AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

Power management, yes (albeit completely irrational, yes it is power management, this has been known) you tried telling us it is Powermizer, which has a very narrow application which has nothing to do with downclocking a GPU when it it lacks the necessary power. Powermizer downclocks a GPU when 3D/Gaming speeds and the power to produce those speeds is not needed, i.e when at idle and browsing the web. Powermizer does /not/ downclock the GPU when it is under stress.

 

m15x, 920xm 260m gtx 4g1333
Problem sloved! Joker, thank you so much!
Again, confirmed! Problem sloved!

 

Would appreciate it if you could share the 2 configs with us who only know enough to be dangerous, thanks.

Using the 150w brick I ran the test for 30 minutes with RivaTuner and didn't crash GPU temp maxed at 70c.



I also did another Vantage run and got good scores with the stable system:

Original Settings:
CPU = 11665
GPU = 4941

Stable with RivaTuner:
CPU = 12014
GPU = 4874

 

I tried 3dmark vantage too, these are my scores
First time, normal state, turbo mode off

Second time, turbo off, overclocked GPU to 650/1075/1475

Third time, turbo off, overclocked GPU to 675/1100/1500

Fourth time, turbo on, overclocked GPU to 675/1100/1600

 

I should be asleep but I couldn't help testing further. Everyone needs to keep in mind that the 3D clocks you are force setting in RivaTuner are the 2nd tier 3D clocks. What i mean by that is that there are 4 clock settings with the nVidia card, they are as follows:

1. Extra: default 550/950/1350 @1v
2. 3D: 383/301 @ 0.9v
3. Throttled @0.9v
4. 2D @0.85v

The clock we are altering with RivaTuner is #2 that operates at 0.9v. What this means is that you are essentially running at undervolted clocks even when at 550/950/1350 so your system should theoretically run cooler but it will also severely limit overclocks. Case in point, I was maxing out at 580 core before it would crash.

Obligatory Disclaimer: I DO NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD YOU END UP BRICKING YOUR SYSTEM BY DOING WHAT I OUTLINE BELOW!! FURTHERMORE, I DON'T RECOMMEND EVEN ATTEMPTING IT!

Now what I did (and don't recommend) is went ahead and flashed my bios to alter the 3D clock (#2) to 1v. With this change and armed with Rivatuner, I'm pushing 640/950/1600 right now and it's rock solid with furmark + p95 running. I'm pretty sure I can reach at least 680 core but why bother? I would recommend everyone keep their default bios settings and don't flash their cards. I just put this information out there for the enthusiasts that are familiar with flashing a vbios and who may choose to get some extra performance out of their system.

So in conclusion: The throttling problem has been temporarily fixed using a Rivatuner workaround. Dell needs to issue a true bios fix so that we do not have to resort to hacks in order to get full use of our gaming systems.

 

I tried NiBiTorV5.2, it doesn't support 260m, is there another way to edit 260m bios?

 

"So in conclusion: The throttling problem has been temporarily fixed using a Rivatuner workaround. Dell needs to issue a true bios fix so that we do not have to resort to hacks in order to get full use of our gaming systems."

Joker,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the work you have done on your own time to get this squared away. In the end the M15x did not work out for me as I don't think a workaround is something that should have be done on a brand new system. Needless to say, I think the M15x is a nice machine, but Dell's complete and total "look the other way" attitude regarding this issue is leaving a bad taste in my mouth regarding any kind of fix in the future.

Keep up the good fight Joker. It's refreshing to see someone fight back when someone (ie Dell) is trying to force something down our throat.

All in my opinions of course....

-D

 

Oh man, I can't wait if they issue a BIOS update that fixes this

Sounds like all PM55 chipset based computers also need a BIOS update to fix the USB issue (and Asus has issued ones for their systems?)

 

Avengement is reporting in the main thread that BIOS A02 fixes the USB issues! I'm hopping to hear more confirmation, but that just leaves the throttling. Yay Dell for fixing the USB problem! (And the USB problem isn't Dell specific, it's Intel.)

 

Thanks a lot Joker for all your work. Just out of curiosity, can you tell me which version of drivers/RivaTuner do you use?

For some reason, RivaTuner detects that the default clock speeds on my 260m are 383/767/301. I can change the shader clock and memory clock, but the core clock keeps reseting to 383 (or anything below it). I installed the 186.82 drivers and followed the steps you provided

 

Good work baby boy....

For those looking to save a few jingles while ordering a M17X adapter: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160388147564&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

For completeness sake:

Throttling while playing Borderlands

It doesnt happen very often but it does seem to happen!

 

So if I flash my 280m bios to have 1v @ 3d (2) clock .. It will never throttle again, or do I also need to install rivatuner?

 

Great work Joker! Your da man for bringing this issue up and taking it to the masses. Awesome job on finding a fix. Now we just have to play the waiting game untill Dell issues a bios update.

 

You do not need 186.82, that was just an example I gave. In fact, if you run the newest RivaTuner (2.24) which you can grab from guru3d.com, you won't need to do the driver emulation step at all. Just follow the instructions exactly how I talk about in the first post and you should be fine. The drivers I'm using are the 195.62 WHQL found on nVidia's website.

