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I thought the IMON offset indicates the offset in power draw but It seems like I was wrong. I set my IMON offset at 15000 and I got max power (registered by Aida) similiar to yours at max boost, i.e. ~42W.

During stress test my CPU power is registered as ~36w, which is 6w less than the max power draw. Yours stablized at 28-29w, which is lower than mine, probably due to your lower prochot limit point.

Edit: below link is my power drawn (TS measured) after clock speed stablized.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/attachments/capture-png.161804/

 

I tried all kind of values for IMON and IMON offset, I could not differentiate the settings from the power consumption pattern. Because of this, i dont know how to calculate the actual power consumed based on the artificial value.

Offset 0 and IMON 5 = Offset 31000 and IMON 50 in terms of power consumption pattern.

Edit: GOing for dinner now... will come back and take screenshots of stress test @ 95C

 

I wont be using time window when testing @ 95C... its scary as individual temp spikes are not catered for.. only avg of all temps registered within time window..

 

Ok, done 30mins of Aida, first 15mins was stressing everything, second 15mins excluded GPU.

Stablized @ 3.6GHz, min freq was 3.3GHz
Power stablized @ 36-37W, max was 44W (this is just for reference of power difference)
Voltage max 1.1V, min 0.9V, average of 0.995 (I assume voltage value is measured correctly, hence can be used for comparision between systems, unlike power drawn which is modified by BIOS)

Below are screenshot after turn off GPU Stress.

Power now went up and stayed at 41-42W, full turbo @ 3.9GHz. Temp went down and seemed to stable at 86C.

@sush33king

P/s: Fan is at Cooler Boost, ambient is ~24C. I also try to change the IMON offset value and observe no difference in power measure. Not sure how all the value related.

 

@sush33king , @Le Quan

You have your answer here:

@Le Quan
You need to test again with GPU ticked, because the thermal throttling limits your clocks, which in turn limits your power draw.

If you want to test if your power draw is limited in combined loads, you have to test with a higher thermal throttling limit (don't forget to use max fans).

 

I tested both with and without the GPU ticked. CPU power read 42W without GPU load and 37W with combined load.
Also what I am confused about is the exactly power drawn of CPU. Different value of IMON offset translates to same CPU power measured by TS and Aida, so I'm not sure how to calc the exact CPU power.

 

Actual Power Consumption (Watts) = IMON Scale * Slope / 1.673 ?

 

where did you get those numbers?

 

I was just kidding

Ask @Falkentyne, @raz8020 , dear Prophets, how do we calculate the actual CPU power draw based on the IMON settings? My laptop is lying to me, i don't trust what she is telling me.

 

The IMON slope offset works ONLY WHEN the CPU is under stress, otherwise you wouldn't be able to sustain 3.9Ghz in aida with CPU+FPU.

When your load is combined (CPU+GPU) the imon offset is most probably ignored and the CPU power draw and the total power draw is controlled elsewhere (most probably by the EC, which can override any other power limit).

 

It seems like the IMON offset value is effective (somewhat) during combined load since it's unlikely CPU can maintain 3.6-3.7GHz at 45W limit (given it needs ~60W to hold 3.9GHz). It is also possible that CPU power is reduced because of thermal limit.

 

That is the reason why I mentioned that you should test with a higher thermal limit. If your clocks are maintained at ~3.9Ghz with GPU ticked, then the IMON slope works even under combined loads.

 

Did a test at thermal limit 95C.


CPU = 38.3 watts
CPU+GPU = 38.35
Its the same.


CPU Only power



CPU Only Clock



CPU+GPU Power


CPU+GPU Clock

 

I have no idea what you guys are doing. You're supposed to use negative Imon offset, not positive. And going past 31999 resets it to 0 effectively, where 63999 is the same as 31999.

Imon SLOPE is a multiplicative factor. e.g. 100 = 1.0x. So 50=0.5x. So this should be lower than 100.
IMON OFFSET is a positive or negative increase of the Imon with an amount that doesn't make sense unless you work at Intel. But increasing this slowly makes the CPU increase its reported power consumption (but not real power consumption or amps draw) and decreasing this (NEGATIVE) makes it report less. -31999 and 50 give the most reduction.

The Embedded Controller can read the amps directly from the PSU line, so changing these settings has no effect if the EC is trying to throttle you or increase its "battery boost" because the CPU is using too much power or throttling the CPU because you exceeded a total AC power draw limit,and so on. This is only for preventing "basic" TDP throttling. The EC can override anything it chooses.

 

It is negative. I didnt mention the offset symbol, sorry. The value is 31000. IMON is working perfectly. I just am curious how to calculate the actual CPU watt consumption, not the fake one.

