ATTENTION: Federal Crime for Lying about Military Service

Lol SO naive !!!
You think Dell has these discount for students' benefits ?
They have these discounts to build brand loyalty.
These is absolutely no point in giving discounts to elderly or people on benefits. What dell is looking for is future spending power. Think of it as an investment.

FGLRXandYou put it well. It is unethical to take advantage of such deals. I have no problem admitting being unethical, I would have taken the deal had I been in the market.

 

It would be different if it was a deal that was made between Drake and dell to offer their students a coupon or something, BUT IT WASN'T. This was a glitch that made the m1330 much cheaper than dell had intended it to be. This was a mistake that was exploited, not a good deal that was intended specifically Drake University students.
If this was a discount for just soon-to-be Drake students they would have offered it through the school more likely, and required a Student I.D.

 

wearetheborg i understand about brand loyality but at the same time i think that they maybe best to do away with the student discounts for the reasons that i gave this would maybe make the system a bit fairer for all.

 

Oh and enough about sympathizing with dell, they probably ended up in the best possible position given that the mistake is obviously set them back some. I would bet that ~half the people who ordered through this deal were either heavily leaning to a different laptop or were definitely going to buy a different laptop, but instead they got a good dell. And i bet they love it and give it great reviews on other forums, more press for dell. More people to recommend the m1330 in the future.
They didn't even feel the blow from selling a couple hundred laptops at 1/2 price. In one quarter they had a revenue of $14,622 so don't worry about them, they are doing just fine. Their net income was ONLY $759. Oh sorry these figures are in millions btw.

 

But dell doesn't care about fairer, they are targeting their demographic that will be most profitable in the future, and that isn't the poor. Businesses don't target those who can't quite afford their product because they will not be great repeat customers. They want people to buy a lot of notebooks, and many college students will buy one know, and then another in a few years because it is better, and then again later. Those who NEED discounts will buy one now, and then maybe another one after 10+ years.

Sorry for the multiple posts but as soon as i finish one i see another argument that i "have" to refute.

 

I don't know about Drake but a lot of discounts are probably sweeteners to corporate deals. e.g. my employer made a decision a few years ago to make Dells their worldwide supplier, and, presumably as a sweetener, Dell provided an employee discount program. What annoys me is that you are only entitled to this discount on machines for home use if you are in the US. What are the chances that our staff who made this deal with Dell are in a position to benefit whilst many others of us are not.

 

Sirius GTO and friends?

 

Actually it is a federal crime to "use a computer in a scheme to defraud." You could be fined or given a sentence of up to five years if "the offense was committed for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain." Also god help you if you purchase an aggregate of $5,000 or more dollars worth of goods through this method and get caught.

So people who say it is not a crime are flat out wrong. Will you get prosecuted for it? Extremely doubtful...but then again I would have said the same thing about people using Napster 10 years ago. At a bare minimum, fraud is also covered under plenty of civil statutes and Dell could probably sue you for the difference if they felt like it, as well as for punitive damages.

Either way, I'm not a moderator, but I would assume that their rules prevent this site from being a conduit for fraud and illegal activity. I'd imagine most rational people respect the position that the mods have advanced in this and other threads.

Morally? I'm generally not someone who puts a whole lot of stock in "moral" arguments, but I am sure that many legitimate students were screwed out of a nice financial deal that their university officials worked to negotiate for them. In the future, we may see education deals become less lucrative, or completely disappear.

I knew about the Drake deal shortly after Sirius GTO posted it, but purchased at full price because I don't have an affiliation with Drake. Others chose to defraud Dell out of a few hundred dollars and commit a federal crime. Up to you to do what your conscience says.

Also FYI: Just because Dell doesn't catch you, doesn't mean they are "inviting " people to do this. That doesn't make it any less fraudulent. That's a pretty lame argument.

Additionally, your dislike of Dell's deal structure doesn't make it any less fraudulent. Dell can offer deals to anyone that they want. In fact, they can completely refuse sale to anyone that they want. When that argument is advanced it just sounds like a bunch of babies crying.

