AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

It's a big improvement over the last one, and 200GB is a sweet spot for me (still carry around an external at all times though).

They are still pretty expensive though, later this year prices of these types of drives will go down and capacities will go up (duh, like always).

I heard that within 6 months you can expect 600GB drives for the same price range ($6-700), but that's a projected figure.

 

hopefully the prices will drop soon, my 160 is not big enough for me, i carry a external also. geez i'm going broke here,lol

 

Isn't ocz vertex 2 pro different from ocz vertex 2... Something to Do with SF1200 and SF1500 controller. How much did you get it for and from where...

 

Note: The following is only talking about *GPU* Throttling. I have never noticed *CPU* throttling, but I have never tested for it either. I have not ever run any benchmark tests like Furmark or anything else.

Hi guys, I've been reading this forum and just wanted to add that throttling reliably happens with Supreme Commander 2, and causes a very noticable drop in framerate for most of the game, since SupCom2 likes to run one of the cores in the CPU at 100% no matter how much action is going on in the game, especially when you're zoomed out to "strategic mode". This is with the 920XM and 260M, both not overclocked. A05 BIOS, Revision A2 of the 260M, ForceWare 197.16. 4 GB RAM, 128GB SSD. Since SupCom2 is only running *one* of the cores at 100%, it's in Turbo mode the entire time.

Note that Rivatuner does fix this problem when "Force constant 3D performance mode" is checked and the clocks are forced to stay at the standard 550/950/1350 rates. This lets the game run very smooth with the highest graphics settings with no drop in framerate, but the fans do get very loud after about 5 minutes of playing, and they stay on full blast the entire time (games can last an hour or more).

Although Rivatuner fixes the problem, it does have a couple drawbacks. The first drawback for me was the annoying UAC prompt when starting Windows. I tried getting rid of that by making the RivaTunerWrapper /S run as a Scheduled Task instead of running at Login, but that method was unreliable. Specifically, even though the Scheduled Task would run successfully, the clocks would get "stuck" at 383 instead of 550. Setting the Scheduled Task to have a 'delay' of 30 seconds after login seemed to improve the success rate, but I never got 100% confidence with that method. I ended up getting rid of the UAC prompt by changing my UAC settings to stop prompting me when an application wants to elevate. Note that this is NOT turning UAC OFF; it's simply getting rid of the dialog box that pops up. For those interested, you can use Group Policy to change the setting, or just change the registry directly:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System]
"ConsentPromptBehaviorAdmin"=dword:00000000

The second drawback for me is that now my clocks are *always* locked to 550, even if I'm just reading email or surfing the web. Even if the laptop is sitting idle with no applications open, one of the fans is constantly on low the entire time. I seem to remember that before using RivaTuner, the laptop would be completely silent (no fans at all, not even on low) when no applications were running. Maybe my recollection is bad and the M15x has always had at least one fan running on low speed the entire time? In any case, it seems wasteful to have my clocks running at 550 when surfing the web, when they could be running at 200 or 250 or 383 if I didn't have RivaTuner installed.

From reading JWest's comments on page 122 of this thread, it sounds like flashing the BIOS to 1V might be a good option instead of using RivaTuner. JWest, if you're reading this, can you give a little more detail on the pros and cons of this approach? If it's indeed better than the RivaTuner fix, why isn't everyone on this forum doing it?

 

Flashing to 1v isn't a throttle fix. It's just more stable for high overclocks. It wouldn't help you at all.

 

if the fans are always kicking on just replace the thermal paste should make the fans not run so fast and as long.

 

yeah you are forcing gaming clocks on your system 100% of the time, so your making run hotter, normally surfing web and lite stuff the laptop only uses the 2d clocks which makes it run cooler. i highly recommend only using the fix when gaming, or back down to 2d clocks when not gaming.

 

Assuming we are talking about the 260M, the standard voltage is 1V (for High performance 3D). You can up it to 1.03V and this does increase the power draw slightly and definitely makes throttling appear faster. Mine didn't throttle at all until I upped the voltage.

 

@Mr Pras does upping the voltage for you give you steadier frame rates by having the 260m flashed to 1v

im wondering because if that can help when im ocing to have steadier frames would be nice to know

 

Flashing to 1V gives you more stable OC performance. I play SupCom2 while overclocked, just using NVIDIA's performance panel and I haven't seen any throttling, except on occasion in Demigod. I've adjusted my OC settings to the point where I haven't yet seen anymore in Demigod, but I have more testing to do.

