** 1070 laptop: "bd prochot" causing cpu throttling to 800MHz and stuttering **

There is a way to disable NOS, but only @Shehary has seen this setting and it was uncovered by complete accident.
No one has been able to find the option again. Even he could not find it again. It seems to be some engineering setting that was overlooked and was somehow unlocked due to a bug of some sort (when trying the Bios Advanced menus unlock key combination). There were two settings he said:

1) Hybrid Power enabled/disabled
2) Battery Voltage (100 values).

But no one seems to know how to activate it.
MSI claims it doesn't exist. That's bullcrap. Of course it exists. Shehary wouldn't lie to us. He saw it. But if MSI claims it exists then they would have to admit they were LYING to all of us for years, saying it's not possible to disable Battery Boost when it is possible to disable it.
Unplugging the battery doesn't disable battery boost. It CUTS the maximum AC allowed power to the point where battery boost would actually get enabled.

*Edit*
I just read the original post again.
I believe on GTX 1070 + 7700HQ systems, Battery Boost gets enabled after 160W power draw.
115W (1070 at max TDP) + 45W (7700HQ) at max TDP is 160W right there. Then you have LCD, peripherals, mainboard and DDR RAM+drives power. So this is where "NOS" would turn on and start using power from the battery.

But instead, you are getting BD Prochot?
It should be using battery boost.
sounds like battery boost isn't working correctly, and instead of using NOS to "combine" battery and AC up to 230W, it's trying to throttle the CPU instead.

Are you getting battery drain while gaming?

Can you please do the following?

Download RW Everything.
Install it
Click the EC TAB.
Do combined load on CPU+GPU with what would 'trigger' BD Prochot before.

Look at EC RAM registers 46 and 47.
Is there a 00/00 in them, or values like C1/FF or something, with them changing every second?
EC RAM registers 46 and 47 are the battery drain rate.

 

What do you mean with "BGA", the cpu socket? and why is that bad?

(im a noob, sorry)

Thats why i created this thread, but as you can see no one cares, only you and a few other members, and by the way, i thank you all for all the help and feedback provided.

We have another thread on msi forum and Zwame forum.

Sorry, i turned off PM, because i keep receiving messages about the 1070 crash and about other issues.

Keep using this thread, so everyone can read what you write, im not the only one with this issue as you can see, and im a noob lol

All information is in the first post of this thread, yes, @heliada, @Pedro69, and me, have this bd prochot issue.

We found out about it while playing AC Origins (thats why i keep telling you to install the game).

Seems like AC Origins equals running 2.5 benchmarks at the same time, and Hunt Showdown equals 3 benchmarks running at the same time.

@heliada laptop is MSI GT72VR 6RE with i7-6820HK yes, @Pedro69, same laptop as me, GT72VR 7RE with 7700HQ.

Pedro and i, are portuguese (Portugal), we use this forum Zwame to talk about notebooks as well, theres a official msi representitve there, called @msi_expert .

If you guys have some spare time, come over there, you can write in english no problem, the MSI representative, after all the information and facts provided, keep telling us, the engineers in poland dont know sh*t about this.

There are at least two more portuguese with GT72VR 7RE , 7700HQ, with this problem, and one with the g-sync flickering issue as well.

So in total:

BD PROCHOT: 5 people affected

G-Sync Flickering: 2 of those 5 people affected

No battery drain, here.

Ok, i will do that.

When you say do a combined load on CPU + GPU, i do that with what? a benchmark or game? and which one?

I will tell @Pedro69, to do it too.

 

Where i can check EC RAM? Is this section?





@Falkentyne Some stats of HWinfo when BD-Prochot appears.

 

Interesting read, thank you @Papusan.

If my laptop was in fact using NOS system, how much battery drain, should i expect, after one hour of gameplay for example?

 

No battery drain??
That is the problem.
There should be slow battery drain.

