MSI GT75 TITAN 8RG-094 Review by Ultra Male

@Papusan

Where is the HWiNFO Reg file you promised me? I have not a PM from j00

 

It's easy to understand actually.

The i9 is throttling.

However, as @Papusan posted, it's throttling on EVERY OEM's laptop that is stock, so obviously, there's Something wrong with the CPU itself.

 

That's what I was wondering myself, how the i9 scored less in cinebench than my score of 1273 with 8850H cpu, that's just weird.

 

I think the manufacturers just did not think the thermals through really (for some also voltages and power went wrong it seems). Imo these laptops should not have been released to the public as they are from factory right now. No other mainstream manufacturer can sustain the 6 core cpu's including msi's own thin laptops (gs65 anyone). Look at some of these if you want (throttle fest) - and these are just the i7 cpu's:
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...X-1050-Ti-Laptop.303786.0.html#toc-emissionen asus gl703ge 2.7-2.9GHz
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...8.0.html#toc-emissionen-die-blichen-schw-chen aorus x5 3.2GHz on 8850H
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...l#toc-energieverwaltung-optimus-f-r-mobilit-t msi gs65 2GHz ahahaha
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...0376.0.html#toc-emissionen-licht-und-schatten gigabyte aero 14 3-3.1GHz
And hey, they still try to sell this garbage!
The stock gt75 8rg with i9 can still score at least over 1300 points in cinebench according to kitguru & notebookcheck. I am sure it would have been more if at least the voltage was adjusted.

 

Have you hided or disabled “Who are you” pm? Look into there.

4.3GHz all 6 cores should mean +1425cb in Cinebench R15. If it works as intended.

 

By stock I meant stock factory paste and voltages - so totally stock stock. Ofc it throttles at least somewhat, even my 8750H went over 90 degrees like it was nothing and that was AFTER I increased the fan speed a bit already. Stock is how we like it here in EU... until we come to notebookreview and hear of magical stuff we have never even imagined before (ok now I am talking about myself).

 

I don't believe there is anything wrong with the CPU. When I got my GT75, the scores were a little... disheartening, but only until I found out the CPU wasn't thermal throttling. It was POWER throttling! Out of the box it's simply underpowered. The turbo max is set at 45 W and iccmax at 128 A.
Raise both to 200 and then start tinkering.
I believe credit for that advice goes to @Falkentyne

 

Uh yours was actually limited to 45W? Bah. I am starting to think I got a laptop from the pile "bestest and greatest msi inventions for those that had it rough with warranty and were granted a new toy in exchange for their piece of crap that was missing in service center for couple months". Tough to say since I am like the only person with 8750H in this thing. But I will stop commenting so much, kinda hijacking the thread here.

 

MSi's bios settings cause weird things to happen.
I told all of you the H series processors have a 45W TDP.
You start fiddling with stuff, it seems this TDP gets ignored, unlike the HQ processors before.

I also could be "wrong" and the H processors could be allowed to bypass the "Power limit 2" setting which is usually 1.5x TDP.. Without a HQ or 8950HK (you can force the 8950HK to behave like an H by either hacking the EC to change its identification from HK to H), or setting manual limits to 45W and 62W, if in fact PL2 behaves the same way as before. It does on the 8700K, 91W and 1.5x that for PL2, but unknown with what this thermal velocity boost stuff and weird clocking is on these BGA versions now.

To bypass 45W TDP on the HQ processors, you need to set:

IMON SLOPE to 50
IMON OFFSET to negative.
IMON offset value - 31999

This will make a CPU report it is using about 1/3 the power draw it's actually using.

I don't have a 6 core laptop you guys. I can't do testing for anyone anymore.

 

What kind of coconut juice are you drinking bro?

The who are you PM has expired last year, now the new PM says "have j00 a c0c0nut?" I sent you a message. Walking the dog too much made you forget how to contact me?

 

And why do you think they set a power limit?

Because the more juice you give a CPU, the more heat it will produce.

It's underpowered because if the bios let the CPU loose, well, throttling will happen.

