*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

So I finally delidded my CPU! Also, I am pleased to say I did not kill my laptop with the liquid metal However, I may have been a bit too cautious with the LM, because my temps ended more or less the same. I will probably do a repaste and add a tiny bit more LM.

 

I won't shame them too much until I have explored all avenues but I was told by Mark on the phone that they would look into some price discrepancies and that he would get back to me via e-mail. That never happened. I called again and left a message on Garry's line asking for a call back. That never happened. I also never received any manuals with my unit and while I normally wouldn't care, I paid a lot of money for this unit, nearly $3000.

I'm tiring of the piss poor customer service that the majority of these resellers employ. No wonder guys like Phoenix tell people to avoid them and I'm likely going to do the same very soon.

 

Those pictures are beautiful...I like to see those heatsinks in copper instead of painted black. I bet when HIDevolution gets it , it will be approximately $100 or more expensive for the same set up due to Premas bios. Eurocom has responded well to me, which is more than I can say for other companies, but I have figured out that many of the messages are more or less automated responses, from asking certain things from different email addresses...getting the same exact response word for word....like they just click 1, 2, 3, 4, pre-determined responses...haha. That's ok by me, as I often do the same thing with my clients, but its just something to keep in mind when they respond fast.

 

I have a question about deliding.
If you remove all the "glue" that hold the chipset and the Heatspreader together. Do you really need to put back some "glue" or epoxy or whatever to make the 2 stick again together or we can just press them together put it back in the CPU socket and use it as it is? Would there be a risk or problem involved with not "glueing" the chipset and heatspreader back together?

I've seen video online who doesn't glue hem back together and I've seen other were they do so I'm curious

 

You don't need to glueing IHS back together on PCB. Shouldn't be a risk if you don't use too much liquid metal on die. All know what will happen if you put on too much

 

Prema is a Clevo guy, so no bios from him on the Tornado F5. HIDevolution's prices will competitive with Eurocom's, so expect amazing customer service and detailed craftsmanship.

 

Anyone have any information about the new bios? Somebody mentioned unlocked bios from Svet?

I really want to play with the memory timings and speed but thaiphoon burner says the descriptors are locked
" I so much want to Thaiphoon my Tornado"

 

Eurocom said 2 week for unlocked bios last weeks , I'd guess we'll get it by next Friday

 

Gluing is not necessary, but you have to be more careful when placing it back into the socket. The retaining lever will move the IHS when you clamp down the CPU, so you have to compensate for that too.

 

There are no manuals for this laptop, so rest assured on that part, I mean what there actually is - is a small pamphlet, which is one page but 10x for every language and it should be in the big box where the accessories or heatsinks or fans would have come in if they were not installed.

If you don't have even that, I can send you mine if you need it.

 

Also I think (hope) HID will provide delidding and CLLU (I know Eurocom provides CLLU but I don't know about the delidding).

-Fred

 

Yes you can get an unlocked bios from svet. It looks very comprehensive, there's loads of obscure stuff in there that it's probably a really bad idea to mess with. It's a slightly involved process to get it installed but in the end not too difficult.

 

Does anybody happen to know if the unlocked bios has a "Wake on Lid Open" option, similar to what Asus bios's have ( example here)?

 

How does someone get into contact with Svet? I would love completely unlocked bios.

 

I don't think the "unlocked" bios from Eurocom are going to be completely unlocked. I'm probably going to see if I can get Svet (if/when I can get into contact with him) to make me a customized bios with logo.

 

Yeah, I think this is a generic Aptio bios thing, because a lot of business laptops have the same feature. It would also be cool if we could find out what version of the Thunderbolt firmware the new Tornado F5 V2 has. If its 17+ that would be great.

Have you tried contacting Svet via PM on the MSI forums?

 

We all do it, just have to ask the right guy for it.

 

there was nothing special in the current bios that I would use if it was unlocked. There actually is no support to change timings or blk or anything like that.

 

Ah, I figured you would Does Eurocom also offer delidding?

 

@woodzstack or anyone

Do you know if Eurocom has better practices than they used to? I stumbled upon this thread here, but its from 2009. You seem to know so much about the company...maybe they switched out presidents. I had a bad experience with another company...and I'm hardly even a fussy costumer. This dude here obviously had some serious beef.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...f-my-very-bad-experience-with-eurocom.428062/

Also checked out their BBB, which has C+: https://www.bbb.org/ottawa/business...ion-in-nepean-on-14649/reviews-and-complaints

To compare, LPC digital has A+, Dell A+, ASUS A-, Sager a D-, HIDevolution not accredited, Xotic A+

I feel like this is relevant to this thread, seeing its labeled eurocom tornado f5, and how there are more than a few complaints. I just want to gain perspective, as I know to take things like this with a grain of salt.

 

Prema will never make a bios for the F5 ... he only does Clevos.

 

As far as I know, the President at Eurocom is still the same person, Mark. I have read every post in this thread and so far the only instance of incorrect parts have been ram upgrades (the lower end part was out of stock or something).

