2016 and Beyond: What are we missing in laptops/notebooks?

The only way you might move seamlessly from one device to tne next, right now and in the foreseeable future, is within apple's hyper-enclosed ecosystem, to be honest. At least so far as you need a laptop/desktop to do serious stuff, a chromebook is probably even handier as the google assistant is better than siri right now. But for microsoft-licensed tech...not happening, especially since microsft has effectively abandoned most "smart" markets and products.

 

Honestly, I’d rather have a keyboard and mouse/touchpad/etc than to have a voice-controlled/hand-gesture anything. It’s hard enough to get voice-controlled software to work well with whatever cherry-picked voices used during development/testing, let alone anyone with a “weird” accent, speech impediments, etc. Similar issue applies for hand gestures; not all gestures are universal ( https://savageminds.org/2008/09/28/how-not-to-signal-stop/ gives an interesting example).

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/244934/...mory-kits-up-to-ddr4-5066mhz-at-computex-2018

They introduced sodimms capable of 4200 MT/s now ( 4x8GB kit )

 

Did I already mention cooling? Like how I'd rather have a thick laptop that can sustain extended gaming use...rather than something "thin and chic" like the gigabyte I have?

I tried playing Overload in 4k on my laptop...and it will do it splendidly....for about 10m until the GPU is hot enough to boil water. It's sad when you know your display/gpu can handle the game...but he form factor makes it choke. So I'm stuck playing 1600x900 because anything higher disagrees with the GPU.

P.S.
CPU/GPU fans are both set to 100% manually.

 

I think there's room for both types of systems. The fact that "thin and light" is currently more common and trendy is disheartening for some, but big thick desktop replacements with big cooling systems aren't really going anywhere.

 

I'm not saying i want a 5" laptop. But there's a lot more to be said for MSI's 15" form factor & the cooling it can provide...than Gigabyte's. I get that this is a niche market. It's unfortunate, because it's the market I'M IN...and a desktop is not a viable option for someone on the go as much as I am.

 

True. I think it's going to be a while before anyone's expectations can include 4K, cool, quiet, ok or better FPS, and 15.6/slim though.

 

Well for whatever it's worth, I will compromise on size AND noise. If you built me a 4k with a 1070 in a 15" that was 2" thick and had fan noise like sitting next to an A/C unit--but it NEVER had heat issues...I'd be interested.

 

x2 I believe the next development for mobile computing will need to see better solutions for cooling, in order to really progress with performance.

 

This Everki Titan: https://www.everki.com/products1/18...iendly-laptop-backpack-fits-up-to-18-4-detail

Daily driver.

 

Every gaming laptop should have a full gaming keyboard with hardware access like this...
https://imgur.com/q7cCs4G

 

Totally agreed

I'm not sure if there would be nuff space for Numpad in most lappys, but having to carry a G810 with me is kinda bad since it is so heavy, and having a mechanical keyboard, or at least a good one, would be super awesome for a lappy

 

And so should the obsession on thin and light.

It's not a fancy trend, in any light. Just see how glorious that setup in the picture is!
Then see what "light and thin" does to that, then weep at the reality that companies would rather invest in R&D catering to that breed of wankers instead of hardware like that above.

 

Look, GPU architectures such as Nvidia's Pascal are technological marvels.
You'd assume that this "benefit" would result in better design decisions (for both NVIDIA and OEMs) towards better built hardware, but nope. It turned out to be a base for marketing shills (The "Max-Q" cancers) to take over and to sell you "enthusiast-grade" hardware (Clevo, take notes) that's crippled at production (without the likes of Prema and Mr Fox, et al, Clevos would be trash) at steep mark-ups.

What I truly want post 2018 and forwards?

Bloody listen to the feedback from your consumers, OEMs. Pass frequently through these forums and act upon threads like these before marketing deps take over.

 

Thin and light is indeed nice but manufacturers always feel the need to cut performance for whatever reason instead of investing in R&D figuring out how to deliver the same power/performance in a thin/light form factor with adequate cooling, pretty much what you said. The 1070 max q is pretty much a 980 ti. They are pretty much selling last gen products with minor changes and a new label. Lets call it "MAX-Q", it sounds powerful." LOL

Preach!!!!!!!! Seriously, the companies would have far better customer loyalty along with better profits overall if they would just listen to us. We know what we want and we know what we are willing to pay. All they have to do is produce it and sell it. I guess the best thing to do when a company releases a crappy product is to make sure the world knows the product is crap so that the company putting it out loses enough money so that they reconsider their product strategy for future roll outs. They only make their decisions based on profits so hit them where it hurts. Thankfully the internet is a thing and word travels fast about how crappy nvidia max-q GPUs are.

