AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

Nope. The system was intended to be used like this...balls to the wall.

The problem with why most people dont notice it is because they never do much more than browse facebook and play the occasional game.

For people that push the system to the limit, its EXTREMELY noticable.

 

So who's going to be the first to confirm the new Bios A05 update doesn't fix throttling because Dell doesn't give a rats arse about us?

 

I know some people have issues in games, but isn't it like 1% or less of situations that people actually encounter throttling?

I'm not sure, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I never had it once yet.

From what I've read on these forums, it's mostly a theoretical issue and doesn't happen that often in real-world. I also read a lot of different stuff, some suggesting that it was a thermal issue and others that it was a power issue.

There's a software hack for it, and anyone who is actually suffering from it (a minority) can fix it. I thought they said clearly that they wouldn't be fixing it because it doesn't really affect most people..

I don't think that they don't give a rat's arse, I just think they're focussed on stuff that they see as a real problem. Having said that - the same problem appears on other machines too http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=452692

I'm not sure what the solution is, perhaps they could implement a BIOS option for those that want to FORCE an increased tolerance. While they are at it, they should add a HT disabler!

 

Well its not an ALIENWARE problem...but they should fix their systems regardless. It has to do with the i7 and the Nvidia cards I am sure.

 

yes... the beloved powermizer is said to be the culprit...anywho yea i just think that instead of wasting their time fixing it now...they gave us the new bios update because of a revision coming up... that won't have the 260M...and the throttling should disappear...wtv who cares like u said... unless ur pushing your system to insane levels... it won't happen anyways

 

I gave it a shot, could be my settings at fault but the throttling was much worse than before. Instead of fluctuating up and down it went down and stayed there except for the occasional blip. It could be that in RivaTuner all I did was un-tick the box for Enable Driver Level Overclocking and I disabled Force Constant Performance Level but I didn't revert any other settings so I don't know what effect that would have had on my test.

 

ouch, that looks real bad. yeah you have to force constant clock or otherwise it will still throttle.

 

That looks like a faulty machine to me. I can't even get mine to throttle. Yours looks like it won't even get to full speed for more than 1 second.

 

Nope. No other system does that. It's an issue with them in that they're in the system, and Dell messed up something with the BIOS, but it's not really a CPU or GPU problem.

No, it's pretty common in real games, and will get worse.

Both were investigated. It's neither. We've known since last year it's something Dell could fix in their BIOS, but refuses to.

 

Hmm okay.. Thanks for the info.. Just for the record, I can't get my machine to throttle no matter how hard I tried (so far).. 99% GPU and all 8 cores maxed out doesn't do it. Maybe it's cos the UK is so cold or something haha.

 

1. Its a Bios problem, specific with the 260M, since there's no throttling with the 240M

2. I personally never had any throttling in real-time applications or games... only in synthetic benchmark testing...but yes i heard it does throttle in some games..

3.Dell sucks. BIG time.

 

well it could also be that the power supply cant supply enough power for both the 820 and 260 so its a combination problem because what im seeing anyone with a 720qm doesn't have it. Yet people with the 820 and 920 are having these issues from what i keep seeing

 

That's a very rational idea, but that's not what's going on. People went through all that last year, and it was 100% confirmed that it's a BIOS issue. Dell first acknowledged it, then claimed it was "working as intended" and disappeared around the turn of the year.

 

true its just as you said im rationalizing what i keep seeing happen to people who have the throttling issue and yes but yet the review of the m15x with 720qm hit 145 watts max now im wondering if the 820 would pull more watts and force the throttling due to not enough power from the ps. Im just sayin not concrete fact and yes dell really should have not had this issue if they properly burned in the system and tested games customers would actually try.

cause the max a m15x ps can handle is 150 watts

here is where i saw this http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Alienware-M15x-Gaming-Notebook.22280.0.html

 

Yeah, I don't know how stuff like this or the Asus G51j/jx BSOD manage to make it into production. I mean IMO it's terrible if ANY computer does something like that, but in particular one sold as a high end/gaming system you'd think they're really push the hardware to make sure nothing weird happens when it's running at full blast

Maybe someone's already posted about this, but I wonder if the dual core versions have this same problem? Just thought of that... The only other problem with this system is the USB issues, that AFAIK were never corrected, but again I wonder if the dual core versions are different...

I like quad, but I'd go for a dual i7 if it worked.