 

It wasn't a deal that was negotiated, it was a glitch that allowed upgrades at extremely reduced prices AFAIK. Yes i agree it is still wrong, but you are wrong that it screwed Drake students out of a huge deal they deserve for going to drake. Yes it is wrong, it is a crime, but when Dell manipulates prices to save the most money they can, it's going to come back to bite them on their... butts.

 

How was it a glitch? Because it was shut off after 500+ orders? I don't see any evidence that it was a glitch. Most of the orders weren't even canceled.

 

From what i understand, through one of the coupons, not a huge coupon, you were able to upgrade many components and end up with a similar or occasionally lower price than it should have been.
Sirius_GTO obviously would know and could correct me, but this is how i understand it was. I was not in the market for a 13" notebook so i didn't read the specifics, but afaik it was not a super deal but the glitch in upgrades that attracted everyone.

 

There was no coupon. It was a deal for Drake university students that had a base price that was lower than any of the other deals. Doesn't make it a glitch.

 

But again from what i understand it wasn't the base price that made it attractive, it was upgrades that didn't add up. Again i could be wrong, but i would like to hear it from someone that actually did use the "deal".
And thank you for the information that it wasn't a coupon.

 

I dont understand what all the fuss is about.

Personally, I'd drag an elderly old lady into an alley and start knifing her in the face if I thought it would save me 15% or more off a laptop. But thats just me ...

 

and you know for a fact that majority of the orders went through? What, you personally talk to all 500 people that ordered and confirmed with them? Big deal, Dell screwed up and had a good price, some people missed the chance and are all pissy because they couldnt get the chance, so act all morally enlightened by saying what others did was wrong.

 

I think a lot of people are mislead by others posting that it was a glitch. There was no glitch. I've seen incredibly low prices too often to play it off as a glitch.
It was an agreement with Dell and Drake to sell it at a certain price and come with certain features that Drake recommends such as 2GB RAM, 8400GS, and such.

 

I've never done this, but **** yeah it would be worth it. How could it not be worth it if you were willing to do something illegal in the first place to get it? Henry is just a troll. Most likely a disgruntled over paid Drake professor crying that someone took advantage of them. If he cared so much, maybe he would take 5 minutes to find the LAW he's referring to.

 

If you look through the thread on this site you will find the early orders all went through. That's how I know. Do I know with 100% certainty? No. But it seems like a pretty good sample.

Do I think it is morally wrong? Yes. Do I feel the need to preach morals and prove to you I'm morally enlightened? No. Am I pointing out the simple fact that it is illegal and fraudulent? Yes. I don't know if realizing that fraud is illegal and pointing out the federal statute makes me enlightened about anything...at least other than how to use FindLaw and Westlaw.

As far as I care you can do anything illegal you want. I don't care what you do, but I think it is pretty silly that some people are calling this a "glitch" or a "deal" or trying to moralize the situation when it is clearly just a group of people who made fraudulent purchases. When you pretend you have an affiliation that you don't really have to gain access to a special web page set up to sell computers to a specific and limited group of individuals that is fraud.

 

Well it's just a deal that Dell provided and Drake agreed to do so, so it's a conspiracy and we should take advantage of it because we can, regardless it being fraudulent and dishonest about who you really are for the matter, all that tends not to matter because WE ARE THE POOR MISUSED CUSTOMERS.

So, in the end it's legal to do so because I think it is.

 

Awww wahhh, honestly, did the people who order sit there and take advantage of you personally, is the fact that Dell just made a lot of money off people purchasing their notebooks actually affecting you? If Dell really even gave a crap about the situation they'd fix the Dell University and make it a little more difficult to obtain the savings.
I'm sure if you had an opportunity like that, you'd jump on it and would'nt be calling it fraud at all.
Honestly, everyone here could be considered a prospective student if they even considered going to Drake.
Just because a few people got some cash off their laptops and others didn't all of a sudden everyone is on a crusade to destroy fraud in the country.....

