AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

I'm downloading the new drivers right now, gonna give 'em a test.

 

the latest drivers on the site were unstable for me causing crashes... (with the 260m that is)

 

I just installed them. I had to reinstall NVIDIA system tools to get my precious OC'ing back, but all seems well. Still throttles in Furmark, but I haven't tried any games yet.

 

Just played some SC2, it seems stable enough. And better performance too

You just gotta make sure you install the driver's right.

Obviously you'll need to download the new drivers first. After that...

1) Download Driver Sweeper here. Install it.

2) Go into the "Uninstall Programs" area of the control panel. Uninstall the NVIDIA drivers.

3) Reboot into safe mode. Run driver sweeper and delete all traces of the NVIDIA drivers. Reboot into normal windows.

4) Install the new drivers. Then just reboot one more time and you're all good

 

Is that just Furmark by itself?

 

I had those installed on a clean system and they were crashing games like mafia 2 with red screens

 

That's odd Well, I'll report back if I have any problems, but it's smooth sailing for me so far.

Yeah, I was just running Furmark with GPU-Z open.

 

I just installed the Dell video drivers for the 260 and now I can't access the "system settings" tab in Rivatuner to allow me to stop the throttling. Any suggestions?

 

Not sure, I use NVIDIA system tools. Never had much luck with RivaTuner.

 

my jaw dropped, not just because they have a bios with the ability to overclock.... but because the engineers were not even using the latest bios which *in theory* should FIX bugs (in our case however it seems to have developed them)

 

no wonder they have such a hard time reproducing every common issue >_>

 

Alienware M15x (i7-940xm / 260M / 900P / A07)

100% Dell issued. MX-3'd.

No overclocking on GPU or CPU

Win7 Ultimate

Throttlestop 2.81
Rivatuner 2.24c
Newest (258.xx) Nvidia reference drivers

No Throttlestop / Riva:

Prime95 Only 2-thread max heat = 3.33 x 2 rock solid
Furmark Only = Throttling
Furmark + Prime95 = Throttling (CPU and GPU)

Riva to lock in Factory Clocks / No Throttlestop :

Prime95 Only 2-thread max heat = 3.33 x 2 rock solid
Furmark Only = No Throttling
Furmark + Prime95 2-thread max heat = GPU No Throttling. CPU Throttles down to 930mhz(!)

Riva and Throttlestop to lock in GPU/CPU:

Prime95 Only 2-thread max heat = 3.33 x 2 rock solid
Furmark Only = No Throttling
Furmark + Prime95 2-thread max heat = No GPU or CPU Throttling
Furmark + Prime95 8-thread max heat = No GPU or CPU Throttling. CPU = ~2500mhz (Multi = 18.62 - 18.79)


Kill-A-Watt readings (Riva/Throttle enabled):

No stress testing = 58-61w at desktop
Furmark Only = 134w
Prime95 8-thread = 132-142w
Prime95 2-thread + Furmark = 174-181w
Prime95 8-thread + Furmark = 185-193w

Rivatuner rocks. It really dials in the clocks and holds 'em.
Throttlestop, again, is just da bomb.
5 min into the 8-thread + furmark stress test my 150w adapter was pretty scorchin and I could smell the heat from it.

I'm real curious as to what A08 is going to do....

 

i have similar results for wattage, but my wattrage ratings only went to 170w, but thats most likely because I used the 240W which doesnt get that hot and therefore doesnt loose too muvh Watts to heat

 

I found my adapter went to ~170 when I didn't have throttlestop enabled, 8-thread (max heat), and furmark running. As soon as I enabled throttlestop, boom, up it went.

And yeah, the 150w does get rather toasty, yowza.

I'll, "test" it out later gaming with SC2 and EVE.

 

your 150w didn't shut itself off?
mine tends to shut off a little over 160ish

 

Nope, it stayed strong but it gets really toasty. Nothing like the smell of hot electronics....mmmmm.

I just finished running the 8-thread max heat + Furmark with Throttlestop (Clock Mod, Chipset mod, Multiplier @ 17, EIST) and Riva set to default clocks again for a few minutes and Kill-A-Watt is definitely registering ~185-192 with those settings. GPU clocks stay locked rock solid, and CPU settles at ~18.70 multi for ~2450-2500mhz frequency.

Riva is nice because once it is set, it just purrs along in the background and you almost forget about it. Throttlestop is a double click away and your M15x is ready to rock and roll. Dell does need to do something about it, but all the groundwork by UncleWebb, 5150Joker and Riva really does provide a wicked work around.

I think sending out 180w-210w adapters along with a proper bios is the right thing to do.

