*** MSI WT75 Owners Lounge ***

Yes, 250,000 for PL1. I tried a bunch of different settings last night mostly following MrFox's video on the 8700k. The only way to actually improve performance was either to undervolt or adjust IMON settings.

 

This proves my theory.
MSI can't write a proper firmware @Papusan
@Mr. Fox
@Prema
@yrekabakery
@ole!!!
@Donald@HIDevolution
@Zoltan@HIDevolution
@Ultra Male
@thattechgirl_viv

Please take note of this if anyone intends to sell MSI unlocked F7 whitebooks.

The Bios can identify the 9900K CPU
But the Embedded Controller can't, because the EC can only identify *BGA* CPU's, because the EC was made for BGA systems originally.
The power ID is stored in Embedded Controller EC RAM register "E3" in RW Everything.
I told Eurocom Support about this bug on the MSI 16L13. They said they would investigate and fix this.
They didn't. Because they can't. Because MSI has to write the EC.

You can view it in RW Everything and see the power ID. The Bios sets the power ID to the EC. This includes limits on total system power draw, based on the video card detection.
However this power ID is also supposed to detect the CPU as well, not just the video card.
But MSI didn't program the CPU's power ID into the EC.

You can replicate the exact same thing in a GT73VR, GT75VR or GT75 Titan with a "HK" CPU

Try it right now. all of you I tagged.

Grab your BGA MSI throttlebook. with your "unlocked" CPU
Download RW Everything
Go to EC RAM register "E3"

Program a value of "70" into this register.
Download and run Prime95. Open local.txt to disable AVX and FMA3 by adding:

CPUSupportsAVX=0
CPUSupportsFMA3=0

Run Small FFT stress test with max fans.
Use Throttlestop or if you hate Throttlestop, use HWinfo64

Watch what happens to your unlocked CPU. PL2 will trigger. Then after 28 seconds, PL1 will trigger. Because "70" is an unrecognized ID for the CPU.

None of the LGA CPU's have recognized power ID's on the MSI whitebooks or workstations.

 

lmao this reminds me of whitelisting, but its like whitelisting cpu inside of EC rofl, the cancer among cancer

 

Clearly, the Masters of Sucky Inventions where their firmware is concerned.

 

was this the issue that plagued the F5 which is why you couldnt overclock past a certain point? i believe clevo also has cap too but its set higher.

 

Yes, and the thermal management limitations. While it was the most potent 15-incher available, and still is, it couldn't do as much as I expected from it due to those limitations. When I have pushed something as far as it can be pushed and can't push it any further, I quickly start to lose interest in it. Nothing left to conquer, so it becomes dull and boring. But, that's my issue. It's still an excellent product for most users.

 

Well with IMON OFFSET set to 31000 and IMON SLOPE set to 50 this is the best I could do with a -100mV undervolt.

I will open a ticket with MSI support asking them why the 8700 can't go above 95W TDP even for default PL2 values they set from the factory. Maybe with some luck they will fix the issue. I know its bad that the BIOS/EC limits the max performance of what this machine can do, but I am still very happy with it compared to what else is available.

 

MSI won't help you. They don't even care.
Their support is completely clueless.

You will need to reach a HIGH LEVEL engineer at MSI and no one here will have access to one. You need to reach someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
I sent you a PM.
Please check it.

Give them my home telephone number and tell the MSI engineer to call me on the phone directly.
I'm the only person here who knows exactly what is wrong with their god awful Embedded Controller code.

 

Thanks and Rep+ added to win32asmguy for testing and posting this useful info. So from your ThrottleStop readout, you are pulling 95W also with IMON's tricks enabled, in total we are speaking of 95W + 15.5W+ 50W = 160.5W pulled from your i9 9900K but I dont get maximum turbo clock on it.
The IMON Slope can be tricked up to 75 or 99 50 so near the 210W limit suggested from Intel to permit Turbo operation on all core. But you're also near Thermal limit (if not upped to 115°c from bios if possible) because I saw from your screenshot you have 99°c on various core.
Thanks also go to Falkentyne (1st discover of MSI's limits trick).