 

For those of you using the argument: "since it is possible to expliot Dell University, it is Dell's fault for not fixing it" is totally outrageous. Have you ever considered if Dell University required a whole lot of protection such as extensive vertification, it will turn legit and REAL students off of the site because it is a big hassle? That is just an idea. So perhaps if there is extensive vertification, REAL students will have a harder time ordering, and thus frustrating them???

It is fraud. No matter how you argue this, it is FRAUD, and fraud is ILLEGAL!

 

If it is fraud, would you finally let this thread go to rest?

From what I've seen, this thread has given no progress as to the betterment of the actual category involve, ie. Dell.

This debate has gone on long enough and Dell has already fixed most, if not all, pricing errors on the Dell XPS m1330. So y not let this topic go to rest now?
What has been done is done.

There's no more need to argue this any further, everything else will be done according to Dell's discretion.

 

Why do you insist on calling it a "pricing error"? Do you work for Dell, or have you personally called Dell up to inquire into this matter? I don't think so...

 

Thank you for correcting me, and my apologies TopSpin14m. This does make it worse in my opinion. Yes it was always fraud, and yes it was always illegal, and i have always agreed to that, but that doesn't mean everyone sees it that way.
Imo, this is poor planning on the part of Dell/Drake, if they wanted to really protect the offer they should have had an email sent to all the drake students and offered it on campus or at orientation. Of course it is fraud, and of course it is illegal, and of course it is going to happen. I have heard of multiple schools offering these kinds of deals in a school bookstore, i believe one was UCLA.
Just because something is "illegal" doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Everyone knew they would not get caught and that is why it was exploited. Most people don't care that it is morally wrong, and most view it as "illegal*" because they know they will never be prosecuted.
Again, it is not right, it is not moral, and it is not legal, and i guarantee that if they have that deal again it will be exploited even faster than last time.

 

Or even read sirius_gto's post, he is a student at drake and used it, and confirms that it was indeed a special deal for drake students, not a glitch or error.

Sorry for the double post.

 

Why allow them to never be prosecuted? Why doesn't this site turn over IP address of those that say they have ordered illegally, to Dell, so they may take the necessary actions they chose?

 

Because dell doesn't care, the only reason they would prosecute would be because they were under severe pressure. They ended up with the same result as they would have even if the deal was not exploited. Their site had been that way since far before the Drake deal i would imagine, and that will probably be their response if Drake is angry. Dell will not prosecute, imo, because their quarterly revenue is something like $7,000,000,000.

Sorry that stat is wrong, their quarterly revenue is actually ~$14,000,000,000, and their net income is ~750,000,000.

 

Maybe, but if they get the info beforehand, maybe they can cancel orders before they shipped??? I don't know, just asking...

 

I understand what you're saying, but from my experiences on their site and from observing their marketing schemes, i feel that they only want their money. They target university students with generic deals to hook them in, and to build brand loyalty. They don't care if a few hundred people get great deals because the way their site is set up they have already screwed another thousand people. They just want their money and will only interfere in this situation if they feel that they will lose a substantial amount of business because of it.

I could be wrong, and i wouldn't mind if i am, i do believe it was wrong to do what those people did, and it would probably help our society to be a little firmer with those kinds of laws.

 

henryman, i was just wondering have you downloaded any mp3s off the internet? (not itunes, i mean the free downloads)

i myself used EPP but i'm qualified for it.

 

Honestly, if it bothers you that much, start a rally and parade down the street with signs that say "Screw discounts and sales!" and convince people they should not attempt to find the best deal that is available for them to get.

If you really want to talk about morality and whats good, wrong, bad, or whatever, then I'm afraid you have a lot more to be disappointed in than some people who took the time to take advantage of a deal.