 

well im gonna be finding this out wont i LOL

also its newer proc so well see as i think im first in the forums to buy the 620m and 260m together so ima genuine pig lol

 

i don't think your system will throttle .. lets hope im right

 

well 10 watt difference between the 720 and 620 so i believe it wont

appreciate the rep thanks

 

I agree with you.

 

Would it be crazy to say that since I upgraded my bios to A05 I havent had a single throttle?

Before I had A05 I would run 3dmark and get 7000 without Rivatuner on and Throttlestop...

If I turned them both on I would get a 11500...

Now I just ran 3dmark with them both off and played Crysis/Bad company 2 last night for a few hours and ZERO slowdown...

Hmmm....

I'm not ready to jump to conclusions yet.

 

what are your specs?

 

i7 720
GTX 260
250gb Sata HDD
4gb 1033

 

the A05 seems to solve almost all issues at present with sound, temps, and throttling to a degree but people with the 820 and 920 seem to still have the issue. i believe the issues comes from the power supply not giving enough juice to the system. m15x power supply is 150 watts which is good for 720 proc and below in what you choose from dell. The power draw can reach much higher than 150 watts with higher demand proc's that are paired the gtx 260m

720qm 45 watts
820qm 45 watts draws more power than the 720 due to higher clocks
920qm 55 watts

gtx 260m 75 watts

 

Throttling in m15x is only due to the downclocking fucntions of the BIOS in m15x.. it does not occur because of the power supply.. it has been tested by many users (JOKER and UNCLEWEBB). They used m17x power supply which was rated for 240W to test it. But the throttling issue still existed. It was BIOS which was throttling the cpu and the gpu. Rivatuner and Throttlestop just revert the effect. You won't notice any throttling whilst playing games because not all games stress the gpu and cpu enough for throttling to kick in....

A05 doesn't fix the throttling issue...

I was playing Prototype and noticed throttling whilst playing. If i just play the game wihtout fraps I can't notice the throttling because it just occurs for 5-10 seconds randomly. But used GPU-z and throttlestop(disabled) to log the clocks and chip modulation for me...

Here is what I got....




Note: when chip modulation throttling kicks in . Gpu downclocks as well..(Same time)

I have played BFBC2, Crysis, NFS shift and none of these games throttle my m15x.. and even with prototype the throttling is barely noticeble..

 

ah so its still noticable but only in certain cpu intensive and not properly optimized games designed for pc

 

Yes.. but it also throttles even with 2 cores maxed out...

It is related to power supply wattage in a way.. that gamers who have 920xm proc get to the throttling line(max wattage where bios throttling kicks in) very quickly.. hence experience more throttling.. even though m15x's power supply can handle it...

Power supply these days are very efficient and can give more power than they are rated for... so it can handle the wattage required by the system... but dell wants to be on the safe side.. hence we end up with throttling....

Since you will have a 620.. you will never come near that wattage for the throttling to occur... Atleeast that is what i hope...

 

well that's why i chose it plus to maybe have a little bit longer battery life im not big on mutli tasking too much so i didn't see why i needed a quad core.

 

Wierd BC2 doesnt throttle at all for me, I run in 1600x900 and my fps is very solid. What settings are you running the game at?

 

Well, this is only partially a test. None of the components internally run at 19 Volts. Thus there is a lot going on inside the computer (e.g. DC - DC convertion ). Each of these components has a maximum power rating, on how much it can provide, etc. There may still be a power issue inside which causes the nvidia card to throttle to prevent some components possibly frying. There might even be a current/voltage sensor somewhere which the bios checks and then throttles downs.

I find it dodgy that this issue has not been resolved by 2 bios updates and it might actually be something to make the hardware live longer

 

anyone can explain the following keys:
"MaxClockLimit" set it to 300 and "DisableClockTest" to 1

also this key (not included in guide):
disablememclkresetprotection

 

bcbf2 doesn't throttle for me too... its just prototype...

If it was a power issue.. Even when running throttlestop and rivatuner.. the throttling shouldn't stop... But it does.. Confirming the fact that the bios is the culprit not the power supply..

If it was the power supply, even when using these softwares the throttling shouldn't stop.. Throttling would be a consequence of less wattage from the power supply no matter what applications you use..