 

I set the prefix negative

 

I tried all kinds of combination but could not see any difference in the power consumption pattern. However, it still works coz i see the same fake CPU Watts. However, if i set default values, the true watt shows itself.

 

Me too.

 

You cant calculate CPU power consumption without a degree in electrical engineering.

It's based on CPU VID and amps. Or rather, vcore and amps.
Power consumption also seems to 'ignore' the "IA DC loadline" setting as this only droops the reported VID (vid drop), but the actual VID going into the CPU itself, while the IA AC setting actually boosts the voltage the CPU is actually USING and then reports that as a "baseline" VID, before the IA DC setting is applied to that.

Actual power draw is (Amps * volts) = Watts.

Good luck finding out how many amps you're using....

 

woha.... thats too much for me to absorb... i thought theres a easy way to get it from the fake watt value... Just curious on how hungry my cpu is when its running on full load. Thanks Falkentyne.

 

Here you go (start from page 38):

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...e-voltage-regulator-down-11-1-guidelines.html

 

I tested with prochot point 99C, no more thermal throttle, power consumption is similar in both case.

 

Sush33king, on your "CPU only clock" graph you left the gpu box ticked so the gpu is also under load which will alter your results.Hence why your 1st and 3rd graphs show identical power usage (38.3watts vs 38.35watts) as its the same test setup in both. Also if you view the "unified" tab in AIda64 it will show clocks, temps, wattage and volts all together making it easier to narrow down the issue.

To get 3.9ghz on all cores and no thermal throttling you will need to do two things, set the IMON offset to between -10000 and -15000, and undervolt your cpu cores + cpu cache. The offset will give the cpu more wattage legroom as this cpu needs around 60watts to maintain that speed on all cores. The voltage offset will lower the core temperatures meaning higher clocks can be achieved. Also due to the relationship between volts/amps and watts (volts*amps=watts), lowering the voltage will allow a higher amp amount to be used whilst sticking to the same watt limit.

On my laptop I've got the offset on -13000 and the undervolt set to -170mv. I still get a bit of throttling (less than 10%) and need to tweak it a bit more to get 3.9ghz and no throttling.

 

@Chipmunk642
Oh, sorry. Heres the correct single cpu screenshots. I dont have the unfied tab, i think coz its a trial version.

 

He probably just put a wrong screenshot. I can comfirm that power is similar in both case if there's no thermal throttling.

 

@Chipmunk642 I quoted the watts right. Le Quan did a test with no throttle, and his results were similar, watt consumption when single CPU stress and CPU+GPU stress is the same.

Edit: My undervolting cant go any lower that 156 mv. Thats the best so far.

 

What settings / adjustments did you use to get no throttling @3.9ghz? I can't quite get rid of throttling on mine.

3.9ghz, sits at 93C, -11000 imon offset and -170mv, yet it's hitting 41watts power usage and 5% throttling now.

 

undervolt -156mv
imon slope = 60
Imon offset = 31000
Really cold aircond room
laptop cooler.

 

Whats your IMON offset value when you're doing the test? I wanna compare the power comsumption between our system. @sush33king @Chipmunk642

 

31000

 

I'm fine tuning my undervolting value right now. Gonna show result after 30mins.

 

If the room is not cold, and if i dont have a laptop cooler... i am sure my laptop will throttle.

 

Mine is now -9000 IMON offset. Whilst stressing cpu+fpu+cache+memory in Aida64 I've got a power comsumption of 41watts, so 50watts in reality.

My IMON Slope is 50 and ambient temp is 23C ish, I've got the laptop on a cooler too but it doesn't do much tbh.

Edit: I'll change the slope to 60 and revert back to -31000 and update this later.

 

I was wrong before, the actual power isnt calculated like that. And there's almos no way to measure the CPU power unless we know the current passing through the CPU.

 

My idle temp now is 27C.... dam its cold in this room now.

I am not sure what my ambient temp is.. but i am freezing.

 

Lmao, my laptop idles at 40C+ (actually it's streaming music with light web browsing)

 

I was ready to make it a cold day at home today coz of the tests @ 95C. Otherwise it will surely throttle.

 

Okay so, -31000 Imon offset + 60 imon slope, fans on auto, cpu package is at 90C but the cpu is spending more time at 3.8ghz than 3.9ghz even though throttling is very low @2%. How come the throttling has decreased with a higher negative imon offset? I imagined it would be the opposite as -31000 offset allows the cpu to pull more power over a -9000 offset.

 

Power (watts) = Amps * Volts. Amps can't really be measured, but the Embedded Controller can measure it. If you change the "VR Current Limit" value and drop it down to a point where you get "EDP OTHER" throttling in Throttlestop, it means your CPU is exceeding that amount of amps. In the Bios, its a /4 divider, so VR Current Limit = 400 would be 100 amps limit. The EC can measure amps directly. We can't.