It's like you're walking down the side of the street and you just finished your drink and need a trash can to throw away your container because you don't want to litter. But you don't see one for a very long time and get tired of holding it and toss it onto the street. Could you have waited? Yes. Do you want to wait? Not really. Is littering bad? Sorta... but who cares? Do people do it anyway? Yep. Does a few people trying to make you feel bad about it make any difference at all? Nope.

 

"Pointing at another wrong" is a fallacy. Please attempt a valid/intelligent argument, next time?

 

I love to take advantage of discounts. Screw morality. I'm gonna steal all your discounts and you can't stop me. Bwahaha!!

 

I hope no-one minds if I add my 2p to this thread.

I'm in the UK so I'm not that familiar with the Drake promotion, but it seems as though they made the discount available both to students and to "prospective" students - which would include absolutely everyone. To me, this is enough of a "loophole" to prevent taking advantage of it being termed "fraud" - instead, it's just people trying to get the laptop they want at the best price, and sharing information so that other people can get good deals too.

We're not talking about getting free laptops, after all, and Dell probably still make a profit even out of the most heavily-discounted laptops. Even if they did occasionally make a loss on a few hundred laptops here and there, they are making enough more than enough profit elsewhere to absorb the losses. Plus, every sale is a new Dell customer - a very valuable commodity indeed.

Ultimately, Dell prices are crazy - you can find a different price for an identical system by visiting the site on a different day, going through a different site, speaking to a different rep, and so on. In this culture, canny shoppers will always go looking for the best deal. Yes, sometimes it will feel unfair that some people pay more than others, but this is just the strange way that Dell operates. Someone might get the same laptop as me cheaper because they are a better haggler, someone else might get it cheaper because of something like the Drake offer. That's just the way things are, and I'm fine with it - I'm happy with my laptop and the price I paid for it. Dell are obviously perfectly content with situation, and if you don't like their peculiar pricing system, then there are lots of other companies to choose from.

Personally, I don't think that just because something is illegal, it is morally wrong. (And, likewise, something can still be morally wrong even if it isn't illegal.) I think that the way to judge the severity of a crime is to see if people are or could be hurt by it, and how much is hurts them or could hurt them. So, personally, I just can't define getting a discount by going through a university or military website, or taking advantage of whatever offer or glitch or loophole that might be around, as a "crime". It might be "fraud" in a technical sense, but it just doesn't feel "wrong". Though even if it did feel "wrong" to me, I would never impose my sense of morality upon anyone else or judge them because they didn't agree with me about this issue.

That's not to say that I don't think morals or ethics apply at all in the consumer sphere - for example, I would never buy from a company that I knew used sweatshops, as here, people are being hurt, and I would feel that I was participating in that exploitation. (Sorry if this is a bit off-topic.)

What I have found most worrying in this thread, Henry, is that you have used the word "sickening" to describe how you feel about people buying discounted laptops. I would suggest, with all due respect, that you think about this very carefully.

 

No I do not work for Dell, and I am unsure as to whether this was an error or not.
I agree with you that it was not a pricing error.
Dell tends to create an elaborate pricing scheme whereby there are over several difference prices you can obtain from a notebook through their website. Some are outrageously hefty in prices and some are fairly cheap deals.

Now what's the purpose of that anyhow?
Isn't it also ethically wrong to over-charge an honest person on a notebook which would cost merely $1,200 with coupons, but rather forces them to pay a hefty $2000 instead?

As stated by magenta, Dell has arranged this system so that even if there are minor losses, there will always be further gains from other customers.

Firstly, that's a huge violation of privacy policies. This site cannot voluntarily turn over the IP addresses of those who claimed to have ordered through illegal use of EPP without the full consent of the owner.

In fact, in order to obtain such vital information, I believe only the FBI has such power as to perform investigations without the consent. Not even Dell would have been able to obtain such information without taking on a full investigation, which would cost time, effort and money to prosecute every 500+ of those who have exploited.

Now did Dell request for such vital information? No, I highly doubt they have taken such drastic actions.

