AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

Not to diminish the legitimacy of these reports but you shouldn't neglect to purchase these machines based on this issue. These machines have garnered alot of respect and high marks from numerous independent testing companies. (I.E. CNET) If they were able to clock such high benchmark numbers than obviously these machines were working as designed. A laptop will never be a desktop and vice versa. I would like to mention that sometimes applications can report incorrect numbers when operating in a 64-bit environment. I have had numerous instances of that issue. Sometimes it halves the numbers I am expecting to see, so keep that in mind. Again, I do not want to diminish the importance of this issue. If something is wrong, you can bet that DELL/AW has seen this thread grow and will be looking into it.

-Firecat

 

If anyone has Farcry 2 or GTA4, please run some benchmarks (as stressful as possible).

These two are the only games I know of so far that are heavily threaded and will emulate real world and future games that will utilize all cores and max out the GPU as well.

 

I'll have GTA4 by tonight.

 

I think I'll pick up a cheap copy today as well just to use the benchmarking.

Joker, do you want to try 2 test settings:

Maxed out - Highest texture and graphics settings, 1920x1080, highest AA and AF settings.

CPU test - Lowest graphics settings in lowest resolution it allows. All AA/AF settings off.

Both with 260M Card stock @ 550/1350/900. 186.82 drivers.

 

ok i am running tests on my M15x remotely. You know...for the record...it sucks to see my laptop on a webcam and not use it myself. I didn't even get to unbox it. FML!

 

I'm using the 186.81 WHQL just so there's no questions of the driver not being certified. I'll use both those settings in GTA 4 once I get it. BTW the stock settings for the M15X are 550/1350/950. Dell clocked the shaders 25mhz below nVidia stock settings for some reason.

 

There is a video on youtube of gta4 gameplay on M15x. But I think he didn't max out all the settings for it. hope this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5462lNA0k

 

Vista 7 huh...

 

The key point though is that today most apps other then very specialized ones don't use the power of a quad core. In 12-24 months. Many people buy these systems to do as much future proofing as humanly possible. we all know that future proofing is generally a myth, however buying a quad system now in the hopes that it would be used sometime in the near future isn't.
If in 12 months with newer games that use quads come on the market and impact the GPU in this way....*shrugs* Its not as if we are seeing games that are coming out that the system can't handle. There is a bottleneck here.

Good luck on the testing guys....may the geek be with you.


PS- Does anyone know if this impacts the GPU when using all three models of i7? e.g 2Ghz, 1.7Ghz, 1.6Ghz? That should be interesting to find out as well.

 

Joker, sucks that the higher-rated PSU didn't work. Looks like something with the motherboard, according to what Pud mentioned. Hope you get that fixed. Something that expensive shouldn't be having problems like that.

And when I first saw his name, I thought "John B. @ Dell" was "John Bat Dell", as in, John bats dells.

It updates the system BIOS through a flash. The actual, in-OS overclocking is done through drivers.

 

I installed Far Cry 2 and played the first few scenes of it. I logged gpu-z and the cpu frequency (using Tmonitor) and the CPU never peaked at 100%. Maybe further into the game it will push it harder but so far the game hasn't utilized all 4 cores like the synthetic tests do.

 

I don't think real life example is going to utilized all 4 core at 100% at the same time.

 

3d rendering brings it to 98+. compiling with multithreaded flags brings can bring up to 60-95, depending on what's being built.

 

GTAIV, GRID, and Supreme Commander are a few games that will jog the CPU and GPU fairly hard if you crank up all the settings.

 

So throttling only happens when cpu is at 100% ? So everything is fine unless the cpu is under 100% load? sorry i'm not very good with all this technical stuff? what real world program or game would put the cpu at 100% load?

 

GTA 4 is being installed.

 

I can see this being an issue in the longer term, as more software is released that makes use of all the cores and the hyperthreading across them, but I don't think this is a big issue right now. Dell has already stated, in this thread, that they are looking at the issue and will issue guidance/fixes. I've done plenty of gaming in machine and if it's down-clocking out of sight, then I'd never know it - and that's including running some very heavy duty sims with a ton of sim add-ons in the background as well.

Granted this needs fixing, and it's awesome it's been spotted, documented and raised. But I think there's a bit of hysteria in the thread too - just my opinion.

 

I'd agree with some of what you said. The potential issue is something we'd run into in the future with a game or application that pushes the CPU close to 100% while the GPU is running. So far, far cry 2 has not been able to do so. I'm downloading a mod for GTA IV that will enable invincibility + full wanted mode so I can have a bunch things going on at once. If that doesn't push the CPU to 100% and cause the GPU to throttle, then nobody really needs to worry about the issue for now. However, that should not let Dell off the hook and since they are now aware of the issue, I have faith that they will remedy it one way or another. I've never been let down by Dell and I don't think they'd start now with their prized AW division.

