Guest Editorial: Apple "MehBooks" and the Future of Macs

Crap?? ok let me tell you something.
Magnesium allow roll-cage & Fibre carbon composite beat any type of aluminum a Mac has. It's build quality right there. Yes the Macbook Pro is better than many consumer range but is still one level below business-class laptops.
thinkactive techonoly and fall-sensor, my thinkpad has been dropped many times, an as a matter of fact it still survives. Now let's try to drop a Macbook.
Thinkpad Keyboard, enough said.
Pointing stick, 4 buttons touchpad...though I'm not gonna argue about the Multi-touch, that's subjective, same for thinklight vs backlit keyboard.
Ports is another thing, clearly Mac just doesn't have enough ports.
Bottom line, Apple Macbook or Macbook Pro build quality is worse than that found in Business-class laptops. This is objective, I had compared a new Macbook and a Thinkpad T500 side-by-side. Aluminum may be good compared to plastic, but means nothing to Magnesium alloy. And that's the reason why I don't like Apple, since they charge a high price than a business-class laptop but offer lesser build quality.
I'll take my thinkpad to smash to any Macbook or Macbook Pro and guarantee you my thinkpad wouldn't have a scratch.

 

I'm surprised at this thread. Not because of the sheer volume of posts over such a short period of time (that was expected), but I'm amazed at how, barring one or two exceptions, posters are so civil in the thread after nearly 500 posts.

Everyone has a bias. That's their right and it's not possible to remove your own bias completely.

 

When you drop a plastic laptop...bang! you have some serious scratches...

When you drop an aluminium laptop....bang! the casing bends...
and you know where to go...MacSmith!
they'll fix yours with their superb-aluminium alloy in no time

well...tbh its not always thin outside...and light...but also the thickness of the aluminium inside

 

there. that is a fact plastic CAN crack and AL CAN bend... simple as that

why are we comparing the AL MB to a 599 dell? lets compare the old MB vs AL MB. then discuss if it is worth the extra money.

 

maybe its just me, but i dont understand why we're comparing what happens to a laptop if you drop it? if you drop it, you're screwed. everyone knows that. don't drop it... or buy a toughbook.

 

I didn't specify my intent, I wanted to show people what are facts... it seems that this a challenge for some posters in this thread.

lets try another FACT... Marek likes his Mac.
another FACT: I like my Thinkpad another poster likes his HP.

how about comparing old MB vs new? that is what we should be comparing.

 

this is a joke that a thread like this is on the front page of the site while great REAL REVIEWS BY REAL USERS are not even responded to.

I really can't stand all of these USER reviews by site admins anymore.

oh look another notebook, run it through the generic NBR review machine...

 

Agreed. Comparing macs to macs is the sensible thing to do.

+1.

 

Keep the thread going. Attack, attack!!!

Mac users have a napoleon complex.

 

Macs are more expensive than PC? welcome to the 90s

by the way, instead of comparing a Mac to a Dell...why not compare it to a traditionally expensive brand like Sony or the Dell XPS line?

 

I think your missing the point. this thread was created because the OP was disappointed with the NEW macbooks. He is not dissapointed with OS X (infact he quite likes OS X I think). He feels that the increase in cost is not justified. Let's take PC's right out of the arguement (I know they were in the OP, but that wasn't the point).

Common lets bring this down to MB vs AL MB ONLY

EDIT: PS:

I think we've done enough of that in the last 460 posts.

 

There is no increase in costs. Macbook Pro always was always priced at $1999 and macbook at $1299. With the newer ones u get a new hardware, new unibody and all other stuff. So he feels that when he cant afford one he ll just act like a pc-bot and write a stupid editorial

 

I d really like to see that, please post a video on youtube about that otherwise your post is pointless.

 

Since u even say so, please do not put that in your arguments cause they just dont work.

 

I would if some Macbook owner confident enough to lend me the notebook for a video.
Otherwise, I don't have to convince you, Macbook (Pro) is lesser in build quality compared to business-class laptops (Dell Latitude, HP business-line, Thinkpad...)
And that's a fact.