Rivatuner is a fix, but like you said, it has plenty of drawbacks. I'm hoping that Dell can fix this issue altogether at some point. Obvisouly our computers are perfectly capable of running full clocks without any problems, since the Rivatuner fix prevents throttling and the computer still runs just fine. It seems to just be some kind of driver or BIOS error, both of which are in Dell's territory for fixing.

 

hopeful the next bios has this 'fix' in it would be sooo glad

 

Well yes, basically. I'll just give an example:

700/1100/1750 runs without glitches on 1.03V but on 1V it produces some artifacts. I couldn't push it much further with the higher voltage (720/1100/1800) would be the absolute limit.

But without the higher voltage it would totally bug out at that frequency, and I'd have to reset or drop in and out of standby to fix it.

It allowed me to run at a slightly higher clock (before the voltage I used to run safely at 640/1000/1600) so with the extra performance, the games are improved slightly for sure.

When running furmark with the higher clock I did experience throttling (5 seconds every 30 seconds roughly) and when I put the screen brightness to full it was more 15 seconds and 15 seconds.

Other than that, all the games I played ran fine except GTA IV which throttled for 5 seconds every 30 (roughly).

So yeah, upping the voltage allowed for a higher overclock but honestly - I WOULDN'T BOTHER! You have to pull your bios off the video card, mod it and flash it back and there is no fallback on these machines AFAIK.

If you are willing to take the risk, you should use NVFLASH to download the video rom and mod it with NiBiTor. My modded bios contains only 2 changes to the performance 3D mode - Stock clocks are 640/1000/1600 and voltage is 1.03V. So now I have a very stable overclock as standard and push it to 700/1100/1750 when I want the performance and the game doesn't throttle.

I tried some other changes but only had problems.. Tried changing the other clocks to make them a little slower. This should have made the computer quieter in all modes except performance 3D (which is the only one where you really need a lot of power). The other modes can be quite slow since you usually don't use much of the GPU or you want the full power. (The video decoder is the same speed whatever your clocks are).

I had a lot of complications when trying to start up with that and had to try several liveCDs to get to the NVflash app to work (because it needed some specific service). Basically, if you mod it only touch the performance 3d clocks and voltage and if you found this post too technical - DON'T BOTHER, YOU MIGHT BRICK YOUR MACHINE - and dell will tell you that it's your fault so no warranty!!

 

no just wanted someone who had done this so i would know if i should do that but i can't even throttle as my cpu only uses 28 watts so plenty left over for the 260m.

 

I've done this and my last post was explaining it in some depth. I thought it would help you to understand. Read the post and it should help you to decide if you want to do it. It does increase the chance of throttling and if you aren't having an issue now, you should be okay. As I said, from having done it..

I have the 720QM which is using more power than your CPU so you will definitely be alright!

 

well when or if i feel the desperate need for it whenever a new game doesn't run how i want i will do so but until then or else i get the 5850 we shall see.

i appreciate the in depth explanation makes me more trusting to do so but will hold off as the games im running now run very well. just wish this screen was a 60hz cause when into the 30 fps range it doesn't seem as smooth as it should.

 

Hmm. Ironically enough, I flashed back to the original bios and have not seen any throttling in Demigod yet. Go figure

 

lol glad to hear that its fixed

 

OK now heres my prob.. I just started using the Riva fix. So the throttling is gone but now I have another problem. While playing a game randomly, (not as frequent as the throttling was) the screen goes black and comes back on.
It has happened quite a few times over the past few days. Strange thing is for the first couple days of using riva it didnt do this frequently. It is now happening multiple times a day.

Any ideas? This is crazy!!! Clearly there is a power problem. I posted a thread about contacting about this... please people read it!
Im so frustrated.

 

Not sure if this matters but I notice my riva tuner is acting odd regarding the clockspeeds. For one my memory clock is 950.4 Mhz its a small change but each and every screenie I see not a single one says that for the memory.

2nd thing would be if I down clock to say 949 Mhz, instead of it going to 949
it changes the clock speed to 945Mhz .. its never exact.

anyone know?

 

Clock generator chips usually don't change in exact steps of 1 MHz. It might go up and down in steps of 5.4 MHz or some odd ball number like that and perhaps GPU-Z is rounding that off to the nearest whole number. Probably not a big deal.

A black screen is not good. If you are maintaining a higher clock while gaming now with the help of RivaTuner, you are also creating more heat. Log the GPU temperature while playing. You might have to back your GPU clocks down significantly to see if this problem goes away.