I do know that for warranty work they only cover shipping one way, but I believe that if you receive a DOA machine, they may reimburse you on return shipping. You can always purchase through @woodzstack. He will buy the machine / parts from Eurocom, and assemble it himself. The machine I received from him has been perfect!

 

Okay, just redid the liquid metal, and got much better results! All tests were performed with 50% fan speed, an ambient temperature of 22 C, and no external coolers. Stress testing was performed using RealBench (15 minute test).

Before Delid + IC Diamond


After Delid + Not enough LM


After Delid + Slightly more LM


Looks like all in all I got a 10-15 C drop in my CPU max temperatures. GPU temps only dropped by 2 C, but it wasn't running hot to begin with, so I can't complain.

 

I want LM now. Ugh. I know I can handle doing it, but I don't really want to delid my 6700K.

 

IMO LM isn't really worth it unless it's a delid. See the comparison between IC diamond (top) and LM (bottom). Only a 2 C difference on the GPU. So why is there such a big effect on the CPU? Well, after researching about LM, it turns out the general consensus is the delid process itself (specifically the removal of silicone glue from the IHS) is actually the primary reason for lowering CPU temperatures. Usage of LM will only net you small gains. Some people don't even put LM between the CPU die and IHS, using IC Diamond instead, and still see ~8-10 C drop in temperatures. IMO, LM without a delid is just taking unnecessary risk.

 

Intel offers O/C support plan to warranty on "K" and "X" series processors:
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/faq‎
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/purchase-a-plan‎

 

people are gonna do it, watch. I will start having RMA's with dead motherboards with LCU or LM all over the place. Yeah I noticed you had to add more and more LM... I was not willing to continue adding more. If it becomes too much it's like a liquid that moves all over the place and it is pressed like a bar of soap in your hands being squeezed too tight. LM splashes outwards. SOOO many GPU's and CPU's and motherboards die because of this.

Odd when people see LM they don't understand how stupid crazy it is, but when they see Nitrogen cooling on a pot they're fine to not try that, which is about just as crazy IMO.

 

Would you please email [email protected] Attn: Support Manager your "beef" so we we take care of thisthis.

 

So change your love to Eurocom. We are Eurocom not MSI.

 

The processor has smaller die as well normally run hotter than Gpu. And the heatsink is made smaller. Well known that Liquid metal will not make the big difference on Gpu vs. proper quality thermal paste.

 

IMO Eurocom support is excellent. While I had a small situation with them when purchasing my F5, I was cautious in my dealing with them and my personal situation. Even though I was being very cautious and watching my own back, their responsiveness, truthfulness and attention to detail was 100% perfection. I was receiving emails form them on weekends at all hours of the night. I can only imagine that my emails were going to the head boss and he was directing my personal case. I have no reservation in recommending them to anyone in the future at this point.

 

Yes! I would never apply LM myself. I want it covered under warranty which is the real reason to buy from a builder and not buy factory builds.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

True, makes sense, but at some point your gonna have to do maintenance or keep getting others to do it.

 

Maybe once I'm out of warranty

I wish I had 20 mobo's to practice on - then I might trust myself with it.

You must have done this 100s of times!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

So just one thing to clarify guys. Do we know for sure that we are risking our future upgradeability gpu wise if we get the 1080? As they are apparently different and have different heatsinks. Just want to know before considering my order.

 

To be perfectly honest GPU upgrades aren't guaranteed with either version. The 11XX series from Nvidia might have a totally redesigned GPU/stacked memory layout and won't work with either laptop. Buy what fits you best now. While I do think GPU upgrades/downgrades and replacements might be easier with the 1070 version the 1080 is obviously the fastest gun in town. I would say go for the 1070 and save for the laptop replacement in a year or 2. But you do you!

 

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed to learn the MXM cards aren't really standard or necessarily interchangeable the way desktop PCIe cards are. To be fair, part of the problem is cooling and every laptop has a different constraint on how much heat can be drawn from the CPU and GPU. Bigger heat syncs and heat pipes help a lot but require more room and add weight.

 

@Talon You make some good points. I just want to avoid buying a new laptop in the next couple years actually, (I upgrade yearly as is) but with socket notebooks I'll have the option to upgrade, however like you said, if next gen of cards are not compatible, then I'll be forced to unit upgrade anyway. Such a pickle

 

We have final version of Kaby Lake BIOS available to all Eurocom Tornado F5 users free of charge. Please submit Support Request via our website and allow few days for your request to be processed. We will also offer KBL BIOS to non-Eurocom version of MS16L1x at extra charge. Our KBL BIOS supports both 10 series as well as GTX 970M/980M and we tested on generic version of MS16Lx.

 

We are planning to support next gen of GPUS the same way we do now in Tornado F5 which supports already 2generations of GPUS (gtx 9xxM and 1070/10801060) and 2 generations of CPUS. We are working on Tornado 7 too with 17.3" - maybe we make this model with Skylake-X.

 

But isn't the motherboard of the Tornado F5 different for the GTX-1070 and the GTX-1080? This topic has come up on this thread a few times.

EDIT: @woodzstack - any thoughts on this?

