Surface Book 2 (13" and 15", GTX 1050/1060) announced

Can you guys please run some tests and let us know how the 1050/1060 are doing under heavy load and games?

I would love to know!

 

grabbed the 8gb 13.5 “ model w/ a 1050 and best buy matched microsoft’s education discount, so it was 1799.10. First they said no, but when I told them I could go to the microsoft store to get the discount they caved. Haven’t had much time to play with it, will probably post later with some first impressions.

 

Any word on how the 15 inch is handling extended load? Is the dGPU turning off as has been reported?

 

Got my 13" machine yesterday. I never spent meaningful time with the original SB, so this was a new experience for me. This thing oozes quality, and I'm thrilled with it (at least when I can forget it cost me two grand to replace a laptop that didn't really need replacing). The 3:2 screen is as great as I expected, and I don't know how I could go back to 16:9 -- for web browsing and productivity apps, you just see so much more stuff. I don't begrudge two-line browser interfaces anymore. Keyboard is great, trackpad is great. Also (please don't laugh), comic books look amazing on the tablet, and I imagine it's generally a great e-reader.

It's not perfect. I do wish it had a Thunderbolt port, just for future-proofing. I also worry about the completely non-replaceable batteries. There's no BIOS setting to reduce maximum charge, and this will be plugged in and at max charge 98% of the time. The base battery would probably never degrade enough to matter, but the tablet battery is only good for a few hours even brand new, and degradation could be a real problem. So, that worries me a bit. Also, Intel's dynamic contrast (a second auto-brightness, basically) is on by default, but the drivers don't include the Intel panel to turn it off -- that's just offensive, really. Fortunately, someone found the registry line for it. And the headphone jack is in a stupid place. And.. umm... the grey color is a little boring? And... that's all I got to dislike. Not a lot.

Of those things, only the battery and lack of Thunderbolt are worrisome, and those are only potential issues for a couple of years from now. Everything else, I love. This is best laptop experience I've ever had.

Note that if you buy from the MS Store online, you can get the 10% education discount just by clicking for it, no proof required. Of course, buying it straight from MS means you're also paying tax no matter where you are (if your state has sales tax, that is).

 

O.k. update here: I have been gaming yesterday a good deal. Especially to find out about undervolting Settings. As it stands richt now - the more you undervolt, the more consistent the mhz seem to be. 1506 mhz with 0.875 V will not be as consistent as 1405 mhz @ 0.800 V on my end. Undervolting with Throttlestop seems possible. Been running -60 mV on CPU all Afternoon and evening. This will benefint in slightly better Boost.

Now for gaming. The 1050 is o.k. but will not handle any demanding games if you (like me) insist on having 60 FPS. Watchdogs on medium will run @ 45 FPS for example with 1500x1000p custom resolution. Any older games (thinking of my GoG Backlog will run flawless of course). To achive custom resolution you have to 1.) install the latest Intel UHD 620 Driver manually and then use 2.) Custom Resolution utility 1.3.1 to create the desired Resolution. After a restart you will be good to go.

The office and productivity part is great. Drawing, presenting, and reading!!! with the tablet part only are great.

Best regards

phila

Edit: Still no depleting of the battery while gaming plugged in...

 

So Far, The i7 1060 Book2 is awesome for business purposes, however even with -110 cpu UV It hits 100c cpu fast! This is just running firestrike, I have not yet ran a game.

Gpu hits around 78 not bad, but firestrike score of 7800 and graphics score of 9500 is a little weak, however I would still be ok with that score on this type of system but the 100c throttling CPU is just unacceptable.

Interested to see what others CPU temps reach? Perhaps I have a bad unit, if I cannot get that lower, then its going back.

 

Just found this article.

https://forums.windowscentral.com/m...0-cpu-throttling-under-load-after-1709-a.html

And mine is also on 1709 and even at 100c I cant hear the fans. So looks like they need to patch this?

The base I can hear the fans and feel the heat pushing out for the GPU, but not on the tablet.

 

Hi! Can you verify Undervolting does work... I can go to -250mV without crash... and without Temps/Watts sinking only a little. Semms just TS has noc effect...

