http://www.techradar.com/reviews/microsoft-surface-book-2
Almost perfect, just missing TB3.
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A surface book with a 1060 gtx... while Asus, Acer, Lenovo etc. sell us "Gaming Notebooks" with a 1050 gtx...unbelievable.
Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 -
The 13" model has the 1050. which is probably good enough for me. I want the 13" maxed out. and I want Microsoft to release a surface studio monitor without the computer built in. The ultimate computing device for me.
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ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso
Still no I/O on the tablet portion
Microsoft's resistance to thunderbolt is ridiculous
Still only a device for creatives without those 2 things -
The laptop definitely interests me.
I'm wondering what the thermals will be like at full gaming load with the 8th generation Intel chip and the Nvidia 1060.
The photos at the event show the internals of the device along with the fans and heat sink setup.
Does anyone have any thoughts of how well they think the device will be cooled and if it'll throttle?
I'm wondering how the 7700HQ and 8550U compare in full gaming loads (performance and thermals). -
ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso
The CPU performance is a tougher question though because the i7-8xxxU + GTX 1060 or above is not a pairing that has been reviewed yet. -
It will be most interesting to read the reviews when this machine is used to run current triple-A gaming titles at decent resolutions and settings. Can a modern thermally-efficient low-power CPU run modern games well if it's combined with a proper GPU?
Personally, I can't wait to find out. I've got some doubts about whether this will ultimately compare well with gaming-targeted laptops fitted with much higher-TDP CPU chips, but, *appropriately or not*, the inclusion of the 1060 GPU in the 15-inch model will guarantee such comparisons will be made.
If it turns out that a lot of games run fine on the lower power cpu as long as the GPU is doing the heavy lifting, I can see myself being interested in one. A 2 pound sports coupe that plays my games acceptably well might be a very attractive alternative to my current little 6 pound tank, even with a minor (<10fps would be acceptable, otherwise, no) frame rate drop.
edit: I forgot to mention my concerns about repairability, though. These *very* compact machines have a dismal record with sites like ifixit on the issue of repairability, and I'm fearful that using a machine like this for a high-demand, punishing usage like extended gaming might (probably will) push the machine to and beyond its limits. If something breaks, not only can you likely not replace or repair it yourself, it may not be repairable at all. A reputable extended warranty would be mandatory in my opinion.
Sent from my SM-G955U using TapatalkLast edited: Oct 18, 2017 -
In my eyes, this might be the ultimate allround machine! I do wonder how the thermals will be and how loud it will be under load. Kinda cool to have a decent gaming laptop that can turn in to a tablet and you get the turn the display around to play games when you only use a controller.
Edit: According to the verge, the 13.5" doesn't have a cooling fan for the cpu... Also, would have been cool if they had released the MS Studio as monitor only with the MS Dock integrated in the base all running and powering the Book 2 over that MagSave thing.Last edited: Oct 19, 2017 -
Yes. Agreed, I want the studio Monitor and a book 2 13" maxed out....Should send a petition to Microsoft to make the surface monitor. the studio without the computer...but still have touch, pen and dial support! WOULD HAVE THAT IN A HOT SECOND.
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Like TJCacher, I'm very curious on thermals and what performance will be like with the U chip and the 1060. Can't wait to see reviews and benchmarks! -
The first MS Book had a somewhat odd headsink if i remember correectly. Something like a heatsink/vaporchamber without fins paired with a small fan.
The gpu in the base should have lot's of space for cooling. Something like the blade, but without cpu would probably cool very well.
MS Book base:
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If only it had a full power TB3 port!
Why Microsoft ?WHY!
It’s a almost perfect system for me but it’ll all come down to thermals and if it throttles in any way.
Will wait for reviews before going all in or not.
Is this a full GTX 1060 or Max Q version?Darkhan likes this. -
Buying the loaded out 15 first day.
I gave my mom my original surface book but I loved it, agree on the tb3 but I can live without for now.phila_delphia and hmscott like this. -
Every person I've talked with that has a Surface laptop for any length of time complains about it, has had it replaced at least once - or wishes they had - because who has time to deal with an RMA when you are a college student that depends on it for getting class work done. They deal with the crappy problems and keep chugging along.
