Foam dam barriers for Liquid Metal safety insurance guide.

I really have no idea how to find it. I went to buy just the plywood & mdf sheets and accidentally stumbled upon it. It was a furniture warehouse, not exactly a shop. I can't visit that place again as I've shifted to another city. If i have to take a wild guess i think foam sheets like this are used to protect laminates. I'll try to ask a few people i know in woodworking if they know where this kind of foam is used. They might have an idea. I'll post here if i find anything.

Yep. It is. I have some packing foams as well but they're a bit stiffer.

 

I'm curious as to what benefit foam has over tape? I feel like tape is thick enough to provide a barrier since the CPU and heatsink are so close together where trying to find the correct foam is more of a headache and might not work as well. If anything just use a couple layers of tape on top of each other if you think it's not thick enough.

 

Laptop heatsinks are often mounted upside down

Foam stops the potential of LM escape by running along the heatsink (or along the top of the tape and out onto mobo)

It's not an either/or thing. Both are added methods of protection.

Also I use liquid electrical tape now. The Kapton tape I've used in the past has occasionally lifted in spots, and doesn't completely gap fill around the smds. Going on as a liquid, the nail polish/conformal coating/LET options do

Here's some I've done over time. Ivy bridge, Pascal (GP104), LGA IHS. Very compressible packing foam. That Ivy bridge one I cut in half as it was too thick iirc

 

Tape doesn't work.
if there is any excess liquid metal, it just runs over the tape. Or rather, since most laptops are inverted these days, the liquid metal runs over the heatsink itself if there is any gap at all. All it takes is a tiny drop.

Have you ever played with liquid metal? It acts similar to water drops. It basically adheres to 'itself', so a drop that escapes off the CPU die area can potentially "pull" other LM to it (In either direction).
Tape is to be used as an insulator in case a little bit of liquid metal does happen to spill over, it won't short out the resistors around the CPU or GPU immediate BGA area. Also, tape does decrease the amount of "space" between the heatsink and silicon itself, so it reduces the ability of LM to run off by reducing the space. However it does NOT prevent it completely! A sharp vibration or drop could overcome the tiny gap and liquid metal can squeeze outwards more.

The foam dam is an emergency dam to prevent your mainboard from being destroyed if any LM DOES escape. It's insurance. If you ever drop your laptop and then see the temps skyrocket afterwards, you will be very glad you had that foam dam barrier, and all you have to do is repaste, rather than potentially buy a new mainboard (or laptop).

*edit* @bennyg ninja'd me.

 

Thank you both for this information. I have never actually used Liquid Metal myself, only seen lots of pics and threads of others applying it.
I actually have a TON of foam that I bought from this place >> https://www.foambymail.com/

They have a bunch of foam to choose from and I needed to find which one compressed the best while also protecting my laptop while it was in this Pelican case I have. I'll give them a look over and see if there are any I can smush down real hard to fit under my heatsink. I'm not sure what HIDevolution does to keep their Liquid Metal in maybe @Donald@HIDevolution can give me a little bit of knowledge on that one, but as far as I could tell they only used Kapton Tape but so far my laptop has survived 4 shipments and many many many trips to work and a trip down to Texas without any issues!

 

Production techniques are above my pay grade. For details, I would recommend writing [email protected].

 

Here's mine. Not pretty, but it works.

 

interesting thread for me because i am thinking about using LM on my Laptop too...
but what temperatures could this foam-barriers resist?
i dont want that it can slowly start to burn…?

 

Should be up to 100C. Most I ever saw was the material slightly melted at worst. It isn't going to burn or anything. There's no ignition source. I have a foam barrier in my 95C running RX Vega 64 (well the HBM gets that hot) and no boom yet.

 

the biggest problem for me would be the trimming… how did you did that to 1mm?

 

I used a fresh double-edged razor blade (the kind you use for shaving) and made the first cut as thin and even as I could comfortably do. I tried standing the foam on its end and squishing it against the table and making a slice like that, but my best effort was to shave off a very thin piece by making careful cuts with the razor. Using a sawing motion with the blade worked best for me. Took me a few tries. With DE blades you could probably tape one edge so you don't cut yourself. I didn't, no blood but the blades flex. I felt like I could get a thinner cut than with a regular razor blade. I needed two or three blades, cutting the foam a few times dulled the edges pretty quick.