 

This is the thing we need on A08..

 

I just spoke to alienware technical support (UK) , and according to the agent that i spoke to, the only fix that they are aware of is the throttlestop/ rivatuner fix.

Also, chris mentioned that the only fix is to replace the gtx 260m with an ati 5850, so it looks like they arent communicating internally on an updated bios, A08.

Im a bit skeptical that the new bios will fix these issues. Dell have known about the issue since last year, and they know what the problem is but havent managed to find a feasable solution. Personally, i think that they need to recall all of the gtx260m's and replace them, however they wont want to spend the money on this or face the critisism from the press again.

Im not going to build my hopes up seeing as were yet to see any solid evidence that there will be a permanent fix to the throttling in the next bios revision, unless i have missed something? Dell have been telling people since last year on forums that a fix is coming....

 

I just installed the new gfx card drivers from Dell's website for the 260m, I go to shut down and the bloody bug's back that prevents me from shutting down the laptop.

Reverted to the latest Nvidia drivers and the laptop shuts down properly. What a waste of time. I'll be phoning Dell tomorrow...

 

Did you follow all proper driver install steps?

Check my post two pages ago.

 

Yeah I jumped through all the annoying hoops and the shutdown bug re-emerged its ugly head.

I'm curious why you suggest going to all the hassle of the steps you suggest when Nvidia suggest just installing over the top. If a bug isn't present, following any sequence of steps won't introduce a bug unless the driver is faulty in the first place, what difference would it make following the suggested steps, the driver is either buggy or it isn't surely?

Ironically when I reinstalled the Nvidia drivers, I installed them directly over the top of the latest Dell driver (as it suggests on their website) and it fixed this annoying issue.

Definitely getting Dell to replace my 260m tomorrow for a 5350 or there will be rivers of blood!

 

It's better to install drivers on a clean slate rather than installing them over old ones. The old drivers can leave bits of their code in the registry that causes performance problems when the new ones are installed. I've experienced this first hand myself. I've installed drivers on top of old ones and noticed major performance boosts when I wiped the old drivers and reinstalled the new ones again.

 

Yeah, but the problem is if they release a BIOS into the wild that lets the GPU/CPUs go full throttle, you're going to have a lot of users needing new PSUs.

Same thing happened with the Studio 1747. As soon as they released a BIOS to stop throttling the system, PSUs and systems were shutting down left and right under meaningful load since they shipped with a 90w adapter to try and power a quad core i7 and ~35w 4650 which was registering 130-140 (with an extreme, I was registering ~147 with a Studio 1747) which just didn't fly. If you call Dell, they will send you a proper PSU for your 1747.

It looks like the M15x requires the same treatment in select cases (1747 is a fixed config Quad + 4650). If you're running a 5850/5730/240 + an i3/i5, the 150w PSU should get 'er done. But for those running quads (especially extremes) and 260Ms or even potentially a quad + 5850, a beefier PSU might be required.

Dear Dell,

Man Up.

-M15x users

 

I'm curious why you say this given Nvidia's recommendation.

"Q: Do I need to uninstall my older driver first?
A: No. It used to be the case that an uninstall was first required. Today the recommended method is to overinstall the newer driver on top of your older driver. This will allow you to maintain any current NVIDIA Control Panel settings or profiles."

If I didn't have a bug prior to installing the new Dell gfx card driver, how would I suddenly encounter a bug because I'd not followed your steps? Surely any old file you were concerned about not being removed would have caused the bug in the first place?

 

yeah the M15x definitely needs a new psu. my 940 is throttling like crazy.my 940+5850 is going nuts with throttling.

electrosoft, how is your 940 doing?

 

thumbs up for you....

we got all the evidence, proof, ways to solve this problem..why dell/alienware technician cannot get it...what are they doing in lab for about 8 month i think since last year this problem emerges..we got the solution ..why 'they' don't give it a try??..it makes me think what are they really working on??

 

Your previous tests show clearly what needs to be done. If one's m15x requires 185-193w to unleash its full performance, then Dell must deliver a bios that doesn't hold down the system with throttling AND hand over *FREE* 210w psu's to every single person who bought it with the 260m.

I always respected them 'cause I owned previous notebooks with their brand. They might permantly damage a loyal user's confidence if they don't solve this serious and urgent matter ASAP.

 

With Throttlestop and Rivatuner, it plays very smooth, but I am definitely worried about the heat and nice high pitch noise my PSU is tossing out under heavy load. Like you, it isn't like Dell can say, "Well, you added that CPU later." These shipped from Dell like this.