 

I said earlier that I'd rather have a thick laptop that will handle torture in stride--than something pretty that wants to choke or die every time i throw heavy use at it. It's rather silly that we have so many brands that are basically trying to sell virtually the same chassis across multiple product lines with only cosmetic changes and some hardware differences.

Is it really THAT difficult to have what is essentially only 2 chassis for any form factor? Even if you were offering a 14", 15" and 17"--you could keep the lid/display/camera virtually identical between the two "sizes" offered for each display size. Keep the same keyboards, speakers, backlighting, etc from a "thin design". So really all you'd need is a thicker base at each display size...and the r&d on that can be easily combined with designing a cooling solution for high-powered GPU/CPU layouts. Potentially even more helpful is if you work with Nvidia and ATI directly with the understanding that the internal configuration will remain static; vents will always be in the same general location--same for intakes, speakers, etc. That might actually spur some uniformity in the industry and improve cooling options, rather than each end MFG trying to invent something on their own.

As I see it, you'd have about 70-80% parts compatibility (possibly more) between a thin (<1") and thick (up to 3") laptops. And you'd now be catering to a market that doesn't really get any service as of yet. Let's go one further though.

What if the thicker chassis & improved cooling was simply an option for the laptop? Or what if it was offered aftermarket as a plug-play option for consumers? Perhaps even a modular-build style, where the display and all of the wiring in the lid had a uniform connector that was easily accessible w/o disassembling? This could even mean that older displays from the company could potentially be mated to a newer chassis/hardware--saving consumers money and eliminating the need to keep redesigning the lid/display with each new model.

What if the keyboard was similarly plug/play? Granted, all of these plug/play may be proprietary size/connections unique to the manufacturer...but consumers now have OPTIONS. Instead of this onsey, twosey "have to rip apart the case to add these modifications later" options--consumers could simply snap-on and plug in whatever they wanted. Similar to the modular smartphone idea--but more more viable; most everything remains proprietary to one manufacturer, the form factor is larger, and there's no concerns about a device like a laptop coming apart as you stuff it in your pocket 50 times per day.

 

But, this is obviously far too difficult for them; plus, it requires expending time, effort and money, all of which they don't want to be burdened with. From all outward appearances they simply don't care. Sad, but true. The only customers they pretend to listen to are those that are already drinking the Kool-Aid and accepting of the filth they are offering. If what the rest of us want does not fit their agenda, then they want us all to do this:

 

Related to the clusterfuck that Apple has been "fixing" of late:

And yet the so-called "i9 turdbook with OSX" cannot maintain Turbo over load. This still cannot dissuade Mac fanbois from buying them. And you wonder how the likes of Apple keep rolling in green.

See that cancerous Reddit thread on the recent Apple "fix" and you'll see what I mean.

 

What fix can there be?

The thing tries to have an i9 CPU, with less cooling than an i3 or lower requires. It is impossible to cool that off, even an i7-6700HQ was overheating on thin gaming laptops because even 45W is hard to cool if you try to do it without proper phsyics allowed setups...

 

A product recall, with the promise of a new build with a vastly re-designed cooling and emission system. Apple has betrayed its' Pro users by releasing a product that's defective by design and function.

And this is why that stunt they're pulling off is inexcusable. They've had time, resources and experience to design newer, better built hardware.

Do vendors never learn? What's the point of having R&D if user feedback is never taken when designing new products?

Apple has no business making "trash". They're a premium vendor, and this seems to have slipped their mind.

 

Maybe it's just me and maybe I'm cynical, but I think that those who purchase Apple products get precisely what they deserve.

 

Hey, I just noticed you are running hyperx impact 2666mhz ram. Could you do me a favor and screenshot all the ram timings in either CPU -z or aida64 please? i'm going to try to push my hyperx impact 2400mhz ram to 2666mhz but I need the general timings to enter into my bios. Would be a great help!

 

Sure, perhaps this will help?

 

Navigate to Motherboard > Memory and you'll see the timings.

 

I need all the timings. I have the timings for 2400mhz, I need the timings for 2666mhz. They can be found in aida64/cpu-z. Here is an example.

 

They're there in the report.

 

The report only shows the primary timings for all the speeds. I need the primary and secondary timings to have a general baseline to work with. If you have Aida64, please screenshot them and post it. I will forever send good vibes your way

 

My apologies.

I'll attach them as soon as the Q6 is up and running.

 

Here comes.