I just prove my point. Now unless you can show me how the aluminum can be better than magnesium alloy, otherwise...

Chill , this is just for fun. Don't get so intense

 

Well u re making your point so its not my job to supply u with equipment. So otherwise, I think u have a long way ahead of u to convince me to anything And that's a fact.

 

Apple has traditionally kept the price level of Mac's fairly constant. They come out with new updates with new technology, but doesnt make them cheaper. If you want cheaper, get a refurbished model. Just because every PC manufacturer is coming out with a Netbook and aggressively cutting price to compete, that doesn't mean Apple needs to do the same.

one thing people don't realize is that Apple machines are expensive, but they retain their value better than their PC counterparts. a 3 year old machine can probably still fetch somewhere close to $1000 if kept in good working condition. same can't be said for PC

 

Well, whatever makes you happy

Bottom line is, I don't hate Apple because of their prices are too high. As long as Macbook (pro at least) offer a comparable build quality to a business-class laptop, Apple certainly has failed to do so.

I saved 7 months of my paycheck for my HP, so price wasn't the big factor for me. I don't just buy a laptop because it's cheap, I would rather not have laptop than buying some crappy ones like a Pavilion or Inspiron. I have standard, and to me Macbook(Pro) doesn't deserve such a price tag. I was an original Mac (desktop) lover, I have used Mac OS X along with Windows. I don't just jump on the bandwagon and start bashing like an idiot.

 

last I checked the price was 999 in the US.

Ok ENOUGH about the Thinkpad smashing the mac, seriously if you want to talk about that start another thread.

MastaMarek: if you want to keep calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a pc-bot. your starting to offend me. I am trying to stay neutral.

I am a Windows user, I have had no problems; you are a Mac user and judging my your posts you have had no problems. don't bash PC's - thats how these things start.

=======================================
MB vs AL MB!!!! lets do something that has never been done before! lets end a flame war without a mod closing the thread!

 

Hear I'll start.

AL MB does not have FireWire.
AL MB does have nice touchpad...

 

Marek , aren't you getting tired of triple posts and smiley's?

 

Exactly. Two words: resale value.

I sold my blackbook for 1100 with no warranty. Don't think a PC that cost 1400 would fetch 1100 14 months later.

 

MB AL has much better graphics. Better screen too (LED). loss of firewire isn't really much of a loss for me. People will get used to it. I do wish Apple would've included an additional USB port, but probably wasn't possible due to space constraint.

 

What what????
LED isn't anything new. All other companies have started offering LED.

 

I was talking about the old Macbook vs. new Macbook

 

Resale values mean nothing to me.

My Sony Vaio with its carbon fibre bod lasted me 4 years and its still going strong if not for the slow processor.

My current HP dv3500t has a LED display and backlit keyboard with an option to change out the dvd-rw drive to a blu-ray option in future.

At a local Starbucks, I have had 2 persons with their new macbooks complain to me about dust collecting in their glass display, vulnerability of the surface of the aluminium bod, the mini dvi ports which don't even have an adaptor for hdmi yet? They took a look at my HP and thought its a great machine, though I did lust after their OSX.

and I did wait in anticipation of October 14th for Apple to release their macbooks/mbps. sad to say the only thing i thought i will miss is the 9400M which my 512mb dedicated although ddr2 9300M GS is only a tad bit slower, but I have a HDMI, VGA, 5-in-1 card reader(I save at least 2 sets of cables/adaptors which is important when you want to travel, why make me pay $29-69 and carry an extra cable Apple?), an eSata, backlit keyboard for only $25.

i like the sturdiness of the aluminium unibod, but i arent going to want to have carry something that could be a potential fine scratches magnet ruining the all so beautiful body...it need not even be scratched by external elements but just inside your bag with all those cables,adaptors...mini dvi adaptor?