 

And, just to prove that we are not trolling MSI, let me jump in and add that this applies to all notebook OEMs/ODMs universally. They all truly do not give a rat's ass about anything other than how many they can sell before they run out of suckers. If they did care they wouldn't sell emasculated turdbooks to begin with. They'd be ashamed to put their name on trash like that. That's why we hear retarded excuses like "it functions as intended" LOL. They leave it up to the tiny hand full of boutique shops like HIDevolution to try to make up for their incompetence and clean up their messes.

 

So physically it should fit with the MSI 1070 with the P3200 heatsink, but will it be plug and play? Really considering Eurocom's black friday but really don't need a quadro nor do I want to pay for a quadro. Gonna try to see if they'll sell one without a gpu and just get one separately.

 

There is also this model:

http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,455,0)TornadoF7SE

But that is still a pretty tough sell given that you can get a P870DM barebone with a GTX 1070 from RJTech for half the price of the F7W or F7SE right now...

 

FYI: An MSI GTX 1070 from a Tornado F5 booted right up in this machine. Pad placement was identical to the P3200. Heatsink even has the thermal pads pre-installed for the 2 additional RAM chips the P4200+ and 1070 have.

 

Would this be possible with a GTX1080?

 

There is not a GTX 1080 using this form factor to my knowledge. The closest equivalent is a Quadro P5200.

 

Here in my country i saw a wt75 with one P5200, should be possible change to a Gtx1080?

 

Neither Clevo nor MSI have standard format GTX 1080's. The MSI 1070 is the closest to standard format, except for that absurd tab on the top right which makes installing it hard in a lot of systems.
No MSI card uses this format in 1080. They either have the 'flipped' core version used in the MSI F5 and GT83VR, or the "Shifted" core version used in the other Titan laptops, which means different VRM sinks and heatsinks are needed for the "shiifted" core versions and the VRM heatsinks for the changed VRM layouts (the 1070 versions will not fit). Obviously the flipped core versions won't fit in the GT73VR, GT75VR, or GT75 Titan.

The zotac and Dell GTX 1080's that have been appearing randomly in standard MXM 3.0 layout "may" work, if you can get the VRM heatsinks to make full coverage over the VRM's and RAM (some of the layouts of a few components are changed compared to the 1070 MSI card), but then God only knows if you would have backlight control or need modded drivers even if you did have backlight control.

 

No, the GTX 1080 has a different board design than the 1070 and P5200.

The P5200 and the GTX 1070 share the middle configuration. the 1080 on the right is very different.

Spoiler

 

Isn't it true that you could just take the GTX 1070 and TDP mod it up to GTX 1080 performance levels?

 

You can if someone makes a working editor.

None of the GTX 1070's included with coffee lake laptops can be modded because the editor is discontinued, almost a year and a half out of date, and there's no source code available. And the only people who knew how to deal with the checksums and find the location of the values was Dremonic (who closed his website voltground.com), Coolane (who was working with Dremonic), and Prema, who knows everything but can't tell you and I think @bloodhawk is capable of directly modding his own vbioses by himself.

No one else here knows how to do it.
Not only do you have to know where to change the TDP values, you also have to be able to adjust the three "rail" limits to the next tier past a certain point (and those can be dangerous values to mess with).

 

What about Svet? Did he get it to work?

 

I don't know. I remember him trying the editor on a card and got code 43.

 

A couple quick notes:

• Thanks again to @win32asmguy for the modified bios. I finally got around to installing a 9900k. So far, it rocks and I am really pleased with the results. I haven't done a ton of CPU benchmarking yet, but temperatures have been impressive so far with a -140mv undervolt, a IC Graphite pad and lapped heatsink but it is still power limit throttling.
  
  
• I put a Tesla V100 in a TB3 enclosure and did some TensorFlow work and the machine performed okay. I didn't have any of the driver headaches I experienced with the two previous Clevos (P870 and P750) using an external GPU compute card over TB3, but performance was down about 20% from my Alienware Graphics Amplifier + 15r4. (EDIT: The 20% drop compared to the AGA or desktop is a best case scenario when not pushing anything else over the DMI 3.0 bus. As soon as my NVMe drive started a sustained write operation, performance dropped precipitously.)
  