I wouldn't recommend an M17x adapter at this time. So far the 150W seems to be doing the job for everyone.

If the flashing instructions are at all vague to you, I really do not recommend attempting a flash. If done wrong, it will brick your video card and this is not covered under warranty. So please be careful and again, don't do it if you are not familiar with the process.

 

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you and I completely understand. It shouldn't require a workaround by the consumer just to operate without throttling. I still hope the Dell engineers continue to search for a permanent fix for us.

 

Sorry Joker, I confused the clocks :x

Also, right now the M15X adapter seems to be working fine as well. Also, it fixed the throttling for me too

 

Someone give this guy a medal?

On a slight off-topic note - I am able to purchase an Alienware Aurora desktop - with dual 5870, i7 920, 6gb 1333h RAM, 500gb hard drive - for the same price (In the UK) as an M15x, with 720QM, 260GTX, 4GB ram and some bits. Would it be stupid to not take the former offer, especially since I guess it would be rare for me to require mobility (like maybe once or twice a year?)

 

If mobility is not ur concern go with the desktop..

Back to the topic

I posted this on the owners lounge as well... but its perfect here... I had a chat with the alienware Europe technical department and it seems they are aware of it and are working on a fix. they even offered me a free M17x PSU so that i could try it out and see if it fixes the throttling. He also said they work independent from the American Division and plan to launch a dedicated Alienware forum IF DELL GRANTS THE PERMISSION.

 

So to those people who applied the fix, any problems so far? I am a bit hesitant to go through with it until I have a better idea what, if any, help Dell might still be planning.

 

The fix is only on a driver level, so its not permanent. You can also reverse easily. So far the system is stable with no problems at all. I can finally play borderlands without throttling

 

Works great for me and I've had the system on modified settings for a few days now and have run some intense benchmarks on the system to test for stability.

 

Just to let you guys know do not waste your money on the M17 powersupply i got one today and that doesnt stop the throttling the rivatuner fix is the only working fix for now. Here is my test without the rivatuner fix and the m17's powersupply.

 

Yeah the M17x adapter alone doesn't solve anything. This is a bios limitation anyway so the only solution right now is the Rivatuner. The most the M17x adapter could do is handle the additional strain better.

 

Throttling instructions updated! With the instructions I've posted, it will allow most of you to push the CPU and GPU to 100% or very close without any bios throttling! I know the method is a bit tedious but this is something that has to be done because Dell thus far has remained quiet and is not issuing a bios update. Remember, the research behind solving this throttling issue is ongoing and as such, the instructions on the first page are subject to revision.

 

So is this what needs to be done to overcome throttling for now?

 

Yes.
10char

 

Including step one?

I have RivaTuner 2.24 installed at the mo. I think that's the latest?

EDIT: Thanks for your persistence on this matter by the way, Joker - I'm sure everyone who owns an M15x will be thanking you one day!

 

You don't need to do step 1 if you have version 2.24.

 

Once again - thank you!

 

Your welcome. I updated the first post to make it easier for people to implement the fix.

 

Does the Alienware suffer the insufficient power supply issue that the SXPS 1645 has? The thing that lets it perform 100% on battery but not plugged in due to not enough wattage? Thx

 

No it doesn't, the 150W adapter supplies enough power. The throttling that plagues the M15x is purely a bios based one.

 

thanks dude! works a treat
what do you think the chances of us being able to overclock the 920xm are?

 

pretty good if you use the E-leet tuning utility

 

I just recieved my M15x from dell with i7 820 and 4g of 1333mhz ddr3 ram, and gtx260m, 500/7200rpm HD, 1920x1080 res. I wanted to overclock it with riva tuner 2.24 but everytime i open riva tuner it says my clocks are at 383/767/301.... This doesnt ever shoot back up to stock clocks. Just sits like that all the time. How do I overclock if Rivatuner doesnt show me anything different?
Oh and btw... Gpu-z also shows that its being downclocked... Keep in mind that this is NOT while playing games.... Any help would be appreciated... I do love this laptop though

 

Press the stealth mode button (it's the one that looks like an odometer on the panel) and that should resolve it.

 

Hi Joker Thanks A lot for this.I was also having same problem like earlier one with settings all showing in 383/767/1301 like that.I checked the option in RivaTuner to apply the overclocked settings at windows startup and then it constantly shows correct clocks after starting my system.Stealth button did not solve the problem.Is this ok to do or it should show correct clock settings without checking that option? Also i had to uncheck the Link clocks checkbox near shader clocks option. Only then it let me change the shader clocks.Please let us know whether it is correct to do.

I set 551/1349/952 in my settings.I could not configure it to exactly 550/1350/950 as the progressbar is impossible to select for me the exact values.Will it in any way affect the stability of my system in long run?

Thanks

 

Hey Joker thanks for the quick reply, but unfortianately turning stealth mode on and off didnt help. I am so puzzled.... I reinstalled it a few times and same deal. If riva tuner is opened while gpuz is opened, gpuz shows the low clocks. But while playing crysis gpuz goes back to normal clocks and everything runs great! But rivatuner continues to show the low clocks.
I guess the M15x is good enough without overclocking, but would be nice to overclock. If you have anymore advice I would be glad to try it.
Thank you.