 

1. Dust gets cleaned off... I'm pretty sure dust collects on everything.
2. The aluminum is no more prone to scratches than other materials. If taken care of properly you can avoid scratches all together.
3. Mini-display port sucks, no argument there.
4. Congratulations about your extra ports. The discussion about value is pages back. Glad you like your computer, but I'm sick and tired of PC vs. mac discussions. OS X itself is worth the money for me.
5. "I aren't" is awful grammar.
6. I don't know of anyone who doesn't have a neoprene or hard case for their laptop. Of course it's going to get scratched if you just toss it in your bag...
7. That's good that resale value means nothing to you. I like making sure that my dollars work for me, and I like staying on top of the curve when it comes to technology so I buy things that I can sell at a minimal loss to fund new purchases. An $800 dollar macbook pro? Yes, please.

 

yeah...but not the hardware which comes with it..get the point?
i agree as much as you do..that..its the OS which is..tempting

 

http://translate.google.com/transla...nal.de/tests/696/1&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Aluminium-Unibody-13-9400M.11984.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-v5-2008-Unibody-9600M-GT-9400M.11973.0.html

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/21/macbook-and-macbook-pro-review/

http://gizmodo.com/5063492/macbook-and-macbook-pro-dual-review

Check out this reviews...

 

No, clearly because I stand behind my mac, I don't get the point.

So what does a 2.8ghz processor do that a 2.4 ghz processor can't? I don't care if you can have a mammoth 3" laptop with a 9800gtx and 2tb of hd space, and you can encode a video in 30 seconds. I appreciate the aesthetics of my macbook pro and it does everything I need it to do in a great software environment.

 

you seem to assume pc laptops are always thicker than your macbook pro

 

Ok, so show me a 15.4" laptop with an LED screen and optical drive thats under 1".

 

i have seen it...just too bad macbook pro cant maintain its under 1" without compromising by leaving out so many ports..options...lol

 

you didnt said that your MBP is worth the price.

and its not about hardware which 'does everything' ..its software
i can have cheaper specs and installing hackintosh on it..and it also 'does everthing' in a great software environment..
hmm?

 

have others seen it too? i havent. lack of ports does suck, but thats what bluetooth is for. i have a htpc which i use to connect all my peripherals

$800 for an mbp is worth the price, thats implied.

hackintoshes are illegal, congratulations for being a criminal.

 

What's the point of this article?
The price differential between a MBP and an HDX16t can be summed up as follow:

• All-aluminium vs plastic composite body
• Lower cost of production due to HP's bigger scale
• More ODM control in HP than Apple's products
• Apple brick and mortar retail channel vs HP's channel resellers. Those flashy retail outlets cost a lot to operate.
• Apple's localised support vs HP's outsourced consumer support
• Apple's in-house repair facility vs HP's 3rd party repair facilities
• Apple's packaging cost
• Mac OSX development cost (HP doesn't pay for a significant portion of Windows development cost as it's not made specifically for HP)

 

Well why drive a Bentley if it has a Ford engine inside(Intel processor)?

 

Well...I am a PC user and I bough the cheap macbook for its spec.

I am aware of the supid debate MAC-other computers sinche the time of the Sinclair ZX Spectrum.
Always thought that Apple in some case was the best but until know it was not answering my needs.

Today it is.

So I highly disagree with the OP and I think this review is just misleading people looking for the inconvenients AND the advantages of this item.

Conclusion are always biazed but the review should explain enough the good and bad points so eveyone can make his own conclusion.
Many good points are not well explained.

So here is my review:

I needed a portable PC able to :

- Survive the overcrowed Tokyo metro rush (destroyed 4 screens these last 5 years).
- Able to game 1h30 minutes and remain silent and cool. And when I mean silent, I mean extremely silent.
- Have a new gen cpu with only 2 ghz. Because a celeron 2 is good enough for the GPU and more ghz will just affect the ration battery/performance.
- Don't want to break my back carrying every day. It should be 13, best size IMO.
- Don't want to bring a mouse, portability means I just need the notebook and go.
- Yeah it should look good, because I like beautiful things and I don't see why ugly things are more professional in any way.

So my choice was between = Sony Z, Macbook, LG P310
.
LG P310 is the most powerful but battery time is a joke.

Sony Z is perfect except for the price. In Japan the cheapest is 186 000 Yen (1700 USD I think). And steel the GPU is just a 9300m 128mb and not the 256 mb model.