I had GT72VR Dominator Pro with 7700HQ and GTX 1070.
There was slow battery drain, about 10%/hour when running a CPU powerful game+ GPU.

Yes, please do combined test. HIGH CPU LOAD + HIGH GPU load at the same time. Do not use AIDA64 or synthetic benchmark.
Best to use VALLEY OR HEAVEN BENCHMARK + CPU stress test (prime95) together. You can disable AVX instructions in prime95 if you want, Open the file in pirime95 folder called LOCAL.TXT, and add line:

CPUSupportsAVX=0
CPUSupportsFMA3=0

Then run VALLEY (or heaven) benchmark and prime95 at the same time.
SET BRIGHTNESS LEVEL TO MAXIMUM.
Even better: plug in EXTERNAL MOUSE AND KEYBOARD to increase power draw more.

Try to overclock the video card a little bit too.

Run throttlestop.
check limit reasons.

Then let it run
Do you get BD prochot now?

if YES: Does battery slowly drain? (<10%/hour) rate?

What happens if you DISABLE BD Prochot in throttlestop?
Does the battery start draining now?

In the EC RAM page (RW EVERYTHING-->EC),
Look at values in location " 46" and "47".

00/00 means there is no battery drain.

in the screenshot above, they are between location 44 (has 1D there) and location 47 (has E7 there). There is 00/00 right there in that screenshot.

If those values change it means battery is being used as "NOS" (boost).

Please check.

Make sure you use very high CPU load + HIGH GPU load when checking this.

Between 5%-10%/hour if 100% full CPU/GPU load with MAXIMUM BRIGHTNESS.

Yes that is the EC RAM page.

 

When battery (NOS) is active (HYBRID BATTERY POWER), these two values will change from 00 to a higher value. This is battery DRAIN RATE registers (two):
(Edit) because I shouldn't be tagging the wrong people
@Papusan @Pedro69 @streetunder
Note: when using battery power (no AC) these will always be at higher values too.
On AC power, with no "NOS" (Hybrid Power) active, they will be 00 00.
When battery begins being 'combined' with AC, these values will change.



Please load CPU+GPU to maximum load

MAX BRIGHTNESS
Plug external keyboard and mouse.
Prime 95
Valley or Heaven benchmark.
Maybe overclock GPU a little.

Look for BD Prochot in Throttlestop.
When BD PROCHOT comes on, look in EC RAM.

Look for these values in 46 and 47.
They should NOT be 00.
Properly working GT72VR should use NOS (Battery Boost / Hybrid Power) and take power from battery at high watts system load.

 

Ok, i understood now...will testing that right now...and about hwinfo, you see any issue on stats?

 

Yes I do see a problem.
Your CPU is only using 24W of power.
But this flag is being set:

"Turbo Attenuation" YES
And BD Prochot

Turbo Attenuation means some pre-existing condition(s) (power/current/temperature limits/VRM etc) are causing the CPU to throttle
You are not even at the 45W of TDP.

If I am correct. the EC Register 46 and 47 will always have "00" on your system. at FULL LOAD Heavy CPU + Heavy GPU. am i right?

 

Till now, im testing prime95 with small fft and Valley benchmark and the values are in 00 00

 

You have BD Prochot right now, right? and values are 00, 00 ?

 

I never got a BD-Prochot with stress tests, even right now, 00 00 values...prime95 still working with high load on cpu and valley with high load on gpu...still not got a BD-Prochot.

 

What a fail by MSI.

@Pedro69, how do you see that big page full of information in HWinfo?

@Falkentyne, how do i use the RW program, just leave it open in the EC PAGE while i stress the system?

Just install AC Origins man, i keep telling you ! why you dont listen?

- Hunt Show Down, or AC Origins!

Look what @heliada says:

I keep getting no BD prochot on benchmarks, but ac origins and hunt show down, 1 minute and puff theres it.

