Where do I get a Kill A Watt meter? I think we need to get the testing in to high gear and proper. If there is still a problem with this system after the new bios we need to document it and point it out. At this point they have admitted publicly that there is a problem, now they need to make sure it is fixed. Its in writing!
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Heya DeeX, I just ordered an NZ equivalent of the kill a watt meter so I'll soon be able to help with testing.
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Could someone please tell me if I will still encounter problems (i.e. not enough power from the supplied PSU) if I manage to convince Dell to swap my 260m for a 5850.
I have an i7 920 cpu and don't want to solve one problem to encounter another. Does this issue just concern the i7 940 processor and 5870 / 5850 combination, is it caused from overclocking (because I definitely won't be overclocking my system) or will I also have problems to deal with?
i7 920m
4gb RAM
260m (looking to swap to 5850)
Thanks in advance. -
electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
@ohdae5u
It's quads + 260M and even 5850's depending on configuration.
It is a power consumption issue. Dell issued 150w PSUs and designed their BIOS to throttle the GPU or CPU (or both) to make sure the draw complies with the PSU provided.
These issues manifest even at stock clocks and stock configurations.
The optimal, "fail" config is the 260M + 920xm/940xm since it consumes the most power. 920xm/940xm + 5850 will still encounter some throttling. Just not as severe.
Throttlestop+Rivatuner definitely help but it is up to Dell to address the problem properly which has been outlined and backed up with copious amounts of evidence.
I've documented Kill-A-Watt readings as high as 193w stress testing my M15x under Furmark + Prime95 8-thread max heat with Rivatuner and Throttlestop enabled (which even shocked me. I did a triple take).
The only real solution, which is painfully obvious and has been for months now with an ever growing list of both anecdotal and scientific evidence, is for Dell to issue a non-restrictive BIOS that doesn't throttle the GPU or CPU and then either:
A: Handle PSU upgrades (A PA-7E 210w PSU should be sufficient) on a case by case basis due to some systems being able to operate fine with a 150w PSU (IE 240M+i3/i5, 5730+i3/i5, maybe even 5850+i3/i5 or 260M+i3/i5)
B: Recall the 150w PSUs and blanket issue 210w PSUs to all users (Highly unlikely).
As noted earlier, a BIOS upgrade that relaxes the restrictive power tables along with case by case PSU upgrades is not without precedence. Dell had to do the same thing with the Dell Studio 1747 and Studio XPS 1645 upgrading their PSUs from 90w to 130w.
This situation has been dragging on and growing worse since Winter 2009.
Situations like this really do make you realize why class action lawsuits happen and why companies get bombarded with complaints to the BBB and similar ilk. Word of mouth is a powerful vice. Usually by the time they realize their folly, the damage has been done on many levels.
Then they look surprised when hardcore gamers go back to their roots and head home: ORIGIN PCs - Custom Built Gaming Desktops and Laptops
((Even though these are Clevo's all purdy'd up.))
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Dell will quickly answer our demand if we hit them in the soft spot. -
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Hell, I'd be happy with even if I had to pay for the new PSU my self, as long as they supply a BIOS version that isn't locked at 150W.
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electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
That sounds like a good idea. We could always point them to this massive thread. And yeah, the 210w PSUs are on ebay for ~$48 here:
New Dell Precision M6400 AC Adapter Power Supply PA-7E - eBay (item 160461853825 end time Sep-26-10 16:33:52 PDT)
240w PSUs are a bit more expensive at $132.90 here:
New Dell Ac Adapter Precision M6400 Alienware M17x M15x - eBay (item 370419505234 end time Sep-11-10 12:38:56 PDT) -
Isn't the A08 BIOS expected to fix throttling though? I really hope it does, because when I get my XM it'll probably throttle like hell knowing my luck... A08 should be out/tested by the time I get it though. Don't really wanna spend even more money after shelling out enough for the laptop already...