  
• One of my fans has failed. This shouldn't surprise anyone given this history we have with the Tornado F5 fan failures. Unfortunately, these fans look like dual exit variants of that Tornado F5 fan. I swapped the one working fan to the CPU until I can find a replacement. The P3200 can work up to about 20w passively and stay under 70c...the 9900k can't. I have a G703g notebook with dual exit 12v fans I am going to try and use as a replacement.

 

The fan in mine had the same part number as the GT73VR fans, which are cheaply available on ebay. I may order myself a spare to have on hand in case mine fails too... probably far simpler than trying to get MSI to send us one under warranty, even though its a workstation model.

So you didn't keep the GTX 1070 installed in yours? How much better did it perform than the P3200?

 

I borrowed the 1070 from a Tornado F5 and had to put it back when I was done. Time spy scores were ~4250 for the P3200 and 5350 for the 1070. Of course, the 1070 could be overclocked on top of that where the P3200 can't. I didn't try anything else... Just wanted to check if it would work. I need the Quadro for work despite wanting the 1070 for play.

 

Tom Ho (Tomh AT msi DOT com i THINK his email is) will send you replacement fans under warranty, for $10 shipping. You may be able to get him to ask for an extra 2nd spare if you pay for it. If they are indeed the GT73VR (or GT75VR) fans, then I have no idea why they failed. One thing I did with my GT73VR fans is I actually removed the sticker and washer ring (some plastic or rubber looking thing) and put some Shin-Etsu G-30M into the spindle on both of the fans. Both fans have been working fine for a year and a half, although I do have a spare of each sitting around.

 

I played the IMON modifying game to get some decent scores. Stock 4.7 on all cores netting about the same ~2000 in C15 as @win32asmguy.

I'm quite pleased with this. The 9900k I picked up from Micro Center seems to be decent too. Temps were reasonable with a -100mv undervolt and using the IC Graphite pad, although the fans got loud quick. I was scoring about 1800 with just the undervolt before modifying IMON parameters.

Spoiler

 

Yesterday I upgraded my WT75 with a GTX 1070. The installation went really smooth. The GPU heatsink is a two piece kit, and had thermal pads for all eight GDDR5 chips even though the P3200 only has six.

I happened to notice that the WT75 motherboard has a third MXM slot mounting hole, and it looks like its in the correct place for the odd layout GTX 1080 used in the Tornado F5 / GT83. It makes me wonder if the MSI Quadro P5200 MXM card uses the same GTX 1080 form-factor and MSI has a second type of GPU heatsink for the WT75. It that were true it may open up an RTX 2080 upgrade path.

In the meantime having a GTX 1070 again is great. It was the only downgrade I took when switching from the Alienware 17R4. My first bootup Firestrike score was ~15500.

 

Sorry for the OT post but can like the best Quadro card run games at max settings like the GTX 1080 or RTX 2080 or are they in a different league as each excels in one thing but not the other?

 

Probably not, from what I understand Quadros are locked to professional workloads. I think some people have had success at using modified drivers to force it to allow playing games.

I hope they make something like this with gaming cards though.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Yes, the P5200 has similar performance to the GTX 1080. However, Geforce driver game fixes can take a while to trickle down to Quadro drivers, so I wouldn't count on being able to play AAA titles on launch day.

 

Its possible to throw the GTX 1080 in there. You need both the gpu main heatsink and the VRAM heatsink from a GT73/75 that is equipped with the GTX 1080. The only mod is you need to remove the heat pipe from the VRAM heatsink , and get the cooling from the main heatsink.

As for the 6 pin connector , I have been running without it in my GT73. I know that the GTX 1080 in the MSI Vortex G65 is the same card and it didn’t use the 6 pin, even though the card has the connector present.

 

I think the 6 pin is to pick up the slack for the limitations on the pcie lanes for laptops.

Personally I would be excited for a gaming card in a WT series laptop.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

The MSI GTX 1070 MXM is a drop in replacement. I heard that a v1.2 card pulled from a retail GTxx machine works best, although in theory the v1.0 would be fine too.

What about using the Vortex G65's GTX 1080 VRM / RAM heatsink? It doesn't have any pipes connected to it from what I can remember from photos.

 

Yea, I would hope to keep one of my 1080's. Though at this point it would more of a side grade really.