Microsoft Surface Laptops and Tablets Not Recommended by Consumer Reports
The problem is predicted reliability, with estimated two-year breakage rates of 25 percent
By Consumer Reports
August 10, 2017
https://www.consumerreports.org/lap...-tablets-not-recommended-by-consumer-reports/
"Consumer Reports is removing its “recommended” designation from four Microsoft laptops and cannot recommend any other Microsoft laptops or tablets because of poor predicted reliability in comparison with most other brands.
To judge reliability, Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers about the products they own and use. New studies conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center estimate that 25 percent of Microsoft laptops and tablets will present their owners with problems by the end of the second year of ownership.
The decision by Consumer Reports applies to Microsoft devices with detachable keyboards, such as the new Surface Pro released in June and the Surface Book, as well as the company’s Surface Laptops with conventional clamshell designs."
Why Consumer Reports Once Again Won’t Recommend Microsoft’s New Surface Book 2
by Shane McGlaun — Sunday, October 22, 2017
https://hothardware.com/news/surface-book-2-consumer-reports
" Microsoft and Consumer Reports ( CR) have no love for each other of late with CR putting a blanket decision in withdraw recommendations for Microsoft Surface laptops and tablets. The original Surface Book from Microsoft received the "Recommended" rating from CR, only to see it retracted after the publication claimed that its surveys showed that there were issues in as many as 25% of all Surface Book laptops."
"With that blanket decision to not issue any "Recommended" ratings to Microsoft devices, this means that new Surface Book 2 won't receive the rating no matter how good it is.
CR spokesperson James McQueen wrote, "We will evaluate the performance of the Microsoft Surface Book 2 once we get it into our labs next month for testing, but we will not be able to recommend it.
Our decision to withhold our recommendation of all Microsoft laptops and tablets is still in effect."Last edited: Oct 22, 2017 -
I have had 2 surface and the one surface book, never any issues and my mom has now had it for the past 7 months never any issues still.
I had a few small issues like unlatching the screen and it not working correctly and have to do it twice for it to properly work but that is small.
Maybe I have just been lucky?phila_delphia and hmscott like this. -
That's way too high of a failure rate though, so be prepared with a good warranty + quick review and action for problems before they get old.Last edited: Oct 22, 2017Darkhan likes this. -
I've had a SB since launch and have had no problems either besides your regular W10 hiccups now and then. Guess I've been lucky too
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If we're just contributing data points here, then here's mine. I've got a nice little Surface 2 (pro? not even sure) Tablet with an i5, 8gb, and 256gb ssd.
I used it lightly for a little over a year and gave it to my GF who needed it for work. She used it a bit more heavily for close to a year, and it stopped booting the day before she needed it for a big presentation, taking her latest (after midnight!) edits with it.
We weathered that crisis (thanks to OneDrive backups and my Alienware laptop), and after a month or so, she brought the Surface back to me (we had bought her a nice Dell convertible which she loves), to see if it was fixable.
I got it to boot, but it was reliably crashing moments after the desktop appeared.
Didn't feel like troubleshooting it, so I just reset it and reinstalled Windows on it. So far it's running fast and smooth, no problems.
So I don't know if that experience would count as an "issue" as mentioned by CR or not, but it was a relatively easy and, so far, effective fix.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk -
Anyone know the availability of the 15 inch models outside of the US, EU specifically?
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phila_delphia Notebook Consultant
Might be we are just lucky as well.
Best regards
phila
I`m thinking about preodering the SFB2 as soon as possible (November 9th, over here).Darkhan likes this. -
The surface 3 keyboards I had were terrible...but that should not be an issue with the book. they were way to flexy. I love my dell much more than my surface 3. but the book 2 looks like a killer device!
Vasudev likes this. -
No thunderbolt port is a bit of a drag. But, a 1060 on the 15” model has me interested. That would be powerful enough to play modern AAA games at 1080p. And the 95W to charge it would mean it’s possible to use an external battery to operate the device on the go.