Does your GPU throttle, CPU or both inap? Are you able to control the throttling of the GPU along with Throttlestop?

A0X + 210w PSU and the problem is solved. (X= BIOS revision that removes system implemented throttling). Dell just needs to do as with the Studio. Release the BIOS first so the GPU and CPU can run as intended unhindered, then handle PSU issues case by case upon request. With the Studio 1747 fiasco, they would send out 130w PSUs. I actually ended up using a 150w PSU with my 1747+920xm from ebay to be safe since under load Kill-A-Watt was in the high 140's (inefficiencies/bleed aside) and the 130w PSU was getting pretty warm. 150w Dell PSU ran nice and luke warm.

The cooling on the M15x is, well, awesome. Even under furmark + Prime95 8-thread max heat (CPU @ ~2.5ghz), my CPU was ~80 and GPU never broke 70. I did go through and redo the thermal compound and I am using a 9-cell which provides some extra elevation to the rear of the unit.

@LeWz: 100% agree. It really is the only viable solution and it isn't without precedence with regards to the Studio 1747/1645/1647 fiasco.

 

yeah both cpu and gpu are throttling majorly. i was hoping the 940 would be a beast but now really sad with how its performing, even throttle stop doesn't help. gpu is throttling too, but does not show up with gpuz. i did a vantage run at 950/1100 and got lower then regular stock score. gonna wait for A08 but yeah we need a bigger psu. although i have a 240 from the M17x the M15x won't let me use it to its full potential.

 

even by increasing the tdp power in TS?
but the ati gpu is not actually throttling right? it's just the cpu?

 

Yeah even when the tdp is raised the cpu would still throttle. And the 5850 seems to be throttling too, but gpuz is reporting solid clocks but I can see the throttling with my eyes. I'this just sucks, waiting for a08.

 

That is correct however from what I hear that might be because the card itself is not programmed the same way to throttle. When subjected to the crazy prime + fur tests the throttling in the cpu is much more then with the 260m card throttling.. so its difficult to tell.

I have both cards and I have a test bios I will be doing some further testing.

 

wowzers.
honestly, i wish they'd allow bios tweaking in future releases.
hehe the clevo 5870 will never throttle cause the laptop doesn't even know how to hardware side, only amd gpu clock tool knows how, and that's controlled by moi

ohh thats right, your one of the lucky beta testers
that would make perfect sense since the throttling is happening in order to reduce power consumption. if the vid card throttles, then the cpu does not need to throttle back as much since there's more power to work with. but if the video card soldiers on, the cpu requires more throttling in order to achieve the same result.

honestly imo either they're going to have to give us some new power adapters, or tweak it (by undervolting) to the point where you will not be able to run the system stable at all beyond stock. no amount of magic or conjuring will make this work, something needs to give.

 

Yeah, there is still some throttling going on. Luckily Riva locks the 260M down so that's a plus, but even with Throttlestop fighting the good fight, the BIOS still will override at times and chip mod it down.

I'm going to run some logs while gaming tonight and some gaming benchmarks and see what happens. I know playing SCII and EVE, the system felt very smooth with no chunking with Riva/TS enabled.

 

I agree with you there. The last things they were saying is that this new bios fixes it with out the need for a AC Adapter change. However imo and clearly based on that data in this thread that is not the case.. I think once the new bios gets released and more people can test it will be clear.
As far as I know so far the bios does stop most real world throttling but in my opinion that isnt good enough as there maybe more software down the road that triggers more power out of the machine.

I think what would help is the Kill A Watt data.. plus new testing from all when the bios comes out. I think im the only one with the 260m testing.. I will be honest I havent put that much time testing the latest release.. (just moved ;p)
As much as it would suck, if we can still prove and show data that this is a bandaid after the release, perhaps they will really look at the adapter option.
That wont happen if we all give up, I agree like anyone else this is kinda crazy but from a tech / business stand point there is no switch to fix this instantly. There are many logistics involved in a massive fix.

 

So any official word on release date on a08 yet deex?

 

The page before this Brian stated that it should be tomorrow if all goes well. If not then really soon...

So when you get it test test away! Especially you 260M users. Im starting to now.. I have already done fur and prime for this most recent one and it has no change at all for me.. Fur by it self is good to go though.... However the real world tests I have done with prior A08 candidates do show major improvements. Will be testing heavily soon with this newer one.

 

why is it i'm more impatient now than prior to hearing about this beta? arrrgh now the wait IS killing me.

1 month ago it was like... "meh it's annoying but it's livable"... now i'm checking the dell support site every few hours.

 

this thing happen every time dell announce new BIOS release...we hope the fix was inside however regret later because the problem wont solve..