 

I had the same concern but mine is fine after a few months. The foam isn't even melted on to the edge of the heatsink or anything.

 

i found this foam in a Box with old Parts... gladdly i am kepping everything
is 6 mm uncompressed but with a little pressure it goes to < 1mm ... i can see my skin shine through... do you think that material will be ok?

 

Yeah that's the exact stuff you need. Not the thicker stuff but what you have is fine.
What kind of foam is it called, anyway?

 

it's the underlying material in the original box of an old & fine Asus A7N8X Motherboard from the year 2002

 

That's the stuff I used. I _think_ it's Polyurethane foam. Could be Polyester.
Look at this stuff, several nice things to note (aside from it's porosity and thinness)
https://www.apsoparts.com/ishop/fr-FR/Complementary Products/Filter, filter media, technical woven fabrics/Dry filtration/Air- and climate filter/Filter foam sheet type PPI 10/product/node/14835/product/10.8321.06.xhtml

It's in French, but these are the specifications. Google PUR PP1 10, looks promising

• Material: PUR foam, ester base, open pores
• Type: PP1 10 (number of pores per linear inch)
• Operating temperature: -45 to +120 ° C
• Color: black
• Application: suction filters, fibril filters, noise dampers
• Standard format: 2000 x 1000 mm

 

would you guys prefer Scotch +33 (i think thinner and up to 105C) or Kapton-tape (much higher C) thinking in the way of long term heat associated drying-out?

it's a Clevo P671HS - did you also replace the blue thermal pads in the picture located around the GPU?

i am currently looking at 0.5mm:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00UYTT3I2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1

or:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00ZC66RK4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1


aaaand should i also change the white rubbish pads in the picture?

 

Polyurethane foam, open pores, 10 pores per linear inch (PP1 10).
So now I have to hope some random guy at a hobby shop understands what I'm saying when I give him this and doesn't think I'm trying to make a brand new invention...
(or I could search amazon I guess).

The PP1 10 is important because the less resistance to pressure from heatsink pressing down, the better.

 

Kapton tape is fine, but most people use Super 33+ tape. There is no problem with Super 33+ tape at high temps. Just use whatever you feel works best for you.
as far as for sealing in the small area completely between the edge of the GPU core and the huge amount of SMD resistors, I don't know which one seals better.

 

I used to use Kapton but it doesn't cover the bumps that well since it's not elastic enough, and felt like it'd lost stickiness after months. If it lifts up it might not work that well any more

Liquid electrical tape or conformal coating is what I use now

 

could you upload a photo of the same.Also which liquid tape / conformal coating do you use and how do you apply it ?

 

u can basically just use nail polish

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Silicone-Modified-Conformal/dp/B008O9YIV6

You paint it on, its a thin liquid. Difficult to goof up, just don't get it on sockets or on heatsinks. Nail polish does also work, although for sure it goes on thicker. With conformal coating you usually put a few coats on, waiting a while for it to dry in between coats.

 

Hi. Just want to ask how far off the foams are from the die. Also I have seen some people put foam+electrical tape. Would this affect the contact between the die and the heatsink too much?

 

If the foam is polyurethane 10 PPI-20 PPI, it shouldn't at all, as long as it's not too thick (you can always trim it). I believe the correct term may be " reticulated polyurethane foam ".

 

Any specific foam you would recommend?

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/i...5L8p7KHtItu6_1IjwOHVJbZkhaCpz6AMaAkCxEALw_wcB

I saw this but was looking for information regarding operating temperatures.

 

I've decided to go with these two. I'll decide between the two which one I'm more comfortable with.

.125" x 38" x 46" Black 10 PPI Reticulated Polyurethane Foam Sheet
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=105396
.125" x 52" x 66" Charcoal 20 PPI Reticulated Polyurethane Foam Sheet
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=105401

Hopefully, there 20 PPI foam is compressible and has very little resistance. I'm not too comfortable with the 10 PPI as it feels like the pores are quite big for LM spills to pass through.

 

Would a thermal pad work instead of foam?