There is no vcore sensor on these laptops so its impossible to know EXACTLY how much voltage is going into the CPU.
VID isn't voltage. VID is what voltage the CPU *thinks* it's getting or is requesting from the motherboard.

The IA AC setting affects the voltage lines coming directly from the voltage regulators from the AC adapter, and this value is "boosted" up by a "gain" based on resistance (current) of 2.10 mohms on the Z370 chipset (although MSI uses 1.79 or 179 in bios)--the higher the current the more the voltage is boosted internally. This has a direct impact on "true" vcore but there is no vcore sensor on these laptops. Setting this value to 0.01 mOhms (1 in the bios) prevents the voltage from being boosted at load like this.

The IA DC setting is an intel calibrated setting to measure "VOLTAGE DROOP" (which is the amount the voltage is "supposed" to drop at high load). The droop is supposed occur on the voltage regulator side, and the VID you see is based on the result after voltage droop. The CPU doesn't droop the voltage, this is supposed to be done by the mainboard. The IA DC setting, which is also reference value of 2.10 mOhms on Z370 chipsets (but MSI uses 1.79 mOhms or 179 in the bios), shows how much vdroop is supposed to be applied.

The problem is, when you guys are using the 'stock' bios settings, at full load, the VID you see is substantially LOWER than the actual voltage going into the CPU. Often by about 100mv. The "high" voltage spikes you wind up seeing (like 1.4v or something) is the actual real voltage you see at maximum load, but the current VID is much lower. The reason is, MSI uses something called "loadline calibration", which functions on *VCORE* (remember these laptops dont have vcore sensors) to remove voltage droop on vcore. VID is not vcore.

So the "droop" that you are supposed to be seeing (e.g. the VID you see at full load) is LOWER than what the real voltage is, because MSI is REMOVING the voltage droop on their onboard voltage regulators themslves (This is NOT the IA DC setting. this is "loadline calibration" which only desktop boards allow you to toggle). However IA AC and IA DC are designed to function with Loadline calibration *DISABLED*, not enabled. So the IA DC setting, which is causing the VID to droop, is giving you what the voltage "would" be if there were no Loadline calibration at all. The IA DC has no way of knowing if LLC is in existence or not.

That's why on these laptops, setting IA AC loadline to 1 and DC Loadline to 1 works so well. Since there is no vdroop (or very little), there is no need for IA AC to boost the voltage by 1.80 mOhms at full load (which is why you need to undervolt these laptops--undervolting is simply removing the effect of the 1.79 mOhms of IA AC voltage boost).

Clevo and eVGA laptops don't use loadline calibration at all, so setting IA AC loadline to 1 on these simply makes them crash (because the voltage droops too low).

 

Thanks for the explanation, gonna re-read this again and try to actually understand xD

 

Seem like it's power limited at 45w, since temp is below 90. Can you set imon slope @ 50 and run Aida64 again. Btw, what did TS show during the test?

 

How come you got 38W-ish power consumption during combine load. With similar setting in BIOS, my CPU is power throttled (max power recorded was ~50W). Temps got to 100C after 3mins of combined load so I just stopped the test before it fries my laptop.

@Chipmunk642 I set IMON slope to 50 and no more power limited. CPU stablizes at 86C max @ 3.9GHz without GPU load, power ~42W. I got -215.8mV core, which is quite fortunate. Test all done with Cooler boost fan.

 

TS showed Thermal and EDP other, both were flicking between yellow/red every few seconds. -215mv is very lucky, I can't drop below 175mv unfortunately. At stock settings I was able to stay at 2.8ghz/all cores with the 45watt limit holding me back, with a -175mv undervolt I got to 3.3ghz so any extra undervolt would have been great.

Image below is -31000 offset with slope set at 50 this time. TS showing Thermal and EDP flashing red again, Aida is showing more thermal throttle than before.



Edit: I thought -170mv was lowest undervolt possible because -180mv crashed instantly, yet I jumped to -200 and Aida hasn't crashed yet.....

 

Thanks Falkentyne!

 

Anyone has problem that Speedshift EPP value doesn't stick when laptop is on battery? For em EPP value in TS only applies when plugged in and with best performance option in Windows.

 

My freq remains max after pulling the plug at epp 0.

 

Yes, it works for me only when I'm plugged i and using Windows best performance profile in power option. When on battery it doesn't work.

 

I don't know. Dragon center? Battery at better performance?

 

I removed Dragon Center long ago. On battery it seems Windows overides Speedshift value in TS. Better batteryan battery saver sets EPP value as 178, better and best performance sets EPP at 80.

 

@Chipmunk642

Did you manage to stop the throttling?

I think this guy may have the solution for your problem.