 

Yeah it would great if Eurocom could comment on this and let us officially know please, just helps make an informed decision, because correct me if I'm wrong, but we would be limited to the unique 1080 card design for future 11 series cards if the mobo and heatsinks are different than the other versions

 

LOL i still love u guys haha

 

I don't mean to be disrespectful or rude but why can't you guys just put bios updates in the downloads section for this laptop? Every laptop and computer company does it. I know you guys are trying to be different and not go with the flow, but in this regard it's more of an annoyance to me and I'm sure it is to others that we have to send in a request and fill out a form just for this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Does that plan include replacement support for delidding? I think it's only settings OC'ing, not physical hacks.

 

I've had my Tornado F5 for over two weeks and had contact with Eurocom for over two months now.

My opinion about Eurocom at first was pretty solid.
But i feel like they are too small of a company to really offer to the mass, their customer service sometime is good sometime is bad or inexistant. When you get in touch with the right people it gets easier but writing to the generic sale email adress or to the Facebook page was bad experience for me.

The laptop in it self (MSI 16L13) is a copy-cat of the GT62VR and is very solid, ergonomic and make the most out of it's size. But for some reason Eurocom assembly job is so bad, we've all seen Woodstacks picture on the forum and even tough my paste job wasn't as terrible they've put enough paste on my GPU/CPU heatsink for 3 notebook. Good thing it wasn't CLU/LM cause my laptop would of been DOA. Paste was just all over the place.
On top of that, Woodstackz showed a chip on the GPU that was damaged by screwing the Heatsink on it. They used the wrong tool to screw the Heatsink and damaged the ... 1000$+ GPU in my system and apparently (According to woodstackz) all the Tornado F5 are the same all the GPU Chip near the screw are damaged.

When my unit arrived tough it was much better than my MSI GT62VR. Much less crapware and much better stability. But looking on their website, they installed some driver they don't even use on the Tornado F5 driver page and i've seen people get really confused when it comes to Keyboard Lightning, Fan curve , etc etc ... On top of that some people got their unit with an unlocked BIOS for OC'ing and some other (Me) got their unit with a locked bios and just today they're asking people to email them for the new BIOS instead of just adding it on the Driver page of the Tornado F5 adding even more confusion.

With ALLLLLLL of that said.
My Tornado F5 is still a millions miles ahead of what my GT62VR was and i imagine all BGA notebook.
But let me put it this way : If you're not an enthousiat DO NOT BUY this notebook. It will require you to go trough some settings, search the web, read this page, youtube some video, install/uninstal program, write to Eurocom, Repaste the laptop.
If you're thinking about buying it trouble free and just use it out of the box for five years to come i believe this is the wrong laptop to go for.

I was used to real Desktop performance.
I had a 6700k - GTX 1070 Asus strix OC - Corsair H100i V2
32GB RAM , Samsung 950 pro and when i got my MSI GT62VR i was extremly upset about the overall performance, everything was kinda ''Choppy'' the in game performance we're terrible with the 6700HQ bottlenecking the 1070 all the time, my FPS in game we're so unstable it wasn't even funny.
Now with my Tornado F5 i get the same feeling of ''Snapiness'' when i open something it open right as i click on it and everything is smooth as hell, my performance in game are exacty the same as i had on my Desktop and i couldn't ask for more performance wise.

Bottom line, the F5 is a very good Notebook but it's not meant for everyone. You're not paying a premium for it's performance compared to competition but it comes with a Burden of being able to debug a lot of thing.
If you're not an enthousiat i repeat do not buy this laptop.

I'm still having trouble with my temps and still got that locked bios but overall i'm pretty happy with my unit.

 

its shame that you are havin these issues. there is always going to be issues for early adopters. my tornado with 6700k so far doesnt gave me single annoying issue. so far not a single crash in games and i have played bf1/forza3/rainbow siege/the division and many more games. temps are solid too, GPU never exceeds 75c and cpu within 80-85 on long session gaming and tht with stock auto fan profile(no repaste or delid).
I believe the general concept of "debugging your tornado before Usable" is completely wrong. i dont even have undervolt most of the time coz i forget launching TS( i know about puttin it to startup but maybe im lazy) at startup yet i dont have issues, laptop has been working absolutely fine without any tinkering.( i have it for over month and a half)
i really recommend it to anyone who dont mind size/weight of the laptop its a perfect little desktop with decent battery time.

 

I think you're referring to me about that "unlocked" bios. Guess what? My bios isn't unlocked. I have the same exact BIOS as you. No one, outside of those that have a Svet customized bios, has a truly unlocked BIOS. I also have a different mainboard than you, so that is why my EC's are slightly different.

You guys/gals have one of the most powerful 15'' computers in the world. Let me repeat that, you have one of the most powerful 15'' laptop computers in the world. So enjoy your computers and stop worrying about who has what.

 

Than why are you able to change voltage and multiplier? I don't believe this is because of the MB.
And excuse me, what is EC'S?

 

Actually, in regards to boutique type laptops and custom BIOSs from people like Prema or Svet, you're starting to see a trend where the BIOS is not available for download, and will only be installed by the reseller at their facility or thru a remote session.