 

Yes, but don't leave it open forever.
Sometimes there are glitches. Not sure if its RWE problem or EC problem, but occasionally, certain values will randomly change to 00000000000 or FFFFFFFFF and then back to regular., it's very rare, but I have seen the laptop reset by itself, or switch to battery power "suddenly" then back to AC, because RWE was open, and an EC register "changed" by itself. No damage, just a little scary when it happens.

When I had GT72VR Dominator Pro (7700HQ + GTX 1070), with heavy 3D game load, battery would drain close to 10%/hour.

 

Try VALLEY BENCHMARK (OR HEAVEN BENCHMARK) and PRIME95, please.
please listen to me.

PRIME95+VALLEY benchmark.
monitor MAXIMUM Brightness.
use extermal keyboard and mouse
RGB keyboard or LED keyboard + LED/RGB mouse is probably best.

Maybe even plug your phone into USB port too. And speakers or other.
Try to max power from game+USB ports+screen.

 

10% a hour? im surprised. (this is retarded and will harm the battery, maybe the battery will last less years because of this, never heard of this NOS BS before)

Well i think, i saw some battery drain some times, but never 10%, and i played for hours straight or leave the game open while do other stuff.

Maybe, battery drain to 95%, no more then that, i dont remember the battery reaching 90% ever!

So that must be the problem, we dont need more tests.

I play with a razer mouse, XB1 controller and a G6 phone, using the usb ports, is that enough? lol

 

96% baterry atm, still not have a single BD-Prochot, values of 46 and 47 still on 00 00.

 

You started the test with 96% ?

 

Yes, as i said, in my case i only can see bd-prochot in high load games like mafia 3.

 

10% / hour is only at maximum power
When you are close to 230W.
In most cases you will only drain about 5%/hour.
For 10% you need external peripherals, full power from GPU, full power from CPU, full power from monitor, external USB devices (Sennheiser GSX-1000, Logitech mouse, Ducky keyboard), etc, and system/dram/motherboard power.

But I'm asking directly: are you getting BD Prochot with these tests ?
(Valley (or heaven) 3d benchmark + prime95 + peripherals?)

If NO, are EC RAM register 46 and 47 changing from 00 to higher value?
You know I don't have your guys laptop.
I am limited in what I can do.
So you have to try my tests, not your own tests.

You should be getting battery drain with the setup and tests I gave (meaning: EC RAM register 46 and 47 should change from 00).

If you want to see what i am talking about, unplug the AC Adapter and watch what happens to EC 46 and 47....

 

There is a very good reason I am asking for these tests.
I want to know if you are getting "BD Prochot" flag, instead of "NOS" (battery boost).
I want to know if BD Prochot is coming on because NOS (battery boost) is not working, and you are being limited to 160W total system power.

I have seen similar behavior on "GT73EVR" EC 17A1EMS1.112.
If system power exceeds 330W, the EC will "cut" the CPU to 800 mhz even on VERY LIGHT GPU load (e.g. 115W GTX 1070). BUT BD Prochot will not be turned on. But CPU will still be 800 mhz.
EC is setting CPU to 800 mhz without turning on BD Prochot.

This "problem" does NOT happen on EC 17A1EMS1.108 OR 17A1EMS1.109.
(How was i able to exceed 330W power draw? I tricked the EC by using a bios setting in the unlocked Bios, which made the system think it was using 337W of power with only 140W....)

 

Run AC Origins or Hunt Showdown, you will get bd prochot constantly.

 

My laptop is not affected by this. As I said--again--I have GT73VR. I am not affected. AC Origins cannot cause BD Prochot just because it's a game. You also forget I am using a 195W GTX 1070. Your GTX 1070 is 115W.

My laptop cannot use BD PROCHOT unless it is on battery power.
My laptop will instead use CPU POWER LIMIT 1 and CPU POWER LIMIT 2 throttling --to cut CPU power to 45W TDP (my CPU is unlocked, I can draw over 100W), if I exceed the "AC power rating" power draw.