Also; https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-G...-GTX-1080-Full-HD-Laptop-Review.303182.0.html

As you can see, once fully "powered"

To quote the review if you don't want to read it; "The situation is less rosy under the hood. After an hour of FurMark and Prime95 stress testing, the Core i9-8950HK had heated up to 99 °C"

So yeah, if you think that 99 °C is fine and that there's nothing wrong with the CPU, it's on you.

@Phoenix is able to get really good temp, but look at how much tweaking he did.

 

They overdid it though. If you bench it like it is out of the box, it'll power throttle down to 39x sometimes even lower. That's IMHO worse than thermal throttling.
BTW, there is nothing inherently different with this i9 than what it was with CPUs in the past. Literally ALL laptops I've had last 10 years ran hot. Yes 99C wasn't any rarity if I pushed it just a little. And no, nothing happened to any of these CPUs. It might shorten their lifespan, but I usually upgrade to new one every 2 years anyway. BTW, The Sager I've got for 4 years now still running like a champ and I used to run it HOT! I'm not worried about that. The only thing that bothers me is the fan noise. That's why I run mine at 43x now and I can't even hear the fans. If I'm playing Witcher 3, only the GPU fan gets loud (GPU runs at 86C max).
The performance at 43x with adjusted iccmax (and -0.160V offset) is way better than with MSI settings and temp maxes out at 86C.

@Phoenix has it modded in every possible way and he runs benches with his laptop sitting on top of an A/C unit.

 

Negative. I don't have no AC unit or a cooling pad

 

There is nothing wrong with the CPU (except maybe the usual lower binning compared to the desktop counterparts).

I understand that you see many reviews with overheating/under-performing laptops with 8950HK and because of that, you might think that it's the CPU that has a problem, but no, the CPU is fine just like kaby lake 7820HK was fine.

A CPU which is mostly a refined kaby lake version but with 50% more cores, won't be considerably more efficient than the previous unlocked kaby lake CPUs.

Having 50% more cores correlates to a similar increase in power consumption, which translates to a higher amount of heat.

Intel did specify the TDP and offered the basic guidelines for the ODMs to design their cooling systems. Also, as you can see, the max all core TB clocks aren't mentioned anymore, this is because the TB clocks depend even more on the cooling system and power limitations.

Basically, intel's only guarantees basic clocks at the specified TDP under a worst load scenario, anything over should be considered a "bonus".

ODMs are free to design their cooling system and their BIOS/EC throttling mechanism around that 45W TDP. They can give you more thermal headroom (and a BIOS with higher limits) if they want, but it is more convenient for them to only make slight changes to save on production costs. The main fault goes to the laptop ODMs.

Intel's main fault would be the use of the same TDP guidelines for a more power hungry CPU, they should have specified an 1.5x greater TDP from the start, to force the ODMs to improve the cooling systems (and to not recycle the old ones).

You cannot expect to have a CPU (without a significant improvement in efficiency) with 50% more cores to maintain a significantly higher all core turbo with almost the same cooling system and the same power limits.

Now, regarding the under-performing 8950HKs compared to the lower spec 8850h/8750h, it's also the ODM's fault for not properly designing the cooling system to cope with increased power limits or the other way around, for opting with same/lower default power limits so they don't have to put more money in the cooling system.

 

So I tortured it more and harder with cpu benchmarks running subsequently after each other many times and voila: while I did not see this real time, at some point for less than a second 1 of the cores dropped to base clock 2.2GHz then right back to 3.9 (I only saw this in the "min" in hwinfo not sure at which point it actually happened) - all other 5 cores still had min values of 3.9. I can live with that. Just correcting my previous statements that it is impossible to make it throttle

 

Oh, it wasn't you who posted his "benchmarking setup" pictures? Sorry. I've got yous all mixed up.

 

Yeah. At 3.9 it is pretty much impossible to make it throttle.
Who knows what kind of fluke that was.

 

This is interesting:


But Cinebench results are quite abysmal:


I wonder why is that. Anybody has any insight?

 

PL1 and PL2 is Crippled (all too low power limits). Xtu Bench doesn’t tax the system equal. Cinebench need more powa than this Power Limit. Xtu is more like a fake benchmarks. Crippled Cpu performance with good ram scores well, but (older) faster oc’d processors with less performing ram sticks scores less in XTU.

 

Well, that explains a lot. Thanks.

