nowadays.

I have nothing against Apple as I have mentioned before. I just don't like people making misleading posts.

 

hell yeah, U should have bought a dell for $599. Now what I should do is write a guest editorial about how macs are bad and expensive. Not that I m jealous or anything but its because I m right

 

I think the problem is that many people where expecting lots from macs but they did not get it. In fact we are still waiting for that 17", whatever the delay is. But fact of the matter is, Mac does not live up to that price point.

 

Well that can vary as some people might want to pay the premium for some other features. Saying that mac dont live up to their price point is a bit harsh since apparently some people are buying macs. But who knows!? those might just be rumors.

 

What PC alternative??? All the Business-class notebooks (aka Thinkpad, HP business-line, Dell latitude) are better than any Macbook or Macbook Pro in terms of build quality and features.

To all the hypes about the Aluminum body, tell you what, the magnesium alloy constructions found in some business-class laptops are better than any piece of aluminum Apple can throw at you.

Sure, Macs (the Pro ones) are better than many other laptops in terms of build quality, HP Pavilion or Dell inspiron are just crap. But certainly Macbook(Pros) is not worth the price tag it has.
To me, not even the new Macbook is good, I played around with one and it's not that durable like what the fanboys said, only the Macbook Pros are some decent ones.

 

I got rid of my mac after the faulty power brick + vertical stripes issue + faulty fan issue, all in one mbp.

But honestly, I decided my principles are worth more than a fancy notebook. I felt like a victim of marketing, like a dumbed down consumer, and prisoner to what clearly was an overpriced and underperforming laptop for me. I don't like the closed off nature of the macs and the milk you for every upgrade philosophy of apple's iphone and ipod (most vendors would have incorporated 90% of those features for free via a firmware upgrade). I find that windows crashes as much as a mac does. They're even and one is not inherently better than the other. If so, then I'm not going to pay that much more for the same functionality, and I get to keep my principles. Made me feel like I have short-man syndrome, where you have to talk a big game to make yourself feel adequate.

 

i prefer magnesium alloy than aluminum

 

I second that with my thinkpad...

 

Business warranties command premiums upwards of 200 dollars. Compare to standard consumer warranty. Macbooks aren't business machines either. Apples vs. Oranges here. As a mod, you should know that.

Its not my problem that people don't live near apple stores. I haven't had any issues with apple customer service, either on the phone or in person, while the pc brands have given me heaps of trouble and lots of wasted time on the phone.

Magnesium is a metal so, yes, your computer has added stability. Others are made from all or mostly all plastic. Those are the 599 brands people are comparing here.

58C is not too hot.

I don't have issues with vista either. I have a vista htpc and I love media center, but for MY PURPOSES a macbook is better suited.

Its funny that pc users have posted more outlandish things, yet you go after me for posting something "misleading."

 

Your right but they pay premium for an OS, while other people pay premium for high performance parts on their laptops, what I think Apple should do is keep the same price but add performance parts to it. There fore you are paying for hardware rather then a physicaly non existing part.

 

So I think this had gotten more views and replies than any other editorial or news article.

 

I guess the MBPs major competitors are Thinkpads, Elitebooks, Not sure about Dells (Precision-series?). I think you're a agreeing with my previous post?

 

Well its not only os that comes to play part in here. I mean designing and producing such a quality product as macbook/pro takes time and money. Most PC are big, use cheap plastics, are pretty heavy well u get none of that in macs. They re sexy, light, very very thin and still punch the same hardware as their bigger brothers. U pay more not only for the OS but for the whole MAC experience. U can go and play with it at the apple store. U get one of the best customer service in the US, and a very sexy machine. I m not arguing here that macs are the kings of price vs performance ratio but they do have their good sides. What makes me sad is people that simply cant afford a mac come here and talk about their dells. Mac users are really not snobbish but they are being pushed to the limits by pc-bots all the time. i had to save for my mac for a long time but I ve got it and its awsome, even if its a bit overpriced. I dont have a need to go around yelling how unfair it is that they are more expensive then dells or writing stupid editorials that will make me fell better.

 

I remember I had the Asus C90S notebook with a desktop processor (E6600) and I was idling around 55C. So, for a regular laptop with a mobile CPU, 58C should be considered quite hot IMO.

 

I'm half agreeing with your post because you included the Macbook in there, which to me doesn't deserve such a price and hypes. However, even for the Macbook Pros, it's still a bit overpriced specs wise compared to a business laptop.

And no, MBP is not a competitor to any business-class notebooks, the aluminum body is nowhere matches magnesium alloy construction and fibre-carbon composite plastic. More important, MBP is in a different league, its for rich people with extra cash to spend on luxury things.
Again, IMO after holding a new Macbook in my hand, the new aluminum is no where near what's called "premium", certainly doesn't deserve a high price tag.
But to most users, they may think it's good. I have a different standard since I'm a business-laptop owner.

Now, aluminum+thinness come with a price, heat!!!

 

That's right. That's exactly what a macbook is. Its a premium product built for the upper/upper middle class. Why people are still comparing macbooks with value products, I have no idea.