If they have not requested for such and taking such immediate actions would only lead to the downfall of the site itself. What you are asking there is very unreasonable.

Also, claims does not legally prove that the person actually bought the product through illegal EPP usage. One can merely claim to have used it to encourage such usage, but you wouldn't be for sure.

Again, even if the action is wrong and illegal to do. You cannot take drastic actions without full consent of Dell. If Dell was so serious about the matter as you are, then Dell would have taken legal action against such people already and have began to cancel all orders.

My personal view is that Dell will not take such drastic measures because it will damage the name of the company. Even if there were 500+ orders taken from such EPP, cancellation of all 500 of them would severely tarnish Dell's name and reputation. It would also discourage potential customers.

 

This guy is still going?

Look at this dudes posts...

http://forums.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=2113654&postcount=18

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=135913

There is not need to continually make new threads and troll the forum in the attempts of being a zealot for Dell.

 

Are Henry's topics too close to home for some?

Lying about being a student to get that Dell discount is nothing new on this forum - hell people ask how to do it!

 

Let's all stop pointing fingers and let each of us do as they wish.

 

Ok buddy, you really need to shut up with that crap. If you want to do something then put the same effort into reporting our IPs that you do into whining. Maybe you'll get somewhere.

 

man those are some nice dell laptops you have sirius. collector?

 

Yes, everyone is a sinner. Geez Henry, the point you are arguing is so abstract. Is this your way of bettering society? It's not like people counterfeited money to buy their computers.

Dell has had their fair share of schemes. Remember $299 computers ads. Well, what do you think the first thing a rep/CSR says when a customer asks for the $299 computer they saw advertised. They're going to recommend a better computer if they want to do anything remotely useful. Last year, just in 2006, I had customers asking me for those type of computers but in reality, they would be misled, and misinformed thinking they could do all the fancy things they wanted like burning CDs with just the basic $299 PC. I would do them a disservice by not telling them what a piece of garbage that $299 PC was. So in this context, Dell was committing fraud by engaging in bait and switch. But I'm sure there was a loophole so Dell continued business, happy as a clam, and making what $750,000,000 in net profit? What kind of trickery is that?

I was straight up with the CSR on the phone. I said I don't go to Drake, but I go to a school in CA [which I do] and he wasn't surprised, he didn't tell me my order wouldnt go through just because I didn't go to Drake. He really didn't give a hoot. It was advertised to Drake, but is anyone here for sure it was only exclusive to Drake? I mean, I was told all the Drake orders were getting cancelled, but they weren't. WHY? If it was wrong, why didn't they cancel them?

 

...lying about your status as a student is one thing; lying about your status in the military is another.

So in my opinion, it is disrespectful to lie about your military service for a $100 discount from Dell. Much more so then lying about your 'pre-student' or whatever status at Drake.

 

I will give one last warning before closing this thread:

Play nice. No personal attacks, offensive posts or trolling.

 

I agree 100% with Magenta - she (?) is more eloquent than most of us and was able to clearly say what the majority of us intended to say ! Btw, as a former pschology major, I find it interesting that Henry was "sickened" by it as he was "observing" and "standing by" during the Drake "incident". Can it be that maybe, just maybe, there's a part of him that is ANGRY at HIMSELF for not taking advantage of such a great deal? He sounds like a SORE SHOPPER as most moral people would have moved on by now.....

 

I don't mind.

Not flaming here at all, but I don't know what different words mean in UK English. In America, prospective means "likely to come about" and in the university system, it is generally understood that a prospective student is one who has been admitted and is planning to attend (but is not yet a full time student). Dell is using the word prospective to mean students who are preparing to attend, but might not yet have an email address. Technically this allows people to order with little to no verification, and this is what people are exploiting.

The term definitely does not mean absolutely everyone. Even with the most expanded definition there is no way that someone who didn't even apply to Drake can say that they are reasonably likely to become a Drake student. In fact I bet many of the people who bought these laptops are 40 year olds with full time jobs who have absolutely no intention of ever going back to school. It's clearly fraudulent. Doesn't mean people won't still exploit it though.