 

Sigh
I feel like I tell everyone but no one ever cares until it nips them in the butthole.


A) UNINSTALL DRAGON CENTER. DO NOT EVER TOUCH IT AGAIN. POWER OFF THE LAPTOP.. HOLD POWER BUTTON DOWN FOR 60 SECONDS. KEEP IT PRESSED.
wait 2 minutes for the full CMOS clear and boot loops to happen. This will restore all bios corruption caused by Dragon Center.

just found out that Dragon Center messes with the TDC limit, causing MORE throttling. I KID YOU NOT.

You guys want proof since you don't believe me?



So do what I say. Uninstall dragon center and clear the CMOS to erase that stuff it adds to your hidden bios menus.

1) UNLOCK YOUR BIOS.
2) Set CPU power and performance->CPU VR Settings->Core I/A Domain ->IA AC / DC loadline, = 1
3) Set VR Current Limit to 800
4) make sure TDC is DISABLED and value is set to 0.

5) brownie points: if you want to never, ever, ever, EVER EVER EVER reach "power Limit" throttling of 45W, set IMON SLOPE to 50, IMON OFFSET to 31999 and IMON OFFSET PREFIX TO NEGATIVE. Yes, negative. Then you can draw 100W of power and the CPU will only report about 35W. VERIFIED AND TESTED.

To unlock your bios follow the instructions here.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-clear-cmos-and-prevent-common-issues.812372/

I'm slowly dying (nsides getting crushed slowly, muscles tearing) from a serious medical disability. Everyone else is too busy with real life. I may just post the damn unlock code and be done with it if this BS keeps up. What are you people going to do to a dead person? Sue me? Spit on my grave? I'm not getting paid to fix MSI's bullcrap. And I don't want to hear it from any of you people.

Get the INTEL CSME SYSTEM TOOLS V12.
https://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html

For older GT73VR and GT75VR, v11 works, but if you get an ERROR on your GT75 Titan, that 'unsupported platform" with v11, use v12. IT WILL WORK.

Run FPTW64 as administrator: FPTW64.exe -d MSIcancerbiosbackup.com -bios
Download UEFITool and Universal IFR extractor from Paloesco's post I inked above.
Download RU from the website as the one paloesco had previously linked in his tools had BUGS which would cause your entire laptop to shut off on "UEFI Variables".

http://ruexe.blogspot.com/

Make a backup copy of your bios dump you made. Save it somewhere.
Download AMIBCP 5.0.2 from https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigaby...-info-benchmarking-stability-tools-print.html
somewhere over there.

Now, first things first.
Run UEFITOOL on your bios backup that you made. Open image file click the backup you made.
Click FILE->SEARCH->Text Enter "Bios Lock" in the text search.

At the bottom you should see "bios lock found at pe32 something". double click that.
A menu tree will appear at the top with a PE32 field already highlighted. RIGHT CLICK THAT AND choose extract as is. Name it whatever, like "extractedfield.bin" or something.

Close UEFItool and open universal ifr extractor. open the file you just extracted. . the words UEFI should be in GREEN. If so, good. click extract. And save it as the suggested txt file name. Should be no errors.

Now open that new text file in windows notepad.
Edit->Find, search for BIOS LOCK
You should see it, then some HEXADECIMAL variable.
WRITE THIS VARIABLE DOWN ON PAPER. Example: 0x8AA. Ignore the part in brackets.

Now, follow paloesco's instructions on making a boot disk with RU
Once you make a flash drive boot disk with RU, you need to disable secure boot, boot to your disk and boot into RU.

In RU, you then need to follow the instructions shown by Paloesco and go to UEFI variables. And look for "setup."
there should be two. A small one and a large one. The small one is wrong. You want the large one.
Once you go to the large one you need to page down (i forgot if its control page down or not) through all the HEXADECIMAL OFFSETS on the left, until you get to the PROPER HEXADECIMAL OFFSET FOR BIOS LOCK.. Example: if yours was 0x8AA, then you would look for 08AA (leading zeros are basically placeholers.

Press enter on that hex offset and change the "01" there to a "00". Should be pictures and more info in paloesco's thread.
Click write value (forgot the key, might be control W). It will say its written successfully.

use the next menu to exit RU and restart your laptop.