Best reagards

phila

 

I ended up doing a refresh and then upgrading again to 1709.

Now I can hear the cpu fans, however they take a long time to get ramped up, thus the cpu hits 100 and then slowly drops back to around 91. I hope they can add a more aggressive fan curve?

As for UV the cpu, I have only tried XTU and need to run more test to verify its working correctly, but I can say anything over -130 I have reboots, so for you to even go -250 without crashing instantly on setting it, then I would assume TS is not performing at all on your current setup?

After doing the reinstall on os, my firestrike score is better with 10,500 gpu.

 

*edit* Found the registry for turning off dynamic contrast:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4d36e968-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0001]
"FeatureTestControl"=dword:00009240
Set it to 9250 and dynamic contrast is disabled.

Really pretty offensive that the machine ships without a menu option for this, though.

 

Do you have to apply the XTU Profile manually after each reboot? Sorry to ask, but I was never into XTU all that much...

Best regards

phila

 

Just got off the phone with support. They are sending me a new unit Monday.

It failed Intel IDPT test diags 3 times in a row for thermal issues. I honestly don't think mine even has any paste on it, soon as you start stress test it goes from 56c to 91c then 100c within 5seconds.

Hopefully the next one is better?

 

Microsoft Surface Book 2 Review

 

Yea, someone had the same issue over on the surface forums [the situation sounds so similar I may be rehashing old ground here]
Same issue with it immediately hitting 100c. When he posted a hwmonitor shot I noticed his machine was drawing 1.396v! For anyone that's not familiar with desktop overclocking, that's about max safe voltage for a desktop intel chip. In his case, trying to undervolt immediately caused system instability as the chip was being fed that much voltage just to keep it stable... causing the overheating.

FWIW My 15" hasn't spiked higher than 90c, and that was a brief spike during intel XTU stress test. HOWEVER, the CPU power throttles almost CONSTANTLY during the test [high performance mode on. Also tried a little undervolting, and it seemed to make no difference in clocks or thermals whatsoever. Of course, I only attempted a -.050 so far, so maybe I didn't drop it enough.

 

Sorry to hear this. I really hope, your next model rocks. You should not have to send back such a „Premium Product"

Best regards

phila

 

I haven't had enough time to play games on my Surface Book 2 to test if the battery drains under a heavy load. I can tell you it definitely doesn't charge when playing something like the witcher 3. When I get a chance I'll going to try using throttle stop and see if that helps.

 

Personally the battery drain does not bother me that much as this system is a quick fix for on the road gaming 1-2hours.

I do love that I now at least have that option to game, instead of hauling my gaming notebook and tablet for movies on the plane.

 

I don’t game on my notebooks very much. So it likely won’t be an issue for me. Plus I’ve been playing a lot of indie games, so battery drain won’t be much of a problem for me.

I’ve actually been enjoying the screen of this laptop a lot. Been really enjoying Netflix on it. Speakers have literally no base though. Only short coming.

I can’t decide if I want to pick up the surface pen for it though. I used it a lot when I had a surface pro 3. Found it really useful. But I’m finding the tablet mode of this 15” monster a bit silly.

 

On a completely tangential aside regarding indie games -- if you haven't played Hollow Knight, you should play Hollow Knight.

This is my first gaming-capable laptop (even if a 1050 isn't exactly hardcore). I think Witcher 3 will probably be my first Western-style rpg. I'm hoping for a Thanksgiving Steam sale.

 

Not wantign to go completely off topic, but if you mention Hollow Knight, I got to mention Salt & Sanctuary -> 2D Dark Souls! Perfect!

By the way: If you do not need to play the latest titels (I use my big machine for those while the SB2 is for work - mainly) you will be amazed how flawless the 13" will bring to live oder titles. I enjoy playing Fable Aniiversary at the moment an ta 1500x1000p the SB2 is so silent producing 60 FPS at ease that i am really astonished.

Best regards

phila

P.S.: You should definetely give The Wither 3 a closer look!

 

I was really looking forward to this laptop.