The macbook is 146 000 JPY. 1400 USD. I added a 500gb harddrive and still it was cheaper than the Z.

The game is working flawlessly, it remains always silent thanks of the aluminium working as a heatsink. It stands 1h30 as promised. If I just use internet it works 3h30mn.

There is no jetengine starting when you play. Really you can't hear anything! No heat as well. It's light and strong.

Man, 9400 nvidia chipset is really amazing, I tryed the Z and macbook and I don't care about the P8400 it's definitely better on this chipset than 9300m GS.

So it's a good PC in my book.

And I tryed MAC OS X for the first time....Wow, it makes life a lot easier than VISTA! Vista is rock stable now and this is a good OS I agree.
But it's not that convenient and appealing.

The trackpoint is fantastic, I hated the first hour and now I stupidly try to click in the middle of my other laptop PC trackpoint...

This is so convenient that I decided to put only enough space in bootcamp for the game and leave all the space for MAC OS X. It communicates easily with my other computers and this immediately after log on for the first time.

So this value is for me superior to the pain to have an ugly, loud, heavy, piece of plastic, which can't run game and require a mouse (that's why you have more than 2 USB I guess).

Also for people who wonder why women prefer MAC, try to put a Dell inspiron in a feminie handbag and try the MAC AIR....

My conclusion is: value is perceived differently depending on your needs.

Making a review just based on what you're looking for is just useful for yourself. My review is only good for people looking for the same things.

But there are many good points that the OP forgot to mention and this is definitely misleading people.

The only thing which annoys me is the outrageous price Apple require just to buy an additionnal electric cable! This is overpriced but this generation of macbook is not in my opinion.

 

Let us look at some benchmarks this is with the 2.4 MB AL verse the 2.4 and 2.53ghz Sony Z using the 9300GS 256 DDR3 ram. Whether the 9400M card is better or not seems to depend if you are using DDR3 ram or what amount of VRAM you have. I have read a few times that the 9400M is better than the 9300GS but people offer up no proof.

Anyway benchmarks speak for themselves. The 9400M is more powerful than what has gone before but looking at the facts i have seen it does not have the edge over all laptops that are using a 9300GS card. In fact it performs more or less about the same as the DDR3 VRAM 9300GS 256+ cards but the slight edge seems to go to the 9300GS card.
The MB with the 2.4 processor scores 2138 in Futremark 06 and this is with a 1024x768 resolution and the Z with 256VRAM DDR3 VRAM and the 2.4 processor scored 2245 so if we stick to the facts we can see that the 9400M is not any better.
The Lenovo with a 1280x800 resolution with the 9300GS 256 DDR3 VRAM card manages 2191 in the 3DMark 06 test. Using a lower resolution like the MB would have yielded better results.

Here are some other test results for the Z this is the high end model with the 2.53 processor.
Cinebench R9.5 (Single CPU Render Test) Sekunden 49,00
Cinebench R9.5 (Multiple CPU Render Test) Sekunden 26,00
Performance Test (Pass Mark Rating) Punkte 717,10
Geekbench Punkte 334,60
Povray 3.6 (CPU) Sekunden 909,10


Here are some results for the 2.4 MB. This test result and the one above was taken from the notebookjournal.de website reviews of both of these laptops.

Performance Test (Pass Mark Rating) Punkte 658
Cinebench R9.5 (Multiple CPU Render Test) Sekunden 28
Cinebench R9.5 (Single CPU Render Test) Sekunden 52
Geekbench Punkte 267
Povray 3.6 (CPU) Sekunden 989

Also it is not possible to clean the dust behind the MB's screen without removing the screen of your laptop.

 

MastaMarek,

Take it just a little easier. You're not getting paid. No one is going to compensate you for your ardent, albeit passionate defense.

Though, I believe you can get paid to do a review on this site. Keep that in mind for the future. But the trick is, you have to be an early adopter of the technology and be first or perhaps second to review it. And you'll get a name tag that says "NBR reviewer." It a pretty cool prop to display. at least I think so. I'll never get one or the chance to review. I'm not an early enough adopter. I usually wait to make a purchase. iLike to seriously weight the pros and cons and assess my needs presently and in the immediate future. Like to also keep up with tech news to see what's coming out and when before I take the leap.