 

Sometimes, I'm amazed at how far we've come in terms of hardware and performance. And at the same time, baffled at the number of steps backwards that laptop OEMs and ODMs take to cripple and overprice their hardware.

This is truly a battle for excellence, fought in inches.

A few highlights:

(a). Webcams: To what deity must we sacrifice virgins to to get anything slightly above mediocre when it comes to webcams (and webcam placements)?

(b). On upgradeability: BGA isn't a viable upgrade path. BGA makes no sense whatsoever. It's wasteful, environmentally and financially. The same applies to GPUs. We have MXM, a standard that every vendor SHOULD have implemented BY NOW. Why solder **** to motherboards? What does that save you, as an OEM/ODM? Processor and GPU sockets? Solder? Manufacturing costs?

(c). On cooling: Few, if at all, any Coffeelake-based mobile SKUs can maintain their rated performance on most systems available now. At this rate, you have to wonder: What quantifies as an upgrade, selling new hardware or a constant, noteworthy improvement to both build quality and performance? Taking one as a trade-off for the other is moronic.

**** this.

 

I'd guess that soldering is done both to insure against shifting while the laptop is being transported...and to force owners to upgrade.

As far as webcams, sure....but then again, I'm so often on crappy wifi on the go, I don't want or need even FHD.

I'd guess that the reason hardware is overpriced is because of all the god-forsaken cryptocurrency farmers who are artificially driving the market costs higher. I'll be elated when those farmers all get taken to the cleaners.

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FWIW though, this kind of chicanery has been going on for years. The things you list are only more recent. The conspiracy to force everyone from WUXGA to 1080p was not something I and many others--ever agreed to. The "dark ages" of laptops is only just now beginning to emerge into a new renaissance.

 

On top of the bullcrap with thin (re crippled) notebook crap everywhere nowadays and bga cancer, how about readily available service manuals or at least schematic. You know so I don't get that feeling when the crapbook fails because of some bean counter's decision to save money and flood us with ****TY thermal design, and the thing fails 3 months after warranty expires. Wouldn't that be nice?

 

Assembly and maintenance manuals SHOULD be standard with every purchase made.

Having to rely on "authorized repair centers" (for even the most basic stuff) is a cash grab. Apple knows this, and so will your wallet when you visit these guys.

 

It's not even Apple (they do happen to be one of the worst ones out there when it comes to trying to keep you or me fron trying to fix one of their things if it ever craps out) who I had in mind when I comes to this thin+light+ lol gl finding repair manuals.

Thing that got to me with this is my FX502VM. Asus had the bright idea to join the thin and not durable bandwagon. Then they did the extra special bottom of the screen covering a good 25 or 30 percent of my exhaust vents if in the upright position. None of this bodes well for this laptop surviving road trips and plane rides I'll be doing in the coming years. At least the temperature is *controlled* accorsing to HW monitor after undervolting, case mods, and some exhaust fans.

I guess this is what I get for trying to go budget concious though. At least I got it for under 700 USD and not saying no to thin lite crap with built in planned obsolence

 

Because there is demand for thinner and lighter laptops, and since Intel removed the pga socket, you have to solder it.
Even if you had pga CPUs, it's really hard to reduce thickness and weight when you have an MXM card.

 

Better more expensive technology for something not commonly used? Yes they are crap but they are that because that's enough for 99% of customers (50%+ that probably never use it).
Placement? If the upper border is to be removed for aesthetics it have to be placed elsewhere. And if it should still remain in the new, almost nonexistent, border then it have to be extremely thin,
which (if possible at all) means worse picture quality.

I'd prefer a slightly larger border in combination with a better quality camera. It'd add extra costs though as it would require costly development of a cheap component.

Manufacturing cost, reliability and so less warranty repairs, more space for other components, potentially better cooling (no socket between CPU and mainboard) etc. There are alternative systems with sockets already out there of course but they are larger. Wouldn't be surprised if the majority of those are never upgraded.
A notebook computer isn't the same as a desktop - it's hard to get as reliable as a desktop socket in a much flatter format. Especially if expecting users that don't understand how a 3 legged spring is supposed to work and don't use the correct torque. Add the complications of more heat cycling of components... BGAs are used for good reasons.

That said personally I'd rather have a slightly thicker and slightly heavier upgradable machine. Probably more on the level of replacing the whole motherboard though

Not a question. Selling new hardware is always the goal even if the new hardware is worse than the old (16:10 vs 16:9 screens for instance).

 

even if theres a demand, there are already a ton of thin/light weight bga options out there. yet they wonder why people are dissatisfied about their junk machines.