Yours seems to be using BD Prochot, so I want to know why.

Can you please download Valley benchmark or heaven benchmark and run these tests? If you refuse to do this I cannot help you anymore.
I think you STILL do not understand ANYTHING I'm trying to do for you.

i'm TRYING to see if NOS (Battery boost) is working on your system and pedro's system!
I had a THEORY, that BD PROCHOT is coming on because you are reaching the maximum "SYSTEM POWER of 160W, and "NOS" is not working, so BD PROCHOT is coming on.

 

@Falkentyne If i remove AC power i get this:



But if i put again AC power, i not get any warn on TS...and yes values changed from 00 00 when unplug the AC power.

 

Yes, this is proper behavior.
When AC is unplugged, CPU will be power limit throttled and BD prochot will come on to cut CPU power more when video card is being used. Mine is the same.

What I need to see is if the values change from "00" WHEN YOU ARE ON AC POWER.
Because they are SUPPOSED To change from 00. it means battery is being drained (NOS)--battery boost.
This happens at >160W system total power.

That is why i want you to run:
1) Valley benchmark (or) heaven benchmark (Unigine).
2) Prime95 small FFT. combine with #1 together.
3) max monitor brightness.
4) plug extra USB devices into laptop (Mouse, keyboard, phone, speakers/USB speaker sound, etc).

Then check throttlestop limit reasons for BD Prochot and check EC RAM for values > 00,00

 

@Falkentyne That not happen, values still on 00 00 And without BD-Prochot.

Values 46 and 47 only change if the battery is being charged.

 

I just ran the benchmarks you told, and no bd prochot at all, stuff connected to usb + screen at 100% .

EC Page still 00 00, no BD PROCHOT

Battery still 96%

 

Right, that is not normal behavior.
On my GT72VR, I was getting battery drain if I exceeded 160W of power.

You have the BD prochot problem that @streetunder does, sometimes right?

 

Yes, but i get 800MHz drop and he only 2.7GHz drop. But i only get that issue in games, in stress tests i not get that.

 

And @heliada, gets 800mhz drop too.

But if she turns off bd prochot in TS, she gets 2.7ghz drop like me, on AC Origins.

Why dont you install AC Origins (i gave you the torrent file) or Hunt Showdown (you can refund if you play less then two hours).

You will get bd prochot right away many times,

Im going do it now to see if i see any changes on EC PAGE.

BRB.

 

Screen at 100% (i always have at 100%)
X1 Controller + G6 PHONE + RAZER LED mouse on usb ports

I will post a pic with both prime95 and valley running too, but no bd prochot.

 

Thank you. I need to see that

 

Because a game can NOT cause BD prochot.
I play PUBG. PUBG uses more CPU than AC origins.
I also am not going to pirate software I don't want to use. Plus pirating discussion is NOT ALLOWED on this forum. Period. I know what causes BD Prochot. This game even if i downloaded it will NOT cause it because *I* get NOS (battery boost) if i exceed "NOS" power limit.

The problem is YOUR NOS is NOT WORKING!!!!!

 

How we check if NOS if enable without RWeverything?

https://www.msi.com/faq/nb-684.html

 

I see. I never had battery drain either. Could play for hours and it would stay at whatever % it was at when I started. So maybe the latest EC fw is the issue then? Cause reflashing it did not help, neither did an ec reset. That's what I did try before sending it off. But shouldn't more people get it then? Maybe the reason my laptop seems more affected is because of the unlocked CPU (6820HK) pulling more power than the 7700HQ. Not sure why that would be the case on stock settings though. I will let MSI know when I call to ask about the laptop monday.