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ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso
Normal gtx 1060 IS 90w with 100w Boost.
The SB 15 has i7-8650U 25w CPU and with everything else (say ~15w for panel and motherboard) leaves only 55w for GPU
Of course they could use "battery boost" but that is another whole can of worms in itself.hmscott, Starlight5, Darkhan and 1 other person like this. -
I kinda figured it was. Notebook check says a 1060 max q runs between 60-70w. So you might be right. Microsoft likely undervolted it more. That does actually make me second guess getting one. . .hmmStarlight5 and Vasudev like this. -
Gaming performance floats around 80-90% (title dependent) - so depending on your game, it could be a significant hit. But my Alienware runs MUCH cooler and quieter (obviously). I find it to be a pretty acceptable solution most of the time, except when trying to drive a 1440P external display. For 1080P, it works really well. I do find the Alienware will “battery boost” in this mode as well, but that’s because of the 45 watt CPU and GPU combo. Monitoring power draw in HWInfo shows the GPU caps out just under 60 watts, and the CPU basically turns off turbo boost (I don’t recall the power draw). -
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To each his own, I love having AWD and use it a lot!
be77solo, phila_delphia and Darkhan like this. -
phila_delphia Notebook Consultant
Best regards
philaDarkhan likes this. -
I got the 15 i7 1tb before they sold out on the 9th. As much as I loved the first one, I am sure I will love the 2nd.
phila_delphia likes this. -
I understand the concerns with 1060 Max Q version, but in reality, the SB2 isn't meant to be a gaming power house. Thus maximizing battery life was a priority. I am eager to see the performance gap between the 1060 and 1060 Max Q version.
I preordered an SB2 15" 1TB for work/travel.phila_delphia likes this. -
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ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso
It was supposed to be the ultimate 2 in 1 device; but in reality it is tethered to the base without real freedom as a tablet. I suspect M$ decided it would eat into Surface Pro sales too much if they gave it i/o (and better battery) on the tablet portion. Hopefully they improved on the 1 hour 20 min battery of the tablet portion for SB 2hmscott likes this. -
I didn’t end up pre-ordering one. Want to see some reviews on this first. Still very much interested. What kept me from the first one was just how weak it was compared to how expensive it was. Not saying it’s not expensive now, but atleast with the unique form factor and features it’s a lot more justifiable. I might be leaning more towards the smaller model. Oh the wait and see game. Lol
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It’s pretty close but....will still wait for reviews.hmscott likes this. -
The Verge says that wimpy power supply cannot provide enough power so when gaming, once both batteries get depleted, it disables the 1060. So sad....
"One issue I did run into with the Surface Book 2 is the power supply. Microsoft has only supplied a 102-watt charger with a machine that has an Nvidia GTX 1060 inside. Most similar laptops are gaming ones that have 150-watt or even 200-watt power supplies. There are two batteries inside the Surface Book 2, one in the base and one in the tablet portion (screen) itself. The base battery discharges too quickly with the supplied charger, meaning the Nvidia card (located in the base) will disconnect in the middle of a long gaming session at maximum performance even if you’re plugged in." -
Right now it seems there is a Microsoft store near me. So if they have any in stock tommorrow I'll try and pick one up. Though I'm sure they'll be out of stock by the time I get there. -
Sounds good. If I knew this were untrue I would definitely be considering the SB2
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Peter Bright from Ars Technica in his review also noted this insufficient power supply issue ( https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...performance-but-lightning-hasnt-struck-twice/):
"And this brings up a rather peculiar, surprising issue. The supplied power adaptor can deliver 95W of power. The Surface Dock, too, can deliver around 90W. Under heavy load, however, the Surface Book 2 can draw more than 95W. How does it do this? Simple—it supplements the power it's pulling from the wall with the power in the batteries. If you're running an intensive game, or punishing benchmarks such as 3DMark's Time Spy, the battery in the base will slowly drain even when the Surface Book 2 is plugged in. Once the base battery gets low enough, the discrete GPU will be turned off."