 

download gpu-z version 0.3.8 and do not update it when prompted.... it'll fix it.. its just gpu-z version glitch...

 

Yep, you've set your clocks to high. Your video card is being forced to work harder than it can given the amount of wattage the computer is giving it, and so your display driver resets (that's what's happening when it goes black and comes back on).

What clocks are you running? Try turning them down a bit, and see if that fixes the problem.

 

Do you think the new ATI 5850m would have the same problems as the the Nvidia 260m??? or is just this laptop in general? in terms of throttling

 

I'm not sure, but I've got my rig OC'd on stock voltages and have not seen any real world throttling. Mine only throttled when I upped the voltage. As it is, I only get throttling in synthetic tests.

 

Ditto..................................

 

Hey guys, having an issue with my gtx 260m that may be related to throttling but I'm unsure. I have used the gpu throttling fix as described in this thread and it has worked for months without problem however suddenly I find my clocks have gone from 550/950/1350 to 383/766/300 and no matter how many times I try to fix it in rivatuner it always goes back to these lower clocks. This happened during a game of Civilization IV which shouldn't be very demanding for this card and it has been this way since. My logs don't show any overheating. I'm using the 195.62 drivers. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Make sure that "force constant performance level" is set to "performance 3D".

Honestly, my advice would be to just uninstall RivaTuner and stay at the stock voltages and keep the OC'ing modest. However, if you're still seeing throttling then go ahead with the RivaTuner fix.

 

or just do a hard reset by turning off the laptop, removing the battery, holding the power button for 20secs then reseat the battery and turn it back on try that.

 

I've noticed throttling in 3 games (after installing the throttling fix). GTA IV, Crysis and Dirt 2. Crysis the most, then GTA IV and it's only happened once in Dirt 2. I've pushed my clocks u to 600/1600/1000 though. But I'm not too fussed, since compared to my old computer, it runs games like a dream

 

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. That did the trick. Thank you, +rep.

 

that is the best troubleshooting technique for the M15x for almost all its little slip ups that process fixes them all lol

 

I have installed RivaTuner and it is apparent that while gaming, the system downclocks the GPU's settings to those Jocker mentioned.
Has anything come up since the polemic started December last year? Or am I stuck with a messed up MB and forced to overclock the poor thing till it passes out?
"Damn you dell for forcing me into this position"^^ (Ed-Harris in The Rock).
Cheers.

EDIT: OK! Something (the new bios?) has caused some of my cores to reach 81 celcius while running L4D2 (Realtemp data).
While the GPU sticks to a heavenly 51 degrees under load thanks to the "overclocking" guide I can't get to run normally.
Here attached is a link to screenshot of a few monitoring programs running whilst in game.
The tutorial was followed as indicated and completed successfully so there is something the BIOS is mucking around with or an operation I haven't carried out properly.
Not panicking - yet...

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2625/frustration.jpg

 

On the XPS 1645, it almost seemed that the core voltage had been adjusted upward with the most recent bios. Something has changed that is causing a lot more CPU heat for some users.

Unfortunately Intel does not document how user software can adjust core voltage from within Windows. They made some changes to the Core i design so this great Core 2 feature is no longer available.

Here's an updated version of RealTemp. It won't likely change your temperatures any but I think it's got a few more features.

RealTemp 3.59
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/RealTempBeta.zip

One monitoring program you are using might have a bug where it doesn't read all 4 of your cores. Some programs read 4 threads of temperature data but that is equivalent to data from only 2 of your 4 cores. If you run a constant load like Prime95 Small FFTs and allow the core temperatures to stabilize, you should be able to see what I'm talking about.

You can add GPU=1 to the ThrottleStop.ini configuration file if you want that program to also monitor your Nvidia GPU temps.

 

Hey, thanks for the update, I gave Prime a go and man does it stress!
Stopped it when temps reached 78 Celcius. So I have an under-performing GPU and an overheating CPU. I am worried sick about my laptop.
What can I do :/

 

You can contact Dell and tell them how unimpressed you are. Maybe they will upgrade you to an M17x like some users have been upgraded to. Of course, both the M17x R1 and R2 have some severe throttling issues too so I'm not sure if you'll be better off or not.

The only way to reduce CPU heat is to reduce your overclock. You might have to settle for 2.8 GHz or lower to keep the heat down.

Intel CPUs are designed to run reliably up to 100C. At least your CPU is running at full speed without any throttling in your picture.

 

are you using the 920 for this or the 720 because with the 920 its very apparent due to the higher tdp compared to the 720.

