AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

Oh well.. That does suck.. I think everyone who wants is entitled to a refund. If everyone on this thread wrote to dell and said "unacceptable" then they will have to review their Bios revision approach.

Perhaps someone here is a lawyer and wants to point us to a proper draft document for official complaint? If everyone here having a problem was to sign it, they would have to take notice..

Money back is always an option. It's clearly a design flaw.

 

Yeah, and I would have returned mine had I bought one. I almost ordered back in December, but checked here first.

I know there's that work around (which proves this is a software issue!) but I'm not willing to spend $2000 and have to resort to a clunky work around. Pisses me off that Dell actually only sells one decent laptop, IMO.

 

The workaround stops the laptop from throttling but doesn't prove it's a software issue. If it is a power thing, then it would be pushing the power supply and probably shortening it's life and in theory would be a fire hazard.

People keep saying it isn't a power issue, but Throttlestop's help says

"Some laptops are using clock modulation and multiplier reductions to lower the performance and power consumption of your computer. This is done deliberately to either allow your computer to run cooler or to allow your laptop to operate with a power adapter that is not sufficient to fully power your laptop and recharge its battery at the same time. When using ThrottleStop, it is strongly recommended to monitor power consumption at the wall with a Kill-a-Watt meter or similar device and make sure that you don't exceed the power capabilities of your power adapter. Use of ThrottleStop to bypass these throttling schemes is at your own risk and can result in permanent damage to your power adapter or computer or both which may not be covered by your warranty."

I can't understand why people say it's not a power related issue. i'm sure the Bios is capping the power supply input to avoid overloading the power supply which would clearly happen using a 75W and a 55W chip at the same time, together with all the other power drains in a machine such as screen and hdd. It's obvious you are going to start pushing at the 150W rated maximum of the power supply.

Not only would forcing that to happen be a very silly thing to do, it's also a very stupid thing to do! No company in their right mind would risk fire hazard law-suits.. And pushing your Powersupply would risk shock and fire hazards.

There is no way we would be penalized like this unless they had a choice. I'm sure they are paying attention to it and looking for a solution. No-one wants to risk their brand and lose customers. And as you rightly said, you didn't buy it BECAUSE of this.. Good choice perhaps..

It's possible that using a 210W powersupply and editing the bios to cap at 200W would solve the problem. Just putting a stronger powersupply wouldn't help if the Bios had a rule to throttle at 145W or whatever.

I've never seen a laptop with a Bios option to WARN IF USING AN UNRATED POWER SUPPLY - that's a bit weird isn't it? Perhaps it's related somehow. These machines clearly need a stronger power supply anyway, since using basic arithmetic it's easy to see that the higher end models are pushing the power envelope.

Does anyone get throttling with lower power GPU or CPU (such as 5870 and i5/i3)??

Has anyone tried using an external monitor to shut off the internal screen and save some power? Does that affect throttling?

 

i haven't experienced this problem at all due to the fact imo because of the 620m drawing less power and allowing full graphic capabilities without throttling.

 

I have to say, I never really experienced throttling (to the best of my knowledge) until I downloaded the modified BIOS in the beginning of the thread. Is it possible that my card had an updated version of the BIOS? So far I've stopped the throttling using the Rivatuner method described, but that also disables stealthmode and down throttling while on battery. Is there some updated BIOS version I should try instead?

To be fair, I hadn't actually tested the original BIOS for throttling, so I may just not have noticed it.

 

I've been following this forum for a while, noticed throttling on my m15x, but only with synthetic test (furmark etc). i don't know if this has already been suggested but has anyone tried turning off their battery while playing games? Or even when running the benchmarks? this should drastically reduce the current draw on the 150W power supply. don't know if this would make a difference tho.

 

its not been tested to my knowledge so its up for someone with the actual issue to see if has some difference.

 

I didn't notice it until I tried playing Demigod, at which point I ran Furmark and found out I had throttling.

 

hmmm i haven't noticed it yet but i may have caught it in one instance in borderlands so i may try the throttle stop process to see if anything improves.

well just ran borderlands all high 1080p with gpuz in background gpu max temp 70c with original thermal paste and oced to 650/1100/1625 drivers 197.45 (courtesy of Jstar)

 

I flashed back to the original BIOS and set my clocks at 680/1100/1650, and got mostly good performance until the very end of a Demigod match, when it throttled at around 72C. Furmark definitely throttles my card (and pushes it to 92C), so it looks like for now Rivatuner is the only true solution. I just hate using it because it means you have to reboot when you want to go on battery, otherwise you'll have an OC'd card on battery and that can cause glitches and drain your battery life very fast. Plus stealth mode doesn't work when you force the clocks, so that's a bummer too.