"Arctic 4237 - Thermal Pad 145 x 145 x 0.5 mm | Thermal Pad for All CPU Coolers | Efficient Thermal Conductivity | Gap Filler | Safe Handling | Easy to Apply"
It does suggest gap filler as a possible use, and 0.5mm should compress enough.

Has anyone tried this?

 

I have never used dams on any of the 7 laptops that have CLU on them, and I've never had a problem.....this is a non issue as long as you aren't using globs of liquid metal.

 

Not advisable.
The height of the core over the substrate is less than 0.5mm, which means it doesn't matter how much the Arctic pads will compress--you are going to be adding resistance to the heatsink! This interferes with contact and could prevent the heatsink from even touching the CPU! Do not do this!

You would be better off using some old thick paste like Ceramique as a barrier than using a pad (as messy as that will be). Better to just go get some very compressible light foam. I'm sure there is a hobby or hardware store somewhere in your area.

 

That's not the point.
Some people carry their laptops around on buses, on their backpacks, bicycles, wherever. It's advisable to be smart and have some extra protection. Just because you never had a problem doesn't mean others won't. I've seen plenty of cases where someone bumped or dropped their backpack and their temps shot up to 100C or LM wound up getting outside of the heatsink. Better to do things the right way instead of trying to live life on the edge in a careless way.

 

Maybe the CLU he used was the old formula that wasn’t as runny. I didn’t have any issues with runoff when using that on previous systems which were moved around fairly often. This was years ago, I didn’t even know about foam dams back then. Nowadays I wouldn’t use the newer, runnier CLU/Conductonaut without protection because when left unsealed, I have seen it get into places that could potentially be problematic.

 

I carried my M18x R2 to and from clas for 3 years with CLU and no foam barrier and never had a problem.

 

I'm aware of that.
I'm also aware of another alienware user having the LM spill outside the heatsink after a hard drop when he was traveling.
You can't base your 1 sample experiences and then extrapolate how every other system in the world will reply based on your sample.
What's the drawback of FREE insurance?
Time? Annoyance?
I'm not telling YOU to use a foam dam. It's your laptop. I'm saying it's silly to NOT take free insurance with no strings attached.

 

I used K5 pro. Better than foam imo.

 

im guessing that depends on the circumstances, i.e. how often u travel and shift the position of the laptop...

but also quite messy i can imagine haha. or is it possible to reuse it?

 

Every day to and from school, between classes, to library and back to home, etc.... quite a bit of travel and 90 degree shifts from laying horizontal on a desk to being stored straight up on its side while in transit in my backpack.

 

Messy?, not really due to it's gummy high viscosity characteristics and it's easy to clean and apply. You can use arcticlean or alcohol. For easy use as a barrier, fill your empty thermal paste container with K5 pro and just apply like a normal thermal paste to the surrounding corner of gPU or cpu ihs (in case of clevo, appliction should be on the CPU load plate, retainer or whatever it's called). Make sure you put enough so that the paste touches the heat-sink.

Since you'll be using a small amount no need to worry of it's re-usability but i'm pretty sure you can use it again.

 

Any updates on your foam?

 

Unfortunately, I didn't push through with the purchase. I returned my unit because of the Area-51m. I'll see if I can apply this on the Area-51m.

 

I LM'd my laptop years ago, had it thrown around in a truck for over a year and after deciding to open it up for the hell of it, never once did the LM ever run off and did all the fearful things this post is suggesting. I suppose if you really dont know what your doing when doing a LM repast and use LM like paste as I have seen people do, then it doesnt hurt to do this, then again, maybe I just got lucky

 

I haven't have time to test this yet. But at first glance I'm pretty sure this is the ticket. It's about .5 mm thick, very porous, and compresses enough that your really can't feel it between your fingers. It's super cheap, and really durable. My only concern would be it's resistance to heat. Im without laptop ATM, so I won't be able to try it for a couple weeks. But it's definitely worth a shot for anyone looking.

https://www.amazon.com/Cramer-Underwrap-Athletic-Headband-Pre-Wrap/dp/B071YV5XZM

https://www.amazon.com/Jaybird-Mais-Foam-Underwrap-Pre-Wrap/dp/B07KMNHL57

I mentioned going to the craft store to my girlfriend to look around, she came up with this in about a minute lol.