 

Get a 240W M17x PSU and your throttling should subside. The system is throttling because the PSU isn't cutting it. Normally the PSU would make no difference at all because of the bios limitations but because of Riva + TS combined, it circumvents the system bios to a degree and lets you pull more power from the PSU than you normally would be allowed to.

As for the new up and coming bios, like I told you all before, don't count on a solid fix from Dell for this. I spoke to Gerhard and the AW guys earlier this year in their Miami office and they were making excuses for it then despite the ample evidence I provided. Since I had an M17x-R2 when I went to their office and had to deal wit that, I didn't press them enough for the M15x but I did remind him of the throttling issues and the need to fix it. They purposely crippled the M15x to be limited to a certain power threshold. Bypassing it could have repercussions in a few years with the mainboard dying earlier but so far I haven't seen that and it's been nearly a year that people have used my Riva fix along with TS.

If I had to bet right now, I'd say the new bios still won't be enough for 940x + 5850/5870 combinations, especially if you take increased TDP and GPU overclocking into account, not by a long shot. You guys will continue to need TS + Rivatuner. If you follow the Wiki link in my signature, it talks about how to OC the 5870 with Riva. The same method also applies to the 5850m but you will need to substitute a 5850m bios to get it to work instead of the 5870m bios I talk about. Riva will force your GPU into 3d mode and stop it from throttling. However, with a 150W supply, even Rivatuner won't be able to hold out and the system will automatically throttle by reducing the GPU load state from 100% all the way down to as low as 0-20%, thus my recommendation for an M17x 240W PSU.

P.S. Furmark + Prime 95 with a 940xm + 5800 series card is not a realistic stress test despite having used it in the first page as a basis to determine if throttling was happening. Play games like bad company 2, GTA IV, WoW etc and turn on logging for GPU-Z and TS and see what your results show.

P.P.S. If you guys can afford it, dump the M15x and move over to the M17x. It's a more stable gaming platform IMO, especially with the latest vbios.

 

I will wait until end of this year..if dell wont fix it..will dump my m15x and go for sager..more cheaper and higher specs..

 

It's cheaper in more ways than you know and I'm not referring to the price tag.

 

True, the readings on the KaW meter were pretty juicy (193w at peak). Even calculating in bleed/loss, that is still exceeding the 150w PSU. I'd think a PA-7E would do the trick . PA-9E might be overkill for the single card M15x.

PA-7E = 210w
PA-9E = 240w

 

I agree, but Im also worried that the dell fix looks like this:

"Ok, Let us unthrottle the GPU, but throttle the CPU even more since nobody complained about that. This should still keep it under 150W"

 

2-thread Prime95 + Furmark locked with Riva reduced my 940xm to 930mhz before Throttlestop put an end to that. I don't know how much more they can throttle it....

 

All I know is the brilliant execs + engineers that decided to push for these throttle limits on their premier Alienware line of notebooks need to be fired. I can understand it being implemented in their value segment to cut costs but Alienware? Time for heads to roll. Thankfully the M17x-R2 has no throttling or major outstanding issues now that a new vbios has been issued. The PM55 chipset has slow SSD performance but that spans across many brands.

 

what is it?? can you tell me..i don't get your point..

 

IMO Clevo/Sager is far too overrated. I owned a Sager 8690 that had the poorest build quality of any gaming notebook I've recently owned. It was even built worse than the Asus G51 I had prior to it. Sager has decent cooling, not much better than Alienware but that's about it. The designs are ugly, the construction is cheap quality plastic (and cheap paint to go along with it), poor warranty service and off the shelf cheap Chinese branded LCDs. It's not even in the same league as Alienware in build/warranty/aesthetics/extras, in fact no notebook maker besides Apple is based on all the experience I've had. But a few things Clevo does right is the cooling and not implementing throttling schemes into their notebooks.

 

Err Guys I need help here.
I just notice my m15x (740QM) could not go any higher than 1.8ghz (x14 Multiplier) I checked the bios, Turbo Boost is enabled. And even with throttlestop, I could not increase the multiplier. (It's just stucked at x14)

What gives?

EDIT:
Lol nevermind, I think I misunderstood how the turbo boost works - -

 

Just received a call from tech support supervisor. I'll will be returning my M15x for a full refund as they are unable to exchange the nvidia card for an ATI card. I have really no idea how dell Europe customer service works. All I wanted was for them to replace the gfx card. I also cannot get a replacement system for some reason.

Therefore Ill be going shop;ping for a new M15x and this time Im going to order by phone. Unfortunately, I cannot afford the M17x and its also a bit too big/heavy for me