 

I just use the balanced power profile which clocks down the GPU when not being pushed.. The performance profile keeps it maxed. I guess I don't use Rivatuner because I never had throttling.

Since the new a05 bios, I have managed to get it to throttle, but only when I'm using the Power supply test on OCCT where it just throttles straight away.

 

Well, I've settled on the 1V BIOS in the OP, and have my clocks at 680/1050/1650 through the NVIDIA performance app. I also have the powermizer app and have it set to have powermizer on when on battery, and off on AC, and I haven't noticed any throttling in my games yet. Furmark causes it, but only after running for about 5 minutes.

I think I'll stick with this, since the RivaTuner fix causes more inconveniences than it fixes. It stops stealth mode from working, and keeps the card at full clocks when on battery, which isn't good. I'll just see how this goes, and if I don't get any throttling in real-world scenarios it'll be fine.

 

how did you change the voltage on the gpu to 1 volt just wondering

 

you have to flash your card, the first page of this thread has the steps to do it.

 

So far I've played Crysis Warhead, Demigod, Supreme Commander 2, and Medieval II Total War without any throttling with the settings that I listed in my previous post. It seems like Furmark is the only thing that will cause it to throttle, and like I said, it has to be running for about 5 minutes. So unless there's a game that can put my GPU under a constant 95% + load, I think I'll be ok. Not even Crysis causes that much constant usage, so I'm happy with it for now

And I still love this laptop, it was a fantastic purchase

 

i can definitely agree to that

 

Is there any flash method that fixes the throttling 100%...

Does the fixes mentioned in this thread fix it 100% or does it just minimize it?

This is crazy that such a specialty item is so flawed.

 

It's not SO flawed. In my opinion, it's a minor power bug that doesn't affect most users in most situations.

I've recently upped my Voltage to get higher clocks and it runs great at 700/1100/1750. Now I CAN ACTUALLY GET THE MACHINE TO THROTTLE because it's running way over capacity! so I can test a couple of things..

1: It throttles much more when the screen is full brightness compared to when the screen is minimum. So it's clearly a power problem. Turn off the lights and turn down the screen.

2: I have only encountered real-world throttling with the card set way over spec and still only in one game - GTA IV

3: You can flash the Bios so that the Throttle clock setting is much higher, this will allow the card to dip it's power usage if things go hairy, but not so much that the game becomes unplayable.

4: You can lower the voltage on the GPU while using stock clocks to avoid the throttling situation.

Personally I still think if it throttles under extreme circumstances it's nothing to cry about.. People who are new to the topic should not be put off by this, in my personal opinion it's not such a big problem. If, however, I had have bought the expensive 920XM with the extra 10W power envelope - I'd be experiencing more throttling and yes in that case I would be pretty annoyed!!

My theory, adjusted BIOS settings to throttle at a higher power (say 200W) and a 210W power supply would fix it.

I don't think everyone should get so annoyed and blaming dell for ignoring us etc.. At the same time, I'd love to see more involvement from them on this particular topic, at least to set our minds a bit at ease!

 

Well I cant seem to make it stop in UT3 or WoW at all. It will do it every time a big fight happens in WoW.. or when not in a large fight it seems to just happen every so often. Sometimes it seems random, while other times it seems at regular intervals. Its difficult to tell....

I have been speaking to AW about this and one rep had some test systems where they admitted to recreating this. Well now Im speaking to a rep that says the problem doesn't exist because no one complains about it.
Soooo. If no one calls then they don't "know" about the problem. If only a few call it gets swept under the rug.

I am going to get some contact info from them, a place to report this issue. Would you people please email or call if you experience this issue. I will post it here.

How many will? I rly want this fixd. Thx

 

My guess is it's mostly those with the 920XM and the 260M like yourself. If the 122pages of this thread isn't enough to get their attention, perhaps some basic arithmetic can be useful?

Power supply=150W

CPU=55W
GPU=75W

Together that's 130W.. The mobo, drive, screen and lights will definitely use around 10-20W leaving no room for error. Running 1 150W power supply at 135-140W is not normally recommended anyway, you need some headroom. I think on this basis alone you should be able to call their bluff.