Based on the pre-release hands on videos and information, it looked like it blurred the lines between business and gaming which is exactly what I wanted.

I was willing to overlook the lack of TB3 but this whole power situation has got me spun.

I understand that under full gaming load on a triple A title it will drain battery, the question I have now that I'm not entirely clear from what I've read is if it also at the same time begins to the throttle the GPU. If that's the case, then I won't be purchasing the laptop. If the laptop can provide a few hours of non-throttled gaming at the expense of battery life while plugged in, I may be able to be okay with that.

Thoughts?

Also, here's the latest on the power issue and how Microsoft feels about it which is pretty much "operating as intended".

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/21/16685986/microsoft-surface-book-2-power-problem

 

I was about to post that article. Curses!!!!

So what happens under a full load the battery in the keyboard section will slowly drain under Best Performance mode. There three options when you click on the battery icon in the lower left corner so it's quick to switch between them. Recommended, Better Performance, and Best Performance. In Recommended mode if you play games the laptop will keep itself from blasting the fans and keep them at a very low rpm. You can't hear them when gaming. But, since the fans are on low the components are going to heat up really high when playing high end games. The Better performance pushes the fans a bit more. But it has the same problem as the Recommended settings. Best Performance is exactly as it sounds. You can run games and 1080p on high settings and get 60 fps on alot of titles. So it's very capable in gaming. I didn't pay enough attention to battery drain, but I think you could get around 3-4 hours of gaming while plugged in. So playing a marathon on this device isn't really a strong suit. And if you want a laptop for just gaming this is not the device. But, it has several strong points.

One of the biggest pluses of this device is the keyboard. It's no mechanical keyboard, but compared to other laptops I've used this keyboard as a joy to type on. It almost makes me wish I did blogs for living. The layout feels natural and the spacing makes it easy to type without making alot of mistakes.

Outside of heavy work loads the device has some very insane battery life. So if you travel alot and like watching movies and such on an airplane this laptop would easily work. I've watched hours of Netflix on this device and never came close to running low on battery like I would on a gaming laptop.

The screen is a really nice step up from normal laptops. There may not be any 120hz or G-Sync gimmicks, but it's very nice to look at and has some of the best blacks I've seen on a laptop. Hence why watching movies is such a pleasure on the device.

Overall, if you're looking for a work / entertainment device first and a gaming laptop second then I'd recommend this laptop. If you want something that is gaming first then you really do need to look somewhere else.

I took the plunge on this Laptop because I don't game on my laptop much anymore, I wanted to replace my tablet, and wanted something I could take with me for long periods on time between charges. So far it's not disappointing.

Did I mention the trackpad is actually good? lol

 

Yeah, I *do* write for a living, and the nice keyboard and 3:2 screen is really fantastic. Suddenly, I'm seeing so much more of my MS Word documents at once. I wish the keyboard were quieter, but it's great to work on.

I've also ordered the BaseQi fitted micro SD adapter (it sits flush with the slot). I had a 128GB micro SD card lying around, and I don't use full-size SD cards for anything, so the SD slot basically becomes an expansion port for a second hard drive. I got the 256GB model, so that's a handy bit of future-proofing.

Anyway, the more I use this thing, the more I like it.

 

So guys, in the end is good or not for gaming?

 

You really think their loud? Huh. I thought they were rather soft sounding. Lol. Glad to hear you agree that it is a great keyboard. It’s strange that a hybrid would have a great keyboard.

I haven’t picked up and external storage yet. I was thinking of an external usb c ssd. Would be nice to keep some things off the device.

I can’t speak for the 1050 model, but my 1060 15” model games like a champ. It’s no where near as loud as a 1060 gaming laptop and the battery drain is roughly 10% per hour. Less if you play less demanding games. I’ve been enjoying another round of Dark Souls 3 and get 6-7% drain an hour at 1920x1200 on high settings. So yes it’s games well for a work laptop.