You are only examining whether Dell gets hurt by this. What about the Drake students (not to mention students at other universities) who never even got the opportunity to see this deal because it hit the net and sold out so quickly. The deal is for THEM not YOU. Dell organized the deal because they are students, most of whom have little to no income. The idea is to build brand loyalty. People screwed a lot of students, not only at Drake, but at the other universities who had deals pulled.

And before people say that I am complaining because I didn't get the deal...I got an EXTREMELY good deal through my company the day the Drake deal was posted here. I passed on the Drake deal because I didn't want to engage in a fraudulent purchase. Personally, I really wasn't effected by this at all. I just think it's wrong to try to argue that you have some moral high ground when you are not only engaging in illegal fraud but also hurting university students around the country. It's just silly.

Just say look -- I'm willing to screw a bunch of kids out of a good deal so I can personally save a couple hundred dollars. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but don't act like you are some white price saving knight attacking evil Dell. The problem is that you should be accountable for your actions and stop trying to justify everything.

Personally I'm just sick of the 'everyone is doing it'/socialist anti-business mentality in America where everyone just thinks they don't have to follow the law when it comes to corporate and consumer fraud. It's ridiculous.

P.S. just to be clear by 'you' I don't mean YOU magenta...I just mean everyone in general who went for the Drake deal and is not a Drake student/is trying to come up with lame arguments to justify their actions.

 

People are gonna do this no matter how immoral it is. If it doesn't directly involve me strapping up some little kid to be tortured to death for entertainment and getting money that way, no one will really care. It's really not my problem who has to go through what in order for me to get this deal. Call me selfish, but hey thats life and how things work. When you buy a pair of shoes, does it come with a label that says "Warning!! Many little children had to work very hard in sweatshops for months to create you this high quality shoe." Ok whatever.

Normally, I appreciate it when people stand up for their beliefs or whatever. But thats like telling me not to buy shoes from the dude down the street thats selling it for 30% cheaper than you, for some random unimportant issue to me that doesn't effect me at all. Do I honestly give a crap someone else has to suffer for me? Sucks for them then! I know no one would give a crap if my ass was on the line, why the hell should I care?

Don't be bitter you didn't get the better deal. Just be faster next time. You can be happy with your righteousness and morals, and we'll be happy with our big fat discount and being evil little rascals. I'm a lot happier this way anyways! Cheers to stealing big fat discounts!!

 

Topspin14m, i don't think you, me, or anybody on this board can really grasp the reality of what happened to the Drake deal. A lot of people think that Dell made a mistake because the thing about the Drake deal is that all the upgrades are cheaper than they should be. Dell then pulled back and said that they filled a quota. IF TRUE, why did they cancel the orders that were placed. If they cancelled it because Dell believed there was fraud, they will just work something out with Drake, maybe something more secretive and exclusive because that's the smart thing to do. If you can't get the underlying theme of what i'm arguing is that it is DELL's fault this got blown out of proportion. so did drake actually lose a deal? they lost only time. if I'm clear on my sources, Dell promises that they will work something out with Drake at a later time.

Big words. I don't really know where to begin with your statement. Perhaps you should realize that socialism, anti-business, America, and "corporate and consumer fraud" have nothing to do with each other. putting them in the same statement... It's ridiculous. Fraud is such a nasty word to use for people who aren't "profiting" off this exchange, they're just buying Dell laptops for cheaper. again, nobody is profiting here but Dell, we aren't gaining something that we didn't have before, we are just spending less than we have to.

and...

i don't think you would see anybody on this topic justifying their actions, just defending them and you'll realize nobody is taking the condescending moral high ground other than you. Welcome to a Machiavellian world.

 

I agree that prospective student opens the door to anyone.

 

https://tips.fbi.gov/

Now stop making threads...

 

Haha best post in the thread.