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A08 may help, but the underline problem is the psu, it doesn't have enough power to support both the gpu and cpu going full throttle.
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i have but the bios is still limiting the power draw to 150 watts. i get no improvement from regular psu.
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I'd be more than willing to shell out for a stronger adapter if the BIOS supported full power and overclocking abilities. IMO it would be a solid marketing tactic, to get people to pay for a more expensive power supply if they knew it unlocked some overclocking abilities. -
electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
I'm going to go ahead and pony up the $48 for a 210w PSU so I can run some more tests, see if with Riva+Throttlestop if GPU/CPU throttling is lessened and see where this thing taps out pull wise.
Plus I don't want to have my 150w PSU give up the ghost. I'm impressed it didn't yank its own cord, flip me the proverbial bird and quit after hitting 193w on KaW. -
7 days ago I purchased this notebook from local retail store. I was so pumped up until I started playing games with it..
My system:
i7-720, GTX260m, 6GB ram, 500 SATA, Win7 64 bit ultimate...
Starcraft2 - Medium -> FPS = 6-24 ???????
I tried upgrading to the latest nividia driver given from AW support/download section and no difference were found.
I followed the instructions provided in this thread and it seems that my GPU wouldn't accept the 500/850/1250 settings no matter how many times I apply/save/reboot my system. Instead, the underclocked settings was shown(300 something/700 something/ 300 something) by CPUZ(latest version).
I double checked with GPUZ and it showed 500/850/1250..
Then I opened up rivatuner once again, the settings was showing the same numbers from CPUZ..
I am so confused ...x999999
PS. I tried both the local admin and my own account(also admin right). It's wierd that every time I opened up Rivatuner, it said the program couldn't find RiverTuner64.sys and asked me to disable Driver Signing thing. I had to Press F2 -> F8 -> Disable Driver signing before loading into Win 7 on every reboot or else the disable driver signing message would have come back. -
Stealth mode? AC adapter plugged in?
'Cause I play SC2 on the highest settings at max res, and get 30+ at all times. -
if that fails, try finding DSEO on google, should be the first link.
also about the speeds not sticking
* make sure high performance profile is selected
* toggle stealth mode till the spedo icon is OFF
* follow joker's configuration of rivatuner on the first page of this post -
AC adapter plugged in.
On the side, I also disable my bluetooth and wireless adapter as well .. -
I followed the configuration of rivatuner as well ... -
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electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
As a previous user noted, using Rivatuner+Throttlestop causes his PSU to trip/fail under heavy load.
As I stated earlier, Furmark+Prime95 8-thread had my Kill-A-Watt Meter peaking at 193w and my PSU smokin hot.
Outside of not wanting my 150w PSU to melt down, I also want to make sure the system is getting adequate power with Rivatuner+Throttlestop.
At worst, it continues to run as is with Rivatuner+Throttlestop but isn't overtaxing my poor 150w PSU
At best, with adequate power being provided via Throttlestop+Rivatuner, less throttling may be experienced.
Either way, if/when the day comes that Dell does the right thing and the system actually is running AS INTENDED, certain systems, under heavy load will require a better PSU as 150w isn't cutting it.
There's a reason why Dell supplies a 210w PSU as standard with the Dell Precision M6500. Go try running a 150w PSU under load w/ a Dell M6500 using a M7840 (5870 equivalent) +Extreme chip and tell me how that works out for you.......go ahead.....I'll wait. -
We need this type of data, from a couple peeps. I will pass along all of this to the people I have been dealing with in testing. This is good stuff. -
However, the throttlestop program was ok and remained enabled at each windows startup.. But this wouldn't help when my GPU behaved like this.. -
hmmm, i now clearly remember why i snapped and replaced the 260m.
perhaps a powerdrain might help?
i remember if the clocks are around the 300/700/300 thing, it was usually an issue with one of the "power save" features not working properly.
did you manage to install the signed drivers for rivatuner?
*edit*
i snapped... not the card... -
Try turning stealth mode on then off, then set your clocks.