 

Microsoft confirms Surface Book 2’s power problem
Not ideal for gaming
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/21/16685986/microsoft-surface-book-2-power-problem

Surface Book 2 can’t stay charged during gaming sessions
The power supply isn't strong enough for continuous NVIDIA usage, Microsoft confirmed.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/21/surface-book-2-battery-charging-gaming-issues/

Surface Book 2 suffers from performance throttling, charging abnormalities, and slower response times
Though a visual delight, the new Surface Book isn't doing anything to buck the trend of notorious hardware headaches that has become the norm across the Surface lineup.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surfa...ities-and-slower-response-times.264060.0.html

Don’t Buy The Surface Book 2 For Gaming !
http://geeksnipper.com/dont-buy-the-surface-book-2-for-gaming/6568/

 

What about temperature?

 

Thats bad.. so they put on it a gtx 1060 and one power adapter that is not enough for for gpu/cpu side during gaming.
great mentality from microsoft.

 

The last article I linked also speculates it's a 1060 Max-Q, IDK where they got that idea, but if so, it's still faster than a 1050ti

The real downer is the pricing, hovering around $3000 in the mid configuration, even higher priced model(s) exist.

Even for a full 1060 with OC'able GPU / CPU and power to drive it to the maximum performance (230w), that's way too much cash.

And, the CPU is a 15w jobber that's not gonna hold long power runs in gaming, better to get a full 45w BGA CPU, at least that will keep the GPU busy.

Asus even has a 144hz display + 7820K unlocked CPU + 1080 OC'd out of the box laptop for the same price as the Surface Book 2 1060 top model... kinda easy to decide which a gamer would prefer

ASUS ROG G703VI-XH74K 17.3" 144Hz G-Sync Gaming Laptop - Intel Core i7-7820HK, GTX 1080, 512GB SSD RAID 0 + 1TB Hybrid SSHD, 32GB DDR4, Win 10 Pro + Gaming Bundle
$3,949.00 MSRP
$3,499.00 Discounted Price (newegg only?)
Save: $450.00 (11%)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...V6685&cm_re=G703VI-_-9SIA57X6JV6685-_-Product

 

So Better to focus on a gaming laptop, I own a tornado f5 7700k and gtx 1080, is enough, however im really disappointed about the surface book 2..

 

I as well don`t thing it is apt to provide a power adapter that can not support the GTX 1060 appropriately.

Still I am absolutely satisfied with the performance the 13,5" version offers.

Perfect Notebook on the go that can handle 85% of the games in my backlog.

Best regards

phila

 

I didn’t monitor the temps so I’ll get back to you on that. And I had the laptop on my chest last night before I went to bed playing Dark Souls 3 for about 45 minutes. ((Shirtless too mind you)) And the keyboard area with the gpu in it got medium-hot. Not even to burn or be uncomfortable. Escpecially if you had it on your lap. So they did a good managing external temps.

And I read somewhere that the main reason for the underpowered adapater is because the propriety port they have for charging might not be able to support much more than it currently does. I wouldn’t put too much stock into that as truth though.

Microsoft really should’ve gotten rid of that port and added a thunder bolt port. I can understand they don’t want people using external GPUs, but they could’ve disabled that ability.

 

Not loud, just not quiet either. In a library or conference room, if you're typing the folks near you will clearly hear every keystroke. I'd have loved a little more dampening to make it a bit more acceptable to type in those situations. However, that's a small concern next to the springy, deep keys. I worry a little that as the keyboard breaks in it might get too loose, but right now it feels excellent.

I admit that it's a bit silly to have a quad-core i7 with dedicated graphics as basically a word processing machine, but there's no denying that the keyboard and 3:2 ratio are very well-suited for it. (I just couldn't bring myself to get the $1500 model with last year's chips. It feels vaguely insulting that it's even offered in that configuration.)

 

Replacement 15 1tb came today. Temps are great CPU under load hits high of 86 GPU around 78.

I am running out of room with all these damn laptops I have lol.

 

Ah ok. Well what you should do is if anyone looks at you while you're typing away is to say "You're just jealous my laptop has a removable screen." lol.

Yeah I have no idea why the base model doesn't have the 8550u or 8650u. I'm guessing it would cannibalize their sales on the Surface Pro.

Just send me one. I have room for more stuff.