 

This is caused by NVIDIA's PowerMizer technology. This is normal. This is fine. The downclocking is automatic depending on load and current application - when the GPU needs to work, clocks will automatically ramp up to Max. The low clocks when the GPU is not being taxed will help save energy as well as keep the GPU core cooler. More info on PowerMizer is here. Its your friend.

 

An important update to the throttling fix has been added. With the CPU throttling fix in place, the system will now run at 100% without any performance penalty. The first post on this thread will be updated each time further progress is made in refining the throttling fix so I'd recommend people bookmark this thread and check it on a regular basis.

 

CPU throttling fix seems little complicated Joker in the present way it is.Hopefully u and unclewebb can get some software fix like throttle stop which might be easy to use for normal people who are not too advanced.Thanks for all the hard work you are doing.I am sure Dell is never going to fix this.Yours might be the only solution we have

 

It's slightly tedious to get it setup but give it a shot. Once you get it going it's as simple as clicking on a single file to enable it and another file to disable. I put the enable.bat file in my startup folder so that portion is now automated and I don't have to worry about the CPU throttling during heavy use. I usually keep my laptop on all day but when I need to restart, I simply run the disable.bat file, go into sleep mode, then log off and restart. The latter sounds like a PITA but it takes at most 1 minute to do. As for a fix from Dell, don't ever count on one. I'm convinced they programmed these limits into the bios on purpose for thermal management and I think they were being too aggressive. I bet the M17x refresh with the i7 will also run into throttling when it is released. This seems to be standard fare for Dell these days and it is a terrible way to keep temperatures down.

 

I'm not a guru on this stuff but I was randomly seeing a steady 60fps drop to 30fps or less during Left4Dead 2. So I decided to run GPU-Z to see what was going on. This is what I saw.



I kept the default "recommended settings" in the game. Has anyone been playing this on the M15x and noticed this yet? Because this is as real world as it gets. My system is clearly, consistently downclocking. Temps are raised but they do not seem dangerous(forgive my ignorance). Also in CPU-Z, all 8 threads are over 50 degrees Celcius. At one point it showed them in the mid 60's and some reached 70. The drop in memory and GPU load is when I tabbed out of the game to check what GPU-z had recorded

Were you ever able to run any tests with this game? Also, the only default game setting that I changed was going from the 1600x900 to 1920x1080

 

Thanks for posting. Yet more evidence this is a real world problem.

 

Irb Digital,

What level were you playing and what settings did the system set it at with recommended? Try applying the fixes noted for the GPU portion (you may not need the CPU fix since L4D2 doesnt push the CPU more than 50% based on my tests) and see what GPU-z shows you then.

 

Settings were
Widescreen 16:9
1920x1080
Anti-aliasing mode - 4x MSAA
Filtering Mode Anisotropic 8x
Wait for Vert sync - Enabled (Triple Buffered)
Multicore Rendering - Enabled
Shader Detail - Very High
Effect Detail - High
Model Texture Detail - High
Paged Pool Memory Available - High

 

Re-run the test with vsync turned off and keep GPU-z active with logging turned on. Don't alt-tab to check on it because that is powermizer doing it's job throttling down the GPU. Just play like you normally do and when you're done, post the log here. Also I think we're on the verge of having a single click software solution for the CPU throttling very soon!

 

This test was done with Vsync off. I started GPU-z. Then I started L4D2 from Steam menus. Once the game starts I chose a Single Player (offline match with computer teammates). Campaign Dead Center, Chapter 1: Hotel. I stayed in game for the entire log, until I terminated the game and then let GPU-Z log the next moments to show that the system immediately stops throttling. I noticed that the framerate drop is cyclical, and the low FPS is about 13 seconds long and the higher fps is about 10 seconds long. I can be standing still with no enemies on the screen and this still happens in game no matter the scenery on the level or the amount of zombies on screen. It seems to be consistent 30 fps drop. Whether its an area where I'm pulling 75fps (drops to 35fps when throttled), or a more intensive area on the level, where it drops to about 50fps (drops to 20fps when throttled). I'll try to attempt your fix, but I'm leary about my skills, especially if something goes south

Edit: forgot to attach the log
Edit: Just did the GPU fix. FPS stayed much more consistent. 60-70fps was the norm. I did see some drop down to the 40's but not for long, and they were in line with what was happening in the game, (lots of zombies, high detail areas, etc...). I checked GPU-Z and the clocks never changed. They stayed the same thoughout the whole process. The GPU load stayed around 98%, so this game takes its toll on the GPU. Now that you've taken me this far, I might need to dabble in overclocking

 

Irb, that log definitely shows throttling but I don't think it's normal because it doesn't happen on my machine. I'll run the same level and settings as you to confirm. What driver version are you running? I'm using the latest 195.62. They have an option in the control panel that will allow you to change the power management from "adaptive" to "maximum performance". If you have 195.62, I'd suggest setting it to maximum:



If that still does not work, then try my GPU throttling fix (it's very easy to follow) and see if it still happens.