Now:
Boot to windows, Open AMIBCP 5.0.2, open that bios backup you originally made with FPTW64. Click on Advanced and change everything that you want unhidden to "SUPERVISOR".
You also need to change each and every submenu and option that you want unhidden as well. Most boring thing you will ever do in your life.

DO NOT USE AMIBCP 5.0.1, YOU WILL CORRUPT THE BIOS CAPSULE !

Once that's done, save your settings, flash your bios capsule back with FPTW64.exe -f msicancerbiosbackup.bin -bios
Shut off the laptop, wait 10 seconds, power it on, go in your bios and have fun.

BETTER HAVE A SPI PROGRAMMER (SKYPRO RECOMMENDED) available to flash your bios chip if something goes wrong.
This method HAS BEEN ALREADY TESTED as working by another user here on his GT75 Titan.

Doing this on the GS65 stealth is UNTESTED. It SHOULD work, but it has only been confirmed on the Titan.

 

That's way over my paygrade man. Besides, as I know myself, I'll mess it up overlooking something, skipping steps or just plainly duck it up.
I don't have a SPI programmer and I don't have any clues how to operate one.
Are the improvements THAT significant to justify going through all this and risking a perfectly good, even though crippled, laptop?
BTW, I don't use Dragon center. I uninstalled it pretty much right away.
BTW 2... that unlock code... in my mailbox... how about it? (wink wink, nudge, nudge, snap snap, say no more... )

 

Aside from custom paste from HID Evolution I don't think Phoenix did anything.

Also always be careful with furmark + Prime, both are increadibly unrealistic loads that will force way higher temps than you can do otherwise. Also I agree on the power limit. Companies put that in so people have a harder time breaking their notebooks and keep better temps.

 

I call liquid metal on both cpu and gpu + 2 holes in bottom cover + changing voltages in bios pretty much to lowest possible + tweaking OS for few hours to make it perfect A LOT. And who knows what else clever Phoenix can do? Anyway I think the power limits etc would not be necessary if they used at least somewhat decent paste.

That is the GL62M 7REX... stock vs repaste with an Arctic MX-2. Not only did the cpu go from thermal throttling with about 96 C max to no throttling, but insane 80 degrees max. That is whopping 16 degrees difference and MX-2 is no liquid metal or even top paste. Oh and did I say he spread the paste using his finger? I'd call the factory paste garbage, can't wait to change mine so my gpu temp finally get at least below 85 I hope.

 

Oh yeah completely forgot about the bottom plate. Yeah I'd consider that one a slick mod, Not sure about the voltage tho. Don't have the CPU myself, but the voltages from notebookcheck are pretty much the same as Phoenix has em.

Power limit is a thing on thin notebooks. Also we all agree that the stock thermal compound on any notebook is worthless.

Also in terms of stresstest, OS optimizations does nothing, temps are same either way. Benchmarks will get affected tho.

 

too bad we dont have the option to put it to 0.01 but minimum just value of 1 for those ac/dc loadline value

 

Hi @ole!!!

Asus 0.01 is the same as MSI's 1.
Asus uses "direct" values, while MSI uses a divider.
Or someone on their programming team sucks.

Asus uses 0.01 to 62.49. (direct mOhm value).
MSI uses 1 to 6249.(value divided by 100).

Yet Asus' description for this value is ripped blatantly from AMI's documentation, even though they changed the divider :/

Although in the new section in Overclocking Performance menu, there's some new stuff there for "DC loadline" that isn't on the older MSI's, but i can't even test it without access to a laptop. But changing the DC loadline setting in Core I/A Domain affects the VID that is reported by the CPU (higher resistance values=more vdroop the VID reports, even though VID isn't actually vcore). Changing DC loadline to a higher value while keeping AC loadline at 1 just makes the vdroop reported go wild (much higher vdroop) while -slightly- (very slightly) raising temps and power consumption---weird..

 

so that means asus's 0.01 actually would mean 10mv cause thats what it reflects in hwinfo with clevo's set at value of 1. got no asus board can't tell.

edit: nevermind just read lower saw the value

 

Haha, brother @ole!!! , resistances and current is all greek to me. I honestly dont know how to measure that stuff. I'm guessing your Clevo has an actual "Vcore" sensor rather than only relying on VID?