 

I think the biggest thing we are missing is the lack of 3rd party OS options. Microslop or MacOS. MS's vision is to turn PCs into Thin Clients. Dumb terminals where users can't do anything except catch X-rays. No longer will we be able to download apps from the internet. They will have to be processed through the OS owner's App Store to ensure it walks the party line.

Censorship of technical content. Restrictions on what endusers can do. And all of us forced to bend over and take it with a smile on our faces.

 

Who is dissatisfied? Ppl on this forum? Maybe. But the market as a whole seems pretty satisfied with the thin and lights.
Remember that most consumers aren't very informed. If it works reasonably well, they won't complain.
Only more informed consumers will care about "throttling"* or temperatures when using the laptop for more than 2 hours.
I'm not saying it's the ideal solution, I just don't agree that people are dissatisfied. From the sales values, they seem pretty ok with the current laptops in the market.

*(since it's a non binding value for maximum speed I won't consider a chip is throttling when it does not reach the max turbo speed)

Every OS has it's own app store. And it seems to me that Windows, for now, does not limit you from downloading and installing apps outside the app store.
And you can install some GNU/Linux distro. It's a decent solution, even for gaming.

 

people will be dissatisfied most of the time, just need to show it to them they've bought garbo.

 

I'm sure there is more dissatisfied people than you think. If not you wouldn't see articles like the one in PukeGreen. + the one right below.

 

These who own the GL-series line from Asus: Are they all affected by this? I had a repair once where the client tried to explain to me how, depending on the hinge position, the vents can be partially obstructed. Her setup had the 6700HQ and a GTX 1070, its' the exact model I can't recall right now.

Apparently, on this particular build, you had to leave the hinge in a certain position to ventilate properly.

 

It appears to be the case with at least with the fx502 and it's bigger brother, the GL502 from skylake and kabylake models. No idea with the new coffeelake ones whether they fixed this somewhat substantial oversight or not. Your client likely had a gl702 based on that spec you gave me. Not surprised in the least if one of the high end models (gl702) is affected as well. The chassis design is fairly similar across all 3.

 

Thanks for proving my point, a normal consumer will not care.

One article that was only posted due to the i9 debacle from Apple. If they had the firmware that prevented to i7 from being worse than the i9 in from the start no one would care.

The industry has a "problem". To improve performance Intel and AMD can no longer rely on manufacturing process shrink, so they crank frequencies and core count up.
For a desktop PC this isn't a problem, most people have decent cooling and even stock coolers are better now.
But in a laptop that ideally shouldn't be heavier than 3Kg it's getting very hard to have a proper cooling system.
Even after the recent complaints, the truth is that currently ppl have very good performance in laptops/DTRs. You have CPU/GPUs that can rival desktop counter parts. A thing that would be hard some years ago (at least in the graphics department).

 

im a normal consumer. people can be good or interested in one or two things. we are all normal consumers, we just happen to know computer and interested in it. though i get your point, i thought i'd point that out to you, sometimes you just gotta let companies know dont have to accept their bs.

 

You are an informed one. I'm tempted to state that 90% of people don't care to read reviews, and the other 10% only half of it dig a bit deeper that some online reviews.

I also forgot to add that I find the current state of CPU performance appalling. If you can't reach a certain level of sustained performance, please don't advertise it.

 

I want to see all the wasted surface area of laptop screen backs put to better use. I want a machined aluminum panel shell with cooling fins and a closed loop liquid circulating design worked in through the hinges for some passive radiative/convection cooling. Weight weenies be damned!

 

(1) I would like to see (21:9) 2560 x 1080 displays in laptops.

(2) Create a "form factor" for laptops. Standardize the dimensions and locations of internal parts.
Create coolers which can be used for these standardized laptops. off-the-shelf coolers for laptops would be so fun!
As much as possible, use desktop parts because they are often cheaper than laptop parts.

 

Sliding laptop screens like Razer's project valerie but different in these ways:

1. Silding screens are removable. I can have the laptop either like any other or attach the sliding screens onto it. This is more convenient for someone like me: a uni student away from home. Use the extra screens in my flat or LAN parties, leave them when going to lectures and carry them back home for the holidays
   
2. 1080p / 1440p 120 / 144 hz panels. Triple 4K gaming currently doesn't make sense with our current hardware. Even 1440p is a stretch.

I'm hopefully gonna work on a little DIY project to implement this
Just waiting on some funds to come through to buy all the materials needed and scouting some public workshops to work on it.

 

There are little screens that do that though I haven't seen or heard anyone that actually got anything from them.

One of the ones I was interested in was powered by the USB-C port. Was pretty cool.

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