 

I'm wondering if anyone here might be able to weigh in on whether running a thin bead of silicone sealant around the die so that it seals against the heat sink might be a good idea. AFAIK it's designed for sealing and is rather easy to peel off, especially if the bead is not massive. Seems like it would be easier to do than finding and cutting foam perhaps?

 

Gluing the heatsink to the mobo is a bad idea, and creating a vacuum as well might be even worse - some thermal pastes create a great deal of suction all on their own (lift chips up, stuck to heatsinks etc.

If you mean using silicone to create a gasket, with vaseline or something to prevent the silicone adhering to one or both surfaces, I think Mr fox did something like that, no idea how it went

The foam isnt tricky to do and should only take a few minutes, all you need is a sharp razor blade and rough measurements of the die.

 

The problem is anything that is thinner than the distance than the die height won't work at all because then it won't work as a dam. And such things also can't be used on LGA chips around the socket or video cards too. Foam or a conformal coating is really the best choice.

 

Has anyone tried aquarium filter sponge?

 

The nice thing about pre wrap is it's ease of use. You could easily stack two or three pieces on one another. It would give you the ability to get a perfect fit, and it would take under a minute to cut and apply it.

 

HI guys

I will be soon doing LM repaste in my GE72VR 7RF.
My cooling looks like this ( https://reho.st/view/self/fa6f5631d170870de3ec84fd80a0ed4bce0ca7e7.jpg / https://reho.st/view/self/5c7e24caaabf402e0a5fae85ceafd31fd86fcde6.jpg)
Those are from ge72VR 6RF thread but cooling looks identical.

I will be going from TGK to TGC on CPU and GPU and while waiting for TGC and few other stuff for some cooling mods I want to ask few things regarding safety in using LM.

My plan is this ( please correct me in some points if you have better solutions)
First I will be taping around CPU and GPU dies with Scotch 33+ to prevent any damage from LM then I want to make barier to prevent moving LM on the mobo and here is my question, I have spare Phobya insulating mat which looks like this ( http://www.angela.pl/galerie/n/noise-absorber-120x120mm_39570.jpg / http://www.angela.pl/galerie/n/noise-absorber-120x120mm_39568.jpg / http://www.angela.pl/galerie/n/noise-absorber-120x120mm_39569.jpg ), of course I want to trim it down to arround 1mm or less so the heatsink will make proper contact with the dies, also this mate has one side glued so it will be easier to hold this to the schotch tape and prevent moving arround. Is this will be any good? I also have some spare K5 PRO paste and my second thought was to use this insted of this mat but here I have some doubts because how to aply this paste properly because I think using this K5 pro to much will end in the paste on the die instead of the LM.
Or I was also think of using the thin rounding from insulating mat and K5pro around the foam barier to make double barier.
I also have another idea of using 0,5mm adhesive tape: I have this ( https://www.aquatuning.co.uk/therma...acool-double-sided-adhesive-pad-100x100x0-5mm )
It is compresible and I think the very thin rounding from this tape could also work as a very good barier. What do you think??

As I will be doing LM repaste for the first time ( but I have did multiple laptops and desktops with traditional repasting so I have some knowlage) I was thinking of making some adjustments to the foam with traditional paste first and runing some cpu and gpu stress test to see if the contact is good. I have leftover of TGK and I want to use this paste for testing pourposes of foam cuts as I know my temps now as I have TGK now on dies so I will know that contact is bad if the temps will sky high.

 

Can you squeeze it to thickness of human hair? I haven't done lm repaste with sponge barrier myself but from this thread I understand that you want very porous sponge which would trap LM drops inside those holes. I found that aquarium filter sponge is quite porous and looks like sponges that people use in this thread. Though I'm not sure how it squeezes and how well it works. Here's sponge I'm talking about:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fish-Tank-...078538?hash=item1cac41d00a:g:a38AAOSwgmJX1CZC

 

15mm for sure not but I think trimed to 1mm should work ok.
But I will visit my local aquarium shop to take a look at the filers sponge.
But I think that you are mistaken about those holes. I think that they don't trap LM inside but only help in squeezing the sponge but maybe I made mistake here