 

I think NO ONE here is listening to me.
I had a GT72VR 7RE before.
I RMA"d it for a GT73VR because i didn't like the locked processor.
My "NOS" was working on it
I got 10%/hour battery drain at heavy game load. No BD prochot at all. I didnt know why i was getting battery drain originally but I figured it out.
That's why I'm asking you guys to do a prime95 + valley benchmark test with EC RAM page open and throttlestop open.
Because you SHOULD be getting "NOS" because that's what I got on my GT72VR.

If you are NOT getting NOS, and you are having the BD prochot problem, well THAT IS WHY.
Note:

I can use OCCT PSU test with 190W GTX 1070 (Linpack+furmark) in OCCT, draw 320W and get NO NOS at all.

 

Attention, i only mentioned the torrent, only to test the game, to see how it runs, since theres no demo. (maybe you dont want to spend money or @Pedro69)

I own the original game and season pass, as you can see i have UPLAY opened - https://imgur.com/qIkfAjf

And i have a better solution and 100% legal one, just buy the game on Steam, test it less then one hour, and then ask for a refund, you get money back straight away.

Man, im telling you, AC Origins is crazy game, everybody has problems with this game, look :

Assassin’s Creed Origins Redlining Some CPUs at 100 Percent [Updated]

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/258173-assassins-creed-origins-redlining-cpus-100

PUBG is a walk in a park regarding this game! i own PUBG!

We get you man, i understood the first time.

It is the NOS problem, the laptop does not use the battery, while full load.

@heliada just confirmed no battery drain too.

 

Well, my battery charged to 100% and the values back to 00 00...so i assume that those values only change when battery is being charged.

 

When the battery is being charged, the values change also
its a CHARGE/DISCHARGE RATE.

 

Makes sense, comparing http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/test-gt72vr-gtx-1070-i7-6820hk.795782/ and https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GT72VR-7RE-Dominator-Pro-Notebook-Review.190406.0.html It seems the 7RE reached about 1.136V and 6RE with 6820HK up to 1.183V (and that was not even with prime while the 7RE was tested with prime). Also considering different individual cpu's may have different voltage draw mine could have been drawing more power than your cpu's which would explain why I could also make it happen using other random means. Oh well. So @Falkentyne, how do we fix the NOS? Cause idk what MSI says about my laptop's problem... sadly cannot test anything as my laptop is in Poland. But I know 100% I never had battery drain even with max brightness, gaming mouse attached, headset, external hdd and a phone.
And tbh, why would the laptop not use the power supply till it hits close to 230W but instead start using the battery a lot earlier? That makes no sense.

 

I dont see any GT72VR 7RE on the applicable models list

 

Yeah basically its not supposed to work like that.
MY laptop:
If i unplug the battery, this 'disables' "NOS" completely but also causes EC RAM register "C6" to change from C0/C1 (full power) to 40/41 (limited power).
If the system exceeds 160W of total system power, the CPU will be throttled to 45W TDP, overriding the bios settings (this is done by the EC).

It looks like your system is signaling BD Prochot instead.

 

Because this is MSI's system when the max PSU was only 180 watts, and these PSU's were also prone to "early failure". This was back in the GT72s days.
Please ask @Papusan and @hmscott about this. They know more than I do.

Basically, this "NOS" system was designed so that you could exceed the original 180W power supply limitation by combining battery power (this started before 180W however), and you could draw around 220W this way.

However when 230W and 330W psus hit the market, MSI kept the same system for unknown reasons. I already saw that my 230W psu could pull 280W (!) from the wall before it shuts down. with a TDP modded 1070 I was able to pull 250W to the system before the PSU shut off.

People have been complaining for years. The 230W delta and 330W deltas are NOT substandard PSU's. The 330W delta is good for 380W from the wall (i drew 355 from the wall on it, i could not exceed that with only 195W TDP 1070 (I was using prime95 with AVX, drawing 95W + valley).

 

Yeah it was always my guess that the laptop is wrongly signaling bd prochot, maybe is a bug, or a defective HW, i dont know.

So, what do you think, whats the solution to this problem?