For those with this CPU/GPU combination I would be complaining too since it's pretty much a design flaw I guess.

As far as I know it's not affecting those with lower power draw GPU (240M/5870) and throttles much less often on the 45W CPUs (820/720). Has anyone had throttling on the 32NM CPUs?

 

ignore

/10 char

 

DeeX: Have you run ThrottleStop yet in monitoring mode while gaming? You can check off the Log File option so it can closely monitor your laptop and log the results to a file. When you are finished gaming you will have a complete record. Keep an eye on the time so you can go back after gaming and compare your slow downs to what the CPU is up to as reported by the log file.

Add GPU=1 to the ThrottleStop.ini configuration file so it can monitor your GPU temperature as well.

The more evidence and documentation you have of this problem, the more ammunition you will have in the fight against Dell and some of the outright lies their reps have a habit of telling.

ThrottleStop 2.00 Build 21
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip

If you discover CPU throttling, ThrottleStop can also be used to significantly reduce that and can help smooth out game play.

On another note, Dell limits the power output of some of their adapters to less than the rated DC power output on the label. This makes it difficult to do a fair comparison between an adapter rated at 210 watts or one rated at 150 watts. It's anyone's guess how much power is being allowed to go to your laptop before throttling begins. It can vary depending on the bios version you're using.

 

well for me i dont have throttling mainly due to my cpu only using 28 watts max which i found out with HWMoniter very efficient cpu the 620m

 

I think it's a good idea to set up a contact number for everyone who has a problem to ring and inform Dell about the problem. The may be aware of it but if no one complains they're not going to bother fixing it because they'll just assume it's not a real world problem. They need more details from us, yes there is a 120 page thread but they're not going to actively look for people experiencing the problem. The more people that tell them, the sooner they'll do something about it. I hear they're re working on fixing it with the Ao7 bios.

 

woot new bios lol i probably won't update to that unless i really need it.

 

Well if that was the case wouldn't it throttle still when using the Riva fix? I would think so as the riva is just software, if it was a physical power limitation I would think it could not be fixed with some programs.
I may be wrong. If it is a simple math thing, I would hope something like that would have not made it passed testing as that would be a in your face obvious blunder.

Well I am not going to let up about this to AW, especially since I have 3 emails from a rep there claiming he has a couple test systems with my configuration, and was able to recreate this, but with no fix yet. By this they prove it is not just a isolated situation. However I don't think these things exactly fly off the shelf so it might be a task still to get them to do anything. Plus the normal spiel they give when you speak to a rep that is not familiar with this is; "Is is not flagged RED, This is not a known defect/issue. If there was a common defect we would receive many reports." They told me that, even after a rep of theirs mentioned being able to recreate this. Even after seeing this thread, containing reports from many of the throttling. So it doesn't hurt to try and report...

So I encourage everyone that has experienced this, EVEN if you have fixed it with Riva and are satisfied, please call and report this.
Ya ya the rep will try and trouble shoot etc etc..
So here in addition I will give some email addresses to reps that already know about this.

REMOVED BY MOD - See forum rules concerning posting of private information

Again anyone that has experienced Throttling please email BOTH of these people with info on YOUR situation. This will help as I am going to be raising this issue with as many people as I can under a single case, so if I get mountains of emails pouring in while I am dealing with it, that will just add to my ammo. Please include any logs, screen shots, or specific details (games/programs used) pertaining to this.
Please try to include some real world situations like games.
Use the programs listed on the first page of this thread to monitor.
Common ones that cause it are:

-Left 4 Dead 2
-World of Warcraft (usually in fight sequences/instances, but also random)
-GTA4
-UT3

Please Participate. It won't take long!

Thank you!

 

A reminder of forum rules -

Any questions concerning this policy, PM me.

Thanks.

 

Um that wasn't a persons private email, it was a corporation, the correspondance was not private since the conversation with Dell is recorded for training purposes. I fail to see how posting that contact information was in violation of the rules.

 

New BIOS? Where?

 

posting an individual's email, be it a private address (yahoo, aol, or other isp) or at a company domain is not permitted.

Any further questions relating to the forum rules PM me.

Thanks.

 

someone was speculating on the A07 that's supposedly next and i was saying i wouldn't be updating to it unless there are miraculous changes made to it.

 

Rivatuner trick worked for me. Thanks!
Now waiting for proper fix from Dell.