 

Here is a quick benchmark that should be most comparable to your system:

GTX 260M @ your stock clocks (550, 950, 1350), 186.82, view distance was not allowing me to go past 65, every other setting was maxed:

Statistics
Average FPS: 30.34
Duration: 37.21 sec
CPU Usage: 95%
System memory usage: 75%
Video memory usage: 82%

Graphics Settings
Video Mode: 1600 x 900 (60 Hz)
Texture Quality: High
Render Quality: Highest
View Distance: 65
Detail Distance: 100

Hardware
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M
Video Driver version: 186.82
Audio Adapter: Speakers (3- Logitech Z-5 Speakers)
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9900 @ 3.3GHz

File ID: benchmark.cli

I also did an overclocked run @ 600/1000/1550 @ 1920x1200, view distance @ 45 (would not select higher) and surprisingly got about the same numbers (average FPS was 30.05).

By the way, this game's graphics suck!

 

I had GTA IV installed before and it ran like a sprinter with 1 lead shoe, fast slow fast slow.... I'm only mildly concerned cos my i7 desktop can handle anything the laptop wont. I'm reinstalling GTA now so I can contribute to the testing.

Edit: I've also played quite a lot of GRID, it runs great at full settings.

 

^ I Don't know how Rockstar games makes money... people must really enjoy running pedestrians over and carjacking to suffer through the crap that is GTA4 graphics... damn they look like they came out of something from 10 years ago.

 

Ok I'm running the game straight out of the box, no patches or anything. It seems the benchmark mode barely uses up 50% of the CPU power so I'll definitely have to resort to in game testing on my own. I've attached the results to this post so you can compare the GPU-Z log to the Tmonitor.

 

GTAIV has issues with hyper-threading so it only uses one thread on each core.

 

Sorry but I strongly disagree. I am planning to buy a M17 or M15 and this is a blocking issue.

How would you like it if you paid $100K for an Aston Martin and they would say "ah you wont need all of those 12 cylinders, only 3 are functional and we'll think of a fix somewhere down the road, just buy the damn thing"

Same problem but more down to earth. Maybe we should only pay $50 to AW/Dell and the rest when its fully functional??

Edit; Absolutely no personal offense to you my friend

 

haha reminds just like when we were like "OMGZ ASUS G51 so cheap, so much power!!" then some1 grabs it and does some testing..."o noes! it runs hot as hell."

will we ever find a perfect gaming notebook? i thought dell was about to redefine what a gaming notebook means...

my prediction, which is usually off by a mile, is that this is a mb/gpu conflict like one post mentioned about 75/65W power usage limit, so once the GPU starts chugging out in high end apps, while the CPU is is also using it, cpu has to borrow some power or somth? ..below

but im one of the most illiterate ppl on NBR, so i have no idea what im talking about and feel free to correct mah stupidity and/or foolishness.

 

Sucks about the throttling but to people who have one on order dont worry too much about this yet. As for real gaming performance the M15x stands up to the challenge for the most part. With the decent performance of the 260 and the nice screen you wont be dissapointed. The newest game Ive run is probably borderlands, which I max out at 1080p (except shadows) and get 60fps unless theres tons going on, rarely drops past 40fps. LfD2 with max settings seems to run better at 720p and still looks great. I will run some throttling tests for you guys and post back. On the bright side the power draw of the 5000 series cards is supposed to be less and would probably make this a non issue, maybe when the come out dell might give us a discount on the upgrade, doubt it but maybe.

 

I completely agree with the 2 posters above me. This laptop is still a fantastic laptop. It still runs games extremely well. It is extremely well done for the $$$ we pay. Well I paid $1499 with upgraded GPU so to me that is a great deal on this laptop. I don't think I will ever utilize 100% CPU and GPU. It's just not going to happen until a next gen of gaming comes out and by then I will probably buy a new laptop.

If you have this laptop on order then keep it. You will be very happy with its abilities, looks, and comfort.

 

Ditto...

I have been working with Dell since 2002. As a Windows Server Admin I have seen bumps on new releases and Dell has taken care of bussines.

Guys relax this is a BAD ARSE system that rivals my Gaming PC.

This M15x I have on order is replacing a Dell D800 I have had since March 03... BTW the D800 has Windows 7 Bussiness and work like a charm.
Dell has a good track record with me.
I will admit I hate thier customer support but be patient.. you have one of the best laptops on the market right now. In the IT world you will only be the best for a month or so and another top contender will rise.

 

Guys, if you do not have a specific test to run or findings related to the throttle issue, please do not take the thread OT. You can ask about warranty, Dell's track record etc in the M15x owners lounge. Thanks!

 

Edited because I don't want Dell to come down on me like a sack of bricks for distributing potentially confidential info...that I didn't think was at the time but now....gah! Mods delete if you wish.

 

b ump . . .

 

yeah...it got all sorts of quiet in here.

 

Hmm its a shame to read up on this, cousin just got this machine, haven't heard from him yet but hes just handed back an m1730 due to failures, now this is having brick problems, ill see if he has ran into any problems.

In the mean time, i have had 4 eve online clients assigned to individual cores get me to 100% CPU usage and GPU

If there are any multi character users here, try it haha.

 

Joker, have you considered writing up a comprehensive review of the M15x for the Notebookreview.com website? I would ask the staff to see if they want another one, as I believe have one already (but since you have the 1600x900 screen and some other specs, they might be interested).