You know what I do like, though? When people post critical info on a product, biased or otherwise, so you can pause to think about what you might be getting yourself into. Always best to hear/read what might be wrong with a product from actual owners or people in the know. Cons are what will save you time and money. Pros are what may compensate for the cons. But I think it best to leave all the cheerleading and such to the manufacturers. Not like they're going to give you the straight dope. Know what I mean then?

It's always cool though, to report how much one enjoys their purchase. A lot of times, in their praise you can relate to how they are using their purchase relative to how you might use it if you had it and gain insight into the niggles and bugaboos that might also annoy you. That's what I love about this place. Just an invaluable wealth of info. Cuts through the marketing nonsense and gets to the real pleasures or disappointments of notebook ownership. Even the fanbois when let alone in their respective area of the site, illuminate the problems they are having with certain aspects so you can glean the truth of the matter.

 

We're talking about dust inside the display, here, not on top of the glass.

 

good morning everyone, glad to see you guys didn't stop argueing...

try this question:
is the new macbook worth buying over the old one? that is what the artical is about

PS: MastaMarek, stop triple posting, combine it all into one post. maybe by the time we end this there will be less than a 1000 posts...

 

Ok guys,today I thought about this editorial...and I have to admit that I was acting like a fanboy...also,I had a conversation with my dads friend,who said that: "you must only buy things that you need and things that you can justify the price of it" and asked me to act like a sales man and try to convince him to pay more for apple ...and I really couldn't do that...sure,it has macos and "new staff",but my arguments were too weak....

So,my conclussions-
1)I want to apologize for my "rushing" and maybe attacking comments.hope that you ll forgive me
2)I thought that tho apple's costs more,we just can't live with it,cos we need wealthy competition,like in ATI VS nVidia and Intel VS AMD.
3)I think that new MB/P are good,but this time I really can't convince myself to pay that much for it...sure,if i had lots of $,I might,but sadly...

 

I'm speechless.

Is this some kind of Jedi mind trick?

 

^sorry?I don't get what are you trying to say.

No,I just spoke with a man,who is like 25 years in computer industry,and he explained me things rather well!he told me that getting an old gen macbook pro will be the best deal(if I still want a apple)

 

Ok, that would suck.

 

There's nothing to forgive. You were never being a fanboy or portraying fanboy-like attributes. Let's face it, you're an esteemed poster here who has contributed greatly and positively.

If there's any fault, it's that you were trying to maintain a certain standard to the board which has made this board great and because of your experiences with this subject matter felt it would dissolve some of the well garnered credibility of the site. Guess what? You were partly right - as some do see it that way for various reasons mostly surrounding the charge of bias. As if bias is a dirty word and never an asset.

So no worries. You're still head and shoulders above the majority of posters here and will continue being an esteemed "go-to" poster for information and insight.

 

^thanks man,I appreciate it!Actually,I talked with couple of our members and they told me that,so I think that I should change my attitude.cos I am not a kind of person who doesn't accept his mistakes

 

Good hear that doc

 

2.0: You say bias isn't a bad thing, but I disagree when it comes to comparisons. If you're reviewing a single product, it's hard to be biased in a bad way, since you're simply reviewing how you like/dislike the product, so in that respect I agree with you that this can only be helpful.

However, for comparisons (especially one like this where it seems the reviewer hasn't even tried the new laptops), bias can be very bad, because not everyone uses the same standards to distinguish which laptop is better. In this case, while the Dell Studio 13 is a better value for the author than the new MacBook, this is absolutely not the case with many others, as testified by people like Natadiem in this thread.

This article is potentially harmful because someone could be influenced to buy a Dell Studio 13 in favor of the new MacBook, and be very unhappy with their purchase because the article omits several vital differences (weight, build quality, etc.) other than price.

The arguments for the new MacBook are very strong, it's just that they're not strong reasons for everyone. Some people prefer the durability of the aluminum shell. Some people prefer the sleek look. Some people prefer the large glass clickable touchpad, etc. Others do not.

Very well said!