Question for both of you. Did either of you decide to pick up the Surface Pen for your Surface Book? I'm on the fence about it since it was another $100. Plus that sexy Cobalt Blue isn't in stock anywhere.

 

I never used the pen on any of the Surfaces I have had so I see no reason for myself personally to get one?

If I thought I would use though I would for sure buy.

 

When I had my Surface Pro 3 I felt like the pen made the experience. For that device I thought it made it the ultimate experience. There are times where I miss the Pen with the surface book. But, with the track pad being so good on this laptop I haven't had much drive to pick one up. Maybe I should go to a Microsoft store and make a sales rep show me how it would be essential to my Surface Book experience. lol


So have you tried tablet mode? I almost cried I was laughing so hard at how ridiculous it was to be holding a 15" tablet. With out a kick stand it's not as appealing as the Surface Pro.

 

This machine already cost me $1920 ($2000 minus student discount plus tax minus credit card cashback). And I'm liking it enough that I'll probably spring for the $250 second year of warranty, just for ease of mind since it's unrepairable. So, I didn't buy the pen. Another $100 seems like a lot for a toy I probably won't use. I'm fine with that, though -- I'm not an artist. If I were feeling less guilty about buying an overpriced word processor, though, I'd probably grab it just for the funs. Trying it at the store, I must admit it's very cool.

 

Yes, I like having the tablet option but not sure I would use other than on a flight and probably then I would dock it in backwards and lay flat?

Overall I love it.

 

Looking at getting the 15. Has anyone run into throttling while gaming yet. How long did it go before it throttled?

 

Thermal Throttling or Power throttling? It does both fairly quickly. But older and less demanding games are very playable. And newer AAA titles can be played as long as you don't mind the wear to the battery.

I don't know why anyone would buy this that isn't a niche artist that needs the superb pen support + GPU power. If you want a slim premium gaming machine, there are far better options.

 

Replacement unit I have has had 0 thermal throttle, but I am using TS at -100core -70cache.

Played about an hour of shadows of war and temps max was 91 cpu 81 Gpu, battery dropped 4%

I would not recommend this as a gaming system as its not but for the traveling professional that likes good battery life, clean looking system and ability to game from time to time, I do not know what other system I would purchase for those specifics?

 

Those are the reasons I choose this system!

 

The new stylus was one of the most important features for me. I am not a designer but I use my SB2 plugged into a beamer as a whiteboard at school. And while the former pean in combination with my Surface Pro 3 was really good. This one is almost perfect. Writing is silky smooth yet very direct! Unfortunately MS does not include the pen but for me it was worth the extra 100,-€

Tablet mode on 15" was one of the reasons (that made me not wait for the 15"). The 13." Tablet ist allready somewhat big, but for reading (Humble Comic Bundle) it is almost perfect. Surfing and checking mails as well. Yes I like the table mode on the 13,5".

Throttlestop works for you? Or is there a new version that just arrived - as TS was not working for me... on the 13.5"

Best regards

phila

 

Yes, it appears to be working for me? Temps without TS after playing Shadows of war for roughly 45min was 97c temps with TS on was 91c.

Not amazing temps if compared to a full gaming pc, but for me they are acceptable. FPS was steady 38-40

I find myself doing more work though and really enjoying the keyboard and screen.

How did you know TS was not working?

 

I managed to undervolt -250 adaptive on CPU without the watt usage droping or crashing of any sort.

Best regards

phila

P.S.: Are you using custom video drivers?

 

No I use the current Nvidia drivers.

 

Are any of you technically-inclined folks doing anything for battery health? It makes me nervous to leave it plugged in and idling at 100% charge, but that's my usage so there's not much getting around it. If there's a way to limit the max charge, I can't find it. The 15" especially is clearly going to be a desktop replacement for a lot of people, and the existence of the Surface Dock presupposes that these machines will often be left permanently plugged in. So, this use case seems to be by design. Am I paranoid to even worry about it? The tablet has meh battery life already, and I'd hate to see it degrade.

 

You should just buy the extended warranty from Microsoft, I think 250.00? I am calling them Monday to purchase it.