This would give any criticisms you have (including the throttling issue) better exposure to the public via Google hits and the like.

 

I've got a huge workload coming up for the next 6 weeks and I simply don't have the time needed to write a thorough review. However, if anyone else wants to take up the slack I'd be glad to assist (if asked).

 

Well once I get mine, I will see if everything checks out OK (except the throttling issue), and see if NBR wants another M15x review. Mine is a 1920x1080 screen without the BD and everything, so it's already mostly covered by Charles Jefferies's review.

 

Just as a friendly fyi....

Alienware/Dell is not allowing returns of the M15x without the 15% restocking fee, regardless if you feel the machine is throttling or not. This would go against their own "defective" policy, as I feel the M15x is defective because of it.

So.... it's costing me 180 bucks to return the laptop, and Dell is losing a customer. Forever.

Nevermind the fact, that I was "offered" 50 bucks to keep it, and I told them I was considering moving to the M17x...

BTW, I was also told my the "manager" that Dell folks are indeed watching these boards. Strange as they would not cop to the fact that the throttle is indeed happening and don't consider it to be a defect.

So be it. I'll move on to another company to make my purchases from....

-D

 

Threaten to call the BBB, file a complain with your state's attorney general, and invoke your state's lemon law....even if you don't have one there are key words that dell reps are trained to freak out over. Lemon Law is one even if your state doesn't have one.

As for Dell monitoring this site. Dude. There is NO way in heck it has trickled down to some account manager at this point. We are looking at an issue that was discovered MAYBE...4 days ago. You are acting as if the dude is leaning back in his chair and yelling HEY BOB (In engineering.) HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT A PROBLEM WITH THROTTLING IN THE M15X??!?
This maybe is going to take a month to filter down. Maybe. Right now, assuming this has gotten the attention of a manager, they may have started to look into this this coming week.
IMHO I'm willing to bet cash this is a problem with the BIOS. Wait for a soon to be released update.

 

Actually Dell is aware of this issue. See the Dell Representative's reply on page 11 in this thread.

 

I am very confident this issue will get resolved. It's a shame that peoples attitudes towards the situation are basically telling people don't buy Alienware or support them.

Anyways, I contacted Dell and a tech said they are very much aware of the problem and they are working on resolving it.

Let them fix it before you start panicking. I am sure it's coming soon.

 

Nice dig. ;-)

In my opinion, it's a shame that Alienware/Dell is not standing behind a customer who has purchased 2 TV's, an Inspiron, an Alienware desktop, and an XBOX360 and *was* considering an M17x by making me pay 180 bucks.

Now, they will get nothing from me outside of the 180 for the restocking fee. Just as a "feel good" event, I called a buddy who was thinking about Dell/Alienware for Christmas and told him of my "joyfull" experience.

Dell/Alienware has now lost a sale there as well.

In any event, I'm done with them.

For those from other company's that read the Alienware boards and who have true customer service, PM me as I'm in the market for another laptop.

-D

 

Sorry to hear that they did treat you that way. That would be very upsetting to me as well. I hear HP has good customer service? I'd just get something xoticpc.com. They handle all your problems with the manufacturer. Anyways...thats a different topic than this thread. PM me if you wish.

Take care.

 

I have a m15x with 920xm and gtx260m. I think mine has the same problem like yours, the frequency of gpu drops sometimes when the system is fully loaded, but just sometimes, and everytime it lasts for just 3secs(about). If I overclock the gpu, the problem become a little serious, after 20mins or 30mins the frequency of gpu will decrease to 300Mhz(not sure but very low), and it won't come back until i restart the system.

Unfortunately, I can not run the test that you metioned, because of the rivatuner64.sys can not be loaded, but in my opinion the result will be the same as yours.

By the way, the frequency of my 920xm is unstable when the system is fully loaded too, if I turn off the turbo mode, it will be stable.

This is my situation...obviously there are too many problems need to be solved

 

You have the extreme cpu.....with much higher clock speed. Mind if I ask what is it that you do that max out your systeM.

 

well.....I just played some games, like gta4 and crysis, should I try occt or furmark?

 

Try running the tests as I outlined in the first post. Or you could run the OCCT PSU test + furmark together and have GPU-z open to monitor/log the GPU frequency. Then post your GPU-Z log here on the forum along with screen shots of OCCT + furmark running if you like.

Please post the following after you run the test:

1. Screen shot of OCCT PSU test + furmark running (see the first post for settings)
2. System configuration: CPU, ram, display resolution, HDD, Driver version
3. Add attached GPU-Z log to your post.

Thanks!

 

but I can not use rivatuner, it says rivatuner64.sys can not be loaded, any solution? What can I do without rivatuner?

 

You do not need Rivatuner. Just the applications I mentioned above: GPU-Z, Furmark and OCCT (or you can use Prime 95 or Intel burn test in place of OCCT). Check the first post for instructions and download links.

 

ok...i tried occt, and i got this

 

Thanks for running the tests and posting your results. Yet another M15X owner that has confirmed the throttling flaw.