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Should I do this under normal win7 mode or under test mode + disable driver signing mode?
Actually, I am thinking of doing a system restore back to the first or second day I received this notebook. -
not a bad idea
also i always run in test mode cause i hate the driver signing thingy.
dseo lets you do this (driver signature enforcement overrider) - google it, first link, oh it also lets you remove the watermarking (i used method 1 after downloading the tool it specifies)
but yeah a full system restore might just do the trick. usually just toggling stealth and power profiles makes it "unstuck" for me.
but by system restore i meant using the windows disk and reinstall... hmm not sure about restore points.... -
->
"Cannot load Riva Tuner64.sys driver. Please ensure that this file exists in Riva Tuner's folder and your account has admin rights."
I usually clicked ok then another warning poped up:
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"Driver Signing enforcement must be disabled in order to start Riva Tuner under Vista x64. Do you want to disable driver signing enforcement right now and reboot the system to apply the changes?"
The system rebooted but nothing was changed or applied when it returned to windows and I kept getting the same warnings when opening Rivatuner.
If I by-passed it, the rivatuner app. did open up but the section under Driver Settings on the Main tab would be dimmed and no forceware detected.
This is getting crazy and as 1 problem brings out another problem and goes on and on ......
Conclusion:
Should I try "MSI AFTERBURNER" instead? I heard it's made by the same author. -
Thats now much? Well, for me it is, I run a 10W (self built) file server at home. -
electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
I suspect with the 210w PSU the reading will drop due to better efficiency but that adds to the need for a better PSU with some configs.
I know in their heart Dell wants to do the right thing
Can't believe I'm going down this road again 9 months later....
To Dell/Alienware CSRs and Engineers lurking:
Q: How does Dell appease and thrill their M15x users?
A: Issue a non-restrictive BIOS that allows the GPU and CPU in your, "top of the line" 15" gaming laptop to run unrestricted and issue 210W PSUs upon request free of charge based on configuration issued.Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015 -
yeah it's almost the same app. you may need to use dseo's option to manually sign the file or something, i can't remember what it was. i'm pretty sure if you downloaded it from guru3d you get a 7zip self extracter, inside are 2 files, the installer and a second file which you can run after installing rivatuner which installs 64bit signed drivers.
msi afterburner may work, i use it for the OSD which i find a little better than rivatuner's. you may need a workaround to get it to change clocks though, give it a shot. -
Chances of this happening are as good as me winning the lotto.Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015 -
The Revelator Notebook Prophet
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you feeling lucky joker?
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I am looking everywhere to solve this problem.
I have an ATI 5850 in my M15x. I used to have 720qm but now I switched to 920xm. I have got much better scores on WEI and 3DMark06 but when I game, I am now getting around 22-30FPS in all my games compared to 34-45 FPS I used to get on the same games. I am using throttle stop with Clock modulation and chipset modulation set to 100% and Multiplier set to 16 with throttlestop turned on. But no effect on games. My CPU temps seem to be in the 60s with the game running. Could anyone help me out on this. -
electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
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Im Tired Of All This Throttlinggg... Goddammit.
My slow 720 with my 5870m doesn't throttle though... but i hope byt the time i decide to upgrade to a 940, Dell gets their crap together.
All it takes is for them to allow the bios to use the 210watt power adapters, and for users to then request for one (or even pay for one.). And all would be well. But nooooooooooo -
hahaha..one weird thing happen today..i call dell technical support on malaysia site..she said disable turbo mode in BIOS can solve frame drop during game which we were know that's are throttling problem..i pushed them to give me exchange the card or just pay for technical fees..still on hold right know..hope dell will do the exchange for free..
edit:
they want me to sent my computer technical canter for them to investigate the problem..i think i want make a wallpaper about throttling problem, put the evidence together on the wallpaper..gpu z graph, prime.. then when they turn on the computer, they will see the wallpaper about my throttling problem.. -
Anyway, what I did was to follow all advices from you experts:
- Uninstalled riva tuner
- Downloaded the version from softmedia
- Reinstall after a clean reboot + driver signing disabled in GPO.