 

Wow, Thats all I can say is wow.. now that community is counter productive about this.

 

yeah it sucks to have this issue, i tried to bring this back into the light again a few weeks ago, but not too many people were interested, so i just gave up. but honestly i haven't encounter throttling in anything i do other than running furmark.

 

Well sometimes manufacturers cannot fix some issues no matter how they are asked for. I remember HTC phones had a performance issue - petitions were created, people sending support requests, HTCClassAction.org - Because HTC dropped the ball, and it's about time they pick it up! created. Was it fixed? No.

 

the problem is not everybody is affected by throttling, and only time it happens to everyone is when using furmark, but furmark will push your system to its max. almost nothing in everyday use and gaming pushes the system that hard. now with new cards coming i really don't see a fix coming.

btw what are you seeing throttling on foresterlv?

 

I agree.. most of this thread is speculative and concerned. If this thread needs to be pushed then it's practically a non-issue. Otherwise the issue would drive it hard and people would take more action. I guess we're all too busy enjoying our machines

 

My video card was throttling in COD MW2 multiplayer. It was running at 1680x1050 all max 4x AA on external (using vga-out - still waiting for displayport adapter) monitor. For power usage - razer mouse and logitech wireless keyboard were connected through monitor USB hub plus full-size headphones.
When using balanced mode (where CPU is not turbo-overclocked constantly) slow-downs were occurring once per 1-3 minutes for about 5 seconds. But on "High Performance" profile it was happening more frequently. I was using bios A05 (reflashed the day I received laptop).

As I had GPU-Z running on the laptop screen during running the game I am pretty sure first post in this thread is describing very precisely what is happening. From time to time video card was dropping frequencies causing massive FPS drop in the game. Typically COD MW2 runs at 50-60 FPS (limited by v-sync), but with throttling it was dropping to unplayable 20-30FPS.

As of CPU throttling - haven't noticed it yet. But I wasn't running any benchmarks yet except windows one (got 7.4 for CPU).

 

first time i ever heard it happening in wm2, glad the fixed work for you. 7.4 for cpu so i'm guessing you have the 920xm.

 

It happens to me too with MW2... and UT3... and WOW... and Furmark.

 

Mine only throttles when heavily overclocked and with a voltage boost. I imagine with the 920XM if both CPU and GPU are overclocked you are sure to run into this.

Are you overclocking? and have you tried running at stock clocks to see if it makes any difference?

If it doesn't throttle when not everything is running at stock, then you can't blame Dell really.

 

It does throttle when things are stock, in real games. We've known that since last year.

 

hey pras... look like you changed your SSD... OCZ Vertex 2.. is it better than Intel G2 ... I am looking to buy one...

 

Just for the record, the M17x with a QX9300 and when using SLI also has severe clock modulation induced CPU throttling when the power consumption reaches a pre-determined level. CPU and GPU temperatures are fine when this happens. It's simply a bios "feature" that has gone horribly wrong.

The use of CPU clock modulation can also increase DPC latency time by a factor of 10. Dell needs to come up with a plan B because severe throttling of a supposed gaming laptop isn't a very good solution.

Head to the M17x Stutter thread and you can learn some more about this issue that also is a problem for the M15x and many other Dell laptops for that matter.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/410440-m17x-stutter-70.html

 

Ugh. This isn't really acceptable on a $300 laptop, but at least that would be understandable. On a $1200-3000 laptop specifically marketed at gamers and other power users, it's ludicrous.

I have to say it again that it ticks me off Dell makes ONE fully functional gaming laptop. One. The M11 can't use normal Nvidia video drivers, so it's out. The M15 has BIOS problems (and I'm not sure if the USB problems were ever sorted out). Thank goodness that the one serious issue the M17x-R2 had seems to have been fixed with a BIOS update! Between all this stuff and the BSOD problems on half the Asus laptops, they sure make making laptops look hard (which I'm sure it is, but...)

 

I'm sorry that we don't all have your gracious experience dude. Thanks for the information, but please drop the attitude.

 

Yeah it's way better.. One of the new Sandforce controllers..

AnandTech.com - OCZ's Vertex 2 Pro Preview: The Fastest MLC SSD We've Ever Tested

 

Don't be rude.

 

wow your ssd looks awesome, now i'm jealous mr pras.

 

Yeah, that's what I was saying to you mate.. No worries, probably neither of us were being rude