Hopefully the next generation one would support the top end of cards.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Oh, do you have a GT83VR with SLI GTX 1080's? Those have the smaller form factor GTX 1080 which has no power connector or any heatsink that would fit the WT75 AFAIK. Technically nobody has posted a photo of the WT75VR P5200 card or heatsink - but I am pretty certain it uses the exact same heatsink and layout as the P3200 / P4200. It does not have GDDR5X so in theory it doesn't need the extra PCB space around the memory components..

 

It is better to use the VRAM heatsink plate from the GT73/75 as it's designed to integrate with the shape of the main GPU heat sink. Here is the link to VRAM HS. Links are of the same part number. I posted he 2nd link to show a better picture. The 2nd picture also shows the curve notched that integrates with the main heatsink.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-GT73VR...YUzMO:sc:USPSFirstClass!94605!US!-1:rk:8:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E31-040812...=item3d79e92935:g:UYMAAOSwmUBb6x4c:rk:68:pf:0


The heat plate from the G65 will work too , but it is basically the same as the above linked. All it does is cover the VRAM.

I have the main GPU heat sink if you ever needed to do the upgrade.





the GTX 1080 from GT83 won't work as the VRAM is reversed and require a whole new mod for the heat sink.

 

Yea. I love it, though I kinda feel a bit ripped off about the Mgpu meme but that's my fault.

I haven't been into my GT83 in awhile but I think it has the power connectors and I am 90% sure it has GDDR5X on it. I'll have to take a moment to peek when I can.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

It does not have the power connector and is a lower TDP than the GTX 1080 from the GT73/75 and G65. The VRAM is reversed also, It is a GDDR5X though.

 

Ok. The GT73 heatsink does look like it fits better. Unfortunately it seems like the cards are pretty rare so for now I will look into TDP modding the GTX 1070.

 

So it looks like I may have been wrong about the Quadro P5200. From the looks of the photo in this post the P5200 is using the same flipped layout as the GT83VR / GT63VR / Tornado F5 GTX 1080. It does look like a couple of the VRM's are arranged differently so the P5200 heatsink may require some modification to work, and the WT75 motherboard would have to be removed so the card standoff's can be moved to the GTX 1080 positions.

So while this is great news I am also interested in getting the parts needed to TDP mod the GTX 1070. I think everything I need (Skypro, 1.8v adapter, Pomona clip and jumpers) is outlined in this post: Mobile Pascal TDP Tweaker Update and Feedback Thread.

 

You can’t use the heatsink from the GTX 1080 or the GTX 1070.


The P5200 will be a mess as you would need a whole new heatsink, not to mentioned the modifying of the mounting point for the card. I say you avoid this , unless you use the OEM heatsink that would probably came with a P5200 on your WT laptop.

On the other hand , a GTX 1080 will be easier.

 

@Falkentyne Great news! MSI released a new BIOS and EC last week. It looks like the cancer is now gone. It has the 9th gen microcode embedded by default and supports the 9900k out of the box. It can go beyond 95W now and seems to only be limited by cooling or settings I specified in the bios. No modifications to IMON slope or IMON offset needed.

 

What about GPU? any RTX compatible model?

 

Nope, just the TDP modded GTX 1070, which runs fine. I doubt RTX 2070+ will ever come to a compatible MXM format for the WT75 / GT75. MSI / Clevo / Dell has already made their new (incompatible) formats, and Zotac is using standard desktop PCIe RTX 2070's in their new mini PC's.

 

How high can you test sustained TDP on your chip (with keeping it under 98C?). Alienware 51m camp is all angry right now. If you can pull >150W sustained, this will make a lot of people angry, and @Papusan very very happy.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong: the WT75 uses a socketed desktop CPU and MXM upgradable GPU!

 

Pretty much but I think it's locked some way or another to the quattros.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

It uses LGA1151 CPU's and a MXM GPU. I have a 9900k and GTX 1070 @ 185W TDP (pulled from a GT73VR) in my WT75. Sadly MSI only sells these as a mobile workstation, with Quadro GPU's, so even the entry level config is $2900 MSRP.

 

Thanks, man! I will decide between this WT75, a Clevo based laptop, and the Alienware A51-m. The only thing I don't like about the A51-m is that it removable GPU is a Dell proprietary form factor, not the MXM. The positive is it's DP 1.4 version.