- Accepted update during riva tuner installation
- No installation error. No rivatuner64.sys could not be found error no more.
- Updated the GPU driver from dell's site.
Now on each reboot, my GPU does being adjusted to the clock that I want (something like 580/1400/1000).
However, when I checked my GPU temp and it only reached to 60 something, so I tried tweaking up to 620/1510/1000. Once I applied it, and clicked ok, nothing ran wrong until a minute later, the screen flashed few times, and a warning popped up at bottom right corner saying something like "the graphic driver corrupted or something and it recovered from it.. (I don't remember as it only appeared once)". I immediately down clocked back to the earlier settings and the flashes stopped.
What is this? overheat? or it had already reached the limit under stock voltage ? -
He also asked me to run the AW diagose program and let them remote my system to check.
I banged up my office phone and hung up. Later that day, I received a quotation from dell by email on the 4 yrs warranty extension..
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They actually offered me the same solution, but I rejected it as this totally beats the point of the NBD warranty. If they cannot come up with a solution, they need at least offer you a refund -
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I phoned Dell on Saturday to ask them about replacing my 260m for a 5850 given the throttling problem. I was asked to call back during Monday - Friday as there was no supervisor available on weekends to authorise a decision. I found this ridiculous given the premium warranty support I took out.
Directly after the call, I emailed 2 representatives with whom I'd had previous correspondence with from a prior issue (the restarting problem when shutting down).
I got a call today where I explained the issue in great detail, the guy I spoke to told me he would need to speak to a supervisor (deja vu) and research whether my m15x is compatible with the 5850!
I was told that I will get a call Thursday to tell me the outcome. In order to prepare for their response could someone please confirm the following:-
Am I correct in thinking that even if I manage to get Dell to replace my 260m with a 5850 and provide me with a 210w PSU, that I'm still at the mercy of waiting for a change to the bios firmware to support a 210w PSU so that I can run the laptop as designed without suffering from any throttling?
Does anyone know if the expected bios update (A08) will support a 210w PSU?
i7 920
4GB RAM
260m
Windows 7 x64
PS Has Dell dropped the i7 920 for new M15X's as it's no longer listed on their website.
Should I assume my processor is a standard 920 and not a 920XM? (bought it back in October 2009). -
Unfortunately you still need a bios update to make full use of the upped power supply. No idea if A08 will support that :?
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they don't give me any date for dell to pick up my computer same as quotation whether i got discount for swapping or need to pay full..
why need to swipe (format right) hdd?? if they call back i will said i change my mind don't want to sending in.. -
electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist
Ah, ok. I knew someone was throttling somewhere with an extreme and 5850.
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That is exactly what happened to me. They wanted me to send the laptop in, and I did not agree on that as it would be breaching their part of the contract. They have their own machines to test with and this throttling issue isnt an isolated case.
Well, I have no idea where Dell has a service centre, but I wouldnt be surprised if it was in India or in another low wage country. Last thing you want is for some Indian fellow getting hold of your data (e.g. email account data). That is also the reason why I always use a separate HDD then the one my laptops come in. If I have to send it in, I put in the old (unused) one to send the laptop in. -
your last paragraph make me scared of sending in..i don't want my data being access like that.. -
^^ backup your data to an external drive, reinstall the system by using the windows disk provided by alienware (format the drive when in the windows setup). download the drivers from the net (don't use resource disk)
check that throttling issue is still there
send it in.
i know it's a lot of work, but that way they can't complain about it being a software issue if you did a full reinstall and using latest (dell) drivers. -
Side topic:
will you choose a 2 or 4 yrs warranty extension on this notebook today?
assume $70US a yr.
AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.
Discussion in 'Alienware M15x' started by 5150Joker, Dec 2, 2009.