 

I have no idea.
I would say contact MSI. But you would need 1) very good english, and 2) to speak to an engineer, not a regular person.

I would not be happy if I had to contact them about this.

However the "BD Prochot problem" does sort of make "sense"
Because
your laptop already has a TDP of 45W because of the locked processor.
So enforcing a TDP of 45W would not make sense because its already enforced.
So instead it would use BD Prochot.
But for mine, it would use Power Limit 2/Power Limit 1, since I have an unlocked processor.

 

But i still think, that our laptops maybe, the ones we have were not designed to use the Hybrid Power feature.

We are from europe, you from US maybe? Maybe there are some variations of the same model?

How can be possible that only 4 people talk about this bd prochot issue? i think is strange.

1070 crash, i created thread here and msi forum , lots of people came in complaining.

P.S

I´ve just asked on the official GT72VR thread if they get battery drain while playing games, but that thread appears to be a ghost town...

I´ve already asked for feedback a few days ago and nobody came.

@heliada, have unlocked CPU too.

 

@Falkentyne, thank you so much for your help. My English is excellent, it is usually the problem that the person on the other side cannot speak English >.> Anyway I will let them try to figure it out on their own and if they can't I will ask for my money back and rather go for the gt73vr or sth. Unlocked cpu + 1070 was my whole reason to buy it so yeah... Now I regret not spending the extra few hundreds.
@streetunder, keep in mind not many people update their EC firmware or bios. I did when I got the laptop few months ago. Are you on the latest one too?
Latest ec for both 6RE and 7RE are identical: 1785EMS1.107 which would explain why both of us could be affected. Are you using this one?

 

There seems to be version .105 ( http://download.msi.com/archive/frm_exe/nb/1785EMS1.105.zip) and .106 available ( http://download.msi.com/archive/frm_exe/nb/1785EMS1.106.zip) could any of you 2 try to downgrade if you dare? @streetunder, @Pedro69?

 

I think GT73VR in portugal costs more then 3000 euros, so is out of question.

Think about, if the EC from the website had problems, dont you think more people have come complaining?

I mean, i know lots of people dont update the bios / vbios / ec, but i dont see one thread, one thread, nothing online about this.

And i have checked the msi forum of other countries too.

Still, if i can get the previous one (the one that came in my laptop), i will test it, if someone can provide it.

@Kevin@GenTechPC, can you get me the default EC Firmware for the MSI GT72VR 7RE Dominator Pro (7700HQ +1070 GTX) ?

@Falkentyne, did you use this EC on your GT72VR?

 

Two EC? strange, this laptop only had one new firmware which was 107,are you sure is for the GT72VR 7RE?

I dare to test it, if someone can confirm 100% that i can rollback the EC, without any problems... i need 100% confirmation first. @Falkentyne @Kevin@GenTechPC

edit

Yes im using the 107 EC.

 

@streetunder i don't remember if I updated EC or not. I only had the laptop 3 weeks before I returned it to XotiC PC for a GT73VR instead.

Anyway I did some test to show you that you should be getting battery boost if you do my test settings. I did this on GT72VR and got battery drain back when I still had it.

I changed to an "invalid" powerID which caused my 7820HK to be capped at the max non turbo multiplier of x29, set my GTX 1070 to 115W (default is 150W so i set power slider in MSI afterburner to 77%), and then ran Prime95 and Valley together.
My CPU was TDP limited (because of the "invalid" power ID of A0 in EC RAM register E3) to 53W, because that was the max non turbo multiplier, and my GPU was at 115W just like your guys, not overclocked, and I got CPU power limit throttling, and I had battery drain @Papusan

NOS cutoff was 160W (estimated) with 230W original power iD (90), I changed 90 In EC register E3, to A0, which is an illegal value, which forces CPU to be capped at X29. (It was set to 4500 mhz).

you can see EC RAM registers 46 and 47 draining the battery. Battery boost.