 

Hey guys, appreciate the support a lot. I am using the 920 at the moment but considering returning to the 720 for obvious reasons.
Also, the GPU is still underclocked after a back flash which is worrying.
I just wish Bios were stable... but what a dream.
I am going to attempt a final restore of the factory Mobo Bios.
My fans seems to be idling but not responding which would explain the excessive heat on the cpu.
Bizarre Bizarre.

Just to show How underclocked my card is at the moment :

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9504/clockedwonder.jpg

 

i think riva tuner is the cause of your issue. sometimes when using it it glitches and forces only 2d clocks. maybe do the power drain method to see if it helps get it back. power off- unplug- take battery out- press power button for 20 sec. -put back and see if that helps.

 

Hey Inapp, fancy seeing you here
I have tried this already and it hasn't solved the issue.
Attempting a second blind flash of the video Bios, see if it works but insofar, after 7hours of effort I am nowhere.

 

i would uninstall riva tuner, i think that it is causing your issue bro.

yeah i pop up every where,lol

 

lol that you do.
I just did that and I am back to my throttling issues, with abusively high temperatures for the CPU with around 50 at idle and 70 under load.
Any way I can restore the factory settings for the BIOS? I was at A02 before moving to A05 and getting all troubled with that stuff.

And thanks for the help, great community support.
Also I bought 1mm Pads for the 5870 so I hope I get all this fixed before it all gets here (took me a while to notice you had a great acrobat guide for GPU swapping attached to your signature^^).

 

Were you messing around with anything? You reset the bios by disconnecting the coin battery.

 

Ok cool I'll give that a go ASAP.
Here's what I did:

1. Burned A05 on CD
2. Booted to CD, ran the update and let it do its thing.
3. Started the laptop and tried to run Just Cause 2, which is when I figured something was wrong. Black flashes, what I later discovered to be throttling problems I had randomly heard about on my weekly eavesdrops^^. As a result (maybe a stupid move):
4. Boot to A02 CD, ran the update and let it do its thing. Same problem in game.
5. Read Jocker's post and gave it a go.
6. Flashed the GTX 260M BIOS and let it do its thing.
7. Installed Reva Tuner 2.24 and followed the post indications.
8. Installed ThrottleStop (Great programming skills from Uncle) and Real Temp.
9. Tried to set new clocks in Reva Tuner to no avail, despite reading and watching many online tutorials.
10. Posted a post on p.129 stating how concerned an amateur I was^^

Thats as much fiddling I carried out until then, giving the Battery removal a go as soon as this post is online

 

Here we have it, the CPU seems to be very unstable.It just bumps around on idle , going from 48 to 55 and in around these waters.
The GPU downclocking is still occuring despite having restored the A02 Bios and the 260M Bios using a blind flash.
What I have noticed is the fans don't operate like they used to - above 50 degrees for the CPU and the fans would roar about, striving to reduce system temperatures. But even while gaming with a top note of 81 being hit by the 4th core, the fans spin at normal speeds.
Fan Speed controller? New System? No more laptops for Farmer? ^^
Another beautiful day in Britain! (3 in a row, keeping score)

 

Quick update - Contacted Alienware support who state they have never heard about this issue (throttling) before which is obvious seing how many of us have had difficulties
Suggested I use Powermizer to stop the card from downclocking and that the card was safe as long as temps remained below 90. Crazy right?
Going to give Powermizer a go, then I will swap the Ram, then the CPU.
Different hardrives or Bios battery removal did not help.
Once I return to France, they will proceed to picking up the system and fixing it - which I hope is a viable option and that they take could care if it (NO SCRATCHES!!!!).
Thanks for everyone's help, Throttlestop was suggested to me by the tech support to who may be concerned
Cheers and hasta la vista!

 

all your temps are operating within specs, my fan don't really kick in till it hits 60-65 so, i think your fans are still fine. not sure what your problem is bro?

 

Yeah, my problem is CPU temps reaching 80-85 Celcius while gaming whereas they were at 55 under the same stress before the BIOS update. The second issue is the throttling that is occurring and that I can't seem to fix.
I understand I have been spamming this thread a lot these past few days but whatever I do, my efforts towards regaining normal temps and fps are going nowhere.

 

A06 is out try that it could be your saving grace in this matter

 

Anyone stress test the A06 BIOS to see if it fixed any issues?

EDIT: I can confirm that the GPU is still throttling in synthetic tests :/

 

well that's to be expected(its a laptop from dell) if there is no real world issues its all good right?