"This is surprising. I could easily imagine packing up the laptop after a gaming session and assuming it'll be fully charged—after all, it has been plugged into the wall—only to discover that the battery is nearly empty. What I don't understand here is why Microsoft's chargers are underspecified. The processor can draw 25W in its high-power mode (it can even burst to 35W for very short periods); depending on which variant of the 1060 Microsoft is using, that can draw either 80W or 70W (for the lower-power "Max Q" variant). So that's as much as a (sustained) 105W just for the two processors. To that you need to add the screen, memory, SSD, and all the other bits and pieces in the system."
"In short, this is a machine that should have shipped with a charger of maybe around 150W. At the very least, it should provide enough power to keep the batteries from discharging when under heavy load, and, frankly, I think it should be possible to charge the batteries even during gaming. But, with the charger Microsoft has supplied, there's simply no way of doing that. If I were to hazard a guess, I wonder if 100W or thereabouts is the upper limit to Microsoft's proprietary Surface Connect port, and Microsoft chose to keep the port unmodified (to provide continued compatibility with the Surface Dock) rather than uprate it to handle the demands of the new machine. If that hunch is correct, I think this was the wrong choice. Not least because someone dropping $2,499 or more on the system can probably spring for a new, high-power Surface Dock if they really have to."
Link for another (video) reviewer deleted.
EDIT:
Apologize, the guy in the video actually had battery drain with the surface dock. Sorry about my initial inaccurate characterization of what was in the video, I removed it.Last edited: Nov 16, 2017hmscott likes this. -
Well. . .maybe the 13.5” model doesn’t have this problem. But, I think the 1050 would be too weak for my gaming needs.hmscott likes this. -
ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso
Otherwise what is the point of supplying high end hardware that can't take high load, be it for gaming, or for work purposes.
Also, in a machine that there is no way to replace either battery; battery boost is a huge problem due to the wear it causes.neohopper likes this. -
I agree. It feels like they really just wanted to check off a box. We have a 1060 in our laptop! Take that Apple!
I wasn’t aware that battery boost was a wear on the battery?Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 -
Edit: sorry this has already been posted
Ars Technica:
"And this brings up a rather peculiar, surprising issue. The supplied power adaptor can deliver 95W of power. The Surface Dock, too, can deliver around 90W. Under heavy load, however, the Surface Book 2 can draw more than 95W. How does it do this? Simple—it supplements the power it's pulling from the wall with the power in the batteries. If you're running an intensive game, or punishing benchmarks such as 3DMark's Time Spy, the battery in the base will slowly drain even when the Surface Book 2 is plugged in. Once the base battery gets low enough, the discrete GPU will be turned off." -
ThePerfectStorm Notebook Deity
Does anyone know if the 13.5" model has its battery drained under full load?
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk -
I think the 13.5” model is only passively cooled for the cpu though. So you would get throttling on the cpu on the 13.5” model. -
ThePerfectStorm Notebook Deity
Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkTerreos and phila_delphia like this. -
phila_delphia Notebook Consultant
The Surface Book 2 arrived yesterday at the early afternoon. So far I am perfecty amazed. The 3D options of nvidia control are not that good, but the rest is flawless. I could not imagine how light the tablet part is and how super smooth the interaction via digitizer! Best of all: How quiet this small thing is.
best regards
phila
Last edited: Nov 17, 2017ThePerfectStorm and Terreos like this. -
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phila_delphia Notebook Consultant
Oh man... I am SO SORRY! Just read that the tablet part ist passiely cooled. I was irretated about the louvers around the tablet... Still Notebookceck made the same mistake (kinda consoling on my end...)
AGAIN: SORRY!
phila -
ThePerfectStorm Notebook Deity
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalkphila_delphia likes this. -
Bestbuy got some Surface Book 2's in stock. So I'm going to have a 15" in my possession by tomorrow. I'll be chiming back in to let everyone know about the battery drain and first impressions when I do.phila_delphia likes this.
Surface Book 2 (13" and 15", GTX 1050/1060) announced
Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by iMbaQ, Oct 17, 2017.