If you're actually wild enough to TEST that option (which can get dangerous; upper levels can destroy the mainboard if not the CPU), the reference value for Kaby lake and 8700K is 1.80 mOhms.
So that would be a value of 180 in MSI/Clevos and 1.8 (1.8, NOT 18!) on a desktop Asus ROG / Strix/ Rampage whatever).

Just remember it is based on current. The voltage will go higher the more current / load is going through the chip. At idle you'll barely notice anything.

 

i went as high as 280 for 5.2ghz OC and 49x on uncore, i didnt dare to go higher lol

 

You need to disable TDC due Dragon Center or the need even with out the MSI BLOAT?

48x - Cinebench R15 - 1603cb (temp maxed out 56C degrees - 3C degrees between hottest vs. coldest core). Approved stamp?

You may have forgot that the bottom plate mod decrease max temp with 7-8 Degrees as well? FYI. This was @Phoenix temp when he got the MSI. And bro @Falkentyne helped him to lower temp. +-80/90% of the Msi GT75 owners with 8950Hk will get the MSI problem below. Disgusting. And I won't talk about the AW 17R5 overheating mess. i


And i9-8950hk in newest AW 17R5 throttle so hard in Cinebench R15 that the scores is lower than last years max oc'd 4 core i7-7820Hk.

 

From Tweety's conversation with me, she NEVER changed that setting, and the only way that would EVER be set in ANY MSIbook (the bios defaults it to 0) is from dragon center.
Look
I just opened default GT75 Titan APTIO bios.

What do you see?




Now look carefully at the BIOS DEFAULTS.
Look carefully.

Failsafe is set to NEITHER ENABLED NOR DISABLED. Value is 0
Optimal is set to enabled, still value of 0.

the very fact that optimal is enabled tells you that msi is up to no good !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and somehow it's enabled and 640?
I dont know if that's a bug or not. One of the options is "blank" there

But...

Let's look at GT73VR default settings and optimal, shall we, folks?

OH LOOK WHAT DO YOU SEE?



Magic?

Vomit?

Hocus Pocus?
@Papusan BGA killer powa?
Brother @Mr. Fox who's sick of listening of me finding a new BGA excuse every week?
brother Phoenix who's going "I told you so!"
@Kittys BGA slaying Angel Heroine?
@Prema our savior of all?

You guys seriously don't get it.
MSI forcing this setting on now to make the laptops throttle even MORE....

DO NOT FREAKING USE DRAGON CENTER !

 

I get it. MSI: Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly goes clear down to the bones.

Never expect intelligence from retards. Skunks never change their stripes.

BGA filth comes in all brands, shapes and sizes, bundled with various stages of firmware cancer; but, it's still crippled trash any way you slice it. There is no extra charge for this. It's just one of the many disservices they are happy to provide.

 

but you get the RGB "gamer" keyboard which increases your bling factor by 69 points

 

49x and temp maxed out 59C (1C degrees difference between hot vs. cold core - Hope @Falkentyne will accept this big difference ). I'm sure I would see well below 50C with the bigger TM1 heatsink. But it is what it is. None of the reviewed Jokebooks with stock 8950Hk provide correct scores for fixed clocks. Exactly the same as with unlocked Skylake and Kaby lake BGA... All need 1 bin on top.

Below 50°C aka Alienware idle temp Running 46x@1545cb


47x - Cinebench R15 - 1579cb and temp maxed out 51°C.


48x - Cinebench R15 - 1603cb (temp maxed out 56°C - 3°C degrees between hottest vs.
coldest core). Approved stamp?


49x - Cinebench R15 - 1618cb (temp maxed out 59°C)


http://hwbot.org/submission/3862256_papusan_cinebench___r15_core_i7_8700k_1619_cb?recalculate=true 50x all 6 cores. Max 68°C

 

Oh, wow, 69 points on bling... it must be OK then.

Zoom, zoom, zoom...

 

Yep, never touched this option so maybe this setting was left even after dragon center was uninstalled. I disabled it now.