Throttling in Dell studio xps 16 is due to the power issue.. Just using throttlestop doesn't solve the issue. You need to get a higher rated power adapter for the laptop. Dell studio xps 16 comes with 90w but it requires 120w.

 

im not talking about the power supply here. There might be internal components limiting the power. Just because you add a new powersupply rated 200W doesnt mean the computer is able to draw that much power.

 

Sorry man.. just missed your point.. bit busy here..

Now, if there is an internal component limiting the power then throttlestop and rivatuner wouldn't fix the issue isn't it. Because the issue would be a hardware one and cannot be solved just with software fixes. It would be a hardware limitation.

Just my thoughts...

 

^^^^ agreed.

 

it might just be a preventative measure. E.g. Once the current flowing through the circuit reaches a given threshold, the bios will clock the gpu down. This is something we have done in a project to extend the life of the components on the PCB. This is something which might be happening here as well.

If it was just as simple as "code for 260M" is broken, then I would think it would have been fixed by now especially since John B. has said that the issue was known but not feasible to fix

 

I've updated to the new BIOS. Now I haven't checked for throttling in a while so there could of been a number of changes that affected my most recent test. But now my throttling is almost constant. Before the throttling would last for around 10 seconds and go back to stock clocks for about 20-30 seconds, in a cyclical fashion. Now its the opposite, throttling lasts for about 20-30 seconds, and back up to stock clocks for about 5 seconds. If it wasn't for the fix, I'd basically have a laptop that performs at half the advertised specs. Now I know my situation is more severe than most, but people need to be more vocal about this issue. I think the problem is that most people don't opt for the 920. If the 920 was standard, Dell would have a much bigger problem on their hands. I really hope the 5870 upgrade coming, fixes this issue.

 

Yep, same here.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=6092704#post6092704

 

Wow yours is as bad as mine without the 920.

What Nvidia drivers are you running? I just upgraded to the lastest 197.16 drivers. I wonder what effect, if any, that had on it.

 

I couldn't get audio over Displayport to work with the 197.16 drivers so I'm using 186.81.

 

Don't you remember the throttling issues in M6400... took ages to get that issue resolved, the issue was resolved by a simple bios update...

They might be doing it for an extra blanket of protection and as you said Dell would be looking at increasing the life expectancy of the laptop. .. So they can make more profits by selling 3-4 years warranty services and don't have to replace too many faulty parts because they have a BIOS which doesn't allow the laptop to use its full potential if needed. (Dell: Don't allow the users to push the laptop... it might damage the components and we might have to replace it AND MORE COSTTT!!!!!! NOOOOO)...

 

Try changing your power management mode settings in your nvidia control panel to performance rather than adaptive, looking at the pictures posted it looks more like a powermizer issue and yes with 197.xx drivers there a lot of powermizer kicking in but you get better performance in many games when the card is running on 3d clocks.

Keep me posted..

You can try that as well..smeggit..

are you using 186.47 or 186.81?
Hope that helps..

 

Unless I'm remembering wrong, he either disappeared without saying anything, or just said they wouldn't fix it, not that it isn't feasible to fix. (For sure some Dell reps have said they wouldn't fix it, but can't remember if it was him or not.) In fact he seemed pretty optimistic at first, but then apparently it came down that they were going to refuse to fix it.

 

Same happen to me, even worse than A03 bios. And I use 720QM, 195.62 and forced Performance mode in nvidia control panel

 

Look at this post:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5628493#post5628493

This to me means, that its not feasible to fix the issue. I havent seen any update from John on this, so I assume they kept it that way

 

Ah, thanks. Yeah...then they disappeared. Well...their lose. I can't be the only one who didn't buy it because of that (and the USB flaw). Would have ordered it last December :-/

 

I've got 186.81 drivers. I had a look but under the Global Settings tab I'm missing the "Power Management Mode" option so I guess it's not included in this version.

 

Go in Control Panel/NVIDIA Control Panel and you'll see what everyone's talking about.

Every version drivers have it... I've attached a jpeg with what you wanna change circled in red hope it helps

 

Not sure why, but this doesn't show in my Control Panel for Nvidia (in Advanced mode, driver version 86.81), any idea on common things that could cause this?

 

It is not a supported feature with the 186.xx series drivers.

 

so the easy fix would be... change drivers? The new 197.16 drivers work great for me.. and also allow me to OC my 260m higher than previous drivers... might want to give 'em a try