 

The voltages on notebookcheck for the gt75 8rg are irrelevant, guess you missed that. When you look at the only hwmonitor screen they have, the min temps are 86 to 91 which means the measures most likely started when it was already throttling. Also in the fancy graphs you see the clock actually runs at like 3.7GHz so obviously the voltage would be lower. Phoenix has liquid metal which means the cpu went all out to almost 1.5V when he first got it which is a lot higher than what it should be. And no, OS optimization may not influence stress test temps but it will influence gaming performance and normal usage temps which are imo more important than stress tests. Normal people do not do those things at all and should not even need to if msi made a few good decisions. Hell, even my 8750H out of the box went over 1.3V at 3.9GHz and over 90 degrees in tests. Not acceptable.

 

I heard someone calling my name...

 

Nice seeing you finally post in your own thread Seen this? You have bought from Azor's company before, bruh. Azor even offer Vapor chamber TRIPOD heatsink now But it won't help. because the cooling results is exactly same as the models from last year. Or the year before.. Seems 100C is the main goal nowadays, bruh.

https://valid.x86.fr/qqfi5c


http://hwbot.org/submission/3862879_papusan_cinebench___r15_core_i7_8700k_1646_cb?recalculate=true


BGABook,TurdBook,JokeBook,..

 

@Phoenix When will you put in more scores?

Screw you INTEL. Force people over to new won't always work out. Shame on you. 52x

http://hwbot.org/submission/3864027_papusan_wprime___32m_core_i7_8700k_2sec_799ms?recalculate=true

 

So when you gonna do some Overclock? I would love to help you out and get that thing running and see the potential of that machine.
You can post your discord/steam add to me per PM if you like, I can show and explain to you how to overclock while keeping good temps, goal should be good temps while having good OC.

 

I am eager to see how it does. Would be nice to see at least 50x6 stable in Cinebench and wPrime 1024M with reasonable temps.

Watched this video last night. Hopefully, @Phoenix will be able to do much better than this worthless pile of trash from ASUS. Looking at the ridiculous amount of effort that went into Linus' escapade, it still sucked. It was kind of funny that they pretended to be impressed with it. Or, considering the source, maybe he actually was impressed. (Probably would not take much coming from the perspective of a Razer fanboy that always overhypes junkbooks.)

 

That sucks. Phoenix is almost beating it at stock speeds lol. And wth is with that fan and duct tape? Lol. They would have better results putting the laptop a bit more elevated, especially without the bottom cover it is just sitting flat on the table and it seems it's pretty suffocated by it. Look how the fans stick out, any air intake will just be totally gone and stuck onto the table. Poor asus.

 

That was by far one of the most cringy and annoying video I've seen in my life.

 

My CPU is at its limits, last time I overclocked it jut to 50X on 2 cores while upping the voltage to 1.38V, it failed to boot, I then had to do a forced reset which took ages, after I set back all my settings the way they were, I realized my entire RAID array got corrupted and it caused me a huge loss. I cannot mess around with this thing.

 

Yup. It was so ridiculous that it almost seemed like a gag or something. It certainly was not flattering of the ASUS notebook, and their fumbling around with it as they were was a bit comical. As you noted, the scores were not particularly good for the clock speeds, but being a thermal abortion tends to do that.

 

I agree. To such an extent that it almost seemed they were mocking it the further they went with their silliness.

That amount of voltage is not an issue as long as the temps remain in check. Probably did not have the right settings. That always tears up my OSes. If the bin quality is similar to the average (i.e. crappy) bin quality of the 8700K in my DM-G it will need about 1.425V for 50x6, which will be absolute murder on thermals with an air cooled laptop. I wish it was a good sample like the one in my desktop, or the one @Papusan has. It would be a good test of your cooling system though. Probably still worth trying, but only if you are comfortable with the idea. It should not cause any harm to your CPU unless you repeatedly cook it to death. If the cooling system can handle it, you might be able to bench the crap out of it.

 

Never heard of anytyhing like this before, where a CPU overclock would mess up the Raid Aray, also i would assume you need around 1.425 - 1.475volts for 5ghz on any core.

 

Yep. Pretty much the same happened to me. After pushing it too hard, I had to reset CMOS and poof, RAID was gone. One of the two SSDs was corrupted. Fortunately it wasn't physically damaged so I built a new RAID0 and installed W10 